Author Topic: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .  (Read 13520 times)

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Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1418
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2017, 03:20 AM »
The Bosch 572 is a Mafell made jig saw.  It shares a lot of parts with the pricier Mafell version.
P1 is made in house in Oberndorf just like most of Mafell tools. Its a small company with less then 300 employees. JS572 is made at Bosch factory in Switzerland. Other than both being barrel grip I can't think of anything that is similar between these saws.
You might be thinking about MT55 and GKT55. Those are indeed similar and one is made under licence.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 09:56 AM by Svar »

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Offline McNally Family

  • Posts: 614
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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2017, 04:15 AM »
So I went ahead and bought the Mafell.  I figured I had most of the money from selling my Carvex, I only had to chip in the extra 260 (which bought me the angling base and a small track and shipping).  A few questions for those of you who own one, does it get pretty warm when you are using it?  I bought one from the UK, 110v 50hz but was told by the seller that Mafell uses universal motor that works on 120 and 60hz.  But I was cutting out some corbels yesterday and noticed it was warmer than I remember a jigsaw being.  I am probably being hyper vigilant because it is an expensive jigsaw.  Any feed back would help.  Cheers,
Abe

Congratulations on your new jigsaw purchase! 
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26  |  RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | SYS-Rock BR10 | Cordless Sander RTSC 400 Set |  Cordless Delta Sander DTSC 400 Basic | Linear Sander LS 130 | PDC 18/4 set | CXS  2.6Ah Set | Installer Cleaning Set (2018 version) |  New style Festool hose D 27/32 x 3,5m AS/CT | Replacement Hose Garage | Remote control CT-F I/M-Set | MFH1000 work stool | Next purchase: TBD

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 408
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2017, 04:01 PM »
...
...  The Bosch 572 is...
track...

Does the same angle foot go onto the 572? (I am not sure if that was the Bosch Jiggy I was looking at or if it is a newer release).
The foot looks identical...

As to the tracks, I believe that they are made by Bosch... One either gets the red printed Mafell version of the Bosch rail, or the same rail with teal coloured printing that says Bosch.
Mine are teal as "in country" they sold them... and there was free shipping.
The tools do not seem to care a lot about the colour/color.

The tracks are good, and the joining connector and clamps can be gotten with a bag.

Bosch and Mafell collaborate on a lot of tools.  It’s good for many of us on tigher budgets that can more easily afford to buy the blue versions.

Unfortunately I don’t believe you can put the Mafell footing on the 572 without doing some modifications yourself.

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Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2017, 04:55 PM »
Which tools besides the xxt55 are they collaborating on ?  After a quick browse of bith catalogs , nothing jumps out at me.

A Festool buyout of Mafell makes little economic sense.  There is much product overlap and Festool isn't big enough to assimilate a similar operation like Mafell and see any kind of sizable return by shutting the doors and eliminating competition.    Mafell's spcialty tools that FT doesn't have like morticers, groovers , ect.... don't really offer a growth market either. So, an acquisition for diversification doesn't look promising either.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2017, 05:12 PM »
So I am really enjoying the jig saw.  It has been very useful on my install last week.  I do miss the led light though. Anyone have thoughts on adding a light to a jig saw?

https://www.wildearth.com.au/buy/black-diamond-icon-headlamp-black-500-lumens/BD620629BLAKALL1

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 408
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2017, 10:01 PM »
Which tools besides the xxt55 are they collaborating on ?  After a quick browse of bith catalogs , nothing jumps out at me.

A Festool buyout of Mafell makes little economic sense.  There is much product overlap and Festool isn't big enough to assimilate a similar operation like Mafell and see any kind of sizable return by shutting the doors and eliminating competition.    Mafell's spcialty tools that FT doesn't have like morticers, groovers , ect.... don't really offer a growth market either. So, an acquisition for diversification doesn't look promising either.

Several the higher priced Bosch Jig Saws and Bosch Sanders have Mafell parts.  Several motors in in different Bosch saws use some Mafell technology. 

