Author Topic: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support  (Read 5449 times)

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Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 790
Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« on: March 13, 2018, 12:54 AM »
Well, this one should generate some discussion. 

Now my eyes might be deceiving me, but this seems like it would double as a 25"x48" MFS/VRJ (same hardware).  I guess it's an option for those who missed out on adding the 32" rails to their VRJ order and don't want to rout Supertrack themselves.  Though the 48" rails are not routed for hardware, and of course all of the tracks are not laser engraved either.

As for what it's advertised for, I'm not seeing the added value there.  It's an awfully expensive shelf support - maybe it adds additional rigidity over some notched 2x4s and plywood.

https://www.woodpeck.com/mftss.html
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 01:01 AM by live4ever »
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 234
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2018, 02:55 AM »
Markets mature.  Innovation cycles wind down.   Then aside from the collector and special use market it turns into price wars and value must be established by premium brands on criteria other than whether the product does its thing effectively.



Offline Corwin

  • Posts: 2640
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2018, 03:32 AM »
It seems that April Fools' Day comes earlier and earlier each year.   [tongue] [huh] [blink]
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 806
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2018, 06:32 AM »
Markets mature.  Innovation cycles wind down.   Then aside from the collector and special use market it turns into price wars and value must be established by premium brands on criteria other than whether the product does its thing effectively.

(Attachment Link)

Dang - my picture just keeps popping up in unexpected places.  Please don't take this as an official endorsement of Festool, although I do like the brand.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2018, 08:25 AM »
I used 8' of scrap 1 x 2 hardwood and 12 screws for mine.  I did check to see if I totally lost track of time and it was April already.

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3674
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2018, 08:59 AM »
Another solution in search of a problem...   [huh]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline sprior

  • Posts: 412
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2018, 09:55 AM »
I've already got my LFT sysport cabinet so not useful to me, but since they're making it out of supertrack it seems they could have included the end connectors required to make the track also work as a square router template and then I'd be tempted.

Offline Dogberryjr

  • Posts: 116
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2018, 10:04 AM »
Oftentimes when the latest OTT arrives, I agonize right up to the last day for ordering.

Other times, it's a very, very simple decision.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 632
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2018, 10:15 AM »
An overpriced solution looking for a problem, not mention a quick way to sheer some skin off of your shin on those corners.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3603
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2018, 10:20 AM »
Since it isn’t April Fools Day yet they must have way too much of that T-track aluminum. IMO they should make a bunch of the MFS template thing and put it in the catalog, at a discount.

Offline bnaboatbuilder

  • Posts: 130
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2018, 10:29 AM »
Does no one notice that the shelf support in the top 2 photos on the Woodpecker page don't match? The top one shows the supertrack has been notched to fit down on the MFT rods, then the next photo shows brackets to keep it in place.
- John

Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 437
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2018, 10:29 AM »
This is a nice reminder of what a person could do with a few feet of lumber to add additional shelf space under the MFT. It does seem to be a case where a home built solution would be just as effective at a very small fraction of the cost.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5156
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2018, 11:04 AM »
This is one I actually agree with...this one deserves to be a One Time Tool and then just move on.

Not exactly their best foot forward on this one. This ranks right next to that other great OTT...the Lumber Rule.







Here's a OTT that was quietly introduced a week ago. The Clamp Support System 24.



https://www.woodpeck.com/css24.html

Offline mwildt

  • Posts: 421
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2018, 11:16 AM »
It's not a bad idea in general. A storage shelf could come handy for some users. I do find their product a bit of overkill for what it is.

While the aluminum profiles are nice they are too wide to give max height for storage. No need for that beefy profile, deflection and all. The brackets that provide the shelf connection to the leg cross member could use some padding as to not dig into the paint (a guess). I think a non stationary use of such shelf quickly would loose appeal. Just too heavy and a repeated on/off would destroy the paint on the legs.

Some thoughts I would have considered to incorporate as to make the shelf idea more outstanding.

