Author Topic: MFT Hole Jigs  (Read 9268 times)

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Offline TrackTubesGuy

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MFT Hole Jigs
« on: September 27, 2018, 08:44 AM »
Thinking of purchasing one of the dog hole drilling/routing  systems to make my own MFT style tables for a project I'm working on.  Looking for feedback from anyone who's used the Woodpecker, Dominofix, or the UJK Parf system.  I've watched all the videos available online ... just looking for actual users input.  Thanks.

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Offline HarveyWildes

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2018, 09:54 AM »
Thinking of purchasing one of the dog hole drilling/routing  systems to make my own MFT style tables for a project I'm working on.  Looking for feedback from anyone who's used the Woodpecker, Dominofix, or the UJK Parf system.  I've watched all the videos available online ... just looking for actual users input.  Thanks.

I've used the Parf guide system to drill MFT holes in a 1.5" thick bench top.  The hole pattern is very accurate, the system was easy to use.  I did get more blowout drilling through wood than I would have liked, so I started backing up the wood when drilling, but that would have been an issue with any jig that I used.  In addition to the hole pattern on the top, I also drilled a set of holes along the front that have been quite useful.


Offline neilc

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2018, 10:26 AM »
I have used the Parf guide on several tops.  It's very accurate and works well.  Agree with Harvey on using a backer board on any drilling for cleaner holes.

I've drilled in baltic birch and lightweight MDF and both have worked very well with the Parf guide.

One thing I liked about the Parf guide is the rulers allowing for large layout with a highly accurate and consistent hole grid across a longer distance than I felt I could get from a smaller guide like the Woodpecker or DominoFix guide.

Offline clark_fork

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Clark Fork

"A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths."  Stephen Wright

"straight, smooth and square" Mr. Russell, first day high school shop class-1954

" What's the good of it?" My Sainted Grandmother

"You can't be too rich, too thin or have too many clamps." After my introduction to pocket joinery and now the MFT work process

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don't hesitate to make it beautiful." -- Shaker dictum

Offline Svar

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2018, 11:58 AM »
I did get more blowout drilling through wood than I would have liked, so I started backing up the wood when drilling, but that would have been an issue with any jig that I used. 
That (blowout) does not happen if you use a template (such as actual MFT top) and a router with pattern bit.

Offline Cheese

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2018, 01:04 PM »
I purchased and have used the Woodpeckers item. Here's a previous thread.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-sales-dealer-area/last-day-to-order-woodpeckers-onetime-diy-mft-jig-(us)/msg549308/#msg549308

Long story short, hole-to-hole spacing with the Woodpeckers fixture is very, very accurate and repeatable. The real issue is the lack of a consistent hole diameter. That's because of the need to plunge an undersized router bit through the material and then try to clean up the hole. If my arms had the strength and worked in a similar fashion as a CNC tool, the clean up would not be an issue.

So my solution was to machine an aluminum adapter ring, fit it to the Woodpeckers jig and then use a Festool 20mm bit to directly route each hole to size. That worked well.

Offline TrackTubesGuy

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2018, 05:23 PM »

So my solution was to machine an aluminum adapter ring, fit it to the Woodpeckers jig and then use a Festool 20mm bit to directly route each hole to size. That worked well.

So essentially you're using the same method as the Dominofix MFT jig?  Thanks for the replies .. I do appreciate it.

Offline TealaG

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2018, 10:00 PM »
Did you consider the Woodrave jig?  It's probably not as dead accurate as some of the more sophisticated options, but it's simple and more affordable for "the rest of us".  :)

Offline tallgrass

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2018, 01:44 PM »
I use the Dominofix. I have used it to cut tons of tops and it is perfect. Fast and accurate.

Offline tallgrass

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2018, 01:49 PM »
here are pics of the last set of tables i did. That is green phenolic, 3/4 inch

Offline Cheese

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2018, 02:30 PM »
So essentially you're using the same method as the Dominofix MFT jig?  Thanks for the replies .. I do appreciate it.

Correct.  If l had known about the hole size issues with the Woodpecker setup, I’d have purchased a different jig system.

Offline Cheese

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2018, 02:36 PM »
here are pics of the last set of tables i did. That is green phenolic, 3/4 inch

I like the phenolic, is it slippery when you place items on it?

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2018, 06:06 PM »
I’ve used the Woodpecker guide for a small MFT surface. It works as advertised. Holes are good tight fit for my bench dogs. Holes are accurate.

I would not try it for a large surface. It would be a tiresome piece of work.

Birdhunter

Offline Svar

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2018, 06:19 PM »
I would not try it for a large surface. It would be a tiresome piece of work.
Why? Template is the fastest way of all, other than CNC.

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2018, 07:25 PM »
I’d buy a top from Festool rather than spent the time drilling out all those holes. The alternative would be to hire a CNC shop to make a top.
Birdhunter

Offline Cheese

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2018, 07:36 PM »
Why? Template is the fastest way of all, other than CNC.

The issue with the Woodpeckers setup is clearing the last bit of material from the hole. The initial plunge is simple but after the plunge you need to move the router around the hole at least 3-4 times. If you aren’t extremely careful you can get some odd shaped holes that then need more attention. I was working with 18mm Baltic birch. It may have been an easier if I was using MDF.

I’d never attempt a 1 1/2” -2” maple top with the Woodpeckers setup.


Offline TrackTubesGuy

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2018, 07:50 PM »
Thanks for the input .. I ended up buying the Dominofix template from The Tool Nut today.  It just seemed like the quickest method ... I'll let you know how it works out.

