Author Topic: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?  (Read 7877 times)

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Offline schtumpig

  • Posts: 33
Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« on: March 03, 2016, 11:51 PM »
Hi,

I'm ready to pull the trigger on an Incra LS fence for my new homebuilt router table and I am debating between Metric and Imperial. ALL my shop tools are Festool so they are metric already. I own 1 (yup  [embarassed]) router bit so I can buy metric bits as a build my shop. But I live in the USA so imperial is the 'Standard'.

If you have an Incra LS positioner and have used metric or imperial, what have been the issues you have had. Lack of templates, plans, bits? All advice is welcome!

Thanks! [smile]
My tools in the order I bought them: MFT/3;  OF-1400;  CT-26E,  Kapex KS-120EB;  MFT/3-Kapex;  RO-90DX;  Woodpeckers 660mm Precision Square;  RO-150 FEQ;  TS-55REQ;  118" FS3000;  MFT/3 Basic;  Fein FMM 350Q Systainer Edition;  CT-22 with Boom Arm;   MFT/3 + CIRT (Cast Iron Router Table) + Precision Plate + Incra Lift/Fence w/ Porter-Cable 75182 = Homebuilt CMS

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Online Bohdan

  • Posts: 889
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2016, 12:16 AM »
Give your brain a rest and go metric!

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2016, 12:59 AM »
To me this is a "no brainer" as I see people staying imperial for a number of reasons .. they are typically ..

1. Current investment in imperial tools
2. Current understanding of imperial systems and learning transition difficulties
3. Material, client or other dependencies on imperial measurement compatibility

You don't seem to be encumbered by any of these .. so GO METRIC [wink]

Offline Max Fracas

  • Posts: 91
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2016, 01:23 AM »
I went all metric when I bought my TS75.  It didn't take long to realize it was the way to go for everything, so when I bought the LS for my tablesaw I got the metric version.  Now the only time I use imperial is when I talk about measurements to those who only understand feet and inches.  It was a very easy transition to move the workshop from imperial to millimeters and I'm very glad I did.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2037
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2016, 07:27 AM »
Go metric, all the Woodpeckers squares and rules I've been buying have been metric.  Makes every measurable thing a breeze.  Get yourself a metric tape  Hultafors (EBay...Big red Box) or one of the many versions that Fastcap makes.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 07:29 AM by rst »

Offline JD2720

  • Posts: 1029
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2016, 07:39 AM »
If you like metric & it works for you, get the metric one.

I do things in my shop because I want to do them that way & they work for me. I do not do things, because others think I should do them that way.

Offline Tayler_mann

  • Posts: 415
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2016, 08:00 AM »
As another USA residents advice; go metric. I switched about one year ago and haven't looked back. Unfortunately a lot of times customers bring me measurements of what they want in imperial and I convert it but other than that things have gotten soooooooooooooo much more easy since the switch.

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2016, 01:54 PM »
Go Metric  [big grin] Much easer to work with. No fractions!!
Greg Powers
Size:XL

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1983
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2016, 02:20 PM »

Go Metric  [big grin] Much easer to work with. No fractions!!

We have fractions. Between 1 and 2 mm you have 1.5.

Wink, wink.

I personally have both lead screws and kits. I still have some very nice bits that need the imperial version of my dovetail set, but mainly use the metric setup on my LS 25.

You will love it either way mate! 

Cheers. Bryan.
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline AndyUK

  • Posts: 58
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2016, 03:14 PM »
Give your brain a rest and go metric!

^
This  [smile]
[MFT-3] [TS55 REBQ-Plus] [OF1010] [RTS 400 EQ-Plus] [CTL Midi]

Offline schtumpig

  • Posts: 33
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2016, 03:14 PM »
Thanks for all the advice!  [big grin] Still thinking about, I'm giving myself till Monday.


Go Metric  [big grin] Much easer to work with. No fractions!!

I personally have both lead screws and kits. I still have some very nice bits that need the imperial version of my dovetail set, but mainly use the metric setup on my LS 25.

You will love it either way mate! 

Cheers. Bryan.

