Author Topic: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw  (Read 38146 times)

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Offline neeleman

  • Posts: 1169
New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« on: March 11, 2016, 03:01 PM »
In Europe Metabo has released a new Sliding Compound Mitre Saw: KGSV 72 Xact SYM.
It's a mix (copy) of the Kapex and Symmetric (NAINA).
Looks very nice to me. Have a look at the video and you'll understand.
I think Metabo recently is designing some good stuff.
Maybe it will be my second supplier of (battery powered) tools.


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Offline waho6o9

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2016, 03:17 PM »
Impressive 

Offline Nigel

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2016, 03:20 PM »
  The Kapex is dead......

Offline Holmz

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2016, 03:32 PM »
If it is as good as my drill, then it should be great.

Offline Davej

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2016, 03:40 PM »
Looks very good. Might have to sell my 254 plus and buy this
I dont mind growing old but i refuse to grow up

Offline bobfog

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2016, 03:55 PM »
Looks very nice! Price dependent, could be a massive competitor/solution to the Kapex.

Offline Davej

  • Posts: 630
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2016, 03:58 PM »
 it could be the holy grail of scms.
I dont mind growing old but i refuse to grow up

Offline overanalyze

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2016, 05:05 PM »
That is pretty cool. I wonder if this will land in the U.S.

Offline Lemwise

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2016, 05:31 PM »
Metabo isn't really thought of as pro gear in The Netherlands and when I need a tool it certainly isn't a brand that I would consider. For some reason it has a very distinct DIY image. This saw however looks very nice indeed.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5433
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2016, 05:41 PM »
That looks like a very nice saw. But what a blatant copy of the Kapex and the Symmetric. Not that I'm against copying, not at all, it will only lead to more innovation, but they should send Festool a fruit basket or a gift certificate or something like that .....

Offline tms0425

  • Posts: 99
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2016, 05:42 PM »
Very impressive, if it has durability to match. May be time to sell my Kapex while it still runs [unsure]

Any idea on the price point?

Offline mastercabman

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2016, 05:43 PM »
40 lbs?   Yeah I want it!!!!!
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline Holmz

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2016, 05:52 PM »
That looks like a very nice saw. But what a blatant copy of the Kapex and the Symmetric. Not that I'm against copying, not at all, it will only lead to more innovation, but they should send Festool a fruit basket or a gift certificate or something like that .....

Hopefully they left out the motor failure mode.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2544
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2016, 05:55 PM »
Metabo isn't really thought of as pro gear in The Netherlands and when I need a tool it certainly isn't a brand that I would consider. For some reason it has a very distinct DIY image. This saw however looks very nice indeed.

Don't know where you get this idea, because it isn't true at all. Metabo is well respected as a pro brand here.

And Metabo certainly is generally considered Pro down here too. You do not find it in the Big chain Hardware Stores frequented by DIYs here.

Re this new Metabo Saw, so far I am very impressed, except the fence casting (or is it stamped)  to me looks thinner than I would have expected. Also, is this saw Chinese or German built? Metabo have their own manufacturing plants both in Germany and China.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 07:14 PM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
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Offline Lemwise

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2016, 06:03 PM »
Calm down guys, no need to get offended. Let me put it this way, in my line of work it isn't considered a pro brand.

Offline bobfog

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2016, 06:08 PM »
Calm down guys, no need to get offended. Let me put it this way, in my line of work it isn't considered a pro brand.

What line of work are you in? Metabo are professional power tools by any measure, ergo if they're not considered pro quality in your line of work, your line of work must not require professional power tools!

Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2016, 06:11 PM »
Calm down guys, no need to get offended. Let me put it this way, in my line of work it isn't considered a pro brand.

I  don't think are a pro brand in the uk. they used to sell rebadged lurem before they went bust but I don't know what they made themselves if anything

things do seem to have changed, maybe some new cash has been injected
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline rizzoa13

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2016, 06:13 PM »
That is such rediculously perfect timing. Im going to look into importing that thing right now.

Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 250
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2016, 06:15 PM »
What line of work are you in? Metabo are professional power tools by any measure, ergo if they're not considered pro quality in your line of work, your line of work must not require professional power tools!
I'm a joiner and I've worked on shipyards for the past 16 years. I work with wood and power tools every single day. Pro enough for you?

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2544
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2016, 06:19 PM »
Those wondering about the history, size and background of Metabo may wish to read -
http://www.metabo.com.au/History.31121.0.html
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Jak147

  • Posts: 113
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2016, 06:22 PM »
Wow looks like some Festool patents may have expired!!

I'm afraid I have to agree with lemwise on this one. While metabo are no way in the black and decker category of tools, I don't think they are trade rated either. Certainly not site rated the way dewalt or Makita are and the kit lacks the fineness of Festool.

I have very little actual hands on experience with them so could be completely wrong but it's just not a brand that I would consider if looking for a new toy.

 

Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 822
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2016, 06:24 PM »
What line of work are you in? Metabo are professional power tools by any measure, ergo if they're not considered pro quality in your line of work, your line of work must not require professional power tools!
I'm a joiner and I've worked on shipyards for the past 16 years. I work with wood and power tools every single day. Pro enough for you?

I wasn't actually questioning your profession, it was a thinly veiled dig at the fact you're opinion of Metabo is clearly erroneous. But you obviously missed that.

I have in my tool collection Festool, Makita, Hitachi, Dewalt, Milwaukee, AEG, Metabo, Bosch, Mafell, Fein and more. Metabo is absolutely far nearer the top in terms of quality than the bottom.

Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2016, 06:28 PM »
I had no idea they were german, I had not given it any thought, I did think the router they used to sell of808? was made by another company.
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 541
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2016, 06:28 PM »
Yea I'll have to agree. Metabo is some serious kit in these woods. Most metabo stuff in the US is for metal working pros. I've got some of the woodworking stuff and it's much more solidly built than a certain brand.

Offline Brandon

  • Posts: 209
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2016, 06:31 PM »
I'd like to get my hands on that here in the US. I've been looking to replace my Kapex in a fear of a second motor failure. I have a Bosch also but it is getter older and also weighs a half a million pounds.
And, I agree with others that Metabo can produce top quality tools. I have had to replace both my top and bottom trim routers in my Holzher edgebander and both came direct from Holzher and they are Metabo. $1,200 a piece though so they'd better be good.

Offline Brandon

  • Posts: 209
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2016, 06:35 PM »
That is such rediculously perfect timing. Im going to look into importing that thing right now.
If you find a way to import one please let me know

Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2016, 06:40 PM »
What did bowl me over was learning a few days ago that mafell drills are made by metabo
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 822
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2016, 06:43 PM »
What did bowl me over was learning a few days ago that mafell drills are made by metabo

Exactly. It's a big statement when a company like Mafell, whose quality/reputation is the yardstick for power tools across the world, trust Metabo enough to put their name on their drills. Not bad for a company who apparently aren't considered "pro", well at least not in shipyards...

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 541
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2016, 07:01 PM »
I have the metabo version of those drills and they're the best drills I've ever touched.

Offline Lemwise

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2016, 07:03 PM »
I have the metabo version of those drills and they're the best drills I've ever touched.
That could also mean you haven't touched a lot of drills [tongue]

Online #Tee

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2016, 07:21 PM »
very cool! the dust shroud looks like it can benefit from a wider larger shoot. by the looks of it right now it appears as tho dust just flies right past it.
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

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Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Untidy Shop

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2016, 07:58 PM »
Another image -


If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
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Offline Rip Van Winkle

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2016, 08:01 PM »
As Far as what is considered a "pro" or "industrial" tool and what isn't it's somerimes hard to judge. When a lot of the imported European power tool brands started becoming more popular in rhe USA one of the US woodworking magazines did an article on some of the brands. I remember thr article mentioned Fein and Lamello as being listed as "Industrially" rated whereas Festool and Metabo supposedly weren't. I don't know why those brands where considered Industrially rated.

Fein built safety electronics into most of the tools at the time so I figured this might have had something to do with it.  Metabo manufactures/manufactured some lighter built tools that seem more geared towards non professional rather than professional use, similar to the green Bosch tools, although I'm sure some professionals also use them.

Black and Decker used to make heavy duty industrial tools under there own name up until maybe ten or fifteen years ago. Many of the same models are still manufactured by them under the Dewalt brand.