Offline tallgrass

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2018, 07:51 PM »
I have CNC. It is not always the fasted way. Dropping the Dominofix where I want it and running the patter is as fast as it gets. I love my CNC machines, however there is a reason I still have "manual machines" In my shop. One of the nice parts of the Dominofix is that it is self validating by by rotating it 90 and seeing if everything lines up. Like anything one tool is not perfect for everything.

As far as slippery, I clamp to the table. I also use RUWI components for cutting and their stand offs are non slip and sacrificial. You should look into them. There is great synergy between RUWI and the MFT..  If you look at the pics I think you can see saw lines . This allows me to lift out sections as I see fit. Also when moving them I just lift out the panels. Making moving the MFTs much easier. Because the tops are in 3 pieces I also have drop in panels for routers, jig saw...ect. Living in the USA NAINA is a pain and this is my work around. Which I love by the way.

Offline tallgrass

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2018, 07:54 PM »
you will like it. I use the 1400 with the festool copy ring. fit the ring to the jig not the other way around. it should be a slip fit.

Offline Svar

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2018, 08:07 PM »
If you look at the pics I think you can see saw lines . This allows me to lift out sections as I see fit.
I assume the sections would be hard to precisely aligned with each other (within fraction of mm) and hence can not be used for accurate positioning of material using dogs. Unless you place all your dogs into one section.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2018, 08:36 PM »
@tallgrass   “RUWI components”. Which ones and where do you get them?

Offline tallgrass

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2018, 09:22 PM »
They maintain their accuracy. I cut the entire sheet indexed to the lower right. You could choose differently.As long as you choose. I then cut the panels. If I need to verify I use the jig to lock it down. That is the benefit of this jig.

These are a sample of the RUWI things I use.The rail has a sacrificial friction surface. So you use them to cut on saving the table top. I use four of them and place my cut so that both sides of the cut are supported. These also provide friction for things like sanding. They work beautifully.

Offline tallgrass

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2018, 09:25 PM »
I import them from Germany. They deduct the VAT and the shipping is extremely reasonable. I love these components. I also use their products on the metal side of my shop.

Offline TrackTubesGuy

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2018, 09:53 PM »
I import them from Germany. They deduct the VAT and the shipping is extremely reasonable. I love these components. I also use their products on the metal side of my shop.

I'm familiar with the RUWI products and actually emailed them several months ago, trying to find a source for the rail connectors.  I was informed to contact a Felder Rep.  I actually was about to purchase a FAT300, so asked my Rep. about them and never did get an answer.  If you (@tallgrass) have a source for them and don't mind sharing it .. I would appreciate it.  Can PM if you want. Thanks.

Offline Svar

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2018, 10:48 PM »
Those RUWI parts are not proprietary.
Brackets are 80/20
https://www.ebay.com/itm/80-20-Inc-T-Slot-Zinc-Economy-Angle-Clamp-Block-40-Series-14117-N/371952381973
Veriatas bench anchors:
http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=59754&cat=1,41637
Then standard extrusions and bike cam locks.
I like o-rings on Veritas anchors.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 11:03 PM by Svar »

Offline tallgrass

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2018, 01:07 AM »
not sure they have the adjustable cam locks. The split dog is a regular solution. It is the adjustable cam lock and slat table that I believe is proprietary. I will check the 80/20 catalog to see if they are lurking in there.

I can give you my contact. He and his company are top drawer and were very helpful.

Tobias Bort
shop@bort-herkert.de

Tell him Todd Cumberland from S. California sent you. He was fantastic. Shop their web page at your wallets own risk.




Offline tallgrass

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2018, 01:28 AM »
https://ruwi.de/products/      [big grin] just if you want to peruse. :)

Offline rvieceli

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2018, 08:23 AM »

Offline gunnyr

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2018, 09:07 AM »
I'm a little late to this thread.  I also have the UJK Parf Guide.  Very simple to use and VERY accurate.  IMHO is a much more trustworthy method than others as it relies on simple, basic geometry to achieve its accuracy.  It is also very flexible. 

I missed @clark_fork comments earlier but urge you to read his review.  Very well done!  If his thoughts and experience aren't sufficiently convincing of the merits of the UJK Parf Guide I can only urge you watch Peter's excellent YouTube videos again.  I have a Paulk Compact Bench and @Timtool MFTC both made with the UJK Parf Guide.  I have produce excellent trim and furniture projects using both of them as cut stations.  I also have 2 MFT's.  After reading Clark's comments I will soon be making a simple cut top to use when I don't want/need to set up my any of the other tables.


My take:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/mft3-mdf-dimensions/msg548309/#msg548309
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Offline Cheese

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Re: MFT Hole Jigs
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2018, 09:59 AM »
FWIW...here are a couple shots of the results of the Woodpeckers jig.

Here's what a hole can look like if you don't carefully evaluate every hole before you move the jig to move on. There's a small blip at 9:00 and also at 1:00. That tells me that there's still extra material within that area. Maybe only .005"-.007" but that's enough to prevent a dog from entering the hole. This hole has already been "cleaned up" by me running the router around the jig/guide 3-4 times.



These photos are indicators of how accurately the Woodpeckers jig can place the holes:
The first photo is the center of the furthest LH hole. The center is 110mm.
The second photo is the furthest RH hole.  The center is 1167mm, although that may be tough to see.
That means the center to center distance is only off by 1mm over that distance. For imperial users, the hole to hole distance was off  by .039" over a distance of 41.5".  That's pretty impressive.  [big grin]



« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 10:12 AM by Cheese »