Jesus Aleman
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Location: Toronto, ON Member Since: Nov 2008
Posts: 199
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« on: February 02, 2009, 01:19 PM » |
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I am looking for user feedback on using mini-cyclones with a festool dust extractor. I've seen the many threads. I have 2 specific questions.
1) Does the minicyclone capture both coarse (planing, routing, shop cleanup) and fine (sanding, cutting MDF, sawing)?
2) Is there an impact to cyclone performance whether the dust extractor is set to rabbit or turtle?
I just got one to connect to a CT-22 and have quite a bit of MDF to cut and hardwood to sand. I want to understand whether I should be looking for these to accumulate primarily inside the bucket or the paperbag.
Regards,
JGA.
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otto
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Location: SWEDEN (SE) Member Since: Dec 2007
Posts: 2
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« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2009, 04:42 PM » |
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I have a Mini CV06 and it traps everything that my router and plunge saw produces, I can't answer for how it works with sanding because I haven't tried that yet. I would say that the investment has almost payed for it self during the year I have had it. (i.e. in not having to by new bags). I don't own a festool vac so I offer any opinion regarding the second question.
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tomweston
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Location: UNITED KINGDOM (GB) Member Since: Apr 2008
Posts: 8
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« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2009, 04:56 PM » |
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Hi J.
I have a Dust Deputy/ CT-22 combination.
My opinion is that it is a fantastic combination. It sucks up everything. I use it for sawing, sanding, routing, pocket hole drilling - well basically everything and cleaning up the shop.
The only thing that troubles the combination is when I'm planing - and that I believe is because of static - causes the chips to clog.
Also the length of pipe is 3m (10ft) + 2.5m (8ft) + 1.5m (4.5ft) fed to the Dust Deputy + a further 1m (3ft) to the CT-22. A total of an 8m (25ft) run and it still sucks like the devil - In fact it sucks better withe DD than on it's own.
Just emptied the DD container which was full to the brim, but found hardly any dust in the CT-22 bag.
I have just left the CT-22 set at hare.
Yours
Tom Weston
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oilburnerfixer
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Location: UNITED KINGDOM (UK) Member Since: Jun 2007
Posts: 11
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« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2009, 07:28 PM » |
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I made a CV06 and it's made dust collecting much easier. The waste goes into the bucket with just a small amount of fine dust carried over. I see many claims from owners who say they have nothing at all carried over, but one of my customers used to work at an industrial plant which ran many very efficient cyclones, says there will always be SOME carry over with any cyclone. That's why they have a filter after.
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Jerome
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Location: Japan, Thailand, UK Member Since: May 2007
Posts: 396
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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2009, 01:24 AM » |
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I am looking for user feedback on using mini-cyclones with a festool dust extractor. I've seen the many threads. I have 2 specific questions.
1) Does the minicyclone capture both coarse (planing, routing, shop cleanup) and fine (sanding, cutting MDF, sawing)?
2) Is there an impact to cyclone performance whether the dust extractor is set to rabbit or turtle?
I just got one to connect to a CT-22 and have quite a bit of MDF to cut and hardwood to sand. I want to understand whether I should be looking for these to accumulate primarily inside the bucket or the paperbag.
Regards,
JGA.
I cant yet comment on the CT-22 hookup. but I have my Mini CV06 Cyclone connected to an old (loud  ) vac and while there may be some dust getting past the Cyclone there is none in the base of the unit, so it must be on the filter. This is sanding (RO-150), sawing (TS-55), and routing (Domino).  I am so impressed with the setup that my next project will be to make a cart for my CT-22 & Mini CV06 Cyclone with systainer storage (because I need to raise the CT-22 to near the hight of the Cyclone) and a home made boom arm. |
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Jerome TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone. Wish list WoodRat, Workshop supplies drum sander http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/ |
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Dave Ronyak
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 2228
Flyin' from NE Ohio
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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2009, 01:47 AM » |
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I just emptied the 10 gallon steel drum that came with my DD "complete" with 2" outlet nozzle. My DD is hooked up to my CT 22 E and in 3 years of usage I have not yet had to replace the filter bag or clean the HEPA filters. I did swap out the bag to use my Dirt Trap (plastic bucket) and the HEPA filters with the wet filters (reticulated foam sponges) a couple of times to suck out dirty water from a catch baison I needed to repair. There has never been any evidence of dust on those HEPA filters. This debris was mainly that generated when I built my Four Piece Entertainment Center with Bookcases. I was surprised how heavy the 10 gallons of wood debris were, much more than a much larger volume of planer/jointer debris collected by my larger cyclone unit. The reason the DD debris was so dense and thus the 10 gallons so heavy is that much of the debris was sanding dust. The rest was from use of my TS 55, Domino and small amount Kreg jig pocket holes. I highly recommend installing a mini-cyclone between your shop vacuum and your tools.
