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Online ear3

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NBA Finals thread
« on: June 02, 2016, 11:54 PM »
Cleveland loses game 1.  Embarrassing to be beaten by Golden State's bench.  Looking at Cleveland's offense tonight, you wonder how they made it through to the finals.  The entire Cleveland team just stands around waiting for the ball handler to set up an isolation play.  Compare that with the Golden State offensive set, where there is constant motion and cutting.  Cleveland wasn't bad defensively, but their strategy seemed to be to pull Golden State down into the mud, rather than try to elevate over them for the win.  There's only so long you can do that with a team like Golden State.  Hopefully things will go better in game 2.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 11:57 PM by Edward A Reno III »
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Offline Staniam

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2016, 12:35 PM »
I cannot stand Golden State. In fact, I despise them. But they are the perfect team for the new age NBA. On top of that, their ball movement is timesless, the ball moves faster than any defender. When you have ball movement and screens, back screens and cutting, you create constant mismatches and open shots. Add on the fact that each and every player has equally bought into their systemain and you get wins like last night.

As far as Cleveland, there isn't another team in the East that is close to their talent level. That's why they're in the finals. Actually, that's why LeBron has made it to 6 straight finals. The Eastern Conference is simply weak, embarrassingly weak and it's been that way since 2010 when the Celtics made the Finals last.

The Cavs play well when they are running, making the extra pass and hitting threes. Gotta credit the Warriors defense.

I hate the Warriors. Especially Curry and Green.
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Offline TylerC

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2016, 03:16 PM »
I hate the Warriors. Especially Curry and Green.

I'll admit that I'm a casual NBA follower at best.  (As a fan of the perpetually mediocre Indiana Pacers, it's hard to get excited.) That said, I sincerely don't understand Curry haters. He's undeniably amazing and fun to watch. I'm curious about what you don't like about him.

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2016, 03:20 PM »
@Staniam is a Lakers fan.  'nuff said.

I hate the Warriors. Especially Curry and Green.

I'll admit that I'm a casual NBA follower at best.  (As a fan of the perpetually mediocre Indiana Pacers, it's hard to get excited.) That said, I sincerely don't understand Curry haters. He's undeniably amazing and fun to watch. I'm curious about what you don't like about him.
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Offline TylerC

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2016, 03:24 PM »
@Staniam is a Lakers fan.  'nuff said.

Good. Now I know that logic and reason won't apply to this conversation.  [cool]

Offline Motown

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2016, 03:38 PM »
Hello from the Bay Area.....we love our Warriors! Previous to last year, the last time they won was over 40 years ago. The fans have been loyal all these years and deserve a taste of winning. I actually took the comments from Staniam as a compliment......he clearly understands how good this team is. :-)

Offline TheMarvelousOne

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2016, 03:51 PM »
As an Oklahoman, I can legitimately say I hate the Warriors. Draymond Green, ugh...trash. Come on, Cavs!

Offline Staniam

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2016, 03:54 PM »
@Staniam is a Lakers fan.  'nuff said.

Good. Now I know that logic and reason won't apply to this conversation.  [cool]

Despite the general outlook on Lakers fans, I'm a fan of the game first and foremost. Which is why I credited the Warriors a great deal. They play together as a team before anything else. That's why they win. That's why San Antonio has 15 straight 50 win seasons. They play as a team, they've bought into the system and beliefs of their coach. They play as a unit and realize that the team is greater than the sum of its parts so to say.

Why I can't stand the Warriors? Well first off yes, I am a Lakers fan and therefore I can't stand any team in the Pacific division. Over the years my disdain for Pacific Coast teams has fluctuated depending on which team is at the top or biggest threat to the Lakers. In the early 2000's it was the Kings. After that the Suns then most recently the Clippers and now Warriors. Sure it doesn't help the Lakers are at the bottom but if you want more reasons, keep reading.

Curry, he is immensely talented, yes. No one can deny that. He does things with the basketball not many others can do (though there are plenty who can). I'm old school, I like a player who has a complete game, on both sides of the ball. I like a player who doesn't flop and a player who can influence the game even when his offensive game isn't on part on any given night. Curry is not that player. You can call me a hater, a lot of my friends do. Especially when it comes to sports.

Curry isn't very valuable when his shot isn't falling or when he's going up against a ln athletic PG. He doesn't play the type of defense to be considered "unanimous" in the map voting. Ok he lead the league in steals but there's a reason he hasn't been named to the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd all defensive teams. Neff said. Curry also shoots like a kid from Jr high. It isn't a jump shot, it's a push shot. Might seem silly but I hate seeing that shot. He also pushes off and throws his arms and feet out more than nearly any player in the league. But he's the golden boy of the NBA so whatever.

And Green, he's dirty as all heck and rarely backs up all the stuff he talks. Also, he tries to be big and bad but when someone pushes him a little his game is completely thrown off. I don't need any other reasons than that. Especially when he blatantly and purposely kicks opposing players and flops like no other. He's a baby.
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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2016, 04:01 PM »
Funny enough, I arrive at the same conclusion as @Staniam but for diametrically opposed reasons.  As a Knicks fan, I was raised on Lakers hatred.  So my heart can't distinguish between Northern and Southern California when it comes to basketball teams.  So go Eastern Conference and go Cavs!

Plus J.R. Smith was a Knick.  I won't defend him personally -- he might be the only player who's more of a petulant child than Kobe was.  But he's the kind of guy who you love if he's on your team, but despise if you're facing him.
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Offline Motown

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2016, 05:42 PM »
Staniam, I don't blame you for being a homer as the Lakers have an amazing tradition but I respectfully disagree with some of the comments about Curry and Green. Curry had a bad night last night, he was missing open shots, but we still won and he was able to set others up because he draws so much attention. On defense, he is certainly no Tony Allen but its not because he is not in the right spot or forgetting to cover guys.... its because bigger players can get physical with him.

If Curry is the MVP of the league than Draymond Green is the MVP of Warriors. I promise you if he was on your team you would love him and I completely understand why you would hate him if he isn't. He is a throw back player.....think Pistons, Charles Oakley, etc.

Offline erock

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2016, 11:37 PM »
HI ! 

Eric here, from Cleveland.  NOT A CAVS FAN !    But a basketball fan.   If you must know, my favorite team is..... DA BULLS !

I've thought Curry's game was great until he was named the first unanimous  MVP.    UNANIMOUS ?????    REALLY ???  First, EVER?

So because the guy can shoot from the beyond the 3 point line he's unanimous?     I don't remember the radio personalities name, but he said something along the lines of this.....

Curry, you take away his jump shot and what do you have?   You have a 6' 2"  180 pound guard.
No defense.  Has Steph ever shut down a dominate offensive player??

A unanimous MVP should be on both ends of the court.    I know I'm a Bulls fan, but MJ never won a unanimous MVP.   Kobe never won a unanimous MVP.    Magic never won a unanimous.........Shaq, Bird, Kareem, Russell.........need I go on?

That's the beef I have with Curry.  My eye's, he's not the total package and should not have received unanimous voting.

Does this mean the NBA is watered down like Tracy McGrady said????     

And just to be fair........LBJ is a HUGE cry baby and wants a call every single time he goes into the paint.    DUDE, no call, move on and STOP CRYING !

I just hope this years final is not a sweep and they give me something to watch worth staying up late to watch.

GO BASKETBALL !!!!     [tongue]

Eric

Offline promark747

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2016, 11:54 PM »
Agree 100% Eric.

Offline Staniam

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2016, 12:13 AM »
Green is not a throw back player. He isn't even on the level of the Pistons of old. For today's cry baby, weak, everybody is everybody's friend NBA he seems like a tough guy. But even 36 year old Ron Artest/Metta World Peace puts Draymond in his place.

Draymond is a dirty, flop happy wannabe tough guy who resorts to kicking other players in the groin and face. Even the commentators in game one were making fun of Draymond and his flopping. When Stan Van Gundy calls someone out for flopping it's bad.
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Offline live4ever

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2016, 04:17 AM »
Haters gonna hate.  Go Dubs!

In all seriousness, I find Curry and Thompson the unlikeliest of formidable duos, and even as a fan I never really thought small ball would have a legit shot.  But that's what makes them so beloved here in the Bay Area.  This is not, by any means, a hardcore sports city in the way some other large cities are.  But put together a ragtag team that plays with heart and suddenly you've got something everyone seems to get behind (see: Giants, Warriors).  Honestly I think a star like Curry is a better fit for the Bay Area than someone like Kobe or Lebron.  It will be interesting if Durant signs with the Dubs but I have a feeling he may only hurt what the Warriors have going.

Steve Kerr was quite a coaching find.  Kudos to Mike Tannenbaum for that one (whoa a little basketball-football crossover for y'all). 


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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2016, 10:22 AM »
Yeah.  Steve Kerr really has proved why he is the coach of the year.  That took some stones to keep Curry out for the first half of the 4th quarter while he rode the bench for the lead.

Haters gonna hate.  Go Dubs!

In all seriousness, I find Curry and Thompson the unlikeliest of formidable duos, and even as a fan I never really thought small ball would have a legit shot.  But that's what makes them so beloved here in the Bay Area.  This is not, by any means, a hardcore sports city in the way some other large cities are.  But put together a ragtag team that plays with heart and suddenly you've got something everyone seems to get behind (see: Giants, Warriors).  Honestly I think a star like Curry is a better fit for the Bay Area than someone like Kobe or Lebron.  It will be interesting if Durant signs with the Dubs but I have a feeling he may only hurt what the Warriors have going.

Steve Kerr was quite a coaching find.  Kudos to Mike Tannenbaum for that one (whoa a little basketball-football crossover for y'all).
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Offline jussi

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2016, 10:51 AM »
I'm a Lakers fan so I have no investment in these finals but I definitely think Steph should have been the unanimous choice for MVP.  I agree if this was the 80's, 90's maybe even early 00's that wouldn't be the case but this NBA highly rewards his type of game.  His presence makes his teammates better because he spreads the defense so much more.  A normal 3-point threat you would pick up a foot or 2 from the 3pt line.  With steph you pretty much have to pick him up as soon as he crosses half court.  And when the defense has to switch and a big is covering him, fogetaba it.   Is he the best 2-way player in the game.  No way.  His one on one defense is at best mediocre.  But he does play pretty decent team defense.  That said I always took the term MVP exactly as the acronym implies.  Most valuable.  As in most valuable to the team.   Not the guy who can beat everyone one on one.  In that respect I think Steph is definitely the MVP of the regular season.  Finals MVP on the other hand.  I'm not completely convinced.

All that said MJ, Kobe, LBJ should have all gotten the unanimous votes as well.  Just because those voters got it wrong doesn't mean it should have impacted this years vote.



I've thought Curry's game was great until he was named the first unanimous  MVP.    UNANIMOUS ?????    REALLY ???  First, EVER?


Offline Staniam

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2016, 11:46 AM »
The Warriors are not a "ragtag" team in even the slightest sense so idk why that was said. They have three all star players and a former all star coming off the bench as a 6th man in Iguadala. Bogus was one of the better centers barring injuries before he came to the Warriors. So ragtag is the wrong word.

As far as Durant to the Warriors, come on now. They'd have to get rid of most of their team outside of their big three just to have the money to sign him. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Durant will resign for two years with an optional second year. He'll have another contention year with Westbrook then be set up to make more money with the new cap.

People need to look at the salary cap rules before they go talking about possible free agent signings.
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Offline #Tee

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2016, 03:50 PM »
hate both teams, but ill rather gs win because their team is home made which i can respect. bron likes to take the easy route stacking stars on his side.
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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2016, 04:28 PM »
If only he had better taste.  Kevin Love?  Meh.

hate both teams, but ill rather gs win because their team is home made which i can respect. bron likes to take the easy route stacking stars on his side.
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Offline TheMarvelousOne

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2016, 11:19 PM »
Durant will stay in OKC for one more year. More of a free agent market after next year. 1yr deal for KD and then he'll be gone if they dont win a championship, along with Westbrook!

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2016, 07:10 AM »
Ugh.  Game 2 was ugly for Cleveland.  Like a bunch of boys trying to play a man's game. 

Where is Kyre Irving in these series?  Unlike Kