Author Topic: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?  (Read 16682 times)

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Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 735
It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« on: November 22, 2016, 10:53 AM »
Hey Foggers,

First off, I know that there are many of you that do not like these types of topics, for that I am sorry.

As the title says, I want to purchase a table saw but I can't decide on what to get. I may have it narrowed down to a Hammer K3 Winner 79x48" or a SawStop. I have a Hammer N4400 bandsaw and a A3-41 jointer/planer, so the K3 seemed logical. My brother had a very bad table saw accident that partially amputated 3 of his fingers (I have a picture if anyone wants to see it), so the SawStop would give me (and especially my wife) some piece of mind. I also understand that a sliding table saw is inherently safer than a cabinet saw. If I decide on a SawStop I would probably buy the industrial 52" 5hp model with mobile base and over arm dust collection, which comes to $4,897 before taxes and shipping. The Hammer K3 would be $5,390 (with no accessories) before shipping.

Oh, I have also thought about seeing what @WarnerConstCo. had available, but I believe most of his equipment is 3 phase.

I am a hobbyist, DIYer and tool collector, so if you were in my shoes, what would you buy?


Thanks,

Daniel
Daniel

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Offline jyarbrou

  • Posts: 31
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2016, 11:05 AM »
I have the Sawstop PCS175 52" and love it. I've had excellent customer service from them in the past when I had a couple of issues with the saw, and would recommend and purchase again. I've thought about adding on the sliding crosscut attachment, but shop space is limited as it is.

I still treat the blade with respect, but I also have a little piece of mind that if I do have a mishap, I'm much more likely to come out of it in better shape.

I've never used a Hammer, but i'm sure experience with them is top notch as well. Tough choice.
-Eric

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2016, 11:55 AM »
I should be at the happy point soon as we're now hunting for a new place, either with an existing large workshop or space to build one [smile]

A Felder or Hammer slider will be my target, but I can imagine a traditional cabinet saw format being more practical if you intend to use you table saw with different jigs and sleds more often than using it to cut large pieces.

That's the problem with being a DIYer/hobbyist - we tend to have a broader range of application "possibilities" that cloud choice.

In your situation I'd probably lean towards the SS if you imagined yourself performing a lot of in close narrow rip cuts with smallish pieces (though I'd probably use the bandsaw for those).

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1914
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2016, 12:42 PM »
Either would be amazing for DIY, I too like the SS feature and you could add the slider to the SS as well. So I'd choose the SS, YMMV
+1

Offline RussellS

  • Posts: 183
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2016, 12:47 PM »
I'd vote for the Hammer.  Having the slider right next to the blade on the Hammer more or less removes the need for the Saw Stop safety feature.  In the perfect world all table saws would have both a slider and the Saw Stop safety feature.  But the slider gives you Performance and most of the safety too.

Offline luke duke

  • Posts: 37
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2016, 04:27 PM »
I'd vote for the Hammer.  Having the slider right next to the blade on the Hammer more or less removes the need for the Saw Stop safety feature.  In the perfect world all table saws would have both a slider and the Saw Stop safety feature.  But the slider gives you Performance and most of the safety too.

Do you realize that a slider can be added to a SawStop?

Offline RussellS

  • Posts: 183
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2016, 04:59 PM »
I'd vote for the Hammer.  Having the slider right next to the blade on the Hammer more or less removes the need for the Saw Stop safety feature.  In the perfect world all table saws would have both a slider and the Saw Stop safety feature.  But the slider gives you Performance and most of the safety too.

Do you realize that a slider can be added to a SawStop?

Apparently there is a huge misunderstanding of what a slider or sliding table saw is.  Below is the link to the SawStop slider you can attach to their table saws.  Attaching this miter gauge to the saw does not make it a sliding table saw.  A sliding table saw has the slider, up to 10 feet long, right next to the saw blade.  There is ZERO space between the slider and the blade.  The SawStop has one foot of table between the slider and the blade.  This is not a sliding table saw.  Its a fancy, built in miter gauge.

http://www.sawstop.com/crosscut

This is a sliding table saw with a built in slider.  The blade is right next to the slider.  Zero space in between.
http://hammerusa.com/us-us/products/true/table-saw-k3-winner-79x48.html

Offline Steve Rowe

  • Posts: 825
  • Teach them safety when they are young.
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2016, 05:53 PM »
Sliders all the way for 12 years now and I will never go back.  As far as safety is concerned, don't get fixated on 'flesh sensing technology', my grandson (4-1/2 years old at the time and with supervision) has operated my slider safely.  Your hands and digits don't need to be anywhere close to the blade with a slider.  In addition, you are not in the line of fire for kickbacks since you stand to the left of the machine. 