Dave R.
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Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement. PCs...I'm not so sure.
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norwegian wood
OfflineMember Since: Jan 2009
Posts: 130
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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2009, 08:28 AM » |
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jerome is that a work bench your building inthe photo? because it sure looks like you can use one, lol wish i could work in flip flops
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Dane
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jan 2008
Posts: 125
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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2009, 09:52 AM » |
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Do you dust deputy owners reccomend the 1.5" version or the 2"?
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Dovetail65
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Feb 2008
Posts: 3764
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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2009, 12:43 PM » |
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I am sure technically and scientifically the 2" is better, but in reality it is not going to matter in the effectiveness of the unit.
Remember, the 1.5" is only on the one side, the other side is still 2". Most people are going to use an adapter at the point of the 2" to more than likely reduce it anyway. I just try to use the biggest hose possible as long as I can while retaining a comfortable use.
Plus the 1.5" is on sale and is 30.00 cheaper so I went with the 1.5". I have a clearvue also, but it has a slight crack. The Onieda is just far more durable and the deal for 160.00 including shipping with the canister is just to good to pass up.
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« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 12:56 PM by nickao »
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Dane
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jan 2008
Posts: 125
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« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2009, 02:28 PM » |
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That's what I was thinking too. But then I went to the clearvue site and saw this crazy new thing that they have that basically replaces the lid of a shop vac with a clearvue. Eliminates the mess of hoses and cobled together carts. You get a compact package with hepa filtration. I'm kinda thinking I want to sell my ct-22 and just get that rig. My real issue with the cyclone has been having to haul around an extra large bucket along with the vac. This seems to solve that problem. Any thoughts? What really is the advantage of the ct-22 as compared to this set up? Seems like the variable suction and tool start could be addressed with a few accesories.
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fidelfs
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Location: Houston, TX Member Since: Mar 2007
Posts: 370
Houston, TX
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« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2009, 05:25 PM » |
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This is more a question about the difference between a dust deputy and a simple conversion 2 stages. The dust deputy relies in the vacuum power of a shop vac type of machine, it could be a rigid, fein, festool etc. The dust deputy creates a cyclone where the largest dust parts goes to the bottom and the small parts go the vacuum. What would be the difference in using something like this:  and using a 5 gallon bucket and make a sitting place for the bucket on top of the CT 22 like Bru explained hereIf It's the same or very similar why would you pay more for the dust deputy or something similar? Just a question? |
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There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.
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quietguy
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jun 2008
Posts: 480
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« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2009, 05:36 PM » |
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The cyclones are much more efficient. The cyclones get the dust and chips out of the airflow, where are the lids do not. The lids work ok, but it has been my experience that nearly all of the find dust still ends up in the vacuum bag.
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Dovetail65
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Feb 2008
Posts: 3764
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« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2009, 08:15 PM » |
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It is weird that the Oneida cyclone portion is so much smaller than the clearvue in size, but works just as well.
I am going to order another as soon as I am able. The Oneida is so good I figure I make my money back quick. One box of 20 CT 33 bags cost me a little over a 100.00 with free shipping and I go through that in 2 months or less.
It is a huge money saver and anything that can save me that much money is worth it.
Dave was it you that went a year with one bag? If that is the case I can not see how anyone could pass up that deal for 160.00.
So simple to put together a 6 year old can do it.
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« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 08:20 PM by nickao »
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Dave Ronyak
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 2228
Flyin' from NE Ohio
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« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2009, 08:24 PM » |
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Yes, Nick, that is me. I'm still using the bag that came with my CT 22E. I also save on bags in my Fein Turbo II by sucking out much of the debris using my CT 22 coupled to the DD cyclone. Key to doing that successfully is to turn down the speed (vacuum level) of the CT 22 so as not to totally collapse the Fein bag. I use the Crevice Nozzle most of the time for this step, and expect to have to withdraw it from the Fein bag to clear blockage of its inlet during this operation. Even so, eventually fine dust buildup on the bag reduces air flow and needs to be replace to restore full cleaning power. Having two vacuum machines and the DD eliminates the need to cut open a bag to empty it, and then having to reseal it. I'm not recommending this procedure to anyone such as yourself whose production time is more important than mine as a hobbyist.