When I started out in woodworking I thought of Makita as a slightly cheaper off brand, yet at the same time Makita was manufacturing heavy all metal tools for industrial use, as well as other tools aimed at a similar market to Mafell. Even now, Makita manufacyures more robust tools for professional use, many of which are made in Japan, europe, or possibly the USA, along with lower cost tools for Home Depot that tend to be made in China, and then they have their Maktec line of tools that I think are supposed to compete with Harbor Freight.

Offline Untidy Shop

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2016, 08:57 PM »




« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 06:34 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Holmz

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2016, 08:59 PM »
I have the metabo version of those drills and they're the best drills I've ever touched.
That could also mean you haven't touched a lot of drills [tongue]

I've touched that drill a bit.

Offline DB10

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2016, 09:26 PM »
Metabo isn't really thought of as pro gear in The Netherlands and when I need a tool it certainly isn't a brand that I would consider. For some reason it has a very distinct DIY image. This saw however looks very nice indeed.

 That's your opinion and your entitled to it.
 My opinion which i'm also entitled to is from my own experience.
And I'd have to say that Metabo are in the same league as Makita and Dewalt, which makes them very popular with trade pros.
 I used to use Metabo tools 10 - 15 years ago in the UK and they were very highly thought of tools within the carpentry business, they just didn't have the same range of cordless tools as Makita back then, things have changed now and Metabo have made massive in roads down here in Australia especially with their cordless range.
 Due to Festools ever increasing prices and their recent decision to alienate Australian customers, we started to look for alterniteves and now evaluate Metabo's equivalent tools and stand alone tools before any new purchase is made.
 In the last year I have made five new Metabo purchases and am pleased with each one especially their cordless 216 mitre saw, which now gets as much use or more than the Kapex due to it's portability.

Offline Kev

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2016, 10:54 PM »
Metabo are very highly respected in the metal finishing industry and have a growing reputation in timber construction.

One thing that hasn't served them well is the green tool body that confuses a lot of people when they think of green Bosch.

That SCMS is the evolution of their current crop of budget SCMS's that seem to mostly come out of China. A lot of the design detail is evident in the little (and absolutely excellent) cordless Metabo SCMS I acquired late last year.

That new fence mechanism looks quite nice - it's yet to be determined if it is highly accurate .. though it certainly looks promising.

The video showed the with/without DC - it won't be the KAPEX grade DC the dual vac port higher end Metabo SCMS's offer, but I still think it'll be pretty good.

Metabo is leading cordless too battery tech with their LIHD development and the "merge" with Hitachi could be the beginning of some very interesting disruption in the power tool industry.

Offline MGB

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2016, 12:36 AM »
Interesting

The bi-fold fence to me seems like an ok idea if you're doing alot of furniture/joinery perhaps. You wouldn't want to cut anything longer than 2' unsupported like that. Also seems like a good way to complicate having an accurate tool.

It does look quite gimicky/diy oriented, with the crapload of plastic knobs.

Still, I'd like to try one. Seems like a decent design, I've never handled a metabo anything so I have no idea what they're all about.

Offline Alex

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2016, 03:45 AM »
I have my doubts about the long term performance of the adjustable fence though. When you have a lot of moving parts they tend to get wobbly and imprecise after a while. You'd need a very robust mechanism to counter that.

I've seen how it works on the Festool Symmetric saw, which is a far less complicated saw than this Metabo. And Festool only markets it as a plinth saw, not a general saw for the more precise and complicated joinery jobs.

Offline mrB

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2016, 06:17 AM »
Wowza!! This saw looks like it could be awesome.

What's the price and where/when can we get one?
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline jobsworth

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2016, 06:19 AM »
What line of work are you in? Metabo are professional power tools by any measure, ergo if they're not considered pro quality in your line of work, your line of work must not require professional power tools!
I'm a joiner and I've worked on shipyards for the past 16 years. I work with wood and power tools every single day. Pro enough for you?

I wasn't actually questioning your profession, it was a thinly veiled dig at the fact you're opinion of Metabo is clearly erroneous. But you obviously missed that.

I have in my tool collection Festool, Makita, Hitachi, Dewalt, Milwaukee, AEG, Metabo, Bosch, Mafell, Fein and more. Metabo is absolutely far nearer the top in terms of quality than the bottom.


How about posting some photos of your work.

He has and it's beautiful ..for a shipwright
Loving the Calif sun....

Offline Nigel

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2016, 06:29 AM »
  It isn't a Kapex copy  I remember seeing a cheapo saw way back before the Kapex that had front sliders. Symetric fence, yes I reckon it's a Festool copy. As for being pro or not it's difficult to tell. Metabo used to be 100% pro but started to make cheaper Chinese stuff a few years back so could be either. It would be nice to see a different colour approach like Bosch. Anyone found any prices?

Offline neeleman

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2016, 07:40 AM »
No exact prices yet, but it will be between €600-800.
Will be available from June 2016.

BTW.
The Symmetric is not a Festool design.
When TTS took over the handtools from HolzHer in 2000 they also got the Symmetric 2141.
The design has been unchanged since then and is probably more then 30 years old now.
Festoolian since 1998.
FESTOOL:
SYSROCK BR10 | SYSLITE KAL II | SV-SYS D14 | DSC-AG125FH | CDD9.6 | SYSLITE DUO | DF700 | HKC55 | TXS2.6 | CTL SYS | CXS2.6 | DWC18 | CTWings | BHC18 | CS50 | CMS-OF | MFT/3 | MFT/3-VL | KS120 | TS55 R | PSC420 | PS420 | BS75 | RAS115 | RO90 | RO150 | DTS400 | RS400 | RTS400 | RS300 | LS130 | DX93 | ETS150/5 | ETS150/3 | OF1010 | OF1400 | OFK500 | MFK700 | T18 | EHL65 | CTL26 | CTL22 | CTL MIDI | WCR1000 | D27-AS Plug-it | D36 UNI-RS | D36x7 | D50x2.5 | FS800 | FS800/2 | FS1080/2 | FS1400/2 (2x) | FS3000/2 | FSK250 | FSK420 | Gecko Dosh | Toolie | CE-SYS-2010 | RB-SYS CART (2x) | LEV1400 | LEV350 | SYS-MFT
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Offline Nigel

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2016, 08:17 AM »
Thanks for the info neelman. Price ain't too bad. Now - do you know if it's Chinese or German?

Offline justinh

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2016, 09:53 AM »
Interesting

The bi-fold fence to me seems like an ok idea if you're doing alot of furniture/joinery perhaps. You wouldn't want to cut anything longer than 2' unsupported like that. Also seems like a good way to complicate having an accurate tool.

It does look quite gimicky/diy oriented, with the crapload of plastic knobs.

Still, I'd like to try one. Seems like a decent design, I've never handled a metabo anything so I have no idea what they're all about.

Agreed.  The more complicated the mechanisms and the more moving parts something has the greater the chance for something to be off or go out tolerance over time.  Simplicity is something that I look for in tools.  Simple designs tend to be more accurate and durable over time.  For what it's worth the "relative complexity" of the Kapex was one of the reasons that Festool cited as the reason for a higher than average repair rate.

The angle bisecting fences appear like a neat idea at first glance but when you figure that they are going to need to be dead parallel to each other and square to the blade for most applications the extra layers of complexity are working against the tool being or remaining accurate and precise.

Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #45 on: March 12, 2016, 09:56 AM »
No exact prices yet, but it will be between €600-800.
Will be available from June 2016.

BTW.
The Symmetric is not a Festool design.
When TTS took over the handtools from HolzHer in 2000 they also got the Symmetric 2141.
The design has been unchanged since then and is probably more then 30 years old now.



....a few minor changes to the base design but basically the same machine. The 850 also came in from them as well
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #46 on: March 12, 2016, 10:44 AM »
Has anyone figured out how to get this saw in the US? I could probably justify the space for it in the little shop.

RMW
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Offline demographic

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #47 on: March 12, 2016, 12:05 PM »
That fancy fence looks great right upto the point when you are feeding a decent length of wood into it.

Offline Kev

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #48 on: March 12, 2016, 05:15 PM »
That fancy fence looks great right upto the point when you are feeding a decent length of wood into it.

If you were dealing with long timber you'd use the SCMS in the "traditional manner". You'd engage the symmetrical fence if you were cutting pieces that were more reasonable (say  picture frame length) in size ... regardless of any promos that show otherwise, which is probably more to showcase the feature.

To properly challenge the KAPEX, Metabo would also need to copy the UG cart and extensions. To this day I'm still amazed that somebody hasn't developed something "universal" like the UG setup.