Thanks Bryan! I like to hear that you mainly use metric. I DON'T like that the same Whiteside Incra bit set costs $25 more than the imperial set. Add that to the Incra extra cost for the metric LS Positioner and METRIC = MORE MONEY. At least here in the good old USA. Ultimately my biggest concern is that having the Metric LS Incra is going to mean that I am limiting my options. Either:
1- The number and types of joints I can make (It looks like Metric is an after thought for Incra)
2- The availability/cost of router bits and accessories (Metic is harder to find here in the USA and seems to carry a surcharge)
3- The utility of the router table it's self. (Having problems sourcing local wood/plywood in the correct dimensions)

If this was just the old Metric vs. Imperial debate it would be a "no Brainer" METRIC. But things get messy when you start looking a practicality here in the USA. So I am still thinking about it. Again anyone using the Metric Incra LS 17 (430mm) or LS 25 (635mm) please let me know your experiences. Also if you have a preference for the longer LS 25. I have the Precision Dogs LS plate (LOVE IT!  [big grin]) and I am leaning toward the shorter LS 17 since you can just move the whole positioner to a different set of holes on the MFT.

Again thanks for all the suggestions I carefully read each one and I appreciate all the help!

Alex
My tools in the order I bought them: MFT/3;  OF-1400;  CT-26E,  Kapex KS-120EB;  MFT/3-Kapex;  RO-90DX;  Woodpeckers 660mm Precision Square;  RO-150 FEQ;  TS-55REQ;  118" FS3000;  MFT/3 Basic;  Fein FMM 350Q Systainer Edition;  CT-22 with Boom Arm;   MFT/3 + CIRT (Cast Iron Router Table) + Precision Plate + Incra Lift/Fence w/ Porter-Cable 75182 = Homebuilt CMS

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1983
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2016, 03:35 PM »
Anytime Alex. What part of our great state are you in? 

Personally I wanted the 25 for the ability to do dovetails and cuts pretty far away from the fence. I like being able to move it all around and if I need to do a rabbet 600+mm away, it can handle it. I thought about saving a few bucks with the 17, but glad I didn't.

The other day I was notching the backs of some drawers and it allowed me to do both sides of the drawer without farting around at all to do so. I know the width on my TS 75 blade and just changed it from my guide in the LS. It works so quick that I don't think about it much anymore!

Here is a pic of that operation and a pic of the LS bracket I built. Definitely make one so you can keep the setup dialed in when it is off your MFT setup.





Cheers. Bryan.
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline schtumpig

  • Posts: 33
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2016, 07:14 PM »
That looks awesome Bryan!

I live smack dab in the middle in Columbus. Worthington to be exact.

I am back an forth between the 25 and the 17 so seeing your set-up helps a lot. I was considering the 25 because it would give me the flexibility to move it to a SawStop table saw later if I buy one. My set up for now is just a dedicated router table no TS-55 mounted in it.

As far as the Metric Incra you have had no problems using the metric setup? You haven't felt like there are less joint templates or hard to find the right bits? If I was using it as a fence for my table saw I could see where metric would be super useful to compliment the TS-55 and Kapex.
Any other shortcomings of going with the Metric Incra LS?

This is my setup as of tonight. I'm using a Excalibur Cast iron top, Incra lift, Porter-Cable 75182, Precision Dogs Plate. Now all I need is the Incra LS  [smile]

Thanks for sharing your setup.


My tools in the order I bought them: MFT/3;  OF-1400;  CT-26E,  Kapex KS-120EB;  MFT/3-Kapex;  RO-90DX;  Woodpeckers 660mm Precision Square;  RO-150 FEQ;  TS-55REQ;  118" FS3000;  MFT/3 Basic;  Fein FMM 350Q Systainer Edition;  CT-22 with Boom Arm;   MFT/3 + CIRT (Cast Iron Router Table) + Precision Plate + Incra Lift/Fence w/ Porter-Cable 75182 = Homebuilt CMS

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1328
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2016, 07:56 PM »
@schtumpig - What did you use to fill the gap between the router table and MFT/3?  Looks great!

Offline schtumpig

  • Posts: 33
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2016, 08:41 PM »
@schtumpig - What did you use to fill the gap between the router table and MFT/3?  Looks great!

