Author Topic: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?  (Read 6979 times)

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Online Cheese

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2017, 01:46 PM »
Well that's certainly interesting...who'd have thunk.

Maybe the Reaxx will once again see the light of day. TTS could strike up a licensing deal with Bosch just like Tanos now does.

Online Gerald_D

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2017, 02:01 PM »
Interesting indeed- makes me wonder if this is to get the patents and enter the portable table saw market and offer safety feature, or if they have other innovations in mind.  Time will tell.  Either way, will be watching.

Regards,
Gerald
Gerald
I have Festools- Big and Small and a few other tools

Offline Kev

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2017, 02:06 PM »
I would have preferred a ground breaking innovation ... not particularly impressed with this!

Offline ChuckM

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2017, 02:52 PM »
Sounds good news to me for these two innovative entities to work together. But SawStop has enjoyed a better customer service reputation than Festool (judging from many comments seen on this forum about lukewarm or lack of responses to service requests). So far, I have had no need for service from either company and I hope it will stay that way, till my tools are done their useful life.

It will be great news if one day Kapex saws are offered with a finger-saving feature.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 03:45 PM by ChuckM »

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2017, 03:17 PM »
Hi!

Very curious of what the future will hold in terms of this endeavor  [smile]  [smile]  [smile]

Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2017, 03:45 PM »
Sounds good news to me for these two innovative entities to work together. But SawStop has enjoyed a better customer reputation than Festool (judging many comments seen on this forum about lukewarm or lack of responses to service requests). So far, I have had no need for service from either company and I hope it will stay that way, till my tools are done their useful life.

It will be great news if one day Kapex saws are offered with a finger-saving feature.

This is where I get very confused when people talk about safety ... the biggest danger from a properly used SCMS is not chopping off your finder! I'll also be very interested how a "saw stop feature" will operate on an SCMS ... maybe it'll save your finger by launching the blade straight into your face [big grin]

Offline ChuckM

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2017, 03:49 PM »

This is where I get very confused when people talk about safety ... the biggest danger from a properly used SCMS is not chopping off your finder! I'll also be very interested how a "saw stop feature" will operate on an SCMS ... maybe it'll save your finger by launching the blade straight into your face [big grin]

Finger injuries from using the mitre saws happen; simply google it to find the gruesome pictures or videos. Finger cuts may not be the biggest danger in your book but they are what I am most scared of when using the Kapex, much more than kickback.

I have switched my tablesaw to the SawStop and I'd switch my bandsaw to a SawStop bandsaw, too, if it existed.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 03:53 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Kev

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2017, 03:58 PM »

This is where I get very confused when people talk about safety ... the biggest danger from a properly used SCMS is not chopping off your finder! I'll also be very interested how a "saw stop feature" will operate on an SCMS ... maybe it'll save your finger by launching the blade straight into your face [big grin]

Finger injuries from using the mitre saws happen; simply google it to find the gruesome pictures or videos. Finger cuts may not be the biggest danger in your book but they are what I am most scared of when using the Kapex, ahead of the kickback danger.

Again .. really surprised. Clamp your workpiece and your fingers are no where near that sharp spinning thing. I've seen plenty of youtube videos of saw related injuries and I'm yet to see one where the operator was cut by then blade and wasn't being careless or stupid.


Offline Linbro

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2017, 04:30 PM »
Believe me Kev - very few people even install the clamps/hold downs on their mitre saws, let alone actually use them!

Offline Bob D.

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2017, 04:40 PM »
Believe me Kev - very few people even install the clamps/hold downs on their mitre saws, let alone actually use them!

Same for table saws and bandsaws. How many people run their bandsaw with the blade guard over an inch above the workpiece. The son of a good friend of mine almost cut his thumb off on a old 12" bandsaw. Sliced up his hand between the thumb and index finger about 2 inches because the blade guard was all the way up with ~6 inches of blade exposed. Took years but he has full use of the hand again, and a nice scar to show for his carelessness. Though the fault may really lie with not being taught the safe way to use the tool.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Holmz

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2017, 04:40 PM »
I would have preferred a ground breaking innovation ... not particularly impressed with this!