Offline rizzoa13

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #49 on: March 12, 2016, 06:04 PM »
Richard- it's not released yet, people are saying around June. My Germans non existant so I have no clue if that's true. When it is released there's are a few places you couple import it from in Germany or the UK. Shoot me a pm of you want contacts.

Offline VaDimZH

  • Posts: 173
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #50 on: March 13, 2016, 01:09 AM »
Guys! I wanna say,the best saw is "fixed" saw,like it or don't like it doesn't mater.
I recently purchased Dewalt 10" DW713  Miter Saw,and its absolutely almost perfectly!
Just minor adjustments and its perfectly accurate!
And believe or not,its for $219.00 !!! from Home Depot !  [eek]
Paying $1450 +/- fro Kapex,or whatever...Metabo or some other expensive stuff....looks like crazy O V E R P R I C E D !!!
$1,450 FOR WHAT !!!
For a TONNE .... design mistake and failure ?!?
No! Thank you!
I better stay with my trusty DeWALT !!!
For so many years (just sold my DW713 for my friend,because he really need it and not going to spend a lot of money) my DW713  HAS NEVER HAVE ANY PROBLEMS !!!
NOT A SINGLE!
And its from 2002, 14 years and still working,without any single problems!!!
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 01:12 AM by VaDimZH »

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7603
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #51 on: March 13, 2016, 01:43 AM »
Guys! I wanna say,the best saw is "fixed" saw,like it or don't like it doesn't mater.
I recently purchased Dewalt 10" DW713  Miter Saw,and its absolutely almost perfectly!
Just minor adjustments and its perfectly accurate!
And believe or not,its for $219.00 !!! from Home Depot !  [eek]
Paying $1450 +/- fro Kapex,or whatever...Metabo or some other expensive stuff....looks like crazy O V E R P R I C E D !!!
$1,450 FOR WHAT !!!
For a TONNE .... design mistake and failure ?!?
No! Thank you!
I better stay with my trusty DeWALT !!!
For so many years (just sold my DW713 for my friend,because he really need it and not going to spend a lot of money) my DW713  HAS NEVER HAVE ANY PROBLEMS !!!
NOT A SINGLE!
And its from 2002, 14 years and still working,without any single problems!!!

@VaDimZH

So you're talking about a drop saw. They're different - very different. I can comprehend that you have a strong opinion on this, but please don't confuse the issue. In your context I would paraphrase that you think sliding compound mitre saws are more complicated and for your needs a drop saw does the trick.

If I'm wrong, tell me how you mitre cut a compound angle on a 250mm board with your drop saw [wink]

Offline Green Koolaide

  • Posts: 104
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #52 on: March 13, 2016, 03:27 AM »
Take my money..... Take my money....
"Five out of every four people have problems with fractions"

Offline VaDimZH

  • Posts: 173
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #53 on: March 13, 2016, 03:31 AM »
Guys! I wanna say,the best saw is "fixed" saw,like it or don't like it doesn't mater.
I recently purchased Dewalt 10" DW713  Miter Saw,and its absolutely almost perfectly!
Just minor adjustments and its perfectly accurate!
And believe or not,its for $219.00 !!! from Home Depot !  [eek]
Paying $1450 +/- fro Kapex,or whatever...Metabo or some other expensive stuff....looks like crazy O V E R P R I C E D !!!
$1,450 FOR WHAT !!!
For a TONNE .... design mistake and failure ?!?
No! Thank you!
I better stay with my trusty DeWALT !!!
For so many years (just sold my DW713 for my friend,because he really need it and not going to spend a lot of money) my DW713  HAS NEVER HAVE ANY PROBLEMS !!!
NOT A SINGLE!
And its from 2002, 14 years and still working,without any single problems!!!

@VaDimZH

So you're talking about a drop saw. They're different - very different. I can comprehend that you have a strong opinion on this, but please don't confuse the issue. In your context I would paraphrase that you think sliding compound mitre saws are more complicated and for your needs a drop saw does the trick.

If I'm wrong, tell me how you mitre cut a compound angle on a 250mm board with your drop saw [wink]

Drop saw,fixed saw,...you name it.

Its very easy.

You right,10" is not enough to cut 250mm (10" ?) at once.
So,I do it on both sides.
Its simple,its easy and very precise !
You didn't know it?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 03:47 AM by VaDimZH »

Offline mwahaha

  • Posts: 110
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #54 on: March 13, 2016, 05:40 AM »
Max depth of cut is a pretty anaemic 70mm
Makin' chips since ages ago

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 541
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #55 on: March 13, 2016, 06:26 AM »
In a realistic application though what're you cutting that's thicker than a 2x4 but thinner than a 4x4? 12/4 boards? I can't really think of any trim that's thicker than 70mm but I don't see being able to cut baseboards standing up and using the sym fence unless it's the short cheap stuff from the box stores.

Offline justinh

  • Posts: 164
    • Profiled Edge Woodworks
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #56 on: March 13, 2016, 10:33 AM »
Guys! I wanna say,the best saw is "fixed" saw,like it or don't like it doesn't mater.
I recently purchased Dewalt 10" DW713  Miter Saw,and its absolutely almost perfectly!
Just minor adjustments and its perfectly accurate!
And believe or not,its for $219.00 !!! from Home Depot !  [eek]
Paying $1450 +/- fro Kapex,or whatever...Metabo or some other expensive stuff....looks like crazy O V E R P R I C E D !!!
$1,450 FOR WHAT !!!
For a TONNE .... design mistake and failure ?!?
No! Thank you!
I better stay with my trusty DeWALT !!!
For so many years (just sold my DW713 for my friend,because he really need it and not going to spend a lot of money) my DW713  HAS NEVER HAVE ANY PROBLEMS !!!
NOT A SINGLE!
And its from 2002, 14 years and still working,without any single problems!!!

@VaDimZH

So you're talking about a drop saw. They're different - very different. I can comprehend that you have a strong opinion on this, but please don't confuse the issue. In your context I would paraphrase that you think sliding compound mitre saws are more complicated and for your needs a drop saw does the trick.

If I'm wrong, tell me how you mitre cut a compound angle on a 250mm board with your drop saw [wink]

A fixed miter saw is different than a scms without a doubt.  If you have to make compound cuts the scms will be the better choice based on the approach angle of the blade.  When making a compound cut on a fixed saw the blade will have a much greater tendency to deflect regardless of the blade that's on the saw.  I have 2 different sliding saws of different sizes to handle situations where the extra cross cut capacity is needed.

For most applications on the trimout of a typical home a fixed miter saw will handle just about every cut I will need to make. The typical base on a nicer package will be between 5 1/4" and 6 1/2".  Larger is common but is usually a built up and any of the components will be in the capacity of a fixed saw in position.  Casing is usually somewhere between 3 1/2" and 4 1/2".  Crown is between 4 1/4" and 6 1/2"  which are easily cut in position on a fixed saw. I run a 12" DW716.  It has higher clearances than any other saw on the market and most of the common trim components can be easily cut in position.  It is a very basic saw.  It takes very tight set up tolerances and holds them well.  With a standard kerf, industrial, task specific blade deflection isn't an issue  If I am not responsible for the stairs and/or the closet packages then it's the only saw I need to trim out a home.  I will often bring out the DW713 saw that was mentioned earlier and hand carry it around for the occasional recut as I install.  The vertical capacities are too small to handle what I typically run but the cross cut is enough to knock a 1/16" of the butt end of crown or base. Occasionally I need to cut taller one piece mouldings and need the cross cut capacity of a scms but it is more exception than the rule.

A fixed saw is more accurate than a scms in applications where either can be used because it has fewer moving parts and fewer places where flex or machining tolerances can affect the cut.  They are easier to tune up and easier to keep accurate because they have fewer moving parts.  When I am choosing tools I tend to look for the simplest possible options.  Electronics controlling power, soft start, lasers, variable speed, micro bevel adjustment, and movable fences will turn me off a particular saw.  The only bells or whistles on any of my saws are a light and a detent override.  The simplicity makes the tool more durable.  I'm sure others will have different needs and the things that I see as liabilities will be the things that make the tool indispensable to them.  There's no perfect saw for everyone.

