What do you mean by special bits?

Just realized the correct term is chucks, not heads. 

Thanks Neeleman! I actually just watched that vid, it left me somewhat puzzled... What do you think is his conclusion? 

All in all I think the Protool is an awesome machine, the torque is great for it's weight and the highest speed setting is simply a bonus. I checked for competition but found nothing in the same class that isn't quite a bit heavier. So that sort of confirms that it is between the Protool and the T18+3 for me. I'm thinking the Protool is the better machine with the extra speed and the hammer.

Anyone else with experience?

I have a Protool pdc 18-4 for almost 4 years now (got it a few weeks before the festool t+3 drills were introduced here) and I got a C12 when the li-ion model came out with the belt clip and the light (just before the cxs was introduced).

You can use all your centrotec bits in both drills, the green and orange centrotec chucks are excheangable aswell, as are the keyless chucks (which, if you have an older model C12 with the keyless chuck that doesn't lock the drills properly is very handy)
The right-angle chuck is not exchangeable, but the protool version is more heavy duty, and doesnt make the weird noise when in use. (but the festool right-angle chuck is easier for quick changing the direction it points in.)
You cannot use the offcentre chuck on the protool drill, but I can't figure an application with that chuck, that requires the additional power over the c12 you already have.
The depth-stop chuck is non exchangeable, but if you get the protool version instead of the festool version it can be used on both drills.

The other cordless drills with hammerfunction always bothered me in the past, because you rarely need that function, but it was always annoying when driving screws etc. because you had to push through it's travel. But on the protool this is not the case, when the hammerfunction is not in action, the chuck is locked in the front position (only less than 1 mm of travel remains).

The 4rth speed of the protool with up to 3800rpm is not a gimmick but actually usefull, it doesn't drain out the battery ridiculously quick and it really saves a lot of time when drilling small holes in steel (NOTE: I use the 4rth speed up to 7mm drills, but only with the cobalt drills I have, the centrotec hss bits don't work well at that speed, they become way too hot and actually cut better at slower speed)

Aside from the higher torque and speed there are other benefits of the protool over the t18:
It comes in a bigger systainer with storage in the lid, and room for a full set of drills underneath the charger, if you leave the bitholder in the centrotec-chuck it can still sit upright in it's position in the systainer inlay (for instance when you leave the keyless chuck on the drill)
The protool comes with an auxiliary handle with depthstoprod, the auxiliary handle is very helpfull when used with bigger holesaws.
The protool drills keep their looks better in jobsite conditions, the wellplaced pieces of rubber in contact areas with the surface when put down on it's side work so well that the protool currently looks "newer" than my c12, also, the plastic beltclips retract by themselves when you put the drill down.

Advantages (for you) of chosing the t18 over a protool drill: you can buy the cheaper version without any extra chucks, since you already have those.
The protool lacks the drill/drive selector which is handy sometimes when you dialed in the torquesetting just right and need to drill holes in between driving.

Less nice experiences I had with the protool drill:

  Something in the electronics broke in the second year and also broke a battery (OR a battery died and broke something in the electronics) the drill got fixed and battery replaced under warranty. (The problem was probably caused by overheating, I was working on top of a flat roof during a heatwave, I left the drill in it's systainer, because I knew li ion batteries don't like the heat from being directly in the sun(from experience with my makita impactdriver), but I think the black color of the systainer got the drill too hot anyway. (just speculation of mine))

  Not really usable in really freezing weather, allthough that got better over time. (It got a bit better the second winter, and the next one it worked almost as normal)

  Second battery died a few months out of the 3 year warranty. (funny fact, I got a new 3.0 Ah version to replace the broken 2.6Ah version, and the 3.0Ah version is actually lighter in weight (not much only 40 grams or so))

I also have the 14.4 brushless makita impactdriver, and the bosch I- driver, in case I can't reach with the right angle chucks, because there's no room for the drill-body itself.

Thanks Frank-Jan, that is extremely helpful! It will be the Protool for sure then. Now I only have to figure out when the new models are coming exactly.

Thanks so much!

Bob, you're welcome. The protool drill was a tool I had quite a sticker shock over after the impulse buy, (especially since I also spent alot on centrotec stuff) but I'm still very happy every day that I got it.

If your dealers are trying to sell the older models first, before updating their inventory, you can just order the new model by partnumber, they're available now (I ordered the 3.0Ah battery just a few weeks ago, I was also waiting for the new models, and used a 10.8 V battery from my duradrive as a spare battery while waiting)

Link to Swiss protool site

/edit: I'm typing too slow, in both posts I ignored the red warning of other messages posted, so I didn't see Neeleman's post, but I would certainly check with your dealer if they can order by partnumber and get it sooner, I got my parallelguides that way before they were listed on the Dutch or Belgian festool site.

Oh boy..... That's going to be a long wait.... I will try to get it sooner through the part number for sure but not holding my breath when Gerschwitz is being so specific with the release week.

