Author Topic: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller  (Read 3070 times)

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Offline tazprime38

  • Posts: 247
New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« on: October 16, 2018, 07:53 AM »
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New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller

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Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3217
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2018, 12:54 PM »
Had a play with one over the weekend at the D&M toolshow.

Well thought out machine and you can use standard cam dowels etc with it at a fraction of the price of festool domino connectors, so it's very tempting. Also I havent got an LR32 setup yet so the fact this machine can do shelf pin holes is another bonus.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5060
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2018, 01:28 PM »
Just curious what's different between this one and the earlier version?

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 616
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2018, 03:40 PM »
Had a play with one over the weekend at the D&M toolshow.

Well thought out machine and you can use standard cam dowels etc with it at a fraction of the price of festool domino connectors, so it's very tempting. Also I havent got an LR32 setup yet so the fact this machine can do shelf pin holes is another bonus.

The DuoDoweler is way easier and less error prone than the LR32.

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 214
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2018, 07:20 PM »
The new one looks different and also has some new accessories available.

They have perhaps changed the design of the fence in subtle ways that are hard to describe.  I'd have to examine one up close to say whether they've improved some minor annoyances I have with the design.

Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 80
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2018, 01:58 PM »
Peter Millard posted a video of a demonstration he saw at a trade show. The audio is poor, but you can see easily what it does:
https://youtu.be/Rn0MIRsW9yg?t=253 

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2500
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2018, 06:38 AM »
One of the cool features on this version is the rack and pinion fence adjustment. Also, can drill rows of holes without the template. Cool machine.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 302
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2018, 07:58 AM »
I think this one just jumped to the top of the pile of jointing machines.  The king is dead; long live the king!
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Thistleman

  • Posts: 90
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2018, 08:59 AM »
Picked one of these up at the weekend for drilling shelf pin holes

Already have the original duo doweller as well as Festool LR32 set up but the DDF 40 is so much easier to use

Use the fence to reference from the edge of your panel and index each pair of holes from the previous pair. Once you have set the fence and chosen your start point no more measuring, no guide rails to set or slip. Simplicity in itself

I have only just started to learn the capabilities of this machine but know that I am already quicker drilling holes for shelf pins and suspect I am also more accurate.

Only ‘criticism’ at present is that the machine comes with 6mm and 8mm bits but euro hardware needs 5mm holes and a pair of bits is an extra ~£75. Would have preferred 5mm for shelf pins and 6mm for dowels and forget the 8mm

I don’t think that this will replace my domino for cabinet making but has already become my go to tool for shelf pins
Festool, Mafell and Felder

Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 80
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2018, 01:56 PM »
Only ‘criticism’ at present is that the machine comes with 6mm and 8mm bits but euro hardware needs 5mm holes and a pair of bits is an extra ~£75. Would have preferred 5mm for shelf pins and 6mm for dowels and forget the 8mm
So the drill bits are proprietary/special in some way?

I don’t think that this will replace my domino for cabinet making but has already become my go to tool for shelf pins
Could you expand on why? I own neither a festool domino, nor a mafell ddf40, but may buy one or the other some day. I'd be really interested to know why you wouldn't use the Mafell for cabinets.

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 214
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2018, 02:05 PM »
The bits aren't proprietary but they are an uncommon format.  If memory serves they are 55mm long with 8mm shanks.   They're just boring machine bits but the 10mm format is more common.

I found some inexpensive Italian made ones from a dealer called Routerbitworld.   

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 302
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2018, 05:05 PM »
Doesn't Freud make 'em too?
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2355
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2018, 06:25 PM »
Why would dual dowels be better than Dominos?
Birdhunter

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 214
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2018, 06:58 PM »
Dowels are cheaper and alignment is obviously exact.   Getting perfect flush corners with a Mafell doweler is not as simple as turning on the tool and pushing it into the work though.  In theory it can do it but there's a reason stationary doweling machines use pneumatic clamps to hold the work.  Still, the Mafell doweler is a cool tool and some users prefer it to the Domino machine, at least the smaller one.

Clamping time with dowels can be pretty short too.  Sometimes joints can be hard to close though if the dowels are a little too big or there's too much glue.

I like dowels. I use them often.   It's a tool in your quiver.   Unless you need the angled capacity of the Mafell (and 32mm line boring) a good quality right angle dowel jig can do excellent work.  I have one with a clamp that I think does more reliable flush case corners than the Mafell.

I have an older Hoffman-badged one.  The new one certainly improved but do notice the guy in the demo is using MDF which is real easy to drill and dead flat.  Boring bits don't wander much in MDF or particle board.  They can in ply and solid wood in my experience.

It's a cool tool if you don't have space or the budget for something like a construction boring machine.   It's still cool anyway - I have a construction boring machine and use the Mafell because it's quicker to set up for smaller amounts of holes.  It's also fun to use.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 07:21 PM by lwoirhaye »

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2355
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2018, 09:05 PM »
I’m still at a loss, other than the cost of the Dominos, why the dual dowel machine is better. With the Domino, one can use the narrow/wide technique that facilitates perfect alignment. With dowels, it looks like the hole placement has to be perfect.
Birdhunter

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 214
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2018, 09:43 PM »
I wouldn't say it's better or worse, though some say the build quality on Mafell stuff is a little superior to Festool in general.  It's just another tool with different possibilities.  It may be possible to drill confirmat holes with the Mafell - I haven't tried or looked into it.  The Mafell may work out a bit cheaper than a Domino plus an LR32 setup (I'd consider the Schmitt32 personally if I were looking at a router powered line bore system).


Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 616
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2018, 10:52 AM »
I’m still at a loss, other than the cost of the Dominos, why the dual dowel machine is better. With the Domino, one can use the narrow/wide technique that facilitates perfect alignment. With dowels, it looks like the hole placement has to be perfect.

I purchased a Domino when it was initially available and 2 years ago purchased a Duo Doweler for shelf hole drilling. I have the older model that requires a special template. After using it for a while for joining I sold the Domino. For me there was no difference and I have not had any problems with it. The cost of dowels versus dominos was never a consideration in the purchase. I thought and needed both tools, but decided after use I did not.

US customers only get a one year warranty and no option to return, so that may concern some. I am up to 5 Mafell tools all of which are approaching 3 years of service with no issues.

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 214
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2018, 05:01 PM »
As far as I can tell the only factor that allows the new model to drill lines is a new plastic tab thing with a 32mm offset which for some reason they didn't make for the older model.   The tabs may be backwards compatible. 

Online Svar

  • Posts: 1531
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2018, 05:24 PM »
As far as I can tell the only factor that allows the new model to drill lines is a new plastic tab thing with a 32mm offset which for some reason they didn't make for the older model.   The tabs may be backwards compatible.
I bet you can modify the old model to do the same. An add-on sub-base with a pin at 32 mm offset from the bit. One can do the same for a plunge router too.

This (as well as the new Doweller) presents a cumulative error problem. If your offset tab/pin is even 0.1 mm off, you'll be 1 mm off after 10 plunges (20 holes). The old model, which uses toothed guide rail does not have this issue.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 05:55 PM by Svar »

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 214
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2018, 05:41 PM »
Yeah, I agree with the cumulative error concern and I think that's probably why Mafell didn't make the 32mm offset tab in the older version.   

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3217
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2018, 04:29 AM »
As far as I can tell the only factor that allows the new model to drill lines is a new plastic tab thing with a 32mm offset which for some reason they didn't make for the older model.   The tabs may be backwards compatible.
I bet you can modify the old model to do the same. An add-on sub-base with a pin at 32 mm offset from the bit. One can do the same for a plunge router too.

This (as well as the new Doweller) presents a cumulative error problem. If your offset tab/pin is even 0.1 mm off, you'll be 1 mm off after 10 plunges (20 holes). The old model, which uses toothed guide rail does not have this issue.
I did ask Jens about this as I thought that might be a problem. He showed how you can use the long metal arms to drill the holes further apart then go back and drill in-between using the plastic pin. I'm sure that would lessen accumulative error slightly. I could only tell by actually using this thing for awhile.

Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk


Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 214
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2018, 04:50 PM »
Doesn't Freud make 'em too?

They did. They stopped making it.  Triton makes one, but it allegedly doesn't even come close to the Mafell in terms of precision.   I have doubts as to whether such a tool can be made well below a certain price point.   It's a lot more precise than something like a biscuit joiner where a $100 model works almost as well as a Lamello.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 302
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2018, 05:48 PM »
Doesn't Freud make 'em too?

They did. They stopped making it.  Triton makes one, but it allegedly doesn't even come close to the Mafell in terms of precision.   I have doubts as to whether such a tool can be made well below a certain price point.   It's a lot more precise than something like a biscuit joiner where a $100 model works almost as well as a Lamello.

I'm referring to the bits, not the machines, as per the Q above.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Online Svar

  • Posts: 1531
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2018, 06:00 PM »
Doesn't Freud make 'em too?
They did. They stopped making it.  Triton makes one, but it allegedly doesn't even come close to the Mafell in terms of precision.   I have doubts as to whether such a tool can be made well below a certain price point.   It's a lot more precise than something like a biscuit joiner where a $100 model works almost as well as a Lamello.
I'm referring to the bits, not the machines, as per the Q above.
Well, Triton makes the bits too.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 616
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2018, 09:23 AM »
The templates should work though there are expensive. The tools bottom plate has the same zig zag pattern. Buy the templates and never look back. They are very well-designed.

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 214