Author Topic: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .  (Read 4146 times)

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Offline abates

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Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« on: August 30, 2017, 10:04 AM »
Hi All, I am looking for a new jigsaw.  Admittedly, I don't use a jig saw frequently, but when I do I need a good one.  I used to have a Bosch that worked well till I "upgraded" to a carvex.  I just sold the carvex and am looking for a new saw.  I don't need to spend the money on the mafell (nor do I want to) but I am willing to if it is the only decent saw on the market. I like to buy the best I can get but I am trying to learn to be more practical and that often the "best" is more about hype and marketing than reality. I often lean toward USA made, Swiss made, or German made tools.  Though I don't want to write off Chinese tools out of hand. I am open to suggestion for an $80 Bosch or whatever, but I need some feedback from people who have used them. Or should I just pull the trigger on the Mafell (and then my wife can pull the trigger on me:) Thanks!

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Offline waho6o9

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2017, 10:23 AM »
Hilti is worth considering, but if you want perfection Mafell is the way to go from what I've heard.....

I like my Hilti and Carvex but have never used a Mafell.

Now a word from my betters........

:)


Offline aloysius

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2017, 11:40 AM »
You've not mentioned your preference in jigsaw format:  bodygrip or bow handled, corded or cordless.  Mafell are almost universally regarded as the creme de la creme, but are only available in corded bodygrip only.  It's also lacking some contemporary features/gimmicks such as automatic acceleration, flashing headlights etc.  However if performance is your primary consideration, you'd be hard pressed to find better.

Bosch are also highly regarded.  If heavy cutting in Max thicknesses =\< 6" is your requirement, then this is your machine.  If you prefer cordless body grips then the 18v Metabo has the slimmest (i.e. safest) circumference and those useful but functionally unnecessary headlights & accelerator function.

Without careful assessment of your requirements, it's difficult to make definitive recommendations.  Nevertheless, as you've undoubtedly already discovered, the green alternative offers not just dubious value for your hard earned readies, but rather disappointing performance in comparison to its peers.  My own Trion Saw was extremely disappointing:  expensive, toxic on blade life & incapable of consistently cutting at 90 degrees.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Dovetail65

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Offline antss

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2017, 07:02 PM »
They all cut wood. 

What are you cutting ?

Offline ScotF

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2017, 01:40 AM »
I have owned and used both versions of Festool, a couple of Bosch (including the JS572) and the Mafell.

The Mafell is hands-down the best jigsaw I have ever used - pristine cuts, square, powerful - pretty much everything you want in a jigsaw except a light (and no D handle if you prefer that style). It has several unique features that may or may not be important - like switching the blade to cut backwards or moving the shoe forward to cut exactly to the end of the machine -- think cuts outs or stopped cuts at the edge of a vertical piece like a wall. It also takes a special blade for square cuts in tight curves. All around a great saw - but not cheap. With most tools I buy, I forget about the price in time and appreciate the tool.

But, I also have the Bosch JS572 and it is also a really nice saw. Not as accurate as the Mafell, but pretty good and much cheaper.

I sold both of my Festools (Trion and Carvex) as I just did not like them as much -- actually I did like the Trion and thought it was very smooth, but I had to thin my herd of 4 jigsaws and I liked the Mafell and Bosch better. The Festool saws were OK, but I had a hard time getting straight and accurate cuts with mine with any consistency and square cuts proved challenging at times, especially when swapping blades and readjusting the blade guides.

Again, all nice saws, but the Mafell and Bosch performed better for me than the FT versions. YMMV.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2017, 03:07 AM »
I also own both the Trion and the Carvex. When cutting 2x materials, they're better than the Milwaukee I previously owned for square cuts, but still rather disappointing after listening to/believing in the Festool marketing hype.

I'm now thinking about putting both of them down the road and picking up the Mafell instead. The only reason I haven't pulled the pin is I prefer the D handle configuration.

I like the Trion because it's so smooth and the Carvex because it has built in lighting. But other than that, the blade guide adjustment on both is a PITA and neither one cuts absolutely square in thick materials.

