Author Topic: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO  (Read 20367 times)

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Offline Gary L.

  • Posts: 14
New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« on: May 27, 2011, 08:35 PM »
SketchList is just coming out with a new version of their Design software, called SketchList 3D PRO.  Just curious if anyone has seen it, heard of it?  Any impressions?  Link to SketchList 3D Pro here.Link to it is here.

I am a hobbiest and not too familiar with what is out there.  The program seems to work with "boards" like I try to do, unlike Google's Sketchup and a couple of other programs at which I looked.  That part sounds good.  So, I'm looking for something to help me plan and "waste virtual material" before I spend money on the actual material.  Also, I have a critical review process (wife approval) to pass before getting to spend for said projects.  Anyway, the program seems to have a lot of capability - just don't know if it does in practice and if it really does compared to other things in the market.

-Gary

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Offline NuggyBuggy

  • Posts: 419
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2011, 09:40 PM »
For the licensing fees they are asking for the Pro version, and as a hobbiest, you could afford to waste a lot of real wood if you worked with Sketchup.
“I am on a drug. It’s called Charlie Sheen.”

Offline raish

  • Posts: 1
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2011, 06:58 AM »
I think I paid $240 because I was already a user of the first version of sketchlist.
If you can afford Festool then that seems within reach.
I can only speak highly of the programme so far - I'm on some sort of learning curve and I don't have time for it  [smile], but I get a material price overview and 3D renderings to show to people...
Working with boards is the major attraction.

Offline SketchList

  • Posts: 3
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2011, 04:34 PM »
Disclaimer - I am the SketchList developer.  I will do my very best not to plug my product - promise.  I did want to share my thinking in the product development and pricing.  If this is out of the spirit of this group -- I am sure I'll be told and I will not repeat the transgression.  Maybe I'll be banned - I hope not.

My first goal in SketchList was ease of use.  As a woodworker I could not master CAD or, for that matter, SketchUp.  The idea of working with boards and building in wood working functions made sense to me - so I designed software that does that.  What I learned is that it's never easy enough for everyone -- so we keep trying.

My second goal was integration.  As a user I wanted design, shop drawings, 3D images, cut lists, and optimized layouts in one package.  For example, deleting a board from a design should take it out of the parts list - I think.

My third goal was to make the software affordable - and this is a bit of a quagmire.  I've priced it all over the place - and it someone is always unhappy with the price.  Surveys of commercial shops show (reasonably) that someone putting out 2 to 3 proposals a month can save hundreds of dollars a month using the software.  We priced the Pro version at at $100 a month.  Seems fair!   The survey might be debatable, and depending upon your hourly rate, quality of bid, types of drawings, etc -- the savings vary.  But the point is for the woodworking business -- price is considered in terms of return on investment.

Hobby users don't really use return on investment.  It is after all a hobby.   Users told us they would settle for less function to save money - so we did that.   - so we put out a Lite version -- $100 per year.

Our users have a large impact on our product development and our business practices, including prices.  I invite you to contact me if you have any input that can help us provide a better product at a fair price, or if you have a question for me.

Thank you - and again please forgive me if this type of post is out of line.

Dave


Offline justinmcf

  • Posts: 712
  • Queensland Builder
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2011, 07:01 PM »
hi dave.
can you confirm,  if i want to purchase your product (sketchlist 3d pro), i have to pay 1200 dollars per year, every year?

justin.

Offline SketchList

  • Posts: 3
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2011, 07:27 PM »
There are several options.  You can buy a permanent license for US$2400.  Or get monthly license for  US$125 per month -- after 36 months you convert to permanent license.  Or annual key for $1200.  After three years you convert to permanent.

Dave

Offline fritter63

  • Posts: 1328
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2011, 09:26 PM »
I remember running across the Sketchup booth at the Denver Woodworkers show YEARS ago when they were brand new. At the time, they wanted $500/copy for it. I was then using TurboCad at $50.

The advice I gave them is that they'd have a tough time selling it for more than the cost of most tools in the woodshop, and I was right.

Then Google came along and gave us all a big gift when they bought out Sketchup.

I have to say that for the cost (free) I'll suffer through whatever problems there may be with Sketchup, but I actually found it pretty easy to use (disclaimer: I AM a software engineer).

My only complaint is that it won't run on my rather antiquated Apple Powerbook, but I'm about to change all that....  [big grin]

So here's my advice to you, make one that runs on an iPad, and is more reasonably priced, and you'll make it up in volume.

If you don't, let me know, I may do it myself!

