Author Topic: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller  (Read 5338 times)

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Offline tazprime38

  • Posts: 247
New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« on: October 16, 2018, 07:53 AM »
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2-6V8dLa-8g" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3218
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2018, 12:54 PM »
Had a play with one over the weekend at the D&M toolshow.

Well thought out machine and you can use standard cam dowels etc with it at a fraction of the price of festool domino connectors, so it's very tempting. Also I havent got an LR32 setup yet so the fact this machine can do shelf pin holes is another bonus.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5171
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2018, 01:28 PM »
Just curious what's different between this one and the earlier version?

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 633
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2018, 03:40 PM »
Had a play with one over the weekend at the D&M toolshow.

Well thought out machine and you can use standard cam dowels etc with it at a fraction of the price of festool domino connectors, so it's very tempting. Also I havent got an LR32 setup yet so the fact this machine can do shelf pin holes is another bonus.

The DuoDoweler is way easier and less error prone than the LR32.

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 236
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2018, 07:20 PM »
The new one looks different and also has some new accessories available.

They have perhaps changed the design of the fence in subtle ways that are hard to describe.  I'd have to examine one up close to say whether they've improved some minor annoyances I have with the design.

Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 91
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2018, 01:58 PM »
Peter Millard posted a video of a demonstration he saw at a trade show. The audio is poor, but you can see easily what it does:
https://youtu.be/Rn0MIRsW9yg?t=253 

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2515
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2018, 06:38 AM »
One of the cool features on this version is the rack and pinion fence adjustment. Also, can drill rows of holes without the template. Cool machine.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 321
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2018, 07:58 AM »
I think this one just jumped to the top of the pile of jointing machines.  The king is dead; long live the king!
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Thistleman

  • Posts: 90
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2018, 08:59 AM »
Picked one of these up at the weekend for drilling shelf pin holes

Already have the original duo doweller as well as Festool LR32 set up but the DDF 40 is so much easier to use

Use the fence to reference from the edge of your panel and index each pair of holes from the previous pair. Once you have set the fence and chosen your start point no more measuring, no guide rails to set or slip. Simplicity in itself

I have only just started to learn the capabilities of this machine but know that I am already quicker drilling holes for shelf pins and suspect I am also more accurate.

Only ‘criticism’ at present is that the machine comes with 6mm and 8mm bits but euro hardware needs 5mm holes and a pair of bits is an extra ~£75. Would have preferred 5mm for shelf pins and 6mm for dowels and forget the 8mm

I don’t think that this will replace my domino for cabinet making but has already become my go to tool for shelf pins
Festool, Mafell and Felder

Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 91
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2018, 01:56 PM »
Only ‘criticism’ at present is that the machine comes with 6mm and 8mm bits but euro hardware needs 5mm holes and a pair of bits is an extra ~£75. Would have preferred 5mm for shelf pins and 6mm for dowels and forget the 8mm
So the drill bits are proprietary/special in some way?

I don’t think that this will replace my domino for cabinet making but has already become my go to tool for shelf pins
Could you expand on why? I own neither a festool domino, nor a mafell ddf40, but may buy one or the other some day. I'd be really interested to know why you wouldn't use the Mafell for cabinets.

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 236
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2018, 02:05 PM »
The bits aren't proprietary but they are an uncommon format.  If memory serves they are 55mm long with 8mm shanks.   They're just boring machine bits but the 10mm format is more common.

I found some inexpensive Italian made ones from a dealer called Routerbitworld.   

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 321
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2018, 05:05 PM »
Doesn't Freud make 'em too?
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2383
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2018, 06:25 PM »
Why would dual dowels be better than Dominos?
Birdhunter

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 236
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2018, 06:58 PM »
Dowels are cheaper and alignment is obviously exact.   Getting perfect flush corners with a Mafell doweler is not as simple as turning on the tool and pushing it into the work though.  In theory it can do it but there's a reason stationary doweling machines use pneumatic clamps to hold the work.  Still, the Mafell doweler is a cool tool and some users prefer it to the Domino machine, at least the smaller one.

Clamping time with dowels can be pretty short too.  Sometimes joints can be hard to close though if the dowels are a little too big or there's too much glue.

I like dowels. I use them often.   It's a tool in your quiver.   Unless you need the angled capacity of the Mafell (and 32mm line boring) a good quality right angle dowel jig can do excellent work.  I have one with a clamp that I think does more reliable flush case corners than the Mafell.

