Author Topic: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?  (Read 5667 times)

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Offline Cheese

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2017, 01:46 PM »
Well that's certainly interesting...who'd have thunk.

Maybe the Reaxx will once again see the light of day. TTS could strike up a licensing deal with Bosch just like Tanos now does.

Online Gerald_D

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2017, 02:01 PM »
Interesting indeed- makes me wonder if this is to get the patents and enter the portable table saw market and offer safety feature, or if they have other innovations in mind.  Time will tell.  Either way, will be watching.

Regards,
Gerald
Gerald
I have Festools- Big and Small and a few other tools

Offline Kev

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2017, 02:06 PM »
I would have preferred a ground breaking innovation ... not particularly impressed with this!

Offline ChuckM

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2017, 02:52 PM »
Sounds good news to me for these two innovative entities to work together. But SawStop has enjoyed a better customer service reputation than Festool (judging from many comments seen on this forum about lukewarm or lack of responses to service requests). So far, I have had no need for service from either company and I hope it will stay that way, till my tools are done their useful life.

It will be great news if one day Kapex saws are offered with a finger-saving feature.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 03:45 PM by ChuckM »

Online six-point socket II

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2017, 03:17 PM »
Hi!

Very curious of what the future will hold in terms of this endeavor  [smile]  [smile]  [smile]

Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Kev

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2017, 03:45 PM »
Sounds good news to me for these two innovative entities to work together. But SawStop has enjoyed a better customer reputation than Festool (judging many comments seen on this forum about lukewarm or lack of responses to service requests). So far, I have had no need for service from either company and I hope it will stay that way, till my tools are done their useful life.

It will be great news if one day Kapex saws are offered with a finger-saving feature.

This is where I get very confused when people talk about safety ... the biggest danger from a properly used SCMS is not chopping off your finder! I'll also be very interested how a "saw stop feature" will operate on an SCMS ... maybe it'll save your finger by launching the blade straight into your face [big grin]

Offline ChuckM

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2017, 03:49 PM »

This is where I get very confused when people talk about safety ... the biggest danger from a properly used SCMS is not chopping off your finder! I'll also be very interested how a "saw stop feature" will operate on an SCMS ... maybe it'll save your finger by launching the blade straight into your face [big grin]

Finger injuries from using the mitre saws happen; simply google it to find the gruesome pictures or videos. Finger cuts may not be the biggest danger in your book but they are what I am most scared of when using the Kapex, much more than kickback.

I have switched my tablesaw to the SawStop and I'd switch my bandsaw to a SawStop bandsaw, too, if it existed.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 03:53 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Kev

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2017, 03:58 PM »

This is where I get very confused when people talk about safety ... the biggest danger from a properly used SCMS is not chopping off your finder! I'll also be very interested how a "saw stop feature" will operate on an SCMS ... maybe it'll save your finger by launching the blade straight into your face [big grin]

Finger injuries from using the mitre saws happen; simply google it to find the gruesome pictures or videos. Finger cuts may not be the biggest danger in your book but they are what I am most scared of when using the Kapex, ahead of the kickback danger.

Again .. really surprised. Clamp your workpiece and your fingers are no where near that sharp spinning thing. I've seen plenty of youtube videos of saw related injuries and I'm yet to see one where the operator was cut by then blade and wasn't being careless or stupid.


Offline Linbro

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2017, 04:30 PM »
Believe me Kev - very few people even install the clamps/hold downs on their mitre saws, let alone actually use them!

Offline Bob D.

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2017, 04:40 PM »
Believe me Kev - very few people even install the clamps/hold downs on their mitre saws, let alone actually use them!

Same for table saws and bandsaws. How many people run their bandsaw with the blade guard over an inch above the workpiece. The son of a good friend of mine almost cut his thumb off on a old 12" bandsaw. Sliced up his hand between the thumb and index finger about 2 inches because the blade guard was all the way up with ~6 inches of blade exposed. Took years but he has full use of the hand again, and a nice scar to show for his carelessness. Though the fault may really lie with not being taught the safe way to use the tool.
-----
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Offline Holmz

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2017, 04:40 PM »
I would have preferred a ground breaking innovation ... not particularly impressed with this!