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 274
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2016, 06:16 PM »
Forgot the name, SawStop is working with an Euro saw maker on a SS feature for the sliding table saw. No release date as far as I know.

Chuck

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1993
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2016, 06:45 PM »
I traded an old Delta Unisaw for the Sawstop Industrial saw and have been thrilled with the saw. I'd  have bought it even without the safety feature. It's a great product. For the work I do, a sled is adequate for what a slider would do.
Birdhunter

Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 735
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2016, 08:17 PM »
Thanks for all of the input, guys!

It really is a hard decision. I would probably be happy with either machine.

As others have said, the sliding attachment for the sawstop is not comparable to a true sliding TS. It is actually like the sliding attachment on my CMS. By the way, I do have the TS75 module in my CMS/VL with the Incra LS positioner, it's a decent setup.

The first project that I have lined up is to finally build my Roubo work bench with Benchcrafted hardware. Now that I have two shops, I've been thinking about building two benches, the split top Roubo and the Shaker bench.
Daniel

Offline Motown

  • Posts: 189
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2016, 09:26 PM »
Daniel,

Its amazing how such an exciting purchase can be so agonizing. I researched saws for about a year and just like you narrowed it down to the Sawstop and Hammer. I wound up going with a Hammer B3 (saw/shaper) and could not be happier.

I was really interested in the Sawstop technology and impressed with their build quality. That said, I've been using the Hammer for 6-7 months now and there are some great safety features that aren't really obvious......for example, being about to adjust the fence by pulling it toward the front of the saw. This helps prevent the wood from binding, during a rip cut, and kicking back. The only con that I could point to would be set up. Trying to level the table extensions and bar took me hours and its still not perfect but close enough.

Understanding that you have the 4400 and A3 there are some great benefits to of using accessories on multiple machines, just like Festool. I hope this helps and congrats on your new purchase.

Offline amt

  • Posts: 363
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2016, 09:58 PM »
The sliders are quite safe of you use the sliding table every single time you use the saw.  However, if you decide to use the slider in a "cabinet saw way", then there is no safety advantage.  So, you have to ask yourself: Will I use the sliding table for every single cut I make?  Will I be tempted to rip long strips the "old" way?  I pose these questions because I still see many who have these saws but end up using them the "old" way.  Just something to think about.  In a perfect world, I would have both :)

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1939
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2016, 10:11 PM »
I vote slider. I have been in talks on a Felder or Hammer for a while now. I was thinking the 60th anny pricing would have put me over the edge but it really hasn't.

I am moving into my new house and dedicated shop space next week so THAT might just do it. I have also been looking at the new Laguna cyclones as well (if you want to spend more money!!)

Cheers. Bryan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline tms0425

  • Posts: 101
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2016, 10:55 PM »
I faced that same decision, where both are very good options, very high quality, and safe products in their own way when used properly. I sawed about half my thumb off years ago, with a cheap Craftsman table saw, but my lack of sense would have caused this on any saw (another story). After looking long and hard at a SS 52", realizing the slider really wasn't, I found a basically new Minimax CU300 with 8' slide in great shape. I've gradually learned how to use it properly and have been very happy with my decision and results. Unfortunately, I may be moving from where I have a spacious shop, to basically none (back to my track saw), so I may have to sell it. If you want to play with mine you're fairly close to me and are welcome any time to see what it's about.

Tom

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4594
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2016, 11:48 PM »
1) Tell me why is it time to buy a table saw? Answering that question will give me a hint as to what you need as opposed to want.

I highly doubt unless you do this for a living you "need" any of the saws talked about here, wanting them is one thing, but needing?

2) What do you make?

3) How often do you woodwork?

4) What other tools do you already have?

5) What other tools do you need?

The guys here are looking at fantastic machines and we can debate all Day along which technology is better and which of those is the best made, but that has zero to do with you buying a  machine for your needs.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 12:14 AM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline tiki man

  • Posts: 38
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2016, 01:48 AM »
Bravo Dovetail,
I worked with one of the best euro sliders in one of the best shops on the west coast for 8 years making almost anything a designer or architect could dream up. Now I use a cordless TS55 and a Delta contractors saw in my shop.
I can make all the same stuff as before and don't need the big ticket items.