I have an older Hoffman-badged one.  The new one certainly improved but do notice the guy in the demo is using MDF which is real easy to drill and dead flat.  Boring bits don't wander much in MDF or particle board.  They can in ply and solid wood in my experience.

It's a cool tool if you don't have space or the budget for something like a construction boring machine.   It's still cool anyway - I have a construction boring machine and use the Mafell because it's quicker to set up for smaller amounts of holes.  It's also fun to use.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 07:21 PM by lwoirhaye »

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2383
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2018, 09:05 PM »
I’m still at a loss, other than the cost of the Dominos, why the dual dowel machine is better. With the Domino, one can use the narrow/wide technique that facilitates perfect alignment. With dowels, it looks like the hole placement has to be perfect.
Birdhunter

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 236
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2018, 09:43 PM »
I wouldn't say it's better or worse, though some say the build quality on Mafell stuff is a little superior to Festool in general.  It's just another tool with different possibilities.  It may be possible to drill confirmat holes with the Mafell - I haven't tried or looked into it.  The Mafell may work out a bit cheaper than a Domino plus an LR32 setup (I'd consider the Schmitt32 personally if I were looking at a router powered line bore system).


Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 633
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2018, 10:52 AM »
I’m still at a loss, other than the cost of the Dominos, why the dual dowel machine is better. With the Domino, one can use the narrow/wide technique that facilitates perfect alignment. With dowels, it looks like the hole placement has to be perfect.

I purchased a Domino when it was initially available and 2 years ago purchased a Duo Doweler for shelf hole drilling. I have the older model that requires a special template. After using it for a while for joining I sold the Domino. For me there was no difference and I have not had any problems with it. The cost of dowels versus dominos was never a consideration in the purchase. I thought and needed both tools, but decided after use I did not.

US customers only get a one year warranty and no option to return, so that may concern some. I am up to 5 Mafell tools all of which are approaching 3 years of service with no issues.

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 236
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2018, 05:01 PM »
As far as I can tell the only factor that allows the new model to drill lines is a new plastic tab thing with a 32mm offset which for some reason they didn't make for the older model.   The tabs may be backwards compatible. 

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1565
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2018, 05:24 PM »
As far as I can tell the only factor that allows the new model to drill lines is a new plastic tab thing with a 32mm offset which for some reason they didn't make for the older model.   The tabs may be backwards compatible.
I bet you can modify the old model to do the same. An add-on sub-base with a pin at 32 mm offset from the bit. One can do the same for a plunge router too.

This (as well as the new Doweller) presents a cumulative error problem. If your offset tab/pin is even 0.1 mm off, you'll be 1 mm off after 10 plunges (20 holes). The old model, which uses toothed guide rail does not have this issue.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 05:55 PM by Svar »

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 236
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2018, 05:41 PM »
Yeah, I agree with the cumulative error concern and I think that's probably why Mafell didn't make the 32mm offset tab in the older version.   

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3218
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2018, 04:29 AM »
As far as I can tell the only factor that allows the new model to drill lines is a new plastic tab thing with a 32mm offset which for some reason they didn't make for the older model.   The tabs may be backwards compatible.
I bet you can modify the old model to do the same. An add-on sub-base with a pin at 32 mm offset from the bit. One can do the same for a plunge router too.

This (as well as the new Doweller) presents a cumulative error problem. If your offset tab/pin is even 0.1 mm off, you'll be 1 mm off after 10 plunges (20 holes). The old model, which uses toothed guide rail does not have this issue.
I did ask Jens about this as I thought that might be a problem. He showed how you can use the long metal arms to drill the holes further apart then go back and drill in-between using the plastic pin. I'm sure that would lessen accumulative error slightly. I could only tell by actually using this thing for awhile.

Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk


Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 236
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2018, 04:50 PM »
Doesn't Freud make 'em too?

They did. They stopped making it.  Triton makes one, but it allegedly doesn't even come close to the Mafell in terms of precision.   I have doubts as to whether such a tool can be made well below a certain price point.   It's a lot more precise than something like a biscuit joiner where a $100 model works almost as well as a Lamello.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 321
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2018, 05:48 PM »
Doesn't Freud make 'em too?

They did. They stopped making it.  Triton makes one, but it allegedly doesn't even come close to the Mafell in terms of precision.   I have doubts as to whether such a tool can be made well below a certain price point.   It's a lot more precise than something like a biscuit joiner where a $100 model works almost as well as a Lamello.