What is common with Protool/Festool? Do they stick to those promises or might it well be a bit later? With my current planning week 32 is really pushing it. If their releases tend to get delayed I might feel tempted to get an older model for a nice price.

Thanks Neeleman, I've emailed them just now to see what's up. I still need to get them in Switzerland but at least then I'll know whether they are actually available right now. Or if they can ship to me without taxes that should work.

Thinking about getting the impact drill (without batteries) too and then try to sell my Makitas. For some reason I never grew to them, they are fine though so who knows I'll find someone for them around here.

Just to be sure I'm making the right move (lot of money...) I'll pass by Hilti this week and check out their models. That is the only brand I noticed that seems interesting. That 22V impact unit looks really nice, need to check the regular drill to make up my mind, it looks very outdated somehow. It is hard to find Hilti prices online though... They have the fleet pricing going full on now, irritating.  Never really understood that, in the end anyone buying more than one machine is going to ask for a discount so why the fuzz? But I suppose that's the point, I have to get to the store and deal with a sales guy who is going to be all over me explaining the benefits of their service and blahblahblah. Oh well...

Thanks everyone!! This has been really helpful! Take care, Bob.

Yes, that impact looks very very nice! And the prices is on the same level then, sort of...

I like the design (short) and weight (lite) of the Hilti impact a lot better than the Protool impact which seems rather long and heavy at 2,3 kilos. Man!! I so do not like choices....
It seems I really need to hold these puppies and see for myself. I hope somebody has the Protool impact around here, never seen it once. Otherwise I might end up with a Hilti impact next to a Protool drill, seems a shame somehow, those extra batteries.

Neeleman, you have the Festool T18 and 15 Impact, are there moments where you miss some extra juice?

cheers, Bob.

Sorry I can't help you Bob, but whatever you choose can you do us all a favour and report back on your choices and what you think of them. I myself do not know which I would choose the Protool or Festool. And with the TI 15 coming it throws more options into the mix. Good luck.

Neelemen: I'm curious how you like your TI15? Just in regards to the impact driver abilities? I have been reading on another thread that it is not nearly as powerful as a T15 for drilling but really the most important thing I would think is how it compares to other impact drivers. Thanks!

Hi Dogwood, don't worry, I will report back with experience from the field. Just don't hold your breath because this isn't getting any easier, because......

I went to a couple stores today to check out whatever they had. So I played with the Protool PDC, very cool but initial impression was that it is bulky compared to my C12. Now it isn't so bulky I cannot see it happening, I understand it is a very powerful machine, more powerful than the C12 (which feels like part of my hand after all those years using C models )and intended for rougher work and I think I can get used to it. Because it feels good too, it is a cool machine, nice balance and not as heavy as it looks. So I can def see myself getting that one just need to sniff it some more and I'll try to wait for the new model.

So than I looked for the impact model IWC. It was hard to miss, hanging on the wall there because it is HUGE!! It is a huge and heavy machine, when I said the PDC is bulky, this IWC feels way more bulky and just too heavy. I mean, consider it is made to screw a lot of screws for a living and most impact drivers are compact models, why is this so BIG? I've not held it next to the PDC but I'm sure when you but a centrotec on both the IWC is longer. In any case, this thing is not happening for me, I just don't understand it.

I quickly checked a Makita 18V (not too bad but not what I want right now) and Dewalt (done with Dewalt) and went next door to Hilti.

I can be brief here, my experience was the same as with Protool only revers and a bit more extreme. Their 22volt Impact is just the coolest impact I've ever seen or held, WOW! It is very compact and light despite the big 22volt 3Ah battery. I know this is the one, it's a no brainer.
Then their 22volt cordless drill, what can I say.... that thing is just silly huge. Using capitals isn't enough to try to tell how huge it is. If there had been a 22 volt cordless drill in 1990, this would have been it. For sure.

So to sum it up, I'm trying to justify buying the Hilti Impact with two batteries etc PLUS possibly the new Protool PDC also with two batteries etc because any other choice just doesn't seem to make sense now... 

Any brands I've not mentioned so far? I've checked Bosch, Makita, Dewalt, Fein, Festool, Protool, Metabo (only online though, think it is not for me but wouldn't mind checking those in the flesh), Hitachi and Panasonic (their 14,4 models are great but the others seem less so). What have I missed apart from brands only available in North America?

Cheers, Bob.

The IWC is not an impact driver, it's an impact WRENCH. That's something different. The hex slot on the shaft is only there for extra comfort since it fitted anyway. The main duty of the IWC is to drive bolts, not screws, like when you're building carcasses out of metal I-beams.  

Thanks Alex, that makes sense. Not made for my line of work then, thought it was weird that it was so much longer but that explains it.

I've sent you a PM btw, what are your preferences?

Cheers, Bob.

Alright, that does sound powerful.  Maybe I should check it again, I really have my hart set on that SID, I could get the bare SFH body for relatively cheap to go with it, a lot cheaper than the Protool AND the SID...

Oh man.... I don't like choices. Unless they are already made, then they're fine I suppose.

...then the red systainers. Those are nice!