Offline VaDimZH

  • Posts: 173
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #57 on: March 13, 2016, 01:01 PM »
Guys! I wanna say,the best saw is "fixed" saw,like it or don't like it doesn't mater.
I recently purchased Dewalt 10" DW713  Miter Saw,and its absolutely almost perfectly!
Just minor adjustments and its perfectly accurate!
And believe or not,its for $219.00 !!! from Home Depot !  [eek]
Paying $1450 +/- fro Kapex,or whatever...Metabo or some other expensive stuff....looks like crazy O V E R P R I C E D !!!
$1,450 FOR WHAT !!!
For a TONNE .... design mistake and failure ?!?
No! Thank you!
I better stay with my trusty DeWALT !!!
For so many years (just sold my DW713 for my friend,because he really need it and not going to spend a lot of money) my DW713  HAS NEVER HAVE ANY PROBLEMS !!!
NOT A SINGLE!
And its from 2002, 14 years and still working,without any single problems!!!

@VaDimZH

So you're talking about a drop saw. They're different - very different. I can comprehend that you have a strong opinion on this, but please don't confuse the issue. In your context I would paraphrase that you think sliding compound mitre saws are more complicated and for your needs a drop saw does the trick.

If I'm wrong, tell me how you mitre cut a compound angle on a 250mm board with your drop saw [wink]




A fixed saw is more accurate than a scms in applications where either can be used because it has fewer moving parts and fewer places where flex or machining tolerances can affect the cut.  They are easier to tune up and easier to keep accurate because they have fewer moving parts.  When I am choosing tools I tend to look for the simplest possible options.  Electronics controlling power, soft start, lasers, variable speed, micro bevel adjustment, and movable fences will turn me off a particular saw.

Agree,thats why I use my DW713 more than any other saw.


Offline oneeyesquare

  • Posts: 37
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #58 on: March 13, 2016, 02:04 PM »
I'm guessing that's not coming to the US. Like a bunch of other cool tools (lookin at you Bosch track saw)....

I did a brief search on step up voltage transformers which looks plausible. Not quite sure how you would handle the DE power connection though.

Now, where to look to export one.... 

Cuz , wow!, that looks pretty cool!

Offline mwahaha

  • Posts: 110
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #59 on: March 13, 2016, 02:05 PM »
In a realistic application though what're you cutting that's thicker than a 2x4 but thinner than a 4x4? 12/4 boards? I can't really think of any trim that's thicker than 70mm but I don't see being able to cut baseboards standing up and using the sym fence unless it's the short cheap stuff from the box stores.

My Hitachi 10" cuts 100mm x 295mm and compounds 60 x 220. So I can (and do) cut posts, one piece lintels, compound angles on framing, right bevel more than 25mm (that metabo could only do 22mm).

Don't get me wrong, I think it looks like a nice saw, but I just think its retarded that manufactures limit 10" saws like this when they don't need to. A lot of people only have one saw, certain Makita's, Hitachi's and Dewalt's are so popular because you can almost do everything with the one saw
Makin' chips since ages ago

Offline mwahaha

  • Posts: 110
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #60 on: March 13, 2016, 02:17 PM »
(lookin at you Bosch track saw)....

That saw only has one positive stop like the unimproved TS55R.... Just sayin...
Makin' chips since ages ago

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Offline Bohdan

  • Posts: 772
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #61 on: March 13, 2016, 08:35 PM »
In a realistic application though what're you cutting that's thicker than a 2x4 but thinner than a 4x4? 12/4 boards? I can't really think of any trim that's thicker than 70mm but I don't see being able to cut baseboards standing up and using the sym fence unless it's the short cheap stuff from the box stores.

My Hitachi 10" cuts 100mm x 295mm and compounds 60 x 220. So I can (and do) cut posts, one piece lintels, compound angles on framing, right bevel more than 25mm (that metabo could only do 22mm).

Don't get me wrong, I think it looks like a nice saw, but I just think its retarded that manufactures limit 10" saws like this when they don't need to. A lot of people only have one saw, certain Makita's, Hitachi's and Dewalt's are so popular because you can almost do everything with the one saw

Its not a 10" saw its blade is 216mm (8 1/2")

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 321
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #62 on: March 13, 2016, 11:44 PM »
First off hats off to metabo for finally making a dual bevel scms with a small blade. (Hitachi used to make such a beast but only for Japan?).
Once the paint drys I think This is no kapex beater. At 40 lbs it's not lighter enough to justify the smaller cutting capacity. Furthermore I think not being able to miter 60 degrees is a shortcoming. I think there is a little to much fantasy about this saw on this thread, it looks cheap with skinny rails. But we shall see. If they got rid of that silly gimmicky moveable fence(more moving parts more problems) added 60 degree miter and shaved 5 lbs now maybe we got something.

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 541
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #63 on: March 14, 2016, 06:08 AM »
We really don't know the quality of it so sure that is just speculation. I'll play Devils advocate though and say that:

1. It is lighter than a kapex
2. It has an added sym fence feature (even if you don't use it all the time I can see the applications.
3. It's most likely cheaper than a kapex (speculation)
4. There's a chance it won't have the same motor issues that the kapex does (don't jump on me here. I've experienced it and it sucks)
5. Everyone harping on the lack of the ug cart. Check out the new cart that's also being released with it. Loks like a Bosch gravity type cart with outrigger arms and it looks STURDY.

So let's not discount it, it could be a useful tool.

Offline tomtom1984

  • Posts: 20
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #64 on: March 14, 2016, 07:00 AM »
As we are talking about compact saws I thought I might give you guys another possible option.
Only currently available in Japan and depth of cut is a little less again at 65mm but with a large slide and only weighing 12.4kg this thing is tiny! Perfect if like me you need your saw to be portable. Its the makita ls0717.




Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 429
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #65 on: March 14, 2016, 10:29 AM »
Metabo isn't really thought of as pro gear in The Netherlands and when I need a tool it certainly isn't a brand that I would consider. For some reason it has a very distinct DIY image. This saw however looks very nice indeed.

I've always used  Metabo  drills  and angle grinders. For quality  and robustness  hard to beat. Certainly not diy.

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #66 on: March 14, 2016, 03:03 PM »
Just another take on the is/is not better than/comparable to a Kapex line of thinking - I do no need nor want a Kapex, but I would love to have a compact & quality SCMS that could handle 8-10" (dare I hope for 12"?) material up to ~3" thick and it furniture-grade accurate and clean-cutting.

A Kapex is overkill for me, I will never cut a piece of crown or anything taller than 2-3". I also would not pay Kapex-type $$ for a saw, but depending on how optimistic I was feeling on that particular day I might get close to $1K.

I have to admit I have not paid a lot of attention to it's form factor but at first impression I could justify the space penalty for this saw. One thing I avoid is any commonly used tool that I have to move/set up before I can us it, a saw like this in particular. It all seems moot right now since chances are it may never hit our shores.

Just my [2cents].

RMW
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Offline mastercabman

  • Posts: 1852
  • NORFOLK,VA
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #67 on: March 14, 2016, 04:04 PM »
As we are talking about compact saws I thought I might give you guys another possible option.
Only currently available in Japan and depth of cut is a little less again at 65mm but with a large slide and only weighing 12.4kg this thing is tiny! Perfect if like me you need your saw to be portable. Its the makita ls0717.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
I do like Makita but it seems that they cannot stick with a design for their sliders
I remember they used to have a 12" with a single large pole
Then they had the rails moving under the table
Then they went with rails on top behind the saw head
Then the dual rails one at top and one at bottom under the table
Now it shows a saw with rails stack top bottom on the side kind of like the Hitachi
Why are they contently redesigning their miter saws?
Their saws are one thing I don't really care for
They seems to have too many mix reviews
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline tomtom1984

  • Posts: 20
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #68 on: March 14, 2016, 04:44 PM »
As we are talking about compact saws I thought I might give you guys another possible option.
Only currently available in Japan and depth of cut is a little less again at 65mm but with a large slide and only weighing 12.4kg this thing is tiny! Perfect if like me you need your saw to be portable. Its the makita ls0717.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
I do like Makita but it seems that they cannot stick with a design for their sliders
I remember they used to have a 12" with a single large pole
Then they had the rails moving under the table
Then they went with rails on top behind the saw head
Then the dual rails one at top and one at bottom under the table
Now it shows a saw with rails stack top bottom on the side kind of like the Hitachi
Why are they contently redesigning their miter saws?
Their saws are one thing I don't really care for
They seems to have too many mix reviews

I'm guessing that by moving the rails to the side it allows a double bevel facility while keeping the saw compact? Personally I really like makitas saws they are simple, lightweight and very accurate. The only makita saw I don't like is the plunge saw.

Offline VaDimZH

  • Posts: 173
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #69 on: March 14, 2016, 07:35 PM »
I used previously a lot of miter saws,and hands down the best is - Dewalt!
And does't matter what model.
Except maybe ... Kapex,but for a $$$ it has a lot of problems...

Dewalt DW713,14 years old,still working without any problems,no problems with engine,no problems with table and etc.
Perfectly balanced and amazingly comfortable!
Its just working!
Same about Dewalt drill and other tools.
Cold,warm,rain,dust....doesn't matter!
Its just working and working perfectly!
;)

I want to try some day Kapex,I used it just once and its absolutely amazing saw!
« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 12:28 AM by VaDimZH »

Offline neeleman

  • Posts: 1169
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #70 on: March 31, 2016, 05:17 PM »
The price of the new Metabo is announced in Germany.
METABO KGSV 72 XACT SYM 1,8KW at €751,62 incl. MwSt.
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Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2544
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #71 on: March 31, 2016, 07:08 PM »
Interesting price; that's  Aus$1102. Will probably be more when importation costs and our GST is added.

Meantime, SYM Symmetric is Aus$1595.
http://www.festool.com.au/epages/tooltechnic.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/tooltechnic/Products/561304
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7603
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #72 on: March 31, 2016, 07:18 PM »
Interesting price; that's  Aus$1102. Will probably be more when importation costs and our GST is added.

Meantime, SYM Symmetric is Aus$1595.
http://www.festool.com.au/epages/tooltechnic.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/tooltechnic/Products/561304


Metabo Oz pricing seems to be pretty competitive ... They seem to be willing to compete in the marketplace rather than trying to manipulate it !!

We may be surprised [wink] ... Now, do I really need a third SCMS? [scratch chin]

@Untidy Shop

Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 822
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #73 on: March 31, 2016, 07:27 PM »
I'm sure that's also an introductory RRP. Probably takes at least €100 off that once physical stock hits the shops after a few months of fulfilling initial orders.

Online Peter Halle

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #74 on: March 31, 2016, 07:33 PM »
Looking forward to hearing about the impressions of this once it has been used, then a year later, than 6 years later.

Peter

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 541
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #75 on: March 31, 2016, 08:39 PM »
Hopefully it'll last longer than 3 and a half years.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2544
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #76 on: March 31, 2016, 08:48 PM »
Interesting that some are still attempting to compare this saw with the Kapex, when it has a smaller blade and is in fact a hybrid of a Festool SCM type design and a sliding compound. With a 70mm depth of cut, the same as the Festool SCM, this is more a cabnitary, final fix, installation type of saw.

As to how long it will last? Remember Metabo too, like Festool probably has a few duds in a vast sea of reliable high quality German designed products.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 09:03 PM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Green Koolaide

  • Posts: 104
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #77 on: May 23, 2016, 02:29 PM »
Anyone know if it's coming to North America?

If yes please take my money :)


Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 12:28 AM by Green Koolaide »
"Five out of every four people have problems with fractions"

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7603
ATTN Aussies - re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #78 on: May 31, 2016, 05:34 AM »
Just noticed on metabo.com.au that this is to be released for June 2016 here.

http://www.metabo.com.au/KGSV-72-Xact-SYM-mitre-saw.57201.0.html

I haven't seen a price, so let's have a guess ... I'll start with $825  [smile]

@DB10 @Untidy Shop @Holmz (we need "@ groups" on the FOG)




Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3751
Re: ATTN Aussies - re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #79 on: May 31, 2016, 06:15 AM »
Just noticed on metabo.com.au that this is to be released for June 2016 here.

http://www.metabo.com.au/KGSV-72-Xact-SYM-mitre-saw.57201.0.html

I haven't seen a price, so let's have a guess ... I'll start with $825  [smile]

@DB10 @Untidy Shop @Holmz (we need "@ groups" on the FOG)

@Kev
I decided I am getting an Erika85, so it will double as a Kapex/Metabo SCMS, and a contractor saw. A bit more than the $825, plus $1250 of the deWalt 245 contractors saw. But I really don't need the SCMS very often. But I need a table saw.

Offline Chef

  • Posts: 4
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #80 on: June 08, 2016, 02:18 PM »
I saw this saw recently at a metabo roadshow where I got to do a few test cuts and I was instantly impressed especially by how compact the machine is. The price was £549 +vat ,I forgot to ask if it was built in Germany. They also do the same saw but without the sym fence @ approx £100 less, I left to think things thru (as I am looking to purchase a new slider mainly for workshop use) and I am now torn between the 2x models...is the sym fence worth the extra cost ? Or are there other compact saws I should consider .  Ta

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7603
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #81 on: June 08, 2016, 02:38 PM »
I saw this saw recently at a metabo roadshow where I got to do a few test cuts and I was instantly impressed especially by how compact the machine is. The price was £549 +vat ,I forgot to ask if it was built in Germany. They also do the same saw but without the sym fence @ approx £100 less, I left to think things thru (as I am looking to purchase a new slider mainly for workshop use) and I am now torn between the 2x models...is the sym fence worth the extra cost ? Or are there other compact saws I should consider .  Ta

@Chef I think the SYM fence is one of those things that you'd never miss until you've got to use one. I could imagine myself using a SYM fence in a number of situations where it'd simplify the job, but I don't think I could justify a third SCMS based on how often it would come into play.

Offline dutchie

  • Posts: 136
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #82 on: June 08, 2016, 03:04 PM »
I'm also curious if it's made in Germany or not. If it is that would probably seal the deal for me and I'd be looking to replace my Bosch with the SYM version.

So far I've seen Metabo stuff from Germany, Hungary, Vietnam, Korea and China so all over the place! 

Offline Kev

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #83 on: June 08, 2016, 03:55 PM »
I'm also curious if it's made in Germany or not. If it is that would probably seal the deal for me and I'd be looking to replace my Bosch with the SYM version.

So far I've seen Metabo stuff from Germany, Hungary, Vietnam, Korea and China so all over the place!

I'm going to guess made in China .. there appears to be a lot of design commonality with the Metabo cordless SCMS I have that's made in China. Annoying little things like the allen key rusting within weeks detract from a pretty solid design.

Offline Amalix

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #84 on: June 16, 2016, 07:12 PM »
Also available without the "SYM" fence. Basically (dare I say it) a Kapex clone. A quick search tells me prices range between 500€ and 600€ (in Germany)... Might be an interesting upgrade, the space saving aspect is a huge factor for me.

Video:


Offline Kev

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #85 on: June 16, 2016, 07:33 PM »
Also available without the "SYM" fence. Basically (dare I say it) a Kapex clone. A quick search tells me prices range between 500€ and 600€ (in Germany)... Might be an interesting upgrade, the space saving aspect is a huge factor for me.

Video:


@Amalix

No, not with a 216mm blade it's not.

This size machine is excellent for flooring, panelling, decking, etc .. but don't confuse the cut capacity. I'm hoping they intro a version of the KGSV 72 XACT SYM in cordless, then I'd swap my KGS 18 LTX 216 in a heartbeat.

Offline Amalix

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #86 on: June 16, 2016, 07:44 PM »
Right, maybe my comparison to the Kapex was a little bit too fast. Cut capacity and Dust collection will be a lot less on the metabo, among other things. I really cant afford the Kapex but I would love a space saving miter saw.

I have a lot of flooring coming up, as well as fitting a kitchen and 2 large sheds, all of which this machine (and my current, the kgs 216) can easily handle. Budget wise though, decisions decisions...

Bottom line, I suppose this remains a decent alternative if one is looking for a compact saw.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 07:46 PM by Amalix »

Offline Kev

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #87 on: June 16, 2016, 10:08 PM »
Right, maybe my comparison to the Kapex was a little bit too fast. Cut capacity and Dust collection will be a lot less on the metabo, among other things. I really cant afford the Kapex but I would love a space saving miter saw.

I have a lot of flooring coming up, as well as fitting a kitchen and 2 large sheds, all of which this machine (and my current, the kgs 216) can easily handle. Budget wise though, decisions decisions...

Bottom line, I suppose this remains a decent alternative if one is looking for a compact saw.

