Author Topic: Mini table saw ?  (Read 12934 times)

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Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Mini table saw ?
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2016, 03:46 PM »
That looks like it is very finely made. Nice.

Seth

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Offline Mavrik

  • Posts: 240
Re: Mini table saw ?
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2016, 12:49 AM »
Somewhat embarrassed to admit I don't know how to use a table saw.
Did some trial cuts on my shiny new tool.
Using the mitre gauge in crosscut mode it works fabulously.

But I really showed my novicehood while trying to cut thin strips of Baltic birch ply against the fence.

I didn't push the ply down between blade & fence.
Have invented a missile launcher.
At end of cut the piece would shoot the length of the workshop.
On another trial the whole piece kicked back violently.

The saw is in a cupboard until I learn the basics of how to use it.

14 years with a ts55 and never had kickback once.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

TS55, MFT 1080, PS300, EHL 65, Domino, OF 1010, CTL 22, RO 125, BS75

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3491
Re: Mini table saw ?
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2016, 08:28 AM »
Somewhat embarrassed to admit I don't know how to use a table saw.
Did some trial cuts on my shiny new tool.
Using the mitre gauge in crosscut mode it works fabulously.

But I really showed my novicehood while trying to cut thin strips of Baltic birch ply against the fence.

I didn't push the ply down between blade & fence.
Have invented a missile launcher.
At end of cut the piece would shoot the length of the workshop.
On another trial the whole piece kicked back violently.

The saw is in a cupboard until I learn the basics of how to use it.

14 years with a ts55 and never had kickback once.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

I have to admit i have, once or tiwice launched missiles with my TS 55.  They were not kick backs but kick aways.  It only happened while cutting very thin strips without a blocking scrap at the end of the cut. No danger to me, but it sure could have put a hurtin' to anybody walking past the far end of the rail.  I think any spinning blade or bit can be a missile launcher at one time or another.

Good luck with your new saw. You will learn how to avoid mistsooks I am sure.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3677
Re: Mini table saw ?
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2016, 06:26 PM »
Somewhat embarrassed to admit I don't know how to use a table saw.
Did some trial cuts on my shiny new tool.
Using the mitre gauge in crosscut mode it works fabulously.

But I really showed my novicehood while trying to cut thin strips of Baltic birch ply against the fence.

I didn't push the ply down between blade & fence.
Have invented a missile launcher.
At end of cut the piece would shoot the length of the workshop.
On another trial the whole piece kicked back violently.

The saw is in a cupboard until I learn the basics of how to use it.

14 years with a ts55 and never had kickback once.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk



"Gets More kickbacks that a politician", is not a good moniker for a table saw.

I am keenly interested on how you go though, as have this saw on my radar for some very small work.

Howzit

Offline Mavrik

  • Posts: 240
Re: Mini table saw ?
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2016, 12:23 PM »
Actually  ... Tinker's comment made me realise something.
Every single time I've cut thin ply on my TS55 with the Festool "fence" bar down, the cut material becomes a missile.
I just don't do it anymore.

So obviously the same thing will happen if I just turn it upside down as with a table saw

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

TS55, MFT 1080, PS300, EHL 65, Domino, OF 1010, CTL 22, RO 125, BS75

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1680
Re: Mini table saw ?
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2016, 02:04 PM »
This saw doesn't appear to have a riving knife (can't see one anyway) which could be a reason for the kickback. As for the missile, I think the lack of a riving knife might also contribute to that problem. Since I have a saw with an appropriate riving knife I have never had any strip thin or not, be launched backward.
Randy

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3491
Re: Mini table saw ?
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2016, 02:21 PM »
Actually  ... Tinker's comment made me realise something.
Every single time I've cut thin ply on my TS55 with the Festool "fence" bar down, the cut material becomes a missile.
I just don't do it anymore.

So obviously the same thing will happen if I just turn it upside down as with a table saw

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

It only happened when I was either in too much of a hurry, or just being lazy.  When using my Rip Dog guides, the thin piece is  under my rail. 

If  not using the rip guides, I set up a fence just beyond the rail to butt the thin piece against.  In doing that method, one needs to add an extension to the fence to butt the end of the thin cut against. If you don't do that, the thin piece will almost always become an airborn missile.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline TheSergeant

  • Posts: 60
Re: Mini table saw ?
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2016, 03:57 PM »
See if you can track down a vintage Inca 250 or 259 table saw.  These are phenomenally accurate tools that were made in Switzerland.  They have a small footprint, have all the safety features of new table saws (riving knife, blade guard, etc) and run super smooth.  I have one setup with a Baldor 1.5hp motor and am constantly impressed with it. 






Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3491
Re: Mini table saw ?
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2016, 03:57 AM »
See if you can track down a vintage Inca 250 or 259 table saw.  These are phenomenally accurate tools that were made in Switzerland.  They have a small footprint, have all the safety features of new table saws (riving knife, blade guard, etc) and run super smooth.  I have one setup with a Baldor 1.5hp motor and am constantly impressed with it. quote)


I googled Inca 250 table saw.  The first site  was not much info.  The second site  found this

>>>This is an old tilting table saws which was imported from Switzerland/France from the late 70s to the early 90s. A nice machine for its time. Inca has long stopped manufacturing these and parts are near impossible to find (fleabay is your best bet for parts). The brand still has a cult-like following but I cannot see anyone spending $1000 on an old tilting-table machine with no parts, dealers or support. To each their own I guess. <<<

I'm not interested in a table saw, but the only tilting table table saw I ever used was a real PITA Shop Smith. You usually give great advise so I am wondering if I found the right information for the specific saw you mentioned.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline TheSergeant

  • Posts: 60
Re: Mini table saw ?
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2016, 02:29 PM »

I'm not interested in a table saw, but the only tilting table table saw I ever used was a real PITA Shop Smith. You usually give great advise so I am wondering if I found the right information for the specific saw you mentioned.
Tinker

As a standalone tool I'd never recommend it.  The complaints that people have about the tilting table, small overall size, etc. are legitimate---if you're evaluating it as a standalone tool.  You have to take the reviews with a grain of salt though and realize that at the time the Inca was released people were still using table saws to break down sheet goods (and most people still do).  For this application you wanted a heavy, rock solid machine with a 30"-52" rip capacity to breakdown plywood.  A tilting table in this application is an absolute nightmare.  Couple that with the fact that when this little saw came along with a price tag as high as a new Delta Unisaw or Powermatic people just didn't get it.

The track saw totally changed the game regarding the use and value of a table saw in a small shop though.  Once you get a track saw it's unlikely that you'll ever use your table saw to break down sheet goods, cut bevels on larger pieces, or cross cut large panels again.  As a track saw user you'll find yourself mainly needing the table saw for repetitive ripping of narrower-mid size  pieces, doing joinery work (cutting tenons, box joints, etc) and cross cutting small pieces (on a sled).   So all you really need is a powerful saw that's small in size, operates smoothly and is highly accurate.  Unfortunately at this point no such saw exists.  You have to choose between a heavy/smooth/accurate/immobile/large cabinet saw (or hybrid saw) or a small/portable/loud/inaccurate/light jobsite saw.  There is no in between -- except for the Inca.

Ya, the tilting table can be a PITA for beveling panels, but you'll never do it since you have a track saw.  Cutting bevels on smaller pieces is actually easier since gravity forces pushes the workpiece against the fence and all you have to do is just push it through.   

The thing with these Incas is that their accuracy is unrivaled.  The tolerances are just ridiculous.  The 18mm miter bar drops perfectly into the slot with absolutely zero play.  It's remarkable.  There's a huge vernier gauge for the tilt mechanism that allows you to dial in the angle in fractions of degrees.  The fence has a micro adjuster that gives you precise control of the fence down to .002".  Couple the fence/micro-adjuster with a Wixey WR700 digital fence scale and you have an insanely accurate and repeatable fence system that that can be removed/installed in 30 seconds reducing the footprint of the machine down to smaller than 24"x24".    The 259 model also comes with a built in horizontal mortiser and that coupled with their superb tenoning jig makes it a phenomenal joinery station as well.

Also, the motor on the saw is a strong 1.5HP Baldor motor.  It'll cut through thick hardwood just as easily as a Sawstop PCS 1.75HP.  not only that but the machine is as smooth as any 500 pound cast iron cabinet saw.  It achieves this through engineering, not through the reliance on mass, to deaden vibration.  I can balance a nickel on the edge of the table start it, cut a piece of wood and turn it off and the nickel will be dead still the entire time.  I'm talking dead still, like it was glued.

And finally the dust collection potential for these machines is huge for a couple reasons.  One is that the enclosure around the blade is extremely small.   You don't need a 2hp high CFM dust collector for it since the blade enclosure is so small.  It actually collects better using a high static pressure collector like a CT26.   Second is that these machines use an overarm blade guard.  What's exciting about the overarm blade guard is it can be modified with a dust collection port or, if you want better dust collection and visibility, a new guard can be fabricated out of lexan. 

If you don't have a track saw then this is absolutely not the saw for you.   You'e be better off with buying a traditional contractors, hybrid or cabinet saw.  But, if you are a track saw owner already and machine size is a concern then I don't think there's a better saw out there than one of these Incas. 

---------

Also, I saw the previous comments regarding people shooting narrow pieces out from the saw while using the fence.  The reason for this is that the heel of the blade is actually angled away from the workpiece by about .015".  This makes for a cleaner cut since only the front of the blade contacts the workpiece.  The problems is that since the blade is angling outwards in the rear and not perfectly parallel as you move forward in the  cut the gap between the front of the fence and the blade and the rear of the fence and the blade narrows and creates a wedging effect, which results in kickback and shooting of the piece if it is light enough.  Same thing happens on a table saw when the gap between the blade and the fence at the rear of the table is narrower than the front.  Just an FYI

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3491
Re: Mini table saw ?
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2016, 03:02 PM »
I knew you had a good reason for your recommendation.  Your reply is most educational.
Thankyou
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Mavrik

  • Posts: 240
Re: Mini table saw ?
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2017, 05:05 PM »
Had my Byrnes saw for a few months.
It is a table saw ... so required me to learn new table saw skills. (I'd never used a table saw before)

All I can say is that it's quite amazing.
I find myself looking for excuses to go to my workshop & cut stuff.

Enough said.
TS55, MFT 1080, PS300, EHL 65, Domino, OF 1010, CTL 22, RO 125, BS75