Dave R.
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Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement. PCs...I'm not so sure.
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Dovetail65
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Feb 2008
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« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2009, 08:59 PM » |
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I hate dust so much and even with all the vacs and central cyclone I still deal with dust. I love the dust deputy and if I get even 1/3 of the time out of my bags that you did I will save thousands of dollars over the years.
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Dave Ronyak
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 2228
Flyin' from NE Ohio
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« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2009, 09:02 PM » |
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The DD and likely any other mini-cyclone will do that, especially for those using hand-held planers and routers, even without reusing bags as I have done.
Dave R.
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Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement. PCs...I'm not so sure.
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Jerome
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Location: Japan, Thailand, UK Member Since: May 2007
Posts: 396
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« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2009, 10:48 PM » |
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Jerome is that a work bench your building in the photo? because it sure looks like you can use one, lol wish i could work in flip flops
Yes it is and yes I can. the base is mostly finished. http://www.meekings.net/Workbench-Plan/Workbench_Summer_2007/ The Cyclone/systainer/CT-22 cart and workbench are the two projects I will be working on in 3 weeks time. As to working in flip flops I wish I didn't have to  When I have to wear clothing and Shoes for protection I guess I sweat at about 1L per hour, and that is a lot of water to drink. |
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Jerome TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone. Wish list WoodRat, Workshop supplies drum sander http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/ |
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Dovetail65
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Feb 2008
Posts: 3764
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« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2009, 11:31 PM » |
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Yikes Jerome I could never wear flip flops while working. My feet sweat like crazy and the kids run when I take off my shoes, but I could never be comfortable and feel safe in any way at all in flip flops. I have a foot thing like a soldier in the army. I take care of my feet and could never bring myself to wear flip flops even if not in the shop. Doesn't that hurt your feet and your back after an 8 or 10 hour day in the shop? Be careful and don't drop a corner of a sheet of mdf or ply on those feet!  |
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« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 11:51 PM by nickao »
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Dane
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jan 2008
Posts: 125
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« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2009, 12:45 AM » |
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I used to live in los angeles and lived in my flip flops, that is until the day I dropped the chisel. I stopped wearing flip flops to work after that.
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Jerome
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Location: Japan, Thailand, UK Member Since: May 2007
Posts: 396
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« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2009, 02:30 AM » |
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Yikes Jerome I could never wear flip flops while working. My feet sweat like crazy and the kids run when I take off my shoes, but I could never be comfortable and feel safe in any way at all in flip flops. I have a foot thing like a soldier in the army. I take care of my feet and could never bring myself to wear flip flops even if not in the shop. The problem with that is after about 7am the temperature is seldom under 28C (82F) with a Humidity of at least 50% to 90% and is often over 38C (100F) and my work area can not be air conditioned Doesn't that hurt your feet and your back after an 8 or 10 hour day in the shop?
wearing flip flops doesn't but working with no bench does Be careful and don't drop a corner of a sheet of mdf or ply on those feet! That is when I change into work boots and overalls. But as you can see from the back of my overalls it is not comfortable. http://www.meekings.net/Workbench-Plan/08020014.jpgI have to balance safety with comfort, and of course if you are sweating so much you can't see it is not safe. |
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Jerome TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone. Wish list WoodRat, Workshop supplies drum sander http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/ |
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Dovetail65
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Feb 2008
Posts: 3764
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« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2009, 04:06 AM » |
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No offense Jerome everyone is different. I personally would work naked, but with shoes before I wore flip flops or sandals, no matter the conditions. It might scare the wife though.  |
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« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 04:07 AM by nickao »
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MarkF
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Location: Concord, NC Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 263
Concord, NC
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« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2009, 05:53 AM » |
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Phil Thein's DIY Cyclone Dust Separator is another option. Fine dust collection performance is close to the DD and the CV. Made with spare parts and scrap plywood. http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm |
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Dovetail65
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Feb 2008
Posts: 3764
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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2009, 07:27 AM » |
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Mark I see the two stage, but where is the actual cyclone portion of the unit I do not see it at the link? Or is it actually a two stage?
Some people do mix the terms, but without an actual cyclonic chamber the effect is nowhere near as good.
I just looked at that video at the link and it is not really a cyclone, but a two stage unit, he should rename the page to the "Thein two stage separator".