Stability improvement
The mft/3 does rock a bit if doing hand work. A simple brace can stabilize the table quit a bit. Just have to clamp a cross brace from top rail to leg in the back (like top to left leg) and in the front (top to right leg). Stability improves quite a bit. Having cross brace in back OR front does not help enough. Needs opposite sides imho. I do not see the shelf add anything to such improvement. Would have been an excellent sales feature.

Storage
While a full shelf is nice it removes the ability to have the dust extractor underneath. Does not look like there is enough headroom to put even a midi on the shelf. Two options could have been provided. A full shelf and a half shelf. Full shelf is what was presented. The half shelf could use same profiles but half length. Left side would rest on the leg cross member as it does today. Right side could hang using another piece of profile attached to the top rails inner side. Voila a half shelf and the dust extractor could pop into the other side, on the floor.

A genius move would have been to combine these two without loosing access to the shelf.

Portability
Nice with a shelf when working in the field. Gives that extra place to put a clamp or tool. I see this as perhaps too beefy for mobility.

Double use as router guide
Great idea but I doubt anyone will go through the hassle to take things apart to do this, unless it's really a one off thing.

Anyways just some quick thoughts. Flame away 😀






Offline Master Carpenter

  • Posts: 91
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2018, 11:24 AM »
That's a lot of money for a shelf.

I've often wondered why Festool doesn't offer a sysport that connects under the MFT. And a wheel kit. I guess we all just build our own.
Ts 55, Ts 75, of 1010, lr 32, mft, mfs 700, RO 150 x2 + paper asort, RO 90 + paper asort, pro 5, df 500 + dom asort, hl 850 e, ti 15, t18, cxs, centrotec set, ct48, ct sys, vac sys, 32;55x2;118 tracks, a stack of sys and an og festool first aid kit. Kapex, planex, carvex, conturo.

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 806
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2018, 12:06 PM »
Since it isn’t April Fools Day yet they must have way too much of that T-track aluminum. IMO they should make a bunch of the MFS template thing and put it in the catalog, at a discount.

I second the thought.

Festool sells two supporting rods for $80 (before this year's price increases).  That's about $40 a piece, plus some hardware.  Woodpeckers has 5 pieces for $200, plus some hardware, -and- it's usable as super track.  They're just giving us the pricing we're used to from Festool.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 12:47 PM by HarveyWildes »

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2037
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2018, 01:46 PM »
I used 8020 quick frame square tubing to make cross braces and flanged tubing for shelf supports. 
277002-0   I later added the same shelf supports for the other sides.  I used the sames extrusions to make a sys port.
277004-1   The syss sit on U shaped 18 ga steel pans that I had made and I cut holes for the feet to sit, and over extension slides to make access easier.  I can open the lids fully while still on the shelf.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 01:51 PM by rst »

Offline mwildt

  • Posts: 421
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2018, 09:41 PM »
@rst looks great. Care to share the cross brace details ?

I've not tried the middle as you tried. How does it hold up?

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2037
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2018, 05:46 PM »
I made the upper and lower ends from some thick black ABS.  They are milled to fit into the 1" tubes.  The lower ones were made in one long piece, then I drilled a hole the diameter of the cross brace and split with my bandsaw to fit over the cross brace.  The upper ones were a little trickier.  I had to tinker with getting the proper angle, and milled a finger to engage the slot in the MFT profile.  The braces are not attached but rather, tension fit.  Between the cross brace and shelve supports my MFT is rock solid.




Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 790
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2018, 06:33 PM »
I made the upper and lower ends from some thick black ABS.  They are milled to fit into the 1" tubes.  The lower ones were made in one long piece, then I drilled a hole the diameter of the cross brace and split with my bandsaw to fit over the cross brace.  The upper ones were a little trickier.  I had to tinker with getting the proper angle, and milled a finger to engage the slot in the MFT profile.  The braces are not attached but rather, tension fit.  Between the cross brace and shelve supports my MFT is rock solid.