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1549
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2011, 05:08 AM »
I think we're all waiting for a tablet program for renderings/shop drawings

Offline colinw

  • Posts: 111
  • Bourbonnais IL 60914
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2011, 08:56 AM »
I think we're all waiting for a tablet program for renderings/shop drawings

Yes I have to agree with that. I have several computers but to be able to do drawings on the go with my iPad would be the icing on the cake.

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1549
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2011, 10:16 AM »
Really that's the only thing holding me back from buying a tablet. The ability to view, manipulate and edit drawings on the go would make a tablet a must have for a professional woodworker. I'm not talking full on audio cad our 3d  studio max, more along the lines of sketch up is all I need

Offline fritter63

  • Posts: 1328
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2011, 11:04 AM »
Really that's the only thing holding me back from buying a tablet. The ability to view, manipulate and edit drawings on the go would make a tablet a must have for a professional woodworker. I'm not talking full on audio cad our 3d  studio max, more along the lines of sketch up is all I need

True that. I actually put together a spreadsheet to analyze what I use my (home!) computer for, and how that functionality could be transferred to an iPad as my main device. I even moved things like finances into the cloud (web based bank apps, etc) so I could dump Quicken (which Intuit was already "screwing the pooch on" WRT to Mac platform), but there was one app that stubbornly remains onlyon  a full PC:

Google Sketchup

So I wait... or maybe I should just stop designing my furniture before I build it...  [big grin]

Offline joraft

  • Posts: 859
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2011, 05:57 PM »

If you don't, let me know, I may do it myself!


Before you start development, remember all the requirements:

1. Must be powerful and full of features, but easy to learn and use.

2. Must work flawlessly across all platforms and on all machines.

3. Must have great support and tutorials available.

4. Must be cheap (free is even better).

 [big grin]
John

Offline Gary L.

  • Posts: 14
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2011, 02:43 AM »
Wow,  This thread went into the land of vaporware (marketing fluff and some theoretical idea of a future product). 

Sketchup for me is a pain to learn and is nothing like building with wood.  It's very hard to use to analyse the decision issues needed to work with wood. Joinery for one.  A Tablet platform sounds wonderful at first but their is no woodworking software for them, so again just pie in the sky.

I own the earlier version of the software.  So, I tried out Sketchlist 3D Pro.  It seems really neat. 

First, of the programs I have played around with, Sketchlist 3D Pro is the closest to giving the feel to building with wood.  It uses the concept of working with boards and sheet goods.  It understands and works with grain direction, joinery, and that a board has volume... depth and width.  The designer (builder) keeps a supply of material and uses the boards in the shop.  It's easy in Sketchup(google) to use boards 10 feet wide and 2 feet thick.  With Sketchlist 3D, I would know that is bogus because that size bourd wouldn't be available.  As I have gotten the hang of it, it is starting to work for the "quick idea" stage, the sketch on the napkin kind of thing.  Maybe not quite as fast, but pretty darn close.. and it looks better.

Sketchlist 3D has the concept of assemblies – a subsection that can be used over and over in a project or copied from project to project.  Makes it easy to have your 'go-to' cabinet and then modify it for the specific task.  Makes it quick, easy, and reliable for repeat work.

It integrates a bunch of features to include cut list, 3d rendering, and creation of 3d pdf file creation (neat!).

This is but a couple advantages I see to Sketchlist vs other design software I've seen.  Yes, the price is more than free.  On my scan of design software, it isn't the only software with a higher price tag. Is the other software out there provide this kind of woodworking experience?  Or, do they get to charge the price because they are integrated with automated systems?   That would be nice to know.  I haven't seen it though in the packages I've tried out.

-Gary


Offline justinmcf

  • Posts: 712
  • Queensland Builder
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2011, 04:17 AM »
Hi Gary.

This thread went into the land of the fairies when Dave from SketchList stated his prices of $2400 - $3600.

I agree with other posters here who want a decent iPad application.
Once that nut has been cracked, I will happily purchase the right software, and the iPad.

I would love a decent application for showing clients a deck, kitchen or pergola they are describing.

It just needs to be basic so I can keep up with them (drawing) whilst they are standing there describing what they want.

Justin.



Offline Dovetail65

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    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2011, 05:59 PM »
Sketchup is not hard to learn. PM me I can offer a tutorial file I think may help you with woodworking specific help.

Out of Alibre, Aspire, Solidworks, Maya, Inventer pro 2012, 3ds max 2012, Corel Draw X 5, and Autocad 2012, Sketchup is the simplest  software I have found. It also does it well enough and fast enough for almost any computer set up.