Stanley bought Dewalt, Porter Cable and Black and Decker.  There’s lot’s of duplicate skus there.  None of the business lines are hurting.  Technology is traded across the brands to reduce costs when it makes sense. 

A lot of battery technologies designed by Black and Decker are used by Dewalt and Porter Cable.  Several saw and motor designs are shared between Dewalt and Delta.

Bosch might be the one to buy Mafell one day.  Festool would be a better parent than Bosch.  At least Festool understands the high-end tool market.  Bosch has a shareholder culture which never good for a small and beloved brand.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 02:51 AM by Steven Owen »
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Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2017, 05:38 AM »
Which tools besides the xxt55 are they collaborating on ?  After a quick browse of bith catalogs , nothing jumps out at me.

A Festool buyout of Mafell makes little economic sense.  There is much product overlap and Festool isn't big enough to assimilate a similar operation like Mafell and see any kind of sizable return by shutting the doors and eliminating competition.    Mafell's spcialty tools that FT doesn't have like morticers, groovers , ect.... don't really offer a growth market either. So, an acquisition for diversification doesn't look promising either.

A) Several the higher priced Bosch Jig Saws and Bosch Sanders have Mafell parts.  Several motors in in different Bosch saws use some Mafell technology. 

B) Stanley bought Dewalt, Porter Cable and Black and Decker.  There’s lot’s of duplicate skus there.  None of the business lines are hurting.  Technology is traded across the brands to reduce costs when it makes sense. 

C) A lot of battery technologies designed by Black and Decker are used by Dewalt and Porter Cable.  Several saw and motor designs are shared between Dewalt and Delta.

D) Bosch might be the one to buy Mafell one day.  Festool would be a better parent than Bosch.  At least Festool understands the high-end tool market.  Bosch has a shareholder culture which never good for a small and beloved brand.

I labeled those.
A - which tools? The GKT55 and MT55? What else?

A - What does a fact of B have to do in any way with the arguments of set A

A - - What does a fact of C have to do in any way with the arguments of set A

D - Better parent in what sense? I do not think a 100 year old respected company needs a parent.
It is like convincing them that they need a master...

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 408
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2017, 12:24 PM »
Which tools besides the xxt55 are they collaborating on ?  After a quick browse of bith catalogs , nothing jumps out at me.

A Festool buyout of Mafell makes little economic sense.  There is much product overlap and Festool isn't big enough to assimilate a similar operation like Mafell and see any kind of sizable return by shutting the doors and eliminating competition.    Mafell's spcialty tools that FT doesn't have like morticers, groovers , ect.... don't really offer a growth market either. So, an acquisition for diversification doesn't look promising either.

A) Several the higher priced Bosch Jig Saws and Bosch Sanders have Mafell parts.  Several motors in in different Bosch saws use some Mafell technology. 

B) Stanley bought Dewalt, Porter Cable and Black and Decker.  There’s lot’s of duplicate skus there.  None of the business lines are hurting.  Technology is traded across the brands to reduce costs when it makes sense. 

C) A lot of battery technologies designed by Black and Decker are used by Dewalt and Porter Cable.  Several saw and motor designs are shared between Dewalt and Delta.

D) Bosch might be the one to buy Mafell one day.  Festool would be a better parent than Bosch.  At least Festool understands the high-end tool market.  Bosch has a shareholder culture which never good for a small and beloved brand.

I labeled those.
A - which tools? The GKT55 and MT55? What else?

A - What does a fact of B have to do in any way with the arguments of set A

A - - What does a fact of C have to do in any way with the arguments of set A

D - Better parent in what sense? I do not think a 100 year old respected company needs a parent.
It is like convincing them that they need a master...

I’m not telling you it will happen.  The possibility is always there.  No ever believed Porter Cable would sell out to Stanley.  No one would have ever thought Freud would become part of Bosch.

Consolidation is just a fact of life in many businesses.  If asked my if Apple would buy Beats 5 years ago, I would’ve told you no way.

The number one rule in business, “everything is for sale at the right price.”