The Domino and Kapex fall into innovation.
The vacuum, routers, sanders, systainers, belt sander etc all started out as a rebadging effort.

It is in the realm of possibility that TTS could licence the patent to Bosch (etc), but they would hold the patent - so it is at their whim.

Offline antss

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2017, 04:45 PM »
Thinking Bosch is somehow going to strike a deal now that TTS is the owner is a bit naive.

Commonality of the country both companies are based in is just not going to win the day. Bosch didn't want to license from SS originally. Do you think the price is going to be less now that TTS has to factor in their new debt in acquiring SS ? 

Clock is ticking on the patents anyway, and this deal with take a while to actually consummate.  Leaving Bosch with even less time to wait until re inntroducing their saw back in the USA. 

This is more about diversification on the part of TTS than it is anything else.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2017, 05:14 PM »
Believe me Kev - very few people even install the clamps/hold downs on their mitre saws, let alone actually use them!

I have yet to see a woodworker using the clamping unit that comes with the non-Kapex saws. The attached photo shows a saw that has been used in the past few days by my neighbor...with the clamp never engaged.

When I use the Kapex, I always clamp the workpiece down even if it is four feet long  EXCEPT when the piece is too short to be clamped down. In that case, I use a shop-made hold-down, taking zero risk with the blade. After all, the clamping unit is a $118 accessory and not using it is stupid from the financial perspective.

The finger-saving feature is an insurance policy, just like the airbags and seat belts as far as I am concerned. Before and after the SawStop purchase, I have had a zero saw (any saw, not just the tablesaw) injury record. Correction: I did suffer some minor cuts from using the handsaws.

I have seen videos showing some well-known woodworkers using a mitre saw (one was the Kapex) cutting moudling or a piece with their hand/fingers close to the line of fire (i.e. inside the danger zone which is marked on the saw table/bed!
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 05:18 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Holmz

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2017, 05:36 PM »
Thinking Bosch is somehow going to strike a deal now that TTS is the owner is a bit naive.
...

Correct. There is no moral or legal basis that they requires them to provide finger saving technology. They are in a business of selling tools and protecting their legal interests.

It is theoretically possible that a deal can be struck, but they (TTS) have the barrel ready for whomever wants to license the technology. In the end it is the customer who has their turn WRT the barrel.

Offline kcufstoidi

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2017, 06:06 PM »
Now that's funny, what do you think, are they going to move the operation from China. Hopefully they will improve the blade destroying, antiquated tech.

John

Offline amt

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2017, 06:16 PM »
I hope they don't paint the sawstop saws green and double the price. 

Offline Svar

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2017, 06:19 PM »
I hope they don't paint the sawstop saws green and double the price.
Not immediately. First, Kapex team will make some motor improvements to SawStop.

Offline Cheese

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2017, 06:29 PM »
Not immediately. First, Kapex team will make some motor improvements to SawStop.

 [thumbs up] [dead horse] [thumbs up]

Offline ChuckM

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2017, 06:31 PM »

Not immediately. First, Kapex team will make some motor improvements to SawStop.

 [mad] --->  [big grin] ;D

I am going to bolt my SawStop down on the shop floor, and chain the motor to the saw, its motor being the Pre-TTS (or Pre-Festool) version. If people couldn't steal my saw (400 lbs), they could steal my motor!
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 06:34 PM by ChuckM »

Offline ali

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2017, 06:41 PM »
Hopefully might mean Sawstop products become more available outside of USA  [cool]

Offline RKA

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2017, 07:11 PM »
Hopefully might mean Sawstop products become more available outside of USA  [cool]

I think that's what it's all about.  TTS' distribution network can efficiently get this saw to other large markets and support it.  SS has already proven there is room in the market for this saw.  US patent apps may be expiring, not sure how much longer that clock has to run in other large markets.  Since the acquisition is scheduled to complete in July, we might know where this ship is sailing in a matter of months.
-Raj

Offline RDMuller

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2017, 07:29 PM »
OUS distribution will open vast new markets with TTS knowing how to work so many countries. 