You want a Cutlist and Board type work? That is NOT sketchup nor does it claim to be. Sketchup is more general, but almost anything can be done with it from video games to designing a mechanical device. Sketchup does so much for free there is nothing that touches it on a cost effective basis, nothing yet anyhow.

It sounds like you want a Woodworking software, again, that is not what sketchup is, but as far as ease of use that is what it is. You can't get the features from a software without some kind of learning curve.

Like I said am glad to provide some help via tutorial files, free is free and 2400.00 is 2400.00 and actually insane. Some of the best 3D software out there does not cost 2400.00!

« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 06:20 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4589
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2011, 06:31 PM »
I have been briefly looking at the Sketchlist software I just downloaded, it looks nice, kind of a cheaper version of the KCD  cabinet software that pumps out the cut list and everything for you. These really are not any better or worse than say Sketchup, just different.

I will have to use it a bit to see if it acts like a software that lets one use their imagination in a simple way or if it is more structured. Sometimes I find the cabinet software to specific to really come up with anything very imaginative.  I am going to draw up a few items in Sketchlist later this week and give it a whirl.. Its not a bad price at 240.00 - only 100.00 for the hobby version.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 06:35 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline pugilato

  • Posts: 579
  • Pugilato is not really my name... Andy
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2011, 09:14 PM »
Well, now that I have learned to use Sketchup, I like it just fine... I dont use it just for cutlists, but to visualize a piece before I make a bunch of sawdust.  With CutList, I get a cutlist, and I can enter that information into something like CabinetCut, which will help me do the must cost-effective cuts on sheet goods.  It wasnt that long ago that designing a project resulted in a trashcan full of discarded balls of paper with the various versions of screwed up drawings.

Perspective is everything, and free is better.  In a fit of madness, I bought a license for Alibre for $500 a few years ago.  That bought me free updates on the software for the year, at which time I had to pay another $500 (I had regained sanity by then).  I never used Alibre.  Not once.

With respect, $2400 is way too much... $100 per year for a lite product is way too much.  Remember that the competition, while not perfect, is more than adequate, and it is free.

Offline DKurzweil

  • Posts: 165
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2011, 11:07 AM »
After reading this thread I decided to try the sketchlist software.  I have been looking for a piece of software that can give me decent 3D renders and also purchase reports and optimized cut lists. 

The program seems good from what I have done with it so far.  I have emailed the company about the pricing, the pricing scheme has been changed since Dave posted back in June.  It is now a one time fee of $240 for the pro license, and $120 for each additional computer.  The price for the hobby version is a one time fee of $100. 


Daniel
Addiction includes TS75, OF1010, Domino 500, RO150, T-18 set, CSX, LR-32 set, CT48 and CTMidi

Offline Claimdude

  • Posts: 299
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2011, 10:39 AM »
After reading this thread I decided to try the sketchlist software.  I have been looking for a piece of software that can give me decent 3D renders and also purchase reports and optimized cut lists. 

The program seems good from what I have done with it so far.  I have emailed the company about the pricing, the pricing scheme has been changed since Dave posted back in June.  It is now a one time fee of $240 for the pro license, and $120 for each additional computer.  The price for the hobby version is a one time fee of $100. 


Daniel

Daniel,

I too am testing out Sketchlist pro. I am going back through the demo videos today for refresher then back to drawing a project. Something that bugs me is that in the view you drop boards, position, size them etc in the boards are so dark I can't see the joints without greatly magnifying the project. Selecting a lighter material does not seem to affect this view. The photo rendering shows the lighter color. It seems that the contrast between boards and a green selected board in the videos is much greater making the design work easier. Have you noticed the same thing or is it just my computer?

Also, something I attempted to create additional materials like an ash board that measures 4" x 48" x 3/4" but can't figure out how to get the color/texture set (part of the reason I am going to review the videos again today. I use rough lumber from a local mill so I need to be able to create odd demisioned boards for my layout purposes.

Thanks
Jack

Offline Gary L.

  • Posts: 14
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2011, 04:10 PM »
After reading this thread I decided to try the sketchlist software.  I have been looking for a piece of software that can give me decent 3D renders and also purchase reports and optimized cut lists.  

The program seems good from what I have done with it so far.  I have emailed the company about the pricing, the pricing scheme has been changed since Dave posted back in June.  It is now a one time fee of $240 for the pro license, and $120 for each additional computer.  The price for the hobby version is a one time fee of $100.  