What it all comes down to is understanding that the biggest and the best or most expensive are not always needed to produce high end quality work.

If you have the xtra stupid money sitting around then go for the best of everything and show off your toys. Of go simple, learn your craft and keep your money, but dont forget to spend a little on a great bottle of bourbon......

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1993
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2016, 05:42 AM »
For me, woodworking enjoyment has a lot to do with the quality of the tools I use. Any decent drill will make holes. I enjoy the quality built into my Festool drills enough to fully justify the cost. My old Unisaw worked just fine, but my Sawstop Industrial makes me grin like a kid every time I use it. Its quality is well worth the price. Any circular saw cuts woot. My TS55 on an MFT track is levels of quality above a big box circular saw. To me, it's worth the money.

Just a different philosophy.
Birdhunter

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4594
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2016, 05:48 AM »
This has nothing to do with philosophy.

We still dont know what he is doing or why he needs a table saw. The best sliding table saw in the world may not be the right saw for him. The best cabinet saw might not either.

If all a person does is make little boxes and never needs to cut a pice of hardwood larger than 1"x8"x24" the sliding table no matter how it makes you smile is simply the wrong tool for the job.


The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2016, 06:17 AM »
This has nothing to do with philosophy.
...

It makes sense when one points it out logically.



Hoping the euro saw teaming with SAWstop is for an Erika85...

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2016, 08:17 AM »
Thanks for all of the input, guys!

It really is a hard decision. I would probably be happy with either machine.

As others have said, the sliding attachment for the sawstop is not comparable to a true sliding TS. It is actually like the sliding attachment on my CMS. By the way, I do have the TS75 module in my CMS/VL with the Incra LS positioner, it's a decent setup.

The first project that I have lined up is to finally build my Roubo work bench with Benchcrafted hardware. Now that I have two shops, I've been thinking about building two benches, the split top Roubo and the Shaker bench.

@Runhard it seems to be settled then, you need both [wink] [big grin]

Easier choice for me in Oz as not only are the SS horrendously priced relative to Hammer/Felder, I personally don't like SS.

Seems many don't want to understand that people simply get pleasure from using good tools [sad] I couldn't imagine someone on a car forum telling you that you only need a bicycle when you ask to discuss buying either a BMW or a Merc [blink]

I do think the point made about considering a saw/spindle combo is worth a few thought cycles.

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 434
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2016, 08:40 AM »
One of the things  I like about my   hammer slider  is the precision  with 90 degree cuts. Or other  various  angles.
You can cut a square so accurate  it could be used to calibrate or check  another square.

I know sleds   for table saws  are popular  but  they won't have the versatility  that  the slider offers (imo)  when doing those cuts.



« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 08:58 AM by Lbob131 »

Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 735
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2016, 09:05 AM »
Understanding that you have the 4400 and A3 there are some great benefits to of using accessories on multiple machines, just like Festool. I hope this helps and congrats on your new purchase.

Thanks for this input. I do have extension tables for the bandsaw so those could work will all 3 machines.
Daniel

Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 735
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2016, 09:11 AM »
I vote slider. I have been in talks on a Felder or Hammer for a while now. I was thinking the 60th anny pricing would have put me over the edge but it really hasn't.

I am moving into my new house and dedicated shop space next week so THAT might just do it. I have also been looking at the new Laguna cyclones as well (if you want to spend more money!!)

Cheers. Bryan.

Hey Brian,

Your comment is exactly my current situation. We just bought a new house and I finally have room for a decent shop and the Felder 60th anniversary sale has me in the market to by a TS.

I have a Clear Vue 5hp cyclone, so I am set with the dust collection  [cool]

Thanks,

Daniel
Daniel

Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 735
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2016, 09:19 AM »
I faced that same decision, where both are very good options, very high quality, and safe products in their own way when used properly. I sawed about half my thumb off years ago, with a cheap Craftsman table saw, but my lack of sense would have caused this on any saw (another story). After looking long and hard at a SS 52", realizing the slider really wasn't, I found a basically new Minimax CU300 with 8' slide in great shape. I've gradually learned how to use it properly and have been very happy with my decision and results. Unfortunately, I may be moving from where I have a spacious shop, to basically none (back to my track saw), so I may have to sell it. If you want to play with mine you're fairly close to me and are welcome any time to see what it's about.