I am not sure what will get accomplished in the US.  We've got to get safety on these contractors machines.  I can't believe how all of the CHEAP contractors who are out there doing home improvement work are having teenagers who have absolutely no idea on safety out there ripping construction material with no splitters, no anti kickback prongs etc.   Fingers close to the blade.  I don't think this move will get the technology on cheaper blades.   I personally have no problem with lawyers suing the heck out of these contractors.  Unfortunately most of them don't have any pockets at all.  Most of them are not the sharpest pencils in the box.

Dewalt  Stanley would be a good one to sue.  They seem to have pockets to buy everything.

I just witnessed something awful last Thursday.   Totally turned off by Dewalt and their dangerous stuff

Offline estley

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2017, 08:43 PM »
I imagine they'll make green replacements for all the red components of the saws and sell them in a systainer for $900, and call it the "saw rebranding kit.... let me know where to sign up


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Offline Rip Van Winkle

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2017, 09:13 PM »
One of the main reasons some woodworkers won't purchase a SawStop saw is because of the various "selling tactics" Steve Gass the inventor used to try to sell his technology to the woodworking industry. If Gass is out if the picture going forward this might make the saw more palatable to those who would absolutely not purchase a Sawstop saw because of Gass.

Frim past discussions it's been mentioned that the SawStop mechanism may not meet European safety standards, but that the Bosch Reaxx, because it lacks the aluminum break, does. Is Sawstop going to work out an agreement with Bosch to cross license their respective patents, so Festool can sell Sawstop saws in Europe, and Bosch can resume selling the Reaxx in the USA?



I notice the  Festool brand is listed on the PowerToolInstitute website,

http://www.powertoolinstitute.com/pti-pages/mb-member-brand-profiles.asp

But the listing doesn't include the * indicating Festool is a member of the institute. Neither TTS or any of the other TTS companies are listed either. Did Festool/TTS initiate the purchase, or was SawStop up for sale, and TTS was the only company who would make an offer, since Gass and Sawstop sued all the other member of the Power Tool Institute?


Offline KescoNY

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2017, 09:19 PM »
This may explain a lengthy survey festool was conducting at their roadshow few months back. Did anyone else do the survey ?
I was wondering why they seemed to focus mainly on table saw features.

I figured they were going to offer the cms insert in NA.  Maybe a sawstop cms insert  [unsure]
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Offline bkharman

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2017, 09:33 PM »
This may explain a lengthy survey festool was conducting at their roadshow few months back. Did anyone else do the survey ?
I was wondering why they seemed to focus mainly on table saw features.

I figured they were going to offer the cms insert in NA.  Maybe a sawstop cms insert  [unsure]

I saw the survey but didn't think it was heading this way. Time will tell but I may have to change my tune on a CMSS insert. If they offered a full contractors saw, not sure I would invest. If TTS had a small license fee to sell the IP, I would be a happy person to see the tech grow

Cheers. Bryan.


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Offline antss

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2017, 09:58 PM »
I hope they don't paint the sawstop saws green and double the price.
Not immediately. First, Kapex team will make some motor improvements to SawStop.

 [big grin] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

now,  that's funny.

I think it's pretty much a given that TTS will stay out of the way at SS.  We haven't seen navy, grey and green livery on the compressors since TTS took over Schneider Druckluft GmbH.  We also won't see tablesaw production moved to Germany either.

We are likely to see the 5-9% annual price increase though.  [wink]

Offline Cincinnati

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2017, 10:58 PM »
Maybe they will design a better sliding table accessory.


Offline Peter Halle

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2017, 06:56 AM »
I think that the combination of companies will be very interesting to watch evolve.

Regarding the comments on a survey about table saws ; in 2013 or 2014 FESTOOL had a focus group meeting at JLC Live where the attendees were asked all sort of questions regarding table saws and it was evident that they were doing research towards the possible development of a portable contractor type table saw for the North American market.  I wasn't part of the focus group so I can't offer any more specifics.

If you take the normal FESTOOL product development process timeline then add in the acquisition of the company that has hundreds of patents ( the real worth of the company) regarding personal safety devices on saws and other tools then I could see the patent headaches cured and a real possibility of a table saw coming to fruition.

Peter
Scraps to Smiles.  To be continued.....  Stay Tuned.

Offline JimH2

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2017, 09:05 AM »
OUS distribution will open vast new markets with TTS knowing how to work so many countries. 