Daniel

Daniel,

I too am testing out Sketchlist pro. I am going back through the demo videos today for refresher then back to drawing a project. Something that bugs me is that in the view you drop boards, position, size them etc in the boards are so dark I can't see the joints without greatly magnifying the project. Selecting a lighter material does not seem to affect this view. The photo rendering shows the lighter color. It seems that the contrast between boards and a green selected board in the videos is much greater making the design work easier. Have you noticed the same thing or is it just my computer?

Also, something I attempted to create additional materials like an ash board that measures 4" x 48" x 3/4" but can't figure out how to get the color/texture set (part of the reason I am going to review the videos again today. I use rough lumber from a local mill so I need to be able to create odd demisioned boards for my layout purposes.

Thanks
Jack

Jack,  I have had the problem with seeing the contrast between the boards too.  I've used different monitors.  Different monitors and monitor adapters help quite a bit.  One trick is to use boards with different colors. When placement is done, switch the board back to the color (type) desired.  But in the end, I can't always tell for sure from the image.   To be sure, I check the board "window" (form, info page, not sure of correct term), not the worksheet.  For me, its faster to click on one board, read the board edge in question, then click the other board, read the edge.  They should be the same number.

I also zoom in and out, move the design all around to check design progress, boards in the right place.  This took a couple of minutes practice but now is pretty fast and easy.  They should have a video on this alone but I haven't found it.  I found the direction as a part of another video I can't remember now.  The important parts for me are - Right mouse click and hold down on a board, then move the mouse.  This moves your window around the project.  - use the mouse wheel to zoom the window.  The zoom is centered on the cursor position.  Move the cursor to the point of interest, then turn the mouse wheel.  Oh yes, one more - Left mouse click, hold, and drag the mouse.  This creates a box on the screen.  Release the mouse button and the selected area zooms to fill the window.  Having a mouse with 2 buttons and a wheel is very helpful for the program.

-Gary
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 04:20 PM by Gary L. »

Offline SketchList

  • Posts: 3
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2011, 04:53 PM »
Hello.

I hear you about the colors being tough to see.  In the near future (month? May sooner  - hard to pin a date with software development) we will implement some sort of 'design color' mode that changes board colors to contrast each other.  Before that happens - yes you can change the colors of board manually.  But this is on the list and we will get to it.  Thanks for the feedback.  Dave

Offline Claimdude

  • Posts: 299
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2011, 06:43 PM »
Hello.

I hear you about the colors being tough to see.  In the near future (month? May sooner  - hard to pin a date with software development) we will implement some sort of 'design color' mode that changes board colors to contrast each other.  Before that happens - yes you can change the colors of board manually.  But this is on the list and we will get to it.  Thanks for the feedback.  Dave

Thanks Gary  and Dave for the info. I only have my laptop so can't juggle with different monitors. Honestly, I made aboard with a very light pine color and one with cherry and on my screen I can't see any difference, both very dark. The photo rendering is accurate though. I will keep playing around with it.

Jack

Offline DKurzweil

  • Posts: 165
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2011, 11:49 PM »
Jack,

I have not had any problems with the contrast of the boards.  Without specs of the computer you are running I would not be inclined to make an assumption on what setting may be changeable to help you out. 

As far as creating new materials, here are the steps I use,

1.  Load a project or create a new project
2.  On the menu at the top select "setup", "Application Database Configuration"
3.  Select "material database"
4.  Click "new"
5.  Double click in any field, i.e. Material group, Material type, Grain direction, etc to edit the value.  Some are a drop down menu, others are a fill in
6.  At the moment the color and texture field uses predefined values.  The color can be changed in a similar manner to MS Word, Photoshop, etc.  When I contacted Dave about custom textures he said they are working on a way of uploading custom textures but it is not ready yet.

Hope this helps,
Daniel
 
Addiction includes TS75, OF1010, Domino 500, RO150, T-18 set, CSX, LR-32 set, CT48 and CTMidi

Offline Claimdude

  • Posts: 299
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2011, 09:50 AM »
Jack,

I have not had any problems with the contrast of the boards.  Without specs of the computer you are running I would not be inclined to make an assumption on what setting may be changeable to help you out. 

As far as creating new materials, here are the steps I use,

1.  Load a project or create a new project
2.  On the menu at the top select "setup", "Application Database Configuration"
3.  Select "material database"
4.  Click "new"
5.  Double click in any field, i.e. Material group, Material type, Grain direction, etc to edit the value.  Some are a drop down menu, others are a fill in
6.  At the moment the color and texture field uses predefined values.  The color can be changed in a similar manner to MS Word, Photoshop, etc.  When I contacted Dave about custom textures he said they are working on a way of uploading custom textures but it is not ready yet.

Hope this helps,
Daniel
 


Thanks Daniel! I got materials added to the database and used "white". That results in a medium gray rendering in the design window which is workable. It seems though that if the photo rendering produces accurate colors on my screen that the design window should as well. Hmmmm. Anyway, the program logic is behinning to "click".

Thanks again,
  Jack

Offline steveros

  • Posts: 1
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2016, 03:14 PM »
I feel Sketchlist is excellent software.  But sadly I find the support terrible.  I've been having continual trouble keeping my software validated on my Mac... even recently when I simply upgraded my Mac to the latest operating system.  And whenever I enquire about troubleshooting, I'm accused of trying to scam Sketchlist in some way.  And if you have a drive or logic board replaced in your computer, the software is not only no longer validated, but there's no way to re-validate it beyond re-purchasing the software, else you will be accused of trying to steal another copy of the software.  At this point, Dave (the owner of Sketchlist) will not even give me the courtesy of a reply.  I even had a tech support at Apple write a kind explanation of why I'd legitimately need a new key after they replaced my logic board in my Mac.  It's terrible, paranoid "support".  Currently, I cannot use my paid-for copy of sketchlist, it's crazy, disappointing, and bad business.

Offline TOOLTOWN

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Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2016, 06:22 PM »
I feel Sketchlist is excellent software.  But sadly I find the support terrible.  I've been having continual trouble keeping my software validated on my Mac... even recently when I simply upgraded my Mac to the latest operating system.  And whenever I enquire about troubleshooting, I'm accused of trying to scam Sketchlist in some way.  And if you have a drive or logic board replaced in your computer, the software is not only no longer validated, but there's no way to re-validate it beyond re-purchasing the software, else you will be accused of trying to steal another copy of the software.  At this point, Dave (the owner of Sketchlist) will not even give me the courtesy of a reply.  I even had a tech support at Apple write a kind explanation of why I'd legitimately need a new key after they replaced my logic board in my Mac.  It's terrible, paranoid "support".  Currently, I cannot use my paid-for copy of sketchlist, it's crazy, disappointing, and bad business.

I find this very surprising.  I have moved my software (version 3 and version 4) on multiple occasions from a obsolete computer to a new computer.  After installing the software I send a quick email to Dave.  He usually sends a very courteous replies with a new validation code within 12 hours.  Of course, the new validation code deactivates the old one, rendering the old installation inoperable. 

Point is, my experiences have been top notch!

Ken

Offline Claimdude

  • Posts: 299
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2016, 07:24 PM »
+1 Sketchlist support. I too have been with them through multiple versions (several years) and have always found Dave to be very prompt and helpful.

Jack

Offline xihs

  • Posts: 1
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2017, 04:38 PM »
To steveros  quote on the support from SketchList - I STRONGLY agree with you. They lack the proper support for this product in a Mac environment.  Dave is the entire support team and he doesn't use a Mac and is not fimiliar with the software in that environment. I have install 4 plus build updates only to have them return the same error every time and to remove my existing database file. No software that is an update or patch should ever remove existing data or database files. I've tried to explain this but I think he has limited experience with software ( windows only envs) and doesn't understand the differences in other environments.

Offline Claimdude

  • Posts: 299
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2017, 11:19 PM »
As I mentioned earlier in this thread I have been a Sketchlist user for a longtime. I upgraded to a Dell XPS 15 with 4K resolution and Sketchlist does not play well with it. The menus are all scrunched up. I notified Dave and he check with his programmers then cam back and told me the fix is on the list but would require a major upgrade so wouldn't happen in the near future. I downloaded the most recent update and it got worse and lost my projects (they are on my computer just not recognized by the new version so I will have to re-import them) and will also have to go back to the previous version. Not exactly what I wanted to hear. I saw that Rockler is now carrying the software so maybe if their sales increase things will smooth out. Otherwise I may have to learn Sketchup.

Jack

Offline vk3zn

  • Posts: 1
Re: New Design software - SketchList 3D PRO
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2017, 12:04 AM »
I also have been using it for years   its ok to use if you ever work out how to use it  [sad]
but the new version just released  has removed export to cutlist plus another wonderful program for a cutlist layouts
sadly the one provided to do layouts  is crap  easier to go back to pencil and paper sort of defeats the purpose