 
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Offline Tommy2000

  • Posts: 2
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2018, 11:51 PM »
In my experience,
The Festool is also a saw which helps in the boosting the speed and the productivity of the work It helps in gaining more efficiency and bring proper and more precision to the work.

The Festools are considered to have better services as compared to the Mafells and this is the reason people tend to shift towards the Festools.


Therefore, I high recommended Festool Jagsaw, Hope can help you.

Reference source: Festool Jagsaw review

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4822
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2018, 12:09 AM »
In my experience it’s all what you need. Cutting 3/4” or thinner material...the Carvex and Trion are fine. I own both and prefer the Trion unless you’re cutting in the dark where the Carvex excels.
Now the Mafell...ah the Mafell...it’s the best of the best...cutting 2” timber and the cut line is within 1/2 degree or less of perpendicularity. If you are cutting 1” timber, perpendicularity would be expected to be in the 1/4 degree range.

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2477
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2018, 12:13 AM »
In my experience it’s all what you need. Cutting 3/4” or thinner material...the Carvex and Trion are fine. I own both and prefer the Trion unless you’re cutting in the dark where the Carvex excels.
Now the Mafell...ah the Mafell...it’s the best of the best...cutting 2” timber and the cut line is within 1/2 degree or less of perpendicularity. If you are cutting 1” timber, perpendicularity would be expected to be in the 1/4 degree range.

Yes - the Mafell is the best of the best, no question. I have owned and used them all and I no longer have a Festool in my arsenal. I like d the Trion too. Carvex just never did it for me...even though I liked the concept and the different bases. Not cutting straight or square makes the other features not so important.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4822
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2018, 12:26 AM »
Not cutting straight or square makes the other features not so important.

Amen...stated better than I could ever say. 🙏

Offline Rip Van Winkle

  • Posts: 301
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2018, 03:40 PM »
Which tools besides the xxt55 are they collaborating on ?  After a quick browse of bith catalogs , nothing jumps out at me.

A Festool buyout of Mafell makes little economic sense.  There is much product overlap and Festool isn't big enough to assimilate a similar operation like Mafell and see any kind of sizable return by shutting the doors and eliminating competition.    Mafell's spcialty tools that FT doesn't have like morticers, groovers , ect.... don't really offer a growth market either. So, an acquisition for diversification doesn't look promising either.

Several the higher priced Bosch Jig Saws and Bosch Sanders have Mafell parts.  Several motors in in different Bosch saws use some Mafell technology. 

Stanley bought Dewalt, Porter Cable and Black and Decker.  There’s lot’s of duplicate skus there.  None of the business lines are hurting.  Technology is traded across the brands to reduce costs when it makes sense. 

A lot of battery technologies designed by Black and Decker are used by Dewalt and Porter Cable.  Several saw and motor designs are shared between Dewalt and Delta.

Bosch might be the one to buy Mafell one day.  Festool would be a better parent than Bosch.  At least Festool understands the high-end tool market.  Bosch has a shareholder culture which never good for a small and beloved brand.

Bosch actually has a special corporate structure of a type used in Europe that I believe is used to avoid taxes. If I’m not mistaken, a large part of the company is actually considered a charity, woth different types of stock, and well paid advisors from different sectors who do not own stock but advise the company on future plans. A large percentage of Bosch’s profits suppossedly get reinvested in the company for research and development. Robert Bosch’s heirs supposedly earn dividends, that allow them to live comfortably but not obscenely. Ikea from what I understand has a similar corporate structural setup.

Bosch may not currently be known for “high-end” tools, but before Festool started to be widely adopted in the USA, Bosch was one if the main manufacturers of “professional” or “industrial” quality tools that were sold in the USA. The Bosch tool line was probably one of the most extensive from any manufacturer available, and owning Bosch tools would probably get you looked at the same way Festool tools would get you looked at now.