The Domino and Kapex fall into innovation.
The vacuum, routers, sanders, systainers, belt sander etc all started out as a rebadging effort.

It is in the realm of possibility that TTS could licence the patent to Bosch (etc), but they would hold the patent - so it is at their whim.

Offline antss

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2017, 04:45 PM »
Thinking Bosch is somehow going to strike a deal now that TTS is the owner is a bit naive.

Commonality of the country both companies are based in is just not going to win the day. Bosch didn't want to license from SS originally. Do you think the price is going to be less now that TTS has to factor in their new debt in acquiring SS ? 

Clock is ticking on the patents anyway, and this deal with take a while to actually consummate.  Leaving Bosch with even less time to wait until re inntroducing their saw back in the USA. 

This is more about diversification on the part of TTS than it is anything else.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2017, 05:14 PM »
Believe me Kev - very few people even install the clamps/hold downs on their mitre saws, let alone actually use them!

I have yet to see a woodworker using the clamping unit that comes with the non-Kapex saws. The attached photo shows a saw that has been used in the past few days by my neighbor...with the clamp never engaged.

When I use the Kapex, I always clamp the workpiece down even if it is four feet long  EXCEPT when the piece is too short to be clamped down. In that case, I use a shop-made hold-down, taking zero risk with the blade. After all, the clamping unit is a $118 accessory and not using it is stupid from the financial perspective.

The finger-saving feature is an insurance policy, just like the airbags and seat belts as far as I am concerned. Before and after the SawStop purchase, I have had a zero saw (any saw, not just the tablesaw) injury record. Correction: I did suffer some minor cuts from using the handsaws.

I have seen videos showing some well-known woodworkers using a mitre saw (one was the Kapex) cutting moudling or a piece with their hand/fingers close to the line of fire (i.e. inside the danger zone which is marked on the saw table/bed!
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 05:18 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Holmz

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2017, 05:36 PM »
Thinking Bosch is somehow going to strike a deal now that TTS is the owner is a bit naive.
...

Correct. There is no moral or legal basis that they requires them to provide finger saving technology. They are in a business of selling tools and protecting their legal interests.

It is theoretically possible that a deal can be struck, but they (TTS) have the barrel ready for whomever wants to license the technology. In the end it is the customer who has their turn WRT the barrel.

Offline kcufstoidi

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2017, 06:06 PM »
Now that's funny, what do you think, are they going to move the operation from China. Hopefully they will improve the blade destroying, antiquated tech.

John

Offline amt

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2017, 06:16 PM »
I hope they don't paint the sawstop saws green and double the price. 

Offline Svar

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2017, 06:19 PM »
I hope they don't paint the sawstop saws green and double the price.
Not immediately. First, Kapex team will make some motor improvements to SawStop.

Online Cheese

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2017, 06:29 PM »
Not immediately. First, Kapex team will make some motor improvements to SawStop.

 [thumbs up] [dead horse] [thumbs up]

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 212
Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2017, 06:31 PM »

Not immediately. First, Kapex team will make some motor improvements to SawStop.

 [mad] --->  [big grin] ;D

I am going to bolt my SawStop down on the shop floor, and chain the motor to the saw, its motor being the Pre-TTS (or Pre-Festool) version. If people couldn't steal my saw (400 lbs), they could steal my motor!
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 06:34 PM by ChuckM »

Offline ali

  • Posts: 140
Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2017, 06:41 PM »
Hopefully might mean Sawstop products become more available outside of USA  [cool]

Offline RKA

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2017, 07:11 PM »
Hopefully might mean Sawstop products become more available outside of USA  [cool]

I think that's what it's all about.  TTS' distribution network can efficiently get this saw to other large markets and support it.  SS has already proven there is room in the market for this saw.  US patent apps may be expiring, not sure how much longer that clock has to run in other large markets.  Since the acquisition is scheduled to complete in July, we might know where this ship is sailing in a matter of months.
-Raj

Offline RDMuller

  • Posts: 254
Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2017, 07:29 PM »
OUS distribution will open vast new markets with TTS knowing how to work so many countries. 