Thanks... Here is what I used:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-in-x-36-in-Aluminum-Angle-Bar-with-1-16-in-Thick-801387/204273987

Cut down to match the width of the cast iron table. I used flat counter sunk machine screws using the existing holes in the cast iron table so they would not interfere with the extrusion on the MFT:
My tools in the order I bought them: MFT/3;  OF-1400;  CT-26E,  Kapex KS-120EB;  MFT/3-Kapex;  RO-90DX;  Woodpeckers 660mm Precision Square;  RO-150 FEQ;  TS-55REQ;  118" FS3000;  MFT/3 Basic;  Fein FMM 350Q Systainer Edition;  CT-22 with Boom Arm;   MFT/3 + CIRT (Cast Iron Router Table) + Precision Plate + Incra Lift/Fence w/ Porter-Cable 75182 = Homebuilt CMS

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1328
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2016, 09:06 PM »
Great solution.  Simple and cheap, the best kind.   [smile]

Offline schtumpig

  • Posts: 33
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2016, 09:25 PM »
Great solution.  Simple and cheap, the best kind.   [smile]

Thanks... But it was your design so I should be saying that to you. Thanks for sharing it!   [embarassed]

@zxcv Did you go with Metric or Imperial out of curiosity?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 09:30 PM by schtumpig »
My tools in the order I bought them: MFT/3;  OF-1400;  CT-26E,  Kapex KS-120EB;  MFT/3-Kapex;  RO-90DX;  Woodpeckers 660mm Precision Square;  RO-150 FEQ;  TS-55REQ;  118" FS3000;  MFT/3 Basic;  Fein FMM 350Q Systainer Edition;  CT-22 with Boom Arm;   MFT/3 + CIRT (Cast Iron Router Table) + Precision Plate + Incra Lift/Fence w/ Porter-Cable 75182 = Homebuilt CMS

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1328
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2016, 09:48 PM »
Great solution.  Simple and cheap, the best kind.   [smile]

Thanks... But it was your design so I should be saying that to you. Thanks for sharing it!   [embarassed]

@zxcv Did you go with Metric or Imperial out of curiosity?

I originally ordered imperial, but later decided to convert it to metric.  I am trying to go all metric now.   
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 10:16 PM by zxcv »

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2016, 05:01 AM »
That looks awesome Bryan!

I live smack dab in the middle in Columbus. Worthington to be exact.

I am back an forth between the 25 and the 17 so seeing your set-up helps a lot. I was considering the 25 because it would give me the flexibility to move it to a SawStop table saw later if I buy one. My set up for now is just a dedicated router table no TS-55 mounted in it.

As far as the Metric Incra you have had no problems using the metric setup? You haven't felt like there are less joint templates or hard to find the right bits? If I was using it as a fence for my table saw I could see where metric would be super useful to compliment the TS-55 and Kapex.
Any other shortcomings of going with the Metric Incra LS?

This is my setup as of tonight. I'm using a Excalibur Cast iron top, Incra lift, Porter-Cable 75182, Precision Dogs Plate. Now all I need is the Incra LS  [smile]

Thanks for sharing your setup.




Did that cast iron top come from the UK - it is exactly the same casting as the UJK one bought from Axminster?

Peter

Offline mavrick1903

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Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2016, 09:05 AM »
Those of you that have gone metric, are you running a metric table saw blade? Or still at 1/8"?
PT Dealer employee.

Offline fritter63

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Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2016, 10:11 AM »
Those of you that have gone metric, are you running a metric table saw blade? Or still at 1/8"?

Mine is metric... 3.175 mm in width!  [tongue] [cool]

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1983
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2016, 10:31 AM »

Those of you that have gone metric, are you running a metric table saw blade? Or still at 1/8"?

That is one of the joys of the LS setup!  Doesn't matter if the cutter (blade or bit) is metric, Imperial or Gungan. You are setting the distance from it when you zero it out.

Cheers. Bryan.
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline mavrick1903

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Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2016, 10:35 AM »


Those of you that have gone metric, are you running a metric table saw blade? Or still at 1/8"?

That is one of the joys of the LS setup!  Doesn't matter if the cutter (blade or bit) is metric, Imperial or Gungan. You are setting the distance from it when you zero it out.

Cheers. Bryan.

Right. Till you want to advance the LS carriage by the width of the blade, or account for the blade width as you rip down. Then the blad and the LS being in the same system makes more of a difference.
PT Dealer employee.

Offline schtumpig

  • Posts: 33
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2016, 10:39 AM »
Did that cast iron top come from the UK - it is exactly the same casting as the UJK one bought from Axminster?
Peter

Hi Peter love the videos!

