Author Topic: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?  (Read 6999 times)

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Offline JimH2

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2017, 09:05 AM »
OUS distribution will open vast new markets with TTS knowing how to work so many countries. 

I am not sure what will get accomplished in the US.  We've got to get safety on these contractors machines.  I can't believe how all of the CHEAP contractors who are out there doing home improvement work are having teenagers who have absolutely no idea on safety out there ripping construction material with no splitters, no anti kickback prongs etc.   Fingers close to the blade.  I don't think this move will get the technology on cheaper blades.   I personally have no problem with lawyers suing the heck out of these contractors.  Unfortunately most of them don't have any pockets at all.  Most of them are not the sharpest pencils in the box.

Dewalt  Stanley would be a good one to sue.  They seem to have pockets to buy everything.

I just witnessed something awful last Thursday.   Totally turned off by Dewalt and their dangerous stuff

Don't throw a grenade like this and not follow up with whatever it is you saw. Considering you are listed as a Festool dealer slandering a competing manufacturer is petty and completely unnecessary. It's also fairly typical for retail.

...and suing a company because they have deep pockets or because of how their customers use the saws it is what is wrong with the American legal system. The DeWalt and other manufacturers instruction manuals go into detail on proper usage of the saw and safety devices. Choosing not read or follow them is up to the end user, much like operating a vehicle recklessly or at high rates of speed.

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Offline JimH2

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2017, 09:07 AM »
I hope they don't paint the sawstop saws green and double the price.
Not immediately. First, Kapex team will make some motor improvements to SawStop.

It took me a second to catch the sarcasm in your post. I definitely do not want Festool tweaking the motor in my SawStop. Another way to look at this is that maybe Festool bought SawStop for their motor designs.

Offline antss

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2017, 10:43 AM »
It's possible since SS has a 110v jobsite saw and we don't hear about it crapping out when used to cut think material.

But that's an expensive fix for a problem that is claimed to not be a problem.  ::)

Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2017, 12:10 PM »
Really?  Industrial motors, single or 3 phase (which I am sure they just use whatever manufacturer of motors gives them the best deal) are not even close to the induction motors in power tools. 

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2017, 12:28 PM »
Lets not make this into a Kapex motor thread. We have plenty of those.

Seth

Offline glass1

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2017, 12:59 PM »
Let's keep the issue on the safety. Back to the kapex and safety. In my opinion it's the most dangerous scms on the market so adopting flesh sensing tech makes sense. In my opinion why is it so dangerous. 2 reasons, the blade guard is inside the head housing making it close to the blade. If it deflects it catches the blade easily and boom. Secondly one cannot hold the blade guard with ones thumb when doing long compound cuts and/or cuts with a very small off cut. The blade guard hangs up on long cuts and when there is a small off cut the guard will often knock it into the blade and boom it's flying. Hold down clamps are for special cuts or part time hobbyists. In a production environment forget it.

Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2017, 01:06 PM »
In 6 years I have never had an issue with the blade guard on my kapex. I am not into pinning/thumbing guards back. So glad that I don't have to use those old makitas anymore that it was the only way you could cut something.

I have cut my index finger twice with a miter saw, nothing can protect me from being stupid and reaching behind the blade.

Offline glass1

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2017, 01:48 PM »
In the 40 years I have owned a pinto the gas tank never blew up must be nothing wrong. All kidding aside every carpenter/woodworker I know outside this forum who owns a kapex even the ones who like it all agree the ergonomics are not good. The trigger safety and blade guard suck. The are clunky at best.

Offline glass1

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2017, 01:53 PM »
One more thing if holding the blade guard back with ones thumb (not pinning it back) is so bad why does the hk and hkc saws have a thumb depress on the guard so you can ...... you guessed it hold the guard up so....... you guessed it ..... it does not hang up and cause a safety issue.

Offline TylerC

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2017, 01:59 PM »
This is definitely exciting and interesting news. There are a lot of questions right now, but I definitely think that this is a very positive move.

I wouldn't anticipate any significant changes any time soon. SawStop has a strong brand in the US market. We don't want to interrupt the system that has made them successful.

Some of you asked about bringing SawStop to Europe or Asia. Here's an answer that I received from HQ:

"Following the take-over, we will look into plans for expansion with SawStop and will put such plans into practice if and to the extent that they are promising to be successful. We will be taking these decisions at a subsequent point in time."
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 02:25 PM by TylerC »

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2017, 02:11 PM »
Where is the Sawstop kit made - US, Taiwan, elsewhere ?

Does Sawstop have any European manufacturing connection ?

Will the (many) Sawstop patent rights go lock stock and barrel to TTS ?

Are any of those patents applicable to tools other than table saws ?

How do Bosch figure in this ?

Peter

Offline TylerC

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2017, 02:46 PM »
Where is the Sawstop kit made - US, Taiwan, elsewhere ?

Does Sawstop have any European manufacturing connection ?

Will the (many) Sawstop patent rights go lock stock and barrel to TTS ?

Are any of those patents applicable to tools other than table saws ?

How do Bosch figure in this ?

Peter

TTS will also take over SawStop's portfolio of patents. Beyond that, I really can't comment on anything else yet.

Offline ben_r_

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2017, 04:41 PM »
Where is the Sawstop kit made - US, Taiwan, elsewhere ?

Does Sawstop have any European manufacturing connection ?

Will the (many) Sawstop patent rights go lock stock and barrel to TTS ?

Are any of those patents applicable to tools other than table saws ?

How do Bosch figure in this ?

Peter
Saws are made in Taiwan.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Wooden Skye

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2017, 08:10 PM »
I don't think the safety feature of the SawStop would be effective on the Kapex or other miter saw.  First I believe the Kapex is to light to handle the jarring nature of the brake stopping the blade.  Second sort of builds off the first the saw would need to be bolted to a solid surface, which eliminates the portability aspect.
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino DF 500, 2 domino systainers, ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, (2) OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

Offline glass1

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2017, 08:36 PM »
Maybe festool can redesign that crap sawstop contractor saw

Offline Andre Prudhomme

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2017, 11:26 PM »
I think this acquisition makes sense from a business perspective. A few thoughts:

1) Saw Stop products are built around a few unique features that help them command a premium price from the customers who highly value those features, much like Festool.

2) Festool doesn't create lawsuit risk by having a "safety" table saw on the market. For some other companies, acquiring Saw Stop would lead to more (or more effective) lawsuits against them. The acquisition would be an implicit admission that their existing tools were dangerous.

3) The Saw Stop sale is evangelistic, requiring the company to sell customers on both the importance of the problem and their solution to it. Festool has experience with this kind of marketing and will be able to further amplify the SawStop message. Consider the similarities to dust collection.

Granat Abrasive Sponge | Systainer Mini | Festool Sticker

Offline James Biddle

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2017, 04:01 PM »
Question for those with a SawStop; is the saw equipped with electrical breaking during normal shutdown that would allow it to stop within EU regulations?

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2017, 04:19 PM »
Someone said to me the other day that the number of table saw accidents in North America runs at nearly 100 times that in Europe. It is mostly due (so I am told) to the lack of a riving knife and blade guard on NA machines.

Maybe that is why Sawstop has not penetrated the European market.

Peter

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2017, 04:34 PM »
Someone said to me the other day that the number of table saw accidents in North America runs at nearly 100 times that in Europe. It is mostly due (so I am told) to the lack of a riving knife and blade guard on NA machines.

Maybe that is why Sawstop has not penetrated the European market.

Peter

So your detailed analysis come from "someone said to me"

Come on Peter 3 minutes of googling proves that statement wrong. With a reputation like yours  you should site studies not hearsay.

When you put up videos and post information on various woodworking topics and come across as an expert to some people you need be more careful with the things you say. It is a responsibility I won't take and the main reason I dont post videos on tool use or how I make my items.

I post as some random person that only claims to know what I know from my personal use. Once a person or company is listed as a retailer on this forum and post professional videos and writes articles I think the standard needs  be higher.

Some newbs take your word as gospel so be careful.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 04:44 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline amt

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2017, 05:40 PM »
Question for those with a SawStop; is the saw equipped with electrical breaking during normal shutdown that would allow it to stop within EU regulations?

No

Offline antss

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2017, 09:35 PM »
Maybe SS hasn't penetrated the EU market because there is much of one to be had.