I am not sure what will get accomplished in the US.  We've got to get safety on these contractors machines.  I can't believe how all of the CHEAP contractors who are out there doing home improvement work are having teenagers who have absolutely no idea on safety out there ripping construction material with no splitters, no anti kickback prongs etc.   Fingers close to the blade.  I don't think this move will get the technology on cheaper blades.   I personally have no problem with lawyers suing the heck out of these contractors.  Unfortunately most of them don't have any pockets at all.  Most of them are not the sharpest pencils in the box.

Dewalt  Stanley would be a good one to sue.  They seem to have pockets to buy everything.

I just witnessed something awful last Thursday.   Totally turned off by Dewalt and their dangerous stuff

Offline estley

  • Posts: 96
Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2017, 08:43 PM »
I imagine they'll make green replacements for all the red components of the saws and sell them in a systainer for $900, and call it the "saw rebranding kit.... let me know where to sign up


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Offline Rip Van Winkle

  • Posts: 273
Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2017, 09:13 PM »
One of the main reasons some woodworkers won't purchase a SawStop saw is because of the various "selling tactics" Steve Gass the inventor used to try to sell his technology to the woodworking industry. If Gass is out if the picture going forward this might make the saw more palatable to those who would absolutely not purchase a Sawstop saw because of Gass.

Frim past discussions it's been mentioned that the SawStop mechanism may not meet European safety standards, but that the Bosch Reaxx, because it lacks the aluminum break, does. Is Sawstop going to work out an agreement with Bosch to cross license their respective patents, so Festool can sell Sawstop saws in Europe, and Bosch can resume selling the Reaxx in the USA?



I notice the  Festool brand is listed on the PowerToolInstitute website,

http://www.powertoolinstitute.com/pti-pages/mb-member-brand-profiles.asp

But the listing doesn't include the * indicating Festool is a member of the institute. Neither TTS or any of the other TTS companies are listed either. Did Festool/TTS initiate the purchase, or was SawStop up for sale, and TTS was the only company who would make an offer, since Gass and Sawstop sued all the other member of the Power Tool Institute?


Offline KescoNY

  • Posts: 113
Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2017, 09:19 PM »
This may explain a lengthy survey festool was conducting at their roadshow few months back. Did anyone else do the survey ?
I was wondering why they seemed to focus mainly on table saw features.

I figured they were going to offer the cms insert in NA.  Maybe a sawstop cms insert  [unsure]
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Offline bkharman

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2017, 09:33 PM »
This may explain a lengthy survey festool was conducting at their roadshow few months back. Did anyone else do the survey ?
I was wondering why they seemed to focus mainly on table saw features.

I figured they were going to offer the cms insert in NA.  Maybe a sawstop cms insert  [unsure]

I saw the survey but didn't think it was heading this way. Time will tell but I may have to change my tune on a CMSS insert. If they offered a full contractors saw, not sure I would invest. If TTS had a small license fee to sell the IP, I would be a happy person to see the tech grow

Cheers. Bryan.


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Offline antss

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2017, 09:58 PM »
I hope they don't paint the sawstop saws green and double the price.
Not immediately. First, Kapex team will make some motor improvements to SawStop.

 [big grin] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

now,  that's funny.

I think it's pretty much a given that TTS will stay out of the way at SS.  We haven't seen navy, grey and green livery on the compressors since TTS took over Schneider Druckluft GmbH.  We also won't see tablesaw production moved to Germany either.

We are likely to see the 5-9% annual price increase though.  [wink]

Offline Cincinnati

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2017, 10:58 PM »
Maybe they will design a better sliding table accessory.


Online Peter Halle

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2017, 06:56 AM »
I think that the combination of companies will be very interesting to watch evolve.

Regarding the comments on a survey about table saws ; in 2013 or 2014 FESTOOL had a focus group meeting at JLC Live where the attendees were asked all sort of questions regarding table saws and it was evident that they were doing research towards the possible development of a portable contractor type table saw for the North American market.  I wasn't part of the focus group so I can't offer any more specifics.

If you take the normal FESTOOL product development process timeline then add in the acquisition of the company that has hundreds of patents ( the real worth of the company) regarding personal safety devices on saws and other tools then I could see the patent headaches cured and a real possibility of a table saw coming to fruition.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.