I'm referring to the bits, not the machines, as per the Q above.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1565
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2018, 06:00 PM »
Doesn't Freud make 'em too?
They did. They stopped making it.  Triton makes one, but it allegedly doesn't even come close to the Mafell in terms of precision.   I have doubts as to whether such a tool can be made well below a certain price point.   It's a lot more precise than something like a biscuit joiner where a $100 model works almost as well as a Lamello.
I'm referring to the bits, not the machines, as per the Q above.
Well, Triton makes the bits too.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 633
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2018, 09:23 AM »
The templates should work though there are expensive. The tools bottom plate has the same zig zag pattern. Buy the templates and never look back. They are very well-designed.

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 236

Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2018, 12:50 PM »
Got me the DDF 40 yesterday.



Very well built unit for sure and I look forward to using it tomorrow or perhaps saturday on a project. Got the kit with most, if not all the add ons including the template adapter and the side extension. A colleague has the template rails so I won't get any myself.

It is down to 800 rpm from the previous G model (18000!!!) and the P (13500) but 8000 rpm is still very fast drilling and I think the bits might last longer too. Initial thoughts are: very well made, bulkier than the DD40G but overall good balance.

Will see how it operates during the next couple of days, it will give the Domino a run for the money for sure!
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline neeleman

  • Posts: 1210
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2018, 02:11 PM »
You're certainly a Plug-it Fan!
I assume Mafell didn't deliver the DDF 40 with the Plug-it tail?
Festoolian since 1998.
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Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3218
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2018, 04:49 PM »
Got me the DDF 40 yesterday.



Very well built unit for sure and I look forward to using it tomorrow or perhaps saturday on a project. Got the kit with most, if not all the add ons including the template adapter and the side extension. A colleague has the template rails so I won't get any myself.

It is down to 800 rpm from the previous G model (18000!!!) and the P (13500) but 8000 rpm is still very fast drilling and I think the bits might last longer too. Initial thoughts are: very well made, bulkier than the DD40G but overall good balance.

Will see how it operates during the next couple of days, it will give the Domino a run for the money for sure!

I'm getting a demo one to try out tomorrow.  While i wait for mine

Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2018, 05:27 PM »
I have now used it for a full day and I will post a mini review with initial impressions tomorrow after my second day in the shop with the DDF 40. So far so good but there are some things I am not overly impressed with. 

Might snap some photos while I am at it.

/ Henrik

PS

Yes, I am a bonafied Plug-It fan! Considering how few corded machines I have left nowadays I am glad to have them all fitted with the Plug-it system for convenience. Still bugs me that I can't do it with the Mirka sander...
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 321
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2018, 08:16 PM »
Yes, I am a bonafied Plug-It fan! Considering how few corded machines I have left nowadays I am glad to have them all fitted with the Plug-it system for convenience. Still bugs me that I can't do it with the Mirka sander...

You could always try an alternative labelled sander with Mirka's motor & mechanism:  Sumake, Rupes, Carsystem, Delmeq or Indasa.  All these have fixed cabling systems.  Only Mirka & Metabo seem to share their own proprietory plug-it cabling.  Alternatively, you could always ditch both the Mirka & Tooltechnic plug-it tools & just buy fixed cable machines & install your own system instead.  Some are apparently pretty reliable, giving reputedly more glitch-free performance than the abovementioned two.  Festool once offered a proper fixed cable alternative, but I haven't seen any in their current catalogues for a few years.

For what it's worth, I've sampled an assortment of plug-it systems from not just Festool & Mirka, but also B&D, Elu, Kango, Atlas Copco, Milwaukee & Eisenblaetter over the years (30 odd?) with nary an issue ever.  But I don't ever exchange cables between tools.  To me it's a waste of my time, in Mirka/Metabo's case difficult to accomplish with a vac hose installed, and all but guaranteed to increase the incidence of bad connection through repetition.  Every required tool remains plugged into a power board on or near the vac.  I just exchange vac hoses as required.

I also noticed recently that Mirka now offer a rewirable plug-it female plug, thus negating the potential expense of cable replacement.

More important to me is the current prevalence of poly-vinyl chloride power tool cabling.  It's cheap, nasty, occasionally unsafe & in many ways & instances unsuited for some of the tools to which it's installed.  Thankfully, the very best tool companies still incorporate rubber sheathing & high-purity microstranded copper flex on their premium tools.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 02:59 AM by aloysius »
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2018, 02:42 AM »
Most of the corded tools I've kept have their own Plug-it cable attached to it in the Systainer. A few of them I don't use that often but travel together so they get to share a cable on site.

In the shop switching cables is unfortunately a necessity since I have a cable attached to the shop vac hose and that is getting quite a workout some days, switching between two/three machines at times. I do have the OFK500 on a separate cord since I don't use a vac for it so that keeps the switching down some for me.

I have yet to wear out a cable or fitting though my ETS EC 150 sander broke down just shy of the warranty going out, the machine end connector being the culprit. I think. I will never know as Festool misplaced the sander in house and I got a new one eventually, but no thanks to Festool. There was a small popping noise when attaching the cable so I think the ETS EC 150 shorted out due to something broken on the machine end. Cable was fine and fairly new and no other tools were affected. 

 I am keeping an eye on things and I am aware of the potential problems. As long as it is just a matter of replacing a cable I am fine with that though I hope I don't have to.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline mcooley

  • Posts: 220
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2018, 08:22 AM »
For the price the plug-it seems like it needs to be reworked. My Domino 500 connector pin sheared clean off inside the socket and the Festool tech said it was probably a worn out Plug-it cord etc. You have to be sure the cord is turned all the way and doesn't loosen over time. Otherwise, it can introduce play and strain the connectors in the socket. I keep wondering what other Festool tool will do this next? I purchased a new plug-it cord since the metal pin was jammed inside it but as for the other cords no way can I afford to buy all new ones. At least like many people I only use a couple cords regularly. Who has ever heard of a $50 cord anyhow? Crazy. I mean the plug isn't exactly high tech and the fact you can't take it apart or repair it is more or less planned obsolescence. As a separate note the other end of the cord is just as unreliable by loosely fitting in the outlet which is completely contradictory to the whole premise of the system, no?   

Offline mcooley

  • Posts: 220
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2018, 08:27 AM »
One more note about the new Mafell. Maybe Festool will now finally step up on the ergonomics. I know they like the minimalist thing but the fact your hand has no definite place to grip the machine is something they need to fix. The Mafell at least tries. I have yet to handle one but I assume it feels more stable than the DF 500.   

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 236
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2018, 08:36 AM »
I think I push on the "butt" of the tool with my older duo-doweller much of the time.  Plunging into hardwoods requires some pressure.   Stuff like MDF plunges easily and alignment is more consistent.  I mentioned elsewhere that stationary dowel drills use clamp downs which the Mafell lacks.   It may be an acceptable compromise but from part to part the clamped parts are likely to come in with tighter tolerances.

Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2018, 03:45 PM »
A very brief write up on the topic (I have a longer version on the MUF though I am not sure linking is appreciated by the mod's):

The machine is bulkier.
But, the ergonomics are improved and the on/off switch is way better (if it lasts!) and overall balance is great.

Plunge speed is slower than the Domino DF500 and a little slower than the DD40G with 8mm bits. I find I have to use more force - despite the better ergonomics - to complete a plunge with the DDF 40.

My DDF40 was the MaxiMax version - all goodies included.

However they did not ship my unit with a plunge depth scale  [crying] which I realized early on in the thread on the MUF as I complained about having to measure up the depth of cut manually from the bits and another user wrote about the "scale on the side of the machine" - which turned out to be missing on my unit!  [big grin]

(The dealership has ordered up the spare part today...)

Being well familiar with the plunge action of the DD40G and Domino DF500 (and 700) I agree that the butt end grip works best. For the Domino I equipped it with a "D" handle sort of like the XL700 which has significantly improved plunge action and ergonomics on my DF500.

But I digress... 

...the DDF is slower to plunge, the depth scale was missing and the depth stop is mushy, the plastic tabs give a little when you reach the end of the plunge. It feels a bit cheap and makes it a little harder to know when you are done. On better quality MDF the DDF40 slows a little midplunge and requires more force to complete the plunge despite having better ergonomics. I tried various grips but decided the butt end is still the best and more comfortable than the DD40G and the Domino.

Despite all that the machine is a joy to register against the work piece and to work with, precision is excellent and with less slop than the Domino (for better or worse!)

Everything assembled has a snug fit with no play but without having to use excessive force to put it together. This is stellar performance and definitively outweighs the nitpicks - which still are annoying, I have to say.