Bosch didn’t just manufacture standard Home Depot or Lowes level tools. The company manufactured dpecialty tools, like a cordless rotary shear that cost close to $1000, electric hand tapper “drills” that cost $600, sheet metal shears that could cost $1,400, etc. A number of more common tools had specialty attachments that made them more versatile, similar to what Festool currently does, and Elu used to do. Bosch also manufactured a number of specialty pneumatic tools for industrial use, and may still, as well as specialty tools to industrial assembly, as well as high frequency power tools, that are not going to be used outside of Industrial manufacturing facilities.

Offline sustad

  • Posts: 2
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2018, 06:04 PM »
Which saw has the best dust extraction?

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 605
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2018, 06:07 PM »
In my experience it’s all what you need. Cutting 3/4” or thinner material...the Carvex and Trion are fine. I own both and prefer the Trion unless you’re cutting in the dark where the Carvex excels.
Now the Mafell...ah the Mafell...it’s the best of the best...cutting 2” timber and the cut line is within 1/2 degree or less of perpendicularity. If you are cutting 1” timber, perpendicularity would be expected to be in the 1/4 degree range.

Yes - the Mafell is the best of the best, no question. I have owned and used them all and I no longer have a Festool in my arsenal. I like d the Trion too. Carvex just never did it for me...even though I liked the concept and the different bases. Not cutting straight or square makes the other features not so important.

I'll double-down on the Mafell option. There really is no choice. I'll add that the Trion is better than the Carvex. I bought the Carvex for the bases and promptly returned it because it did not perform as well as the Trion. Followed that up with Mafell and have bought several other Mafell tools since.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 605
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2018, 06:12 PM »
Which tools besides the xxt55 are they collaborating on ?  After a quick browse of bith catalogs , nothing jumps out at me.

A Festool buyout of Mafell makes little economic sense.  There is much product overlap and Festool isn't big enough to assimilate a similar operation like Mafell and see any kind of sizable return by shutting the doors and eliminating competition.    Mafell's spcialty tools that FT doesn't have like morticers, groovers , ect.... don't really offer a growth market either. So, an acquisition for diversification doesn't look promising either.

A buyout of Mafell by Bosch or Festool would be a disaster for the customer's. The product line is small without much overlap and is more expensive than anything offered by either. The price's will never come down and the quality would most likely fall off as the company's exacting standards would have to compromised to fit into the bulk production that Bosch and Festool have.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4822
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #46 on: March 22, 2018, 06:31 PM »
Which saw has the best dust extraction?

The Mafell also has a blower on board so from one side of the base, it directs air across the blade/cut line and the vac port on the other side of the base then evacuates the sawdust.  [cool]

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 449
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2018, 02:27 AM »
If you can't get perfect results with a Festool Trion you're using it wrong!  It's the smoothest most accurate Jigsaw I've ever used, i simply don't know how it could cut any better!

I've never used the maffel, i used bosch until i bought/discovered the Trion 6/7 years ago. Used other decently priced bosch & makita since...  I'd take my trion any day of the week!

The underating of this tool on this forum is a source of constant bemusement to me.
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline VaDimZH

  • Posts: 177
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2018, 04:48 PM »
If you can't get perfect results with a Festool Trion you're using it wrong!  It's the smoothest most accurate Jigsaw I've ever used, i simply don't know how it could cut any better!

I've never used the maffel, i used bosch until i bought/discovered the Trion 6/7 years ago. Used other decently priced bosch & makita since...  I'd take my trion any day of the week!

The underating of this tool on this forum is a source of constant bemusement to me.

Absolutely egree!
I had Bosch JS572 jigsaw and have Trion.
I compare them side by side,
cut so many times,check how accurate they cut,how precise...
the Bosch JS572 was sold.
The Trion is my best jigsaw!

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 117
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2018, 08:31 AM »
Bosch may not currently be known for “high-end” tools, but before Festool started to be widely adopted in the USA, Bosch was one if the main manufacturers of “professional” or “industrial” quality tools that were sold in the USA. The Bosch tool line was probably one of the most extensive from any manufacturer available, and owning Bosch tools would probably get you looked at the same way Festool tools would get you looked at now.
Maybe in the USA, but didn't Bosch get a bunk-up by buying Stanley Power Tools in the early 1980s?