Rock solid enough for light to moderate hand planing?
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2037
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2018, 07:28 AM »
yup, I bought Sjoberg's new benchtop vise to sit on MFT.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1067
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2018, 09:29 AM »
You can order all parts (profiles cut to the dimensions you want plus the ready-to-use fasteners you need) for that (or likely a superior version) from Item for roughly 1/2 the asking price.

Without the one-time order-now-before-it's-too-late nonsense.

I call ... on the whole one-time-tool thing. In case something is a great tool then there's no valid reason to stop producing it / make only a limited quantity, unless you want to fleece people through artificial scarcity.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3603
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2018, 09:30 AM »
Since it isn’t April Fools Day yet they must have way too much of that T-track aluminum. IMO they should make a bunch of the MFS template thing and put it in the catalog, at a discount.

I second the thought.

Festool sells two supporting rods for $80 (before this year's price increases).  That's about $40 a piece, plus some hardware.  Woodpeckers has 5 pieces for $200, plus some hardware, -and- it's usable as super track.  They're just giving us the pricing we're used to from Festool.

Seems like they’re testing the gullibility of the Festool market.

Offline koenbro

  • Posts: 61
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2018, 11:38 AM »
This is just a more grotesque example of the fact that one-time tools are just ....

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Offline tomp

  • Posts: 48
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2018, 02:00 PM »
Look at it this way - from the Woodpecker catalog, the cost of the equivalent lengths of Super Track is $190 (2 pcs at $50 each + 3 pcs at $30 each (assuming that they cut the 23" pcs out of a 60" blank) - and the cost doesn't seem quite so bad.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1067
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2018, 03:32 AM »
Look at it this way - from the Woodpecker catalog, the cost of the equivalent lengths of Super Track is $190 (2 pcs at $50 each + 3 pcs at $30 each (assuming that they cut the 23" pcs out of a 60" blank) - and the cost doesn't seem quite so bad.
I look at the Item price list and the cost of the woodpecker one seems quite bad.

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3674
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2018, 09:11 AM »
Look at it this way - from the Woodpecker catalog, the cost of the equivalent lengths of Super Track is $190 (2 pcs at $50 each + 3 pcs at $30 each (assuming that they cut the 23" pcs out of a 60" blank) - and the cost doesn't seem quite so bad.

So how much would it cost to buy 2 - 2x4s and 1/2 sheet of 3/4" plywood?  It's a danged shelf, for cryin' out loud!  [2cents] [censored]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5156
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2018, 11:42 AM »
So how much would it cost to buy 2 - 2x4s and 1/2 sheet of 3/4" plywood?  It's a danged shelf, for cryin' out loud!  [2cents] [censored]

It looks like somewhere in the $199.99 to $219.99 range... [poke]

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 606
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2018, 01:38 PM »
This is a "How to transform a ~850$ portable workbench into a semi-permanent one for only 199$" :P
Mario


Offline Corwin

  • Posts: 2640
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2018, 04:00 PM »
Maybe WP is running out of ideas....?

You probably meant to say, "running out of GOOD ideas."

It seems that Woodpeckers has lost their way. I used to have a good deal of respect for the company and their line of products. But, offerings like this, along with the endless "one time tool" come ons has changed much of that.  [sad]
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Online jpmeunier

  • Posts: 69
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2018, 04:20 PM »
I see their OTT's a little differently. They should make the ones that are hits permanent. And the one that are more, let's call them superfluous, are cool things for enthusiast. They don't make you buy them. Not that this one is an example of it, but as a hobbyist I find joy in using a tool that is just designed very well for a specific job.

My favorite knife is a tomato knife, you don't need it too often, but its a joy to use when you do.

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 790
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2018, 04:51 PM »
Supertrack is a nifty extrusion.  It has a lot of uses and fits in a little better with the average hobbyist shop compared to 80/20, which is kind of a system of its own.

They did the VRJ off Supertrack which I think was a good use of the profile (assuming it works well - haven't gotten mine).  But they probably had a ton of ST inventory and tried to introduce a framing product with it, especially since they developed an end-to-side connection method for it.  And hey, let's be honest, there's no shortage of folks using 80/20 for cabinets/racks and other framing where lumber would suffice.  I don't see the harm of WP trying to get in on that action, but the specific product they came up with to do so just seems absurd. 
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline ChrisK1970

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  • Wicked Awesome
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2018, 06:05 PM »
I made the upper and lower ends from some thick black ABS.  They are milled to fit into the 1" tubes.  The lower ones were made in one long piece, then I drilled a hole the diameter of the cross brace and split with my bandsaw to fit over the cross brace.  The upper ones were a little trickier.  I had to tinker with getting the proper angle, and milled a finger to engage the slot in the MFT profile.  The braces are not attached but rather, tension fit.  Between the cross brace and shelve supports my MFT is rock solid.
First off....awesome. Genius. Secondly, how did you attach the flanged pieces to the square tubes to sit over the cross pieces? Thanks!
Dark Helmet.....Remember! Evil will always triumph over good. Because good is dumb!

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2037
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2018, 06:41 PM »
I made the lengths the outside dimensions of the cross braces and just used a zip tie to hold in place.  If I were to do it again I would make the shelf supports long enough to use the tri-corner connectors and let the third leg of the connector fit down over the outside of the braces.  Or you could use horizontal double flange on the ends so the outside flange sat on the cross brace.  Initially I had the systs just sitting on the interior flanges but later cut .187 ABS to make an actual shelf so I could store more than just systs.  I have two MFTs and both are outfitted like this.  I don't really take mine out of the shop but it would be easy.  The shelf supports just rest on the braces and by removing the center bolt where the cross braces intersect they can be cocked sideways to remove.

Online Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 396
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2018, 09:03 PM »
Maybe WP is running out of ideas....?

You probably meant to say, "running out of GOOD ideas."

It seems that Woodpeckers has lost their way. I used to have a good deal of respect for the company and their line of products. But, offerings like this, along with the endless "one time tool" come ons has changed much of that.  [sad]

Yes, ^this x 100.  I was just surprised that it wasn't offered in red anodize, for a premium charge. [crying]

Offline ChrisK1970

  • Posts: 578
  • Wicked Awesome
Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2018, 05:29 AM »
I made the lengths the outside dimensions of the cross braces and just used a zip tie to hold in place.  If I were to do it again I would make the shelf supports long enough to use the tri-corner connectors and let the third leg of the connector fit down over the outside of the braces.  Or you could use horizontal double flange on the ends so the outside flange sat on the cross brace.  Initially I had the systs just sitting on the interior flanges but later cut .187 ABS to make an actual shelf so I could store more than just systs.  I have two MFTs and both are outfitted like this.  I don't really take mine out of the shop but it would be easy.  The shelf supports just rest on the braces and by removing the center bolt where the cross braces intersect they can be cocked sideways to remove.
Thank you sir! Wonderful idea and my MFT stays in place in the shop. Really fantastic solution and my systainers sit on the floor underneath and I hate it.
Dark Helmet.....Remember! Evil will always triumph over good. Because good is dumb!

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Woodpeckers latest OTT: MFT shelf support
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2018, 02:05 PM »
I just added a plywood shelf with a couple of cleats to stop it from sliding off.

I did have the idea of building a cabinet/ sys port that sits on the cross bars of the MFT.

So I came up with this idea and though Im still in the process of building them and setting up the work stations, adding castors and slides etc. I found I can set 4 cabinets per a MFT, 2 per a side. Here a a couple of photos to give you a idea.

I have been able to clear off my spur shelves of where I store my Systainers, 3 shelves 8' long doubled Systainers . Opens up up almost the entire rear wall in my shop /garage