@Amalix Agree with you 100% .. my little cordless Metabo SCMS has a couple of "made in China" imperfect aspects, but as a complete unit it is really a little beauty - particularly for the price point. If this new little Metabo SYM is as good or better in quality as the Metabo I have, for the price you mention and it features - it'll be excellent buying [wink]

Before I got my KAPEX (I got it with the UG stand and extensions to easily move about) I got by happily (ignorantly) with a little Hitachi SCMS. There was always a lot of clean up with the Hitachi, the stand was a pain, measurement was a pain, stabilising different length pieces of timber with two free standing rollers was a pain ... I simply didn't realise the quantum leap of moving to the KAPEX until I was looking back. Now that I've added the little Metabo cordless SCMS the KAPEX sees a lot less action.

Offline rizzoa13

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #88 on: June 17, 2016, 04:20 AM »
Id also spring for this in cordless. I've got a decent amount of the metabo LIHD batteries and plan to get more so Id get this in cordless in a heartbeat.

Can it cut crown nested? Probably not. Can it cut most everything else you'll be doing on a daily basis? Probably. In my eyes it  ould be very useful.

Offline dutchie

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #89 on: June 17, 2016, 03:01 PM »
So I reached out to Metabo and they informed me the KGSV 72 Xact SYM is Made in China. Still comes with the 3 year warranty like all Metabo tools, but I'm curious what tools are still being made in Germany by Metabo.

I have a Metabo SB 18 LTX Quick BL and that's made in Germany. Metabo just released an update version of this drill (SB 18 LTX Q BL I) last month I'd be curious to see if this is also still made in Germany or also moved to China.

Offline bobfog

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #90 on: June 17, 2016, 03:21 PM »
Made in China isn't necessarily a bad thing. It depends on what sort of handle Metabo has on enforcing good QC standards. In some instances the money saved on labour can be ploughed back into better components. Don't rule something out just because it's made in China.

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Offline McNally Family

  • Posts: 430
  • Festool Atomic Phaser Particle Blaster (APPB Set)
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #91 on: June 17, 2016, 09:15 PM »
Made in China isn't necessarily a bad thing. It depends on what sort of handle Metabo has on enforcing good QC standards. In some instances the money saved on labour can be ploughed back into better components. Don't rule something out just because it's made in China.

Unless you're talking about dog biscuits.  They "ploughed" something into those, but it was toxic to animals, killing them.
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26 w/Installer Cleaning Set | C18 5.2 Set w/Centrotec Installer's Set | RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set |  Won the CXS Li 2.6 90 Limited Edition on 06/20/2016 | Metric Parallel Guide Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail (x1) | Next  Purchase: Something else Metric |

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // KSS 60cc // Next purchase: TBD

Offline DB10

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #92 on: June 17, 2016, 09:24 PM »
  I spoke with Metabo about their Chinese production sometime ago as I was disappointed that the latest Cordless Angle grinders that were supposed to be built in Germany got switched to being produced in China.  I was told that it isn't all about the cheaper labour in China over Europe but it is more to do with logistics, apparently if you want to be able to produce quality machinery at a competitive price then it makes sense to make it in China. I sort of see where they are coming from, China is the epicentre for manufacturing and if that's where everyone else manufactures their tools then why make it hard on yourself and try do it somewhere else.
 By the way I've never had any problems with either Metabo or Milwaukee tools that have been manufactured in China, I believe companies like this invest a lot of time and money in their quality control.

Offline Kev

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #93 on: June 17, 2016, 10:27 PM »
I think there's a big difference between simply sourcing cheap stuff from Asia and flogging it for a tidy profit v's a reputable manufacturer reducing manufacturing costs .. if they do maintain a high quality standard it can be a benefit to the consumer.

I will confess though to immediately lowering my expectations when I appraise something cheaper that's made in China. If my Metabo cordless SCMS had been more expensive and made in Germany I wouldn't have expected the allen key to rust in the first week!


Offline dutchie

  • Posts: 136
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #94 on: June 18, 2016, 09:58 AM »
My biggest gripe with stuff made in China isn't so much the quality, because as mentioned above plenty of high quality stuff is being made in China, but more with the lack of labor and environmental laws. I doubt the workers in the Chinese Metabo factory work on the same terms as their 'colleagues' in the German factories. And with that I don't mean how much they are being paid necessarily, but the number of days in the week they have to work, the number of hours and the amount of holidays they get, etc. etc.

Offline bobfog

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #95 on: June 18, 2016, 10:15 AM »
My biggest gripe with stuff made in China isn't so much the quality, because as mentioned above plenty of high quality stuff is being made in China, but more with the lack of labor and environmental laws. I doubt the workers in the Chinese Metabo factory work on the same terms as their 'colleagues' in the German factories. And with that I don't mean how much they are being paid necessarily, but the number of days in the week they have to work, the number of hours and the amount of holidays they get, etc. etc.

The counter argument is if people boycott because of the reasons you stated they wouldn't have jobs at all because if there isn't an economic advantage to be exploited they'd just move manufacturing back to Germnay and add 50% to the cost of the tools. So it's lose lose all round.

Offline McNally Family

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  • Festool Atomic Phaser Particle Blaster (APPB Set)
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #96 on: June 18, 2016, 12:29 PM »
My biggest gripe with stuff made in China isn't so much the quality, because as mentioned above plenty of high quality stuff is being made in China, but more with the lack of labor and environmental laws. I doubt the workers in the Chinese Metabo factory work on the same terms as their 'colleagues' in the German factories. And with that I don't mean how much they are being paid necessarily, but the number of days in the week they have to work, the number of hours and the amount of holidays they get, etc. etc.


Dutchie, I agree with you completely.  I stopped purchasing shrimp from our local grocery, because it is sourced from places like Indonesia (as is most frozen grocery store and restaurant shrimp in this country), where the shrimp industry employs slave-like labor practices.

http://www.triplepundit.com/2014/06/csr-asia-inclusive-business-solve-shrimp-industry-ills/#

It's a small protest, of insignificant economic consequence, but as a matter of principle I now purchase shrimp from the Gulf and have it shipped overnight to my home in Tennessee.  It costs a little bit more, and it means I don't get to eat shrimp as often, but it tastes better knowing someone was paid a living wage, and can live in a decent home, while earning their living.

Festool utilizes factory labor in the Czech Republic for some of their products (PDC comes to mind), where labor costs are about 1/3 of that found in Germany.   Business will migrate to cheaper labor to maintain margins.  It is only when they end up harming people (or pets) in the process, where it becomes a problem.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 12:33 PM by McNally Family »
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26 w/Installer Cleaning Set | C18 5.2 Set w/Centrotec Installer's Set | RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set |  Won the CXS Li 2.6 90 Limited Edition on 06/20/2016 | Metric Parallel Guide Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail (x1) | Next  Purchase: Something else Metric |

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // KSS 60cc // Next purchase: TBD

Offline dutchie

  • Posts: 136
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #97 on: June 18, 2016, 01:50 PM »
My biggest gripe with stuff made in China isn't so much the quality, because as mentioned above plenty of high quality stuff is being made in China, but more with the lack of labor and environmental laws. I doubt the workers in the Chinese Metabo factory work on the same terms as their 'colleagues' in the German factories. And with that I don't mean how much they are being paid necessarily, but the number of days in the week they have to work, the number of hours and the amount of holidays they get, etc. etc.


Dutchie, I agree with you completely.  I stopped purchasing shrimp from our local grocery, because it is sourced from places like Indonesia (as is most frozen grocery store and restaurant shrimp in this country), where the shrimp industry employs slave-like labor practices.

http://www.triplepundit.com/2014/06/csr-asia-inclusive-business-solve-shrimp-industry-ills/#

It's a small protest, of insignificant economic consequence, but as a matter of principle I now purchase shrimp from the Gulf and have it shipped overnight to my home in Tennessee.  It costs a little bit more, and it means I don't get to eat shrimp as often, but it tastes better knowing someone was paid a living wage, and can live in a decent home, while earning their living.

Festool utilizes factory labor in the Czech Republic for some of their products (PDC comes to mind), where labor costs are about 1/3 of that found in Germany.   Business will migrate to cheaper labor to maintain margins.  It is only when they end up harming people (or pets) in the process, where it becomes a problem.
Glad we're on the same page :)

About the Festool Czech factory I think that was part of the deal when TTS (Festool's mother company) bought Narex, a czech company. So I think there's a difference with Metabo, Milwaukee etc. here. I don't think they moved labor their perse as its cheaper, but they simply obtained a fully functional factory there. This is just speculation from my side, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Offline McNally Family

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  • Festool Atomic Phaser Particle Blaster (APPB Set)
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #98 on: June 18, 2016, 04:13 PM »
I'm sure your right.  I just remember seeing on the side of the PDC that it was made in the Czech Republic.  Then for some reason I was involved in research regarding labor rates in Europe, and how they compared to the United States.  That is how I discovered the difference between German and Czech labor costs. 
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 04:17 PM by McNally Family »
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26 w/Installer Cleaning Set | C18 5.2 Set w/Centrotec Installer's Set | RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set |  Won the CXS Li 2.6 90 Limited Edition on 06/20/2016 | Metric Parallel Guide Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail (x1) | Next  Purchase: Something else Metric |

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // KSS 60cc // Next purchase: TBD

Offline yetihunter

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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #99 on: June 18, 2016, 11:30 PM »


completely relevant.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 339
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #100 on: June 18, 2016, 11:45 PM »
PDC was a Protool item.   I presume it was always made in the Narex (not to be confused with other Narex brands not owned by TTS) factory with other Protool products. 

The latest Metabo grinders are on display at my local shop.
They look and feel like a step down in quality.  Hopefully that's not the
case.   Overbuilt motors are their selling point, and I imagine they're either shipping them to their Chinese factory, or that they replicated the machinery.





Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 822
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #101 on: July 16, 2016, 03:56 PM »
Hi all,

My first post and unfortunately it is not a happy one.
Got my new Metabo KGSV 72 Xact sym delivered today and was very happy with it until I tried to loosen the saw blade bolt and this happened:

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

p :'(

Welcome to the forum.

Interesting first ever post to a Festool forum is about a fault with a newly released Metabo saw that competes with the Kapex. Care to elaborate a little love about how this catostrophic failure occurred or some more photos?

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 899
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #102 on: July 16, 2016, 03:56 PM »
Ouch!  Not a good sign.
-Raj

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7603
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #103 on: July 16, 2016, 04:19 PM »
MAN !

What happened? Did you accidentally launch it off a cliff while you were undoing the bolt or something [eek] ??

The looks quite disturbing.

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 429
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #104 on: July 16, 2016, 05:11 PM »
The Metabo  KGS 315  looks impressive. Anyone own one?

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 703
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #105 on: July 16, 2016, 05:40 PM »
Not trying to be rude.... but were you turning it the correct way? That bolt is reverse threaded (left handed). Clockwise to loosen and counter clockwise to tighten.


Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 541
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #106 on: July 16, 2016, 06:55 PM »
You must've had s breaker bar on the wrench to do that

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 429
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #107 on: July 17, 2016, 04:55 AM »
Where have fogme's images  went?

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7603
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #108 on: July 17, 2016, 05:42 AM »
Where have fogme's images  went?

It would appear that they deleted the post.

Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #109 on: August 03, 2016, 02:17 PM »
I picked up a Metabo 18V KGS yesterday and I fondled the KGS 72 Xact SYM. It seems nice enough for sure. It felt like a quality machine. There was nothing to cut in the shop though.

I was a little bummed that the 18V only does 45(+2) right and left but all things considered and for what it is supposed to do for me it will fit the bill. It will be paired with the Metabo KSS40. Haven't even had time to fire it up yet though!
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Coach.carpenter

  • Posts: 28
  • I like to make!
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #110 on: September 04, 2016, 04:00 PM »
Very impressive! I've been hankering after the Metabo 254plus for a while but this is a lovely bit of kit! I wish more local shops stocked their stuff so I could get a hands on feel for them

Offline edcrumpo

  • Posts: 1
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #111 on: June 15, 2017, 05:42 PM »
I've have been doing a lot of research on this saw and have found it difficult to find an in depth review of the Metabo KGSV 72 Xact SYM.

I did find one review which was in German here:

https://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/OffersOfProduct/5032774_-kgsv-72-xact-sym-metabo.html#Expertenmeinung

I've cut and paste the review below for anyone who wishes to read it. (N.B It has been translated using google translate so there are some errors)

20.08.16 - The Carpenter (reviewers name)
Neat saw: I recently added the "Metabo KGSV 72 XACT SYM". I use the saw mainly for flooring and trimming for skirting boards.
Pro: The saw has an acceptable weight and the carrying handles are arranged in the right place. The settings of the angles and stops work as seen in the "known" videos. The suction works with vacuum cleaner, (Festo Midi) quite neat. Depending on the material, the chips are sucked out almost completely. I noticed positively that the fine dust, which causes hysteria in the customer, is sucked very well. The saw has a secure stand and compact dimensions. The cut quality with the included saw blade is very good. When one has become acquainted with the many red heads and levers, The operation is really simple and practical. Particularly useful for the trimming of skirting boards is the swiveling of the saw on both sides when the masons have not properly cleaned the corners. Then, the angle previously transmitted with the slider need not be adjusted again. Those who have to mount baseboards often know what I mean. The adjustment of the laser is quite simple if you have the necessary fingertip feeling. It is also practical that you can disable the latch function for the common angles. This makes it easy to adjust angles just next to the snaps. Because of the good performance I use the saw more and more often in the workshop. Contra: The saw has only few points of criticism. The symmetrical adjustment of the stops has to my taste somewhat too much play. In practice this means that if I transfer an angle with the Schmiege, I can move the respective other stop somewhat back and forth after tightening the left or right stop until I have also tightened it. When adjusting, this means that I have to keep the scraper carefully against the stops until the second stop is locked. In my opinion this is only a habit. The supplied Schmiege is unfortunately of no particularly good quality. The tightening screw must be tightened if the angle is not adjusted when the angles are transferred. I have already exchanged the Schmiege since I use this much. The lead wire could be slightly longer and softer. A quality similar to Festo would be nice. The integrated working light and the laser could be somewhat brighter, but they are usable.
Conclusion: In price and performance, the saw with its combination of grooving and panel saw fully convinced me. The processing and handling are very good. I would buy the saw again immediately.

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 33
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #112 on: June 16, 2017, 04:33 AM »
I got one as a second more mobile saw to compliment my 25Kg 12" DWS780. I posted random thoughts on it over on the UK Workshop forum. First post on it is here with more posts further through the thread.

In a nutshell it's a fine saw but the detents, at least on my one, aren't bang on and I've not found a way of adjusting them. That's not to say there isn't a way to tweak them... I just haven't looked properly yet as, with the SYM fences, there's a lot of moving parts down below [scared]

Offline LJD

  • Posts: 69
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #113 on: June 16, 2017, 04:35 AM »
Anyone who think Metabo is not producing quality items are fools .They could easily take on festool and win.

Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #114 on: June 16, 2017, 04:04 PM »
Roachmill: thank you for the review and insight on the Metabo SYM. I wasn't too thrilled with the KS60 so I didn't keep it. If I were in the market for this size saw again I would definitely go with the Metabo SYM as it would probably meet my expectations which are probably on par with your findings. :)

Since I have some bigger stuff to cut this summer (decking/fenceposts) I ended up buying a Metabo 254 - it has no softstart but is light, "cheap", does the job and I got it with the KSU 401 stand which has a spread up to 4m.  [eek]
I didn't go larger in saw size as the tasks at hand does not require it.

I was expecting to true up the saw but to my pleasant surprise the machine is dead on from factory when checked with a large, calibrated square.  I am sure it will do the job and I don't expect miracles from it. Horses for courses. :)
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 715
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #115 on: June 16, 2017, 06:13 PM »
Anyone who think Metabo is not producing quality items are fools .They could easily take on festool and win.
Theyd need to come up with a whole lot more products and accessories. And establish themselves in the US MUCH better.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 154
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #116 on: June 19, 2017, 11:02 AM »
I think that you're both right, and I think you're both wrong, too.  Metabo generally marches to a different beat to Tooltechnic (Festo, Festool, Narex, Kraenzle, Schneider).  Some Metabo tools are great.  Brilliant, even.  Some are crap.  Just like Festo/ol.

Principally, Metabo's a category killer in grinders, and also latterly general steelwork tools.  Others make good grinders, too.  Flex. Robbie Bosch. Eisenblaetter.  Maybe even Fein.  From a handful to perhaps a dozen or 2 each.  Metabo makes over 100 different grinders.  It's their particular expertise & specialisation.  Just like Festo/ol was principally a sander manufacturer.

Metabo also makes drills.  Dozens of 'em.  Most very good, and some exceptionally so.  A couple are truly outstanding (BE75 x3, GB18) in their respective capabilities.  From the sands of the desert to the arctic, from North Sea oil rigs to shipyards, industrial sites all over the world use Metabo drills & grinders in particular in the toughest worksites.

Since making inroads into the construction market, Metabo has increased its range somewhat exponentially, especially in cordless gear.  I'll be the first to admit that there's still fairly glaring holes within their cordless range (planers, sanders et. al.) but there's still over 80 different cordless Metabo tools.  In fact a breadth of product that frankly makes Tooltechnic's efforts rather paltry in comparison.  If one adds in the compatible output from such venerated tool manufacturers as Mafell & Rothenberger, then the "Metabo & Friends" cordless range is in my opinion pretty outstanding.

I have only a few myself (9), but consider them close to if not the best tools available in their particular categories.  Aside from everything else, they (Mafell & Rothenberger too) currently sport the world's best, most powerful, versatile and energy dense battery platform available.  It's quite a revelation what high current capacity batteries can accomplish these days.  The only categories that I can think of that have a palpable need for improvement are in SDS Plus & Max combis & hammers, routers & small, compact impact drivers.  Bosch, DeWalt & Makita respectively dominate these segments, and even Festo/ol's handful of equivalents are not exactly exemplars of these particular categories either.

Where Festo/ol tend to dominate is in their sanders, especially those extremely capable aged Holz Her designs they inherited, vacuums (thanks to the Kraenzle purchase;  Metabo, in common with the majority of other German firms use Starmix variants) and of course their loose tenoners which rival even the very best alternatives from Lamello & Mafell.  Most relevant SMEs would be using Festo or Rupes electric sanders these days.

With their relatively unopposed dominance in metalwork tools & rapid expansion into the cordless and construction tools sectors, both Metabo and its Rothenberger and Mafell "companions" are targeting quite a different market segment to Festo/ol.  Festos tend to be more at home in the workshops of small enterprises, sole traders and hobby woodworkers, whereas the aforementioned "gang of 3" are specifically targeting industrial, large commercial & construction clients and specific primary industries such as mining & energy extraction.  From a global perspective, if not specifically north american, you would find Metabo especially and I suspect disproportionately well represented in these specific industries.

As for the dearth of north american representation, well in some ways the 3 countries that comprise the continent have only themselves to blame for that situation.  It's pretty difficult to design a high quality, robust and sophisticated tool around what amounts to an effectively 3rd world mains reticulation system.  Look what's happening to many of the Kapex saws connected to the north america's half-voltage network!  They were never the most robust of tools in the first place, and to connect them to such a primitive reticulation network is almost inevitably asking too much of their somewhat delicate nature.

The rest of the world (aside from the odd tiny banana republic) made the change a century or more ago, allowing much more sophisticated, powerful tools & appliances that would quite frankly overwhelm a lower voltage wiring loom.  It's great news for your local tool manufacturing industry, who can make more specialised lower voltage tooling with extra heavy duty field wiring to cope with those inevitable powerful eddy currents & excess heat generation.  But it's a different story for the major (& a disaster for the small ones, like Festo, Metabo & the like) global tool manufacturers, who must make extensive, expensive, and occasionally (as with Festo's Kapex) ultimately unsuccessful specific modifications for what is with all due respect a fairly marginal proportion of their total marketplace.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 08:44 PM by aloysius »
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Online antss

  • Posts: 1168
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #117 on: June 19, 2017, 12:44 PM »
Nice background piece.

However , for clarity , it needs to be mentioned that FESTO and Festool /TTs are not interchangeable when discusing power tools.

The companies were divide up around the turn of the century to various family members and are completely separate entities now.  FESTO is a pneumatics and industrial automation company .  TTS principally makes handheld electric tools, vacuums, storage solutions via Tanos and lately is into PUR molding processes.

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 732
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #118 on: June 19, 2017, 12:58 PM »
"As for the dearth of north american representation, well in some ways the 3 countries that comprise the continent have only themselves to blame for that situation.  It's pretty difficult to design a high quality, robust and sophisticated tool around what amounts to an effectively 3rd world mains reticulation system.  Look what's happening to many of the Kapex saws connected to the north america's half-voltage network!  They were never the most robust of tools in the first place, and to connect them to such a primitive reticulation network is almost inevitably asking too much of their somewhat delicate nature."

Interesting statement about what you think our NA electric system is run on. Just to clarify, most homes in Canada and the USA have roughly 220V to 240V on between 100 and 200 amp services. Industry in Canada runs on 240V 377V 575V and 600V while in the USA its typically 220 and 440V. Households in both countries have 120V and 220V circuits. I fail to see whats archaic in this. We are not offered the higher voltage tools here for whatever reasons because of those that control the sales of these items. Many shops would have no issues, jobsites would either adapt or take the English road with both 120V and 220V tools.

John

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4589
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Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #119 on: June 19, 2017, 01:07 PM »
Reading between the lines in the post a few back blaming the USA electrical systems for Festool's inability to make a good universal motor for the Kapex is utterly ridiculous.

110/115V 60hz is just that and most all universal motors made right now work perfectly on 50-60hz.

« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 01:10 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 1948
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #120 on: June 19, 2017, 02:50 PM »
"As for the dearth of north american representation, well in some ways the 3 countries that comprise the continent have only themselves to blame for that situation.  It's pretty difficult to design a high quality, robust and sophisticated tool around what amounts to an effectively 3rd world mains reticulation system.  Look what's happening to many of the Kapex saws connected to the north america's half-voltage network!  They were never the most robust of tools in the first place, and to connect them to such a primitive reticulation network is almost inevitably asking too much of their somewhat delicate nature."

Interesting statement about what you think our NA electric system is run on. Just to clarify, most homes in Canada and the USA have roughly 220V to 240V on between 100 and 200 amp services. Industry in Canada runs on 240V 377V 575V and 600V while in the USA its typically 220 and 440V. Households in both countries have 120V and 220V circuits. I fail to see whats archaic in this. We are not offered the higher voltage tools here for whatever reasons because of those that control the sales of these items. Many shops would have no issues, jobsites would either adapt or take the English road with both 120V and 220V tools.

John
. I suspect we'd take the 120/ 110 volt route on job site tools as well .
In some ways, with as much Cordless Platforms being offered, either voltage is getting left behind at a job site as Cordless Tools take over more and more tasks..... [wink]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

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Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 154
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #121 on: June 19, 2017, 08:39 PM »
Nice background piece.

However , for clarity , it needs to be mentioned that FESTO and Festool /TTs are not interchangeable when discusing power tools.

The companies were divide up around the turn of the century to various family members and are completely separate entities now.  FESTO is a pneumatics and industrial automation company .  TTS principally makes handheld electric tools, vacuums, storage solutions via Tanos and lately is into PUR molding processes.

A fair few of my power tools, systainers etc. are marked/labelled as "Festo".  Only those made recently have been called "Festool".  Ergo, either name has legitimacy when describing TT's power tool range.  Many of TTs tools are in effect merely rebadged versions of their original Narex, Protool, Kraenzle & Holz Her "originals" too.  I have/ have had  a few of these as well:  drill, vac, belt sanders.  They still retain the original company's DNA & design within, despite new labelling.  I find it vaguely insulting to those original designers who made these great tools to attribute these products to the new owners.

« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 09:14 PM by aloysius »
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3751
Re: New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw
« Reply #122 on: June 23, 2017, 06:02 PM »
Nice background piece.

However , for clarity , it needs to be mentioned that FESTO and Festool /TTs are not interchangeable when discusing power tools.

The companies were divide up around the turn of the century to various family members and are completely separate entities now.  FESTO is a pneumatics and industrial automation company .  TTS principally makes handheld electric tools, vacuums, storage solutions via Tanos and lately is into PUR molding processes.

A fair few of my power tools, systainers etc. are marked/labelled as "Festo".  Only those made recently have been called "Festool".  Ergo, either name has legitimacy when describing TT's power tool range.  Many of TTs tools are in effect merely rebadged versions of their original Narex, Protool, Kraenzle & Holz Her "originals" too.  I have/ have had  a few of these as well:  drill, vac, belt sanders.  They still retain the original company's DNA & design within, despite new labelling.  I find it vaguely insulting to those original designers who made these great tools to attribute these products to the new owners.

And vaguely insulting...
- to be told "it is a system", when to some extent it was cobbled together.
- to be told that they make the best tools, when really they started out rebadging the best tools.

I still like the look of the BS105 though.