With more than 40 years of trade use of Bosch I have to say that the statement, "...owning Bosch tools would probably get you looked at the same way Festool tools would get you looked at now". never applied in Europe. As a joiner that "crown" in the 1970s and 80s was most certainly held by Elu, creator of the plunge router, who's tools back in the 1980s pretty well all had dust extraction, too - unlike the Milwaukees, Black & Deckers and Porter-Cables of the day (and we did see them here in the UK until the mid-1970s). For drills and grinders, though, Metabo was the brand many people held in highest regard. Festool and Mafell were practically unknown outside of Germany before the 1990s (or at least I never saw any for sale or in use when living in the Benelux in that period, and they never made much of an impact in the UK, either). Out of interest in the 1970s and 80s many of Bosch's corded drills were actually being made by Holz-Her (power tool division now part of Festool) as well as some of the circular saws. In return it appears that Bosch were selling jigsaw gearboxes to a lot of other firms. In fact the relationships between the German power tool manufacturers has long been fairly incestuous with Metabo, Kress, Holz-Her, Mafell and even Bosch all having made tools for others; my first Hilti recip saw (late 1990s) was made by Bosch, my current Hilti WSC-85 rip saw is actually a Mafell and my Swiss-made Elus were produced by Scintilla (also the worlds largest jigsaw blade manufacturer) - a part of Robert Bosch.....

The difference is that the Germans pretty much concentrated on supplying industrial and trade users - so the quality was always pretty high. US manufacturers appear to have gotten into a downward spiral of price and quality much earlier. Nowadays, though, standards appear to be falling with Bosch stuff
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 08:37 AM by Job and Knock »
Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity
- Shaker Maxims

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1946
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #50 on: April 15, 2018, 04:40 PM »
Higher end tools were,and are still not the norm here in the US.  I chalk this up to what I call "trunk slammers", They lost their jobs, so went to Sears and bought a square, a $25.00 circular saw, and a tape measure and now they are "contractors".  Unless you were exposed to quality tools by being employed in commercial/industrial jobs, you were never exposed to quality tools for years.

Offline Rip Van Winkle

  • Posts: 301
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #51 on: April 15, 2018, 08:55 PM »
Bosch may not currently be known for “high-end” tools, but before Festool started to be widely adopted in the USA, Bosch was one if the main manufacturers of “professional” or “industrial” quality tools that were sold in the USA. The Bosch tool line was probably one of the most extensive from any manufacturer available, and owning Bosch tools would probably get you looked at the same way Festool tools would get you looked at now.
Maybe in the USA, but didn't Bosch get a bunk-up by buying Stanley Power Tools in the early 1980s?

With more than 40 years of trade use of Bosch I have to say that the statement, "...owning Bosch tools would probably get you looked at the same way Festool tools would get you looked at now". never applied in Europe. As a joiner that "crown" in the 1970s and 80s was most certainly held by Elu, creator of the plunge router, who's tools back in the 1980s pretty well all had dust extraction, too - unlike the Milwaukees, Black & Deckers and Porter-Cables of the day (and we did see them here in the UK until the mid-1970s). For drills and grinders, though, Metabo was the brand many people held in highest regard. Festool and Mafell were practically unknown outside of Germany before the 1990s (or at least I never saw any for sale or in use when living in the Benelux in that period, and they never made much of an impact in the UK, either). Out of interest in the 1970s and 80s many of Bosch's corded drills were actually being made by Holz-Her (power tool division now part of Festool) as well as some of the circular saws. In return it appears that Bosch were selling jigsaw gearboxes to a lot of other firms. In fact the relationships between the German power tool manufacturers has long been fairly incestuous with Metabo, Kress, Holz-Her, Mafell and even Bosch all having made tools for others; my first Hilti recip saw (late 1990s) was made by Bosch, my current Hilti WSC-85 rip saw is actually a Mafell and my Swiss-made Elus were produced by Scintilla (also the worlds largest jigsaw blade manufacturer) - a part of Robert Bosch.....