I am not sure what will get accomplished in the US.  We've got to get safety on these contractors machines.  I can't believe how all of the CHEAP contractors who are out there doing home improvement work are having teenagers who have absolutely no idea on safety out there ripping construction material with no splitters, no anti kickback prongs etc.   Fingers close to the blade.  I don't think this move will get the technology on cheaper blades.   I personally have no problem with lawyers suing the heck out of these contractors.  Unfortunately most of them don't have any pockets at all.  Most of them are not the sharpest pencils in the box.

Dewalt  Stanley would be a good one to sue.  They seem to have pockets to buy everything.

I just witnessed something awful last Thursday.   Totally turned off by Dewalt and their dangerous stuff

Don't throw a grenade like this and not follow up with whatever it is you saw. Considering you are listed as a Festool dealer slandering a competing manufacturer is petty and completely unnecessary. It's also fairly typical for retail.

...and suing a company because they have deep pockets or because of how their customers use the saws it is what is wrong with the American legal system. The DeWalt and other manufacturers instruction manuals go into detail on proper usage of the saw and safety devices. Choosing not read or follow them is up to the end user, much like operating a vehicle recklessly or at high rates of speed.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 440
Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2017, 09:07 AM »
I hope they don't paint the sawstop saws green and double the price.
Not immediately. First, Kapex team will make some motor improvements to SawStop.

It took me a second to catch the sarcasm in your post. I definitely do not want Festool tweaking the motor in my SawStop. Another way to look at this is that maybe Festool bought SawStop for their motor designs.

Offline antss

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2017, 10:43 AM »
It's possible since SS has a 110v jobsite saw and we don't hear about it crapping out when used to cut think material.

But that's an expensive fix for a problem that is claimed to not be a problem.  ::)

Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2017, 12:10 PM »
Really?  Industrial motors, single or 3 phase (which I am sure they just use whatever manufacturer of motors gives them the best deal) are not even close to the induction motors in power tools. 

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2017, 12:28 PM »
Lets not make this into a Kapex motor thread. We have plenty of those.

Seth

Offline glass1

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2017, 12:59 PM »
Let's keep the issue on the safety. Back to the kapex and safety. In my opinion it's the most dangerous scms on the market so adopting flesh sensing tech makes sense. In my opinion why is it so dangerous. 2 reasons, the blade guard is inside the head housing making it close to the blade. If it deflects it catches the blade easily and boom. Secondly one cannot hold the blade guard with ones thumb when doing long compound cuts and/or cuts with a very small off cut. The blade guard hangs up on long cuts and when there is a small off cut the guard will often knock it into the blade and boom it's flying. Hold down clamps are for special cuts or part time hobbyists. In a production environment forget it.

Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2017, 01:06 PM »
In 6 years I have never had an issue with the blade guard on my kapex. I am not into pinning/thumbing guards back. So glad that I don't have to use those old makitas anymore that it was the only way you could cut something.

I have cut my index finger twice with a miter saw, nothing can protect me from being stupid and reaching behind the blade.

Offline glass1

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2017, 01:48 PM »
In the 40 years I have owned a pinto the gas tank never blew up must be nothing wrong. All kidding aside every carpenter/woodworker I know outside this forum who owns a kapex even the ones who like it all agree the ergonomics are not good. The trigger safety and blade guard suck. The are clunky at best.

Offline glass1

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2017, 01:53 PM »
One more thing if holding the blade guard back with ones thumb (not pinning it back) is so bad why does the hk and hkc saws have a thumb depress on the guard so you can ...... you guessed it hold the guard up so....... you guessed it ..... it does not hang up and cause a safety issue.

Offline TylerC

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2017, 01:59 PM »
This is definitely exciting and interesting news. There are a lot of questions right now, but I definitely think that this is a very positive move.

I wouldn't anticipate any significant changes any time soon. SawStop has a strong brand in the US market. We don't want to interrupt the system that has made them successful.

Some of you asked about bringing SawStop to Europe or Asia. Here's an answer that I received from HQ:

"Following the take-over, we will look into plans for expansion with SawStop and will put such plans into practice if and to the extent that they are promising to be successful. We will be taking these decisions at a subsequent point in time."
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 02:25 PM by TylerC »

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2017, 02:11 PM »
Where is the Sawstop kit made - US, Taiwan, elsewhere ?