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« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 07:30 AM by nickao »
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MarkF
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Location: Concord, NC Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 263
Concord, NC
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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2009, 08:10 AM » |
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I agree there is no funnel and it definitely doesn't meet Bill Pentz's design and performance criteria but the baffle does a good job preventing the small and large bits from exiting the container. Much, much better than the store bought plastic seperator lids. There is cyclonic flow in the container. I guess it doesn't have to look like a duck to quack like a duck...huh? |
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Dovetail65
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Feb 2008
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« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2009, 10:09 AM » |
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Yep its a neat design. The store bought ones I never had to much luck with. The video shows that his design does work.
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wnagle
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Location: Akron, Ohio USA Member Since: Apr 2008
Posts: 502
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« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2009, 03:34 PM » |
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I have a store bought lid... It has two 4 inch ports and sits on top of large a metal trash can... I thought I'd use it for jointing and planing ahead of my penn state cyclone. I figured the chips would fill the can and the cyclone would ge the fine dust. The trash can, I could just dump in a large bag... the cyclone is a bit trickier to empty. The cyclone has a bag inside the 35 gallon can with a retainer to keep it on the wall of the can. so it takes a bit more time to empty. Anyways, I tried it and the can started to fill up when jointing a board and when I quit, all the dirt from the can went right into the cyclone. It sucked it right off the bottom! My lid looked like the one above from woodcraft except id didn't have the elbow on one port. I may add one and see if it helps.
Does anyone make an inexpensive add on cyclone like the dust deputy that could go on a larger can, like the metal trash can? I don't think the 10 gallon dust deputy bucket wiil do me much good for my purposes.
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Wayne
TS 55, CT 33 x2, ROTEX 150, RO 90, DOMINO 500Q SET, TRION PS 300, OF 1400, MFT/3, ETS 150/3, KAPEX KS 120.
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Dave Ronyak
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 2228
Flyin' from NE Ohio
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« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2009, 04:00 PM » |
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Phil Thein's DIY Cyclone Dust Separator is another option. Fine dust collection performance is close to the DD and the CV. Made with spare parts and scrap plywood. http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htmMark et al., I note that the author of that link J. Phil Thien includes the warning "Patent applied for." Most people who do this are thus eventually expecting to be paid for use of their patented product or process. I have no further information regarding the plans of Mr. Thien. Of course, until the patent is issued, there are no enforceable patent rights and whatever is published by him can be used by others free of charge until the patent issues. To me, Mr. Thien's design makes much sense. As he states, the baffle is the critical difference in his separator design compared to other's lids with angled ports and nozzles. His design should create a cyclonic swirling effect, flinging the particles toward the walls of the container where they should lose angular velocity and fall down into the can while the cleaned airstream flows back to the center port. One aspect I wonder if he experimented with is inclusion of a small center hole in his baffle. But I expect that most of the swirling and cleaning action is occurring between the top of the can and the baffle, not below it. Dave R. |
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Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement. PCs...I'm not so sure.
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norwegian wood
OfflineMember Since: Jan 2009
Posts: 130
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« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2009, 05:50 PM » |
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I have a store bought lid... It has two 4 inch ports and sits on top of large a metal trash can... I thought I'd use it for jointing and planing ahead of my penn state cyclone. I figured the chips would fill the can and the cyclone would ge the fine dust. The trash can, I could just dump in a large bag... the cyclone is a bit trickier to empty. The cyclone has a bag inside the 35 gallon can with a retainer to keep it on the wall of the can. so it takes a bit more time to empty. Anyways, I tried it and the can started to fill up when jointing a board and when I quit, all the dirt from the can went right into the cyclone. It sucked it right off the bottom! My lid looked like the one above from woodcraft except id didn't have the elbow on one port. I may add one and see if it helps.
Does anyone make an inexpensive add on cyclone like the dust deputy that could go on a larger can, like the metal trash can? I don't think the 10 gallon dust deputy bucket wiil do me much good for my purposes.
you can buy the DIY Dust deputy cyclone kit and bolt it onto any size drum or barrel you like. just make sure you have an aire tight seal on the drum.
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Notorious T.O.D.
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Location: Harrisburg, NC Member Since: Nov 2008
Posts: 488
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« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2009, 06:24 PM » |
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Wayne, I have a Blue Tornado Cyclone and I think they are still sold separately. They are very well made and work great. Not sure about current prices as I got mine 15 years ago... Here is their site... www.bluetornadocyclones.comBest, Todd |
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