I bought it here in the USA from Tools-Plus but I am sure it is sold elsewhere under different names. This version is the made by General International and is Model: Excalibur 40-070 16"x27" Cast Iron Bench Top. In reality it is made in Taiwan by someone? Whom I am sure made a bunch and ships them all over to be branded by different companies. What I can tell you is it is nearly dead flat with a very, very small crown. Here is a fascinating article where they measured lots of router tables and compared them (Including the Bench Dog, Excalibur, Jessem, and Festool CMS) hosted on the Tool-Plus website just click the MEDIA tab to read the whole article:
http://www.tools-plus.com/excalibur-40-200c.html

And here is the schematics of the router lift in mm and Chinese

« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 10:58 AM by schtumpig »
My tools in the order I bought them: MFT/3;  OF-1400;  CT-26E,  Kapex KS-120EB;  MFT/3-Kapex;  RO-90DX;  Woodpeckers 660mm Precision Square;  RO-150 FEQ;  TS-55REQ;  118" FS3000;  MFT/3 Basic;  Fein FMM 350Q Systainer Edition;  CT-22 with Boom Arm;   MFT/3 + CIRT (Cast Iron Router Table) + Precision Plate + Incra Lift/Fence w/ Porter-Cable 75182 = Homebuilt CMS

Offline VictorL

  • Posts: 580
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2016, 11:34 AM »
Go metric, and don't regret. You will love it.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2016, 12:03 PM »
@schtumpig

Many thanks for the diagram - yes it is the same as the UJK top from Axminster.

Peter

Offline Stoli

  • Posts: 354
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2016, 12:44 PM »
I've also gone metric.  Bought the red conversion kits from Incra.

One place I am having trouble is router collars.  I have a set of metric bits, and would love to be able to get a set of metric collars to make it easy to figure out offsets.  But I have not been able to find a set in the US.  I have seen a set from Axminster, and they will ship to the states, but the cost ended up being about $60.
DF500; OF1400; ETS125; CXS; installer Kit;  Kapex

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2016, 01:13 PM »
The imperial system is based off of the human body. In building furniture for people, these proportions seem more natural. long live imperial!

Offline fritter63

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Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2017, 01:22 PM »
Reviving and old thread here......

I think I'm about to convert to metric and get the metric LS positioner (already have the previous (LS II?) incra TS IMPERIAL that makes it easy to just swap out the positioner.

But I just realized, it doesn't have to be either/or! I think I'll just mount them both on there, off center, and then all I need to do is re-mount the fence onto whichever positioner I want to use.

Anybody tried that?

Offline mavrick1903

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Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2017, 01:49 PM »
If I had two positioners, (I have the Incra LS in Imperial now) I would dismount/remount. I'd split the difference between the two, and have them both available so I could clamp down the LS clamp for which ever I wanted to use. Leaving the one not in use free to slide.

If I had two.

I'm not sure that I'd want that much extra mass though when it comes time to dismount for crosscutting. Also, my router table is under the bridge for the clamp, since my table saw service door is on the left, thus I have to dismount the Positioner for table routing as well, remounting for fence routing by flipping it 180 or dismounting all together for some operations.

My thoughts. YMMV
PT Dealer employee.

Offline fritter63

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Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2017, 02:01 PM »
If I had two positioners, (I have the Incra LS in Imperial now) I would dismount/remount. I'd split the difference between the two, and have them both available so I could clamp down the LS clamp for which ever I wanted to use. Leaving the one not in use free to slide.

Oh yeah, I guess that would work too! I'd just have twice as many things to check when I go to move the fence and can't figure out why it won't move... ;)


Quote

I'm not sure that I'd want that much extra mass though when it comes time to dismount for crosscutting. Also, my router table is under the bridge for the clamp, since my table saw service door is on the left, thus I have to dismount the Positioner for table routing as well, remounting for fence routing by flipping it 180 or dismounting all together for some operations.


Sounds like you have the same setup as me. The difference is that when I want to use my router, I simply unclamp the bridge and slide it further to the right on the rails, to where I have two fixed stops. This realigns it out of the way of the router table and allows me to use it for routing (or larger TS cuts). I do my crosscuts on the Sliding table mounted to the left of the blade.

Will post a picture of that.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline fritter63

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Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2017, 02:25 PM »
@mavrick1903

Here's my setup. In the second image you can see my fixed stops that move the bridge to an indexed location.

272957-0

272959-1

272961-2
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 02:37 PM by fritter63 »

Offline mavrick1903

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Re: Incra LS... Go Metric or Imperial?
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2017, 09:11 AM »
@fritter63 You've got an older LS positioner. looks like it's doing great! You've also got miles of room in comparison. I dont have as much room to hang my positioner that far right. I wish I did. Someday, next house/shop.
PT Dealer employee.