The accessories are very well made and the alu adapter for the template rail works as a lateral support for surface plunging (perpendicular to the material). However my adapter did work itself a bit loose - twice - after a series of plunges so it is something I will have to keep an eye on. I did tighten it up I am sure and after the second time it worked one side a bit loose I was sure I wasn't imagining things, but with some mdf dirt and grime in there it will probably not unwind further down the line. ;)

It is surely not a Domino replacement but it will take a heavy toll on my Domino usage. Still, the Domino does things that are unique to it and has given me some good solutions for furniture making so mine is a definite keeper but I do appreciate the updated Duo Doweller as it has taken the older DD40G/P to the next level and made it as simple to use as the Domino has always been.

The DDF40 can also register on the inside side of cabinets which is nice - though the vac hose adapter has to be removed for the right side - and this came in handy for me today. 

If you are into the DDF I think it makes sense to get the MaxiMax with the goodies as it does expand the possibilities. Stocking up on Dowels is cheap too! :)

For anyone contemplating either the Domino OR the DDF 40 I am not sure which to recommend over the other.
As it stands today I think I would go for the DDF40 for cost over time, ease of use and the ease of finding and stocking up on dowels though I am very happy with my Domino. The DDF40 can do a few things related to cabinet building the Domino simply can't so if one is on a limited budget the DDF40 has a few key advantages.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 04:00 PM by Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits »
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2018, 03:53 PM »
I think I push on the "butt" of the tool with my older duo-doweller much of the time.  Plunging into hardwoods requires some pressure.   Stuff like MDF plunges easily and alignment is more consistent.  I mentioned elsewhere that stationary dowel drills use clamp downs which the Mafell lacks.   It may be an acceptable compromise but from part to part the clamped parts are likely to come in with tighter tolerances.

I fully agree with this. On MDF on the upper scale of the density range the DDF40 is a bit slower in use though. Still not too slow but a few plunges in MDF required more force than I expected. The Domino digs in differently and is not a fair comparison but is faster for sure. It is worth the extra effort for the extra precision though the "slop" in the Domino mortises are sometimes very beneficial for assembly.  There is not much wiggle room with the DDF40 but so far all pieces have come together just square, snug and perfect. Unglued MDF boxes are surprisingly stable.

Except for questionable QC at Mafell in recent years  (for me personally; issues with three out of six NEW machines ordered and a fourth one giving up the ghost which takes the total up to FOUR out of six purchases requiring warranty repairs...  ) I do think the DDF40 is a great upgrade to the DD40G and a worthy addition to any a workshop in need of a intuititive, hand held jointer.

To be fair I will mention that other people who have tried the new DDF40 have mixed results with plunge speed with the 8mm bits in MDF. At least one person finds it fast in plunge operation and YMMV but I find it a bit on the slow side. Slow, but precise.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 04:03 PM by Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits »
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2018, 04:10 PM »
As far as I can tell the only factor that allows the new model to drill lines is a new plastic tab thing with a 32mm offset which for some reason they didn't make for the older model.   The tabs may be backwards compatible.

There is a sturdy adapter for the Mafell LR32 template rails included in the MaxiMax kit and available as an accessory. "Auxilliary rest ZA".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=Cj600bEjvqY


The tabs are not backwards compatible with the older model. There is a slight difference in the machining of the base plate receptacle. We did try fitting the new tabs to the older model.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 04:12 PM by Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits »
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #38 on: Yesterday at 03:48 PM »
Quick update: machine runs nicely.

It is not as forgiving as the Domino when it comes to placement/doweling and subsequent assembly.  After a few boxes with internal chambers done with both side by side it is hard to pick a winner - but for me I actually prefer the Domino, it plunges faster, is more forgiving and the end result is pretty much the same.

I say pretty much as the DDF 40 is capable of higher precision and is not very forgiving if you freebase it. Parts will come together and align perfectly or almost not at all. If any piece is out a fraction for any reason it might give you problems fitting it together.

I am not saying I am sloppy with the technique but the DF500 has some advantages for on the fly work whereas the DDF40 can do a little more than "just" dowelling pieces together. :)
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 236
Re: New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller
« Reply #39 on: Yesterday at 08:21 PM »
I intend to get some oversized 8mm bits for mine... or make a dowel plate for the dowels I have.  It's not that I have a problem with not drilling the holes accurately, just that when the glue is in and I'm putting things together it can be a little difficult.