Offline abates

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2017, 09:47 AM »
Hi all, thanks for pushing me to clarify what I am looking for. My Bosch was a d-handle and I didn't realize until I went to the barrel grip of the carvex that I like the starter and speed control of a trigger switch on the d-handle.  The carvex switch was hard to reach.  But with the start button being what it is, I did like the barrel grip quite a bit.  I guess grip is not a big deal to me.
Gimmicks are not important to me (lights, acceleration before start, etc). Most of the blades I use are small fine cutting wood blades for sink cutouts in counter tops, cutting out electrical access in the back of cabinets, cutting jigs for router templates, or cutting corbels.  I am a professional woodworker, but again, I don't use the jigsaw a ton.  It's just that when I do use it, I want it to work well.  Never had the results that the carvex promised and it seemed like every time I used it I broke two blades from the heat build up on those guides.
 I will continue to think on it.  What I do with a jig saw tells me I only need a cheap tool, but my aversion to cheap tools tells me I need the mafell. Sometimes I hate being a consumer. . .

Offline Jozsef Kozma

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2017, 12:24 PM »
If I would by a jigsaw it would bee a Mafell
But I would never get rid of my carvex cordless
with its attachments :)
For my line of work being cordless is a great help
Jozsef

Offline antss

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2017, 05:20 PM »
For what you described ,one of the Bosch saw should be more than adequate.

Sure,  the Mafel is better . But it comes at a price , which you seem to have reservations about. Nothing wrong with that; but this is like everything else . Rarely will you find a high quality widget at a cut rate price.

The Bosch represents a good value , and why they likely outsell the other two German brands ten to one.

Online Kev

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2017, 05:37 PM »
If I was buying another jigsaw and I didn't want it to be cordless and I didn't want it to fit in a CMS module and I didn't care that there was no warranty support for it in Oz ... I'd seriously consider the Mafell.

On reputation the Mafell seems the most capable, but I've never put my hands on one!

 

Offline Holmz

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2017, 08:22 PM »
If I was buying another jigsaw and I didn't want it to be cordless and I didn't want it to fit in a CMS module and I didn't care that there was no warranty support for it in Oz ... I'd seriously consider the Mafell.

On reputation the Mafell seems the most capable, but I've never put my hands on one!

And if one is OK with a barrel grip.
And if one is OK with getting it flown in from Germany.

In 230v land it seems ideal, but I would suggest a Bosch may be enough for most things.

The p1cc is a nice jig saw, and I was cutting the cement board with the hitachi carbide tipped blades last weekend.

One feature that is nice is putting the bade in backwards. This came in handy when I needed to make an electrical hole next to a wall (~4"away) as I was able to run the saw backwards for 1/2 of the hole.
That feature is only available with a p1cc. Whether one needs that is another story, and if I had planned ahead then I would not have needed to make the hole in-situ.

Offline pettyconstruction

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2017, 09:37 PM »
I like my Trion


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Offline abates

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2017, 03:39 PM »
OK, so I have whittled it down to the Mafell p1cc or the Bosch JS572eb.  Does anyone have any thoughts about this comparison.  The Bosch is Swiss made.  I handled it in the store today and while it looks nice, the blade release handle looks like it will break at some point and tilting the base was kind of a PITA.  But I like the light, I like the Swissiness of it, and I like the price.  Now, I spoke to a Mafell dealer and I REALLY LIKE that the saw is meant to be repaired.  That is, if something goes wrong, parts are available vs throwing it away and buying a new one.  I like the tilting base feature.  I am still dubious about the hype of the "no-guide" system.  If I hazard a guess, a fresh blade will yield square cuts on most saws. . . And at 3x the price of the Bosch, well, you understand my hesitation.  Someone talk me into something please!

Offline abates

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2017, 04:13 PM »
Thanks John, I think you are correct. 

Offline Holmz

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2017, 06:16 PM »
I was going to talk you into the Bosch too.
But now I need to take the contrarian stance.

It has the best guide system (which is idiot proof with no guides).
You can even out the blade in backwards and cuts in reverse)
A great angle base.
Takes the extra wide Mafell blades which are flex free.
The circle attachment works.

The only "extra" is the angle base.

You cannot wrong with either.
But the p1cc will not have you wondering... It is a stunning tool.