Tom

Thanks for the offer, Tom.
I actually go to Fort Wayne every once in awhile. You probably just an hour or so away. Is your Mini Max a 5 combo machine? I would be interested in a saw/spindle/mortiser machine but probably not a true 5 combo machine. Do you mind sending me a picture and a little more information?

Thanks,

Daniel
Daniel

Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 735
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2016, 09:38 AM »
1) Tell me why is it time to buy a table saw? Answering that question will give me a hint as to what you need as opposed to want.
We recently moved and now I have room for a table saw.

I highly doubt unless you do this for a living you "need" any of the saws talked about here, wanting them is one thing, but needing?
I do not need a table saw, I just want one. This is only a hobby for me.

2) What do you make?
After I build my Roubo work bench I plan I make if furniture for my new home. I want to make a bed frame for my master bedroom, my wife wants a china cabinet and so on.

3) How often do you woodwork?
Not very often right now, I do not have either of my new shops setup.

4) What other tools do you already have?
Wow, it would take way to long to answer this question. I have everything I should want or need from Festool, Hammer A3-41 and N4400, drill press and a wide range have hand tools.

5) What other tools do you need?
Well I actually do not need anything but I do want a fully equipped shop.

The guys here are looking at fantastic machines and we can debate all Day along which technology is better and which of those is the best made, but that has zero to do with you buying a  machine for your needs.
I seem to disagree with this. Some of the input provided does help me with deciding what machine I want to buy. I simply was asking for help from others who were and are in my same situation.

Daniel

Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 735
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2016, 09:45 AM »
For me, woodworking enjoyment has a lot to do with the quality of the tools I use. Any decent drill will make holes. I enjoy the quality built into my Festool drills enough to fully justify the cost. My old Unisaw worked just fine, but my Sawstop Industrial makes me grin like a kid every time I use it. Its quality is well worth the price. Any circular saw cuts woot. My TS55 on an MFT track is levels of quality above a big box circular saw. To me, it's worth the money.

Just a different philosophy.

I agree with what you said. Woodworking is purely a hobby for me and I enjoy it when I have the time. I like quality tools and my wife and I are blessed with great jobs so spending money on tools is not an issue. It's not like I am fitting out my shop with Martin equipment, that will be my retirement gift in 24 years.  [big grin]

Daniel

Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 735
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2016, 09:55 AM »
Thanks for all of the input, guys!

It really is a hard decision. I would probably be happy with either machine.

As others have said, the sliding attachment for the sawstop is not comparable to a true sliding TS. It is actually like the sliding attachment on my CMS. By the way, I do have the TS75 module in my CMS/VL with the Incra LS positioner, it's a decent setup.

The first project that I have lined up is to finally build my Roubo work bench with Benchcrafted hardware. Now that I have two shops, I've been thinking about building two benches, the split top Roubo and the Shaker bench.

@Runhard it seems to be settled then, you need both [wink] [big grin]

Easier choice for me in Oz as not only are the SS horrendously priced relative to Hammer/Felder, I personally don't like SS.

Seems many don't want to understand that people simply get pleasure from using good tools [sad] I couldn't imagine someone on a car forum telling you that you only need a bicycle when you ask to discuss buying either a BMW or a Merc [blink]

I do think the point made about considering a saw/spindle combo is worth a few thought cycles.

Thanks for understanding, Kev!

I really do not consider the Hammer equipment as being too much for a hobby workshop. Isn't that what they are designed for?

Maybe I will look at the saw/spindle combos a little more.

On the site for used Felder machines they have a Format 4 kappa 40 slider at a great price, but it is 3 phase.[crying] I wonder how difficult it would be to set my main shop up to run 3 phase. I may talk to our electricians at work about it.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 10:10 AM by Runhard »
Daniel

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 742
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2016, 10:51 AM »
This has nothing to do with philosophy.
...

It makes sense when one points it out logically.



Hoping the euro saw teaming with SAWstop is for an Erika 85...

Can't see a European saw company making anything work with Sawstop and its destructive technology, more chance of a collaboration with Bosch. I've heard of the Italian connection and saw the picture but nothing has shown up for real in the last 3 years. Like most have said previously the tech isn't really a high priority for the true slider world. Going to be interesting to see what the new Government's policies regarding offshore production will do to Sawstop. Sorry not trying to start a political debate, just an observation.

John

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 434
Re: It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2016, 11:05 AM »
Isn't that what they are designed for?
Runhard.

Yes. They are hobby machines.
But high quality  hobby machines  that make the   competition   look like scrap.