The difference is that the Germans pretty much concentrated on supplying industrial and trade users - so the quality was always pretty high. US manufacturers appear to have gotten into a downward spiral of price and quality much earlier. Nowadays, though, standards appear to be falling with Bosch stuff


Bosch as far as I’m aware never had anything to do with Stanley or their older power tool division, which stanley divested itself of multiple decades ago.
Bosch did have a joint centure with the Emerson Electric Company, who at that point owned the Skil power tool Corporation, which Bosch later Took over. Skil had manufacturing divisions in the USA and various parts of Europe, including the Netherlands. The partnership in Emerson was cslled the S-B Power Tool Co., which presumably stood for Skil Bosch Power Tools. During this period, Bosch tools sold in the USA might be the European made Bosch Tool models, usually the ‘blue’ ‘professional’ models, although some ‘green’ DIY  models were also sold in the USA, but in the ’blue’ bosch color. Other Bosch models such as jigsaws and grinders were made in the USA, but using the exact same designs as the European made Bosch tools. There were some European tools that never made it to the USA, and some USA made Bosch tools, like the 1617 series routers, that I don’t believe were sold in Europe. As far as the Skil branded tools went, the worm drive circular saws models were mostly left as is. Other Skil tools were also still made in the USA, usially simpler, less fancy, lower cost, models that lacked fancy adjustments found on similar European Bosch tools. For instance Bosch sold a decently adjustable biscuit jointer that was designed to take on Porter Cable or Dewalt models, whereas the Skil biscuit jointer had a much dimpler fence, and seemed designed more for basic factory furniture joinery. The same applied to heavier right angle random orbit sanders both companies sold. Some other Skil tools that were sold in the USA were European made ‘green’ Bosch tools that were more for the DIY market.

As far as Bosch being a top of the line “professional” brand, that information for the 70s, 80s, and 90s, came from older professional woodworkers I knew, and what they recommended, as well as the Whole Earth Catalogue, which mention Bosch being top of the line for power tools along with Milwaukee, and companies like Ridgid and Rothenberger for plumbing tools. The local tool repair place that was an official repair center for most major brands alsio used to recommend Bosch and Milwaukee.

As to Hilti, up until the 90s did they even make their own power tools other than their rotary hammers? I’ve seen older Hilti power tools that appear to be rebrands  from other makers, including drills that were identical to Metabo models exept for color, saws and grinders that might have been from Bosch, and a screw gun that apoeared to be a USA made Porter Cable model. The distinctive Hilti tools, that I presume were actually made by Hilti, were the 90s models, from when Hilti turned up in Home Depot in the USA, and presumably a few years before that in Europe. Many of those tools were manufactured in Lichtenstein, and had very distinctive features, and looks, that set them apart from other power tool brands being sold. The jigsaws had self contained dust collectors, as did some of the smaller rotary hammers, the corcular saw was a worm/hypoid drive track saw, the screw guns were made for collated screw adapters, as well as having other unusual features, the top of the line cordless drill had three speeds back when two was usual etc.
Alledgedly, Hiltis venture into selling a wider variety of innovative power tools didn’t go great, and they didn’t move enough tools for it to be really profitable. Hilti has since dropped a bunch if the innovative designs for simpler models, and moved production to China for those models in a joint venture with Panasonic.


Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3469
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #52 on: April 16, 2018, 01:31 AM »
"According to the history section of the Bosch U.S. website, in 1980 "Robert Bosch Power Tool Corporation [was] established in New Bern, NC through acquisition of the power tools division of The Stanley Works, a leading U.S. producer of hardware and tools.""