Does Sawstop have any European manufacturing connection ?

Will the (many) Sawstop patent rights go lock stock and barrel to TTS ?

Are any of those patents applicable to tools other than table saws ?

How do Bosch figure in this ?

Peter

Offline TylerC

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2017, 02:46 PM »
Where is the Sawstop kit made - US, Taiwan, elsewhere ?

Does Sawstop have any European manufacturing connection ?

Will the (many) Sawstop patent rights go lock stock and barrel to TTS ?

Are any of those patents applicable to tools other than table saws ?

How do Bosch figure in this ?

Peter

TTS will also take over SawStop's portfolio of patents. Beyond that, I really can't comment on anything else yet.

Offline ben_r_

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2017, 04:41 PM »
Where is the Sawstop kit made - US, Taiwan, elsewhere ?

Does Sawstop have any European manufacturing connection ?

Will the (many) Sawstop patent rights go lock stock and barrel to TTS ?

Are any of those patents applicable to tools other than table saws ?

How do Bosch figure in this ?

Peter
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Offline Wooden Skye

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2017, 08:10 PM »
I don't think the safety feature of the SawStop would be effective on the Kapex or other miter saw.  First I believe the Kapex is to light to handle the jarring nature of the brake stopping the blade.  Second sort of builds off the first the saw would need to be bolted to a solid surface, which eliminates the portability aspect.
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino DF 500, 2 domino systainers, ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, (2) OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

Offline glass1

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2017, 08:36 PM »
Maybe festool can redesign that crap sawstop contractor saw

Offline Andre Prudhomme

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2017, 11:26 PM »
I think this acquisition makes sense from a business perspective. A few thoughts:

1) Saw Stop products are built around a few unique features that help them command a premium price from the customers who highly value those features, much like Festool.

2) Festool doesn't create lawsuit risk by having a "safety" table saw on the market. For some other companies, acquiring Saw Stop would lead to more (or more effective) lawsuits against them. The acquisition would be an implicit admission that their existing tools were dangerous.

3) The Saw Stop sale is evangelistic, requiring the company to sell customers on both the importance of the problem and their solution to it. Festool has experience with this kind of marketing and will be able to further amplify the SawStop message. Consider the similarities to dust collection.

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Offline James Biddle

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2017, 04:01 PM »
Question for those with a SawStop; is the saw equipped with electrical breaking during normal shutdown that would allow it to stop within EU regulations?

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2017, 04:19 PM »
Someone said to me the other day that the number of table saw accidents in North America runs at nearly 100 times that in Europe. It is mostly due (so I am told) to the lack of a riving knife and blade guard on NA machines.

Maybe that is why Sawstop has not penetrated the European market.

Peter

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2017, 04:34 PM »
Someone said to me the other day that the number of table saw accidents in North America runs at nearly 100 times that in Europe. It is mostly due (so I am told) to the lack of a riving knife and blade guard on NA machines.

Maybe that is why Sawstop has not penetrated the European market.

Peter

So your detailed analysis come from "someone said to me"

Come on Peter 3 minutes of googling proves that statement wrong. With a reputation like yours  you should site studies not hearsay.

When you put up videos and post information on various woodworking topics and come across as an expert to some people you need be more careful with the things you say. It is a responsibility I won't take and the main reason I dont post videos on tool use or how I make my items.

I post as some random person that only claims to know what I know from my personal use. Once a person or company is listed as a retailer on this forum and post professional videos and writes articles I think the standard needs  be higher.

Some newbs take your word as gospel so be careful.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 04:44 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline amt

  • Posts: 345
Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2017, 05:40 PM »
Question for those with a SawStop; is the saw equipped with electrical breaking during normal shutdown that would allow it to stop within EU regulations?

No

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1032
Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2017, 09:35 PM »
Maybe SS hasn't penetrated the EU market because there is much of one to be had.

Cabinet saws like SS, PM66, Unisaw ect... are just not popular.  The hobbyist doesn't have the space and the mom and pop shops just get a slider.  Then there's the hurdle of an American brand that's actually made in Asia.