Cabinet saws like SS, PM66, Unisaw ect... are just not popular.  The hobbyist doesn't have the space and the mom and pop shops just get a slider.  Then there's the hurdle of an American brand that's actually made in Asia.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2017, 03:34 AM »
Someone said to me the other day that the number of table saw accidents in North America runs at nearly 100 times that in Europe. It is mostly due (so I am told) to the lack of a riving knife and blade guard on NA machines.

Maybe that is why Sawstop has not penetrated the European market.

Peter

So your detailed analysis come from "someone said to me"

Come on Peter 3 minutes of googling proves that statement wrong. With a reputation like yours  you should site studies not hearsay.

When you put up videos and post information on various woodworking topics and come across as an expert to some people you need be more careful with the things you say. It is a responsibility I won't take and the main reason I dont post videos on tool use or how I make my items.

I post as some random person that only claims to know what I know from my personal use. Once a person or company is listed as a retailer on this forum and post professional videos and writes articles I think the standard needs  be higher.

Some newbs take your word as gospel so be careful.

So, you want me censored in that I cannot mention something that someone else said to me ?

The Woodworkers Guild of America analysed the 2011 accident statistics and estimate that 39,750 accidents involved the table saw:

https://www.wwgoa.com/article/shop-accident-statistics-woodworking-safety/

Getting any statistics from the UK is not easy, however the UK Health and Safety Executive have analysed figures over the 2013/14 and 2014/15 period. Covering all manufacturing industries (I could not single out woodworking from what was presented) 7,920 injuries per year involved contact with machinery:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/Statistics/industry/manufacturing/index.htm

I have no way of finding out how many of those UK injuries were from woodworking. Woodworking only accounts for £3.8 billion of the £1,940 billion UK economy. Manufacturing represents about 10% of the economy and so the injuries on a (risky) pro rata basis is under 200 in that period.

Peter


Offline Bob D.

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2017, 04:24 AM »
"It is mostly due (so I am told) to the lack of a riving knife and blade guard on NA machines."

I am n to taking objection to your post at all Peter but I think whoever told you this (above)
misstated the problem. Blade guards have been on NA table saws for decades, riving knives
have been there for about 8 years as a requirement, some better quality saws had them before
they were required.

But where the problem lies as it does with any safety device any on the globe is that if you don't
use it as intended or defeat its function then it is worthless and that is where the majority of the
problem is, people don't use the guard when they could or should. I firmly believe that all the
YouTubers and TV shows which continue to show table saws being used without guards for the
purpose of being able to photograph the cut is wrong and leads people to assume that they can
get away with it too.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline kevinculle

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2017, 08:02 AM »
In order to make any meaningful statement about the relative proportion of TS injuries in the USA vs GB (or anywhere else) it is necessary to compare the relative RATES of TS injury incidents.  At the simplest one would calculate the number of injuries per million saws, or per million saw users.  Ideally the number of injuries per million hours of TS operation would be most revealing.

Considering that GB has a bit more than 1/5th the population of the USA and likely a much lower proportion of TSs in use the raw injury numbers are nearly meaningless.

Offline TylerC

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2017, 10:02 AM »
I've removed a few comments about politics, which we don't allow on this forum.

Offline leakyroof

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2017, 10:16 AM »
"It is mostly due (so I am told) to the lack of a riving knife and blade guard on NA machines."

I am n to taking objection to your post at all Peter but I think whoever told you this (above)
misstated the problem. Blade guards have been on NA table saws for decades, riving knives
have been there for about 8 years as a requirement, some better quality saws had them before
they were required.

But where the problem lies as it does with any safety device any on the globe is that if you don't
use it as intended or defeat its function then it is worthless and that is where the majority of the
problem is, people don't use the guard when they could or should. I firmly believe that all the
YouTubers and TV shows which continue to show table saws being used without guards for the
purpose of being able to photograph the cut is wrong and leads people to assume that they can
get away with it too.
  I've always felt that too. So many DIY and other HGTV shows that have someone flailing away on a Table saw, usually a Contractor or Portable model with no Blade Guard in sight... [blink]
 Once in a while you'll see the usage of a Push Stick, but even that's rare.... [scared]
 
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline ewils91

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2017, 05:42 PM »
I'm thinking that they will make the purchase, acquire the patents and then wait for it....NAINA will be announced. Jus Sayin... [crying]