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 117
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #53 on: April 16, 2018, 05:30 PM »
Bosch as far as I’m aware never had anything to do with Stanley or their older power tool division, which stanley divested itself of multiple decades ago.
As Michael pointed out, Bosch did indeed take-over Stanley's power tool division in 1980 as well as its' international subsidiaried - and in the UK that sounded the death knell for both the Stanley Power Tools factory in Workington and later for the router cutter factory at Cramlingham. In the USA Bosch continued to manufacture the Stanley lines of tools, initially branded "Stanley Power Tools, a division of Robert Bosch" and later just as "Bosch" In terms of routers many of the design features seen in earlier Stanleys were refined and continued into the first generation of Bosch routers (models 1601 to 1606) which were almost certainly already fully or partly developed by Stanley before the sale. The only routers from that period with any European heritage were the 1608 and 1609 laminate trimmers which were an amalgam of the "standard" Bosch grinder motor (already in use in 500 to 600 watt plunge routers in Europe - incidentally the only routers they made prior to the Stanley purchase) and the Stanley laminate trimmer base.

There were some European tools that never made it to the USA, and some USA made Bosch tools, like the 1617 series routers, that I don’t believe were sold in Europe.
The 1617 routers were/are sold in Europe as the GOF1400/GMF1400, but they aren't really popular as when compared to equivalent local market models they are larger and heavier with poor dust extraction, not to mention very expensive (at least in Benelux and UK markets). I actually own a 1618 (a magnesium model, no less) and in comparison to an older Elu OF97e (now called deWalt DW621/622) it is big, heavy, clumsy and generally nowhere near as nice a tool to use - even when installed in that grossly oversized plunge base. That design underlines the major difference between US and European router usage - in Europe plunge routers reign supreme with very few fixed base routers being sold

Alledgedly, Hiltis venture into selling a wider variety of innovative power tools didn’t go great, and they didn’t move enough tools for it to be really profitable. Hilti has since dropped a bunch if the innovative designs for simpler models, and moved production to China for those models in a joint venture with Panasonic.
You can say that again. I know from personal experience that there were some major design and manufacturing defects in the worm drive circular saws which allegedly resulted in a massive number of warranty claims - something I can confirm happened to me (e.g. three cracked or broken quadrant arms on a WSC-265 saw in 4 years - Hilti refused to warranty the last breakage so I bought Festool - this wasn't the only issue, either)
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Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 605
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #54 on: April 23, 2018, 02:29 PM »
The difference is that the Germans pretty much concentrated on supplying industrial and trade users - so the quality was always pretty high. US manufacturers appear to have gotten into a downward spiral of price and quality much earlier. Nowadays, though, standards appear to be falling with Bosch stuff

I agree with the death spiral which is the result of the Chinafication of everything sold in the US. People demand the same or lower price for a tool every year. You cannot innovate if all you can do is sell a tool at the lowest possible price point. The DeWalt tracksaw is probably an example of this. I have never seen one in the wild. At $450 or it is just not on the radar of their trade customer who laugh at the concept of paying $450 for any non-stationary tool.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 408
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2018, 10:44 AM »
The difference is that the Germans pretty much concentrated on supplying industrial and trade users - so the quality was always pretty high. US manufacturers appear to have gotten into a downward spiral of price and quality much earlier. Nowadays, though, standards appear to be falling with Bosch stuff

I agree with the death spiral which is the result of the Chinafication of everything sold in the US. People demand the same or lower price for a tool every year. You cannot innovate if all you can do is sell a tool at the lowest possible price point. The DeWalt tracksaw is probably an example of this. I have never seen one in the wild. At $450 or it is just not on the radar of their trade customer who laugh at the concept of paying $450 for any non-stationary tool.

You have to place 100% of the blame on the US tool companies who cut corners to maximize profits.  China is very capable of building top notch tools with uncompromising quality.  They build to spec. 

Home Depot give a spec and a price point they want to sell a tool a retail.  Ryobi goes back to China and the factory in China builds the tool to that spec and price point.

Tools are suffering from Home Depot-fication.   Home Depot has done more to destroy many great brands than any other company in Canada and the US.

With more tools being sold online and direct, there’s finally a light at the end of the tunnel.  Mafell is available to North America because of Online sales channels.
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