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
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    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2017, 03:34 AM »
Someone said to me the other day that the number of table saw accidents in North America runs at nearly 100 times that in Europe. It is mostly due (so I am told) to the lack of a riving knife and blade guard on NA machines.

Maybe that is why Sawstop has not penetrated the European market.

Peter

So your detailed analysis come from "someone said to me"

Come on Peter 3 minutes of googling proves that statement wrong. With a reputation like yours  you should site studies not hearsay.

When you put up videos and post information on various woodworking topics and come across as an expert to some people you need be more careful with the things you say. It is a responsibility I won't take and the main reason I dont post videos on tool use or how I make my items.

I post as some random person that only claims to know what I know from my personal use. Once a person or company is listed as a retailer on this forum and post professional videos and writes articles I think the standard needs  be higher.

Some newbs take your word as gospel so be careful.

So, you want me censored in that I cannot mention something that someone else said to me ?

The Woodworkers Guild of America analysed the 2011 accident statistics and estimate that 39,750 accidents involved the table saw:

https://www.wwgoa.com/article/shop-accident-statistics-woodworking-safety/

Getting any statistics from the UK is not easy, however the UK Health and Safety Executive have analysed figures over the 2013/14 and 2014/15 period. Covering all manufacturing industries (I could not single out woodworking from what was presented) 7,920 injuries per year involved contact with machinery:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/Statistics/industry/manufacturing/index.htm

I have no way of finding out how many of those UK injuries were from woodworking. Woodworking only accounts for £3.8 billion of the £1,940 billion UK economy. Manufacturing represents about 10% of the economy and so the injuries on a (risky) pro rata basis is under 200 in that period.

Peter


Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 421
Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2017, 04:24 AM »
"It is mostly due (so I am told) to the lack of a riving knife and blade guard on NA machines."

I am n to taking objection to your post at all Peter but I think whoever told you this (above)
misstated the problem. Blade guards have been on NA table saws for decades, riving knives
have been there for about 8 years as a requirement, some better quality saws had them before
they were required.

But where the problem lies as it does with any safety device any on the globe is that if you don't
use it as intended or defeat its function then it is worthless and that is where the majority of the
problem is, people don't use the guard when they could or should. I firmly believe that all the
YouTubers and TV shows which continue to show table saws being used without guards for the
purpose of being able to photograph the cut is wrong and leads people to assume that they can
get away with it too.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 106
Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2017, 08:02 AM »
In order to make any meaningful statement about the relative proportion of TS injuries in the USA vs GB (or anywhere else) it is necessary to compare the relative RATES of TS injury incidents.  At the simplest one would calculate the number of injuries per million saws, or per million saw users.  Ideally the number of injuries per million hours of TS operation would be most revealing.

Considering that GB has a bit more than 1/5th the population of the USA and likely a much lower proportion of TSs in use the raw injury numbers are nearly meaningless.

Offline TylerC

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Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2017, 10:02 AM »
I've removed a few comments about politics, which we don't allow on this forum.

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 1936
Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2017, 10:16 AM »
"It is mostly due (so I am told) to the lack of a riving knife and blade guard on NA machines."

I am n to taking objection to your post at all Peter but I think whoever told you this (above)
misstated the problem. Blade guards have been on NA table saws for decades, riving knives
have been there for about 8 years as a requirement, some better quality saws had them before
they were required.

But where the problem lies as it does with any safety device any on the globe is that if you don't
use it as intended or defeat its function then it is worthless and that is where the majority of the
problem is, people don't use the guard when they could or should. I firmly believe that all the
YouTubers and TV shows which continue to show table saws being used without guards for the
purpose of being able to photograph the cut is wrong and leads people to assume that they can
get away with it too.
  I've always felt that too. So many DIY and other HGTV shows that have someone flailing away on a Table saw, usually a Contractor or Portable model with no Blade Guard in sight... [blink]
 Once in a while you'll see the usage of a Push Stick, but even that's rare.... [scared]
 
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline ewils91

  • Posts: 166
Re: TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2017, 05:42 PM »
I'm thinking that they will make the purchase, acquire the patents and then wait for it....NAINA will be announced. Jus Sayin... [crying]