Offline ScotF

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2017, 06:30 PM »
I have both of these saws and like them both - I think I gave some high-level comparisons in an earlier post. The Mafell is hands-down the best saw and the no blade guides is NOT a gimmick. The mechanism holds the blade securely and different than other tools. The plunge mechanism is much more robust than any other saw I have seen and this machine is just quality all around - the base is machined square, the bottom is machined to mate perfectly with the angle base, the DC is better than anything out there for a jigsaw, it comes with a parallel guide that works and also acts as a small circle cutter and I can go on and on.

Nothing wrong with the Bosch - I like it and use it - but I use it more for rough work if I do not want to mess up the Mafell like cutting stone or steel, etc... Not that the Mafell could not handle it, but I try to relegate it to wood-cutting duties only. I can do joinery-quality cuts with this thing.

Here are some videos of this saw in action I filmed after I got it...






Offline Cheese

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2017, 06:55 PM »
If I hazard a guess, a fresh blade will yield square cuts on most saws. . .

Unfortunately no...I proved that to myself on the Milwaukee, on the Carvex and on the Trion. This is especially the case as the stock gets thicker or if you're cutting circles or rounding corners on tables or countertops. As you side load the saw the blade flexes and the cut is no longer square. 


Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2017, 07:14 PM »
Please understand that this post is not attacking any brand.  Nor am I attacking the ability of individuals to operate whatever saws they operate.

After reading so many posts here about jigsaws I honestly amazed at the amount of money that people spend for them.  Whatever brand.  Looking for the holy grail of perfect cuts, dust collection, perpendicularity, etc.

The tool operates a a blade that is usually only supported at the top and that cuts thru the workpiece vertically.  It is designed to cut cuts and follow a line.  The hand that controls the tool is located aft of the blade.  When cutting curves - especially cutting tighter curves - if you are not pivoting directly over the blade there will be a tendency to sweep and deflect the blade.  This is true for any blade.  Manufacturers had tried to counter this by placing knobs on top of the saws over the blades to help pivot it.  The have come with blade support mechanisms.  They have come up with thicker or specially shaped blades.

To get the most out of any jigsaw you own you need to learn to pivot it and turn it on the axis of the blade.

Peter
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 07:19 PM by Peter Halle »
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Holmz

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2017, 08:12 PM »
...
To get the most out of any jigsaw you own you need to learn to pivot it and turn it on the axis of the blade.

Peter

Very good point Peter.

There are enough idiot-proof features (like the lack of guides) on the saw in question that make it easier.
But I could also likely stand having greater level of skill.

Whether that saw is needed is uncertain, but my reasoning was that I wanted every advantage to help ease the process.
At this point it is becoming a bit difficult for me to keep blaming the equipment on lack of quality results... [blink]

Offline rst

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2017, 08:33 PM »
A awful lot of jigsaw problems is, in my (not so humble.. 50 years of experience) opinion, is user error and expectations.  When I use my 40 year old Skilsaw, I'm shoving thru thru hard because I know that it will cut anything from steel to concrete.  What I don't expect is for it to give me a cut that will be within 1-2mm for start to finish.  I also have a 30 some year old Bosch that I have cut aluminum, glass, wood, and steel.  I have the two Carvex', corded and cordless and both cut to my expectations.  I use my tools to make parts for commercial refrigeration part replacements and they work great for me. I have made thousands of $s worth of parts in the last ten years and I have no complaints regarding anything I've fabricated in that time frame. 

Offline ScotF

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2017, 08:49 PM »
I agree that practice is a key part of any woodworking process and I also agree that you need to have the right expectations for what a tool can and cannot do. For me I need as accurate a cut as possible on certain joints in furniture. Other methods may require lots of jigs or I just do not feel safe using that method. In these scenarios the right jigsaw works very well. So it provides me with value for what it does. Might not be the same for other users and some folks only want to spend a certain amount for the tool. All understandable and that is why it is good for lots of options in the market. 

Offline rizzoa13

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2017, 09:13 PM »
Every time I pick up the t-loc for my P1CC I smile because using it is enjoyable. I've had plenty of other jigsaws and every time I'd go to grab them I'd grimace. That's not really a metric you can put a dollar sign to, but I put a lot of stock in my happiness so take it for what it is.

Offline abates

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2017, 09:47 AM »
So I went ahead and bought the Mafell.  I figured I had most of the money from selling my Carvex, I only had to chip in the extra 260 (which bought me the angling base and a small track and shipping).  A few questions for those of you who own one, does it get pretty warm when you are using it?  I bought one from the UK, 110v 50hz but was told by the seller that Mafell uses universal motor that works on 120 and 60hz.  But I was cutting out some corbels yesterday and noticed it was warmer than I remember a jigsaw being.  I am probably being hyper vigilant because it is an expensive jigsaw.  Any feed back would help.  Cheers,
Abe

Offline ScotF

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2017, 10:55 AM »
Barrel grip saws can get warm, especially when working them hard. I do not think mine has gotten uncomfortably warm, but it definitely warms up on the handle and the knob. It is the same with every other barrel grip saw that I have used. I would not worry too much about it unless it is too hot to even handle.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2017, 12:33 PM »
But I was cutting out some corbels yesterday and noticed it was warmer than I remember a jigsaw being.  I am probably being hyper vigilant because it is an expensive jigsaw.  Any feed back would help.  Cheers,

I was using mine this weekend to cut some 5/16" aluminum plate. It did get warm but not unpleasantly so, I chalked it up to just being the nature of the beast.

Offline abates

  • Posts: 24
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2017, 10:16 AM »
So I am really enjoying the jig saw.  It has been very useful on my install last week.  I do miss the led light though. Anyone have thoughts on adding a light to a jig saw? 

Offline bobfog

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Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2017, 10:56 AM »
I recently picked up the Mafell for a bargain price on eBay. I also have the Bosch 160(UK model). My opinion, it’s a lovely tool, and a pleasure to use. But there is absolutely nothing it can do for my required usage, that I can’t do with the Bosch. So I’ll probably sell on at a profit.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 87
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2017, 01:28 AM »
Hi all, thanks for pushing me to clarify what I am looking for. My Bosch was a d-handle and I didn't realize until I went to the barrel grip of the carvex that I like the starter and speed control of a trigger switch on the d-handle.  The carvex switch was hard to reach.  But with the start button being what it is, I did like the barrel grip quite a bit.  I guess grip is not a big deal to me.
Gimmicks are not important to me (lights, acceleration before start, etc). Most of the blades I use are small fine cutting wood blades for sink cutouts in counter tops, cutting out electrical access in the back of cabinets, cutting jigs for router templates, or cutting corbels.  I am a professional woodworker, but again, I don't use the jigsaw a ton.  It's just that when I do use it, I want it to work well.  Never had the results that the carvex promised and it seemed like every time I used it I broke two blades from the heat build up on those guides.
 I will continue to think on it.  What I do with a jig saw tells me I only need a cheap tool, but my aversion to cheap tools tells me I need the mafell. Sometimes I hate being a consumer. . .

Abates:

Don’t overthink yourself into a corner either.  You’re not a heavy Jig Saw user.  We’re all guilty of making purchases that are largely driven by our egos rather than by necessity. 

The Mafell Jigsaw is the best of the best.  It’s designed for people who are using their jig saws on a daily basis for regular project work.  They need the speed the Mafell offers to finish projects on tight deadlines.  They make a living with their tools so tools that save time are valuable to their work. 

The Bosch 572 is a Mafell made jig saw.  It shares a lot of parts with the pricier Mafell version.  The 572 can cut just an cleanly as the Mafell with a high quality blade but not at full throttle. It will take you longer to make a clean cut with the 572.

You can use the Mafell track with the Bosch 572 track adapter from Europe.

The biggest benfit of the Mafell is its speed.  It cuts accurately at blazing fast speeds.  A cut that takes 3 minutes on the Bosch 572, the Mafell can do the same cut in a minute and a half.

Your project won’t look any better and your cuts will not be any cleaner because you used the Mafell over the Bosch 572 or the Festool Carvex.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3877
Re: Jig Saw: mafell or . . .
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2017, 01:38 AM »
...
...  The Bosch 572 is...
track...

Does the same angle foot go onto the 572? (I am not sure if that was the Bosch Jiggy I was looking at or if it is a newer release).
The foot looks identical...

As to the tracks, I believe that they are made by Bosch... One either gets the red printed Mafell version of the Bosch rail, or the same rail with teal coloured printing that says Bosch.
Mine are teal as "in country" they sold them... and there was free shipping.
The tools do not seem to care a lot about the colour/color.

The tracks are good, and the joining connector and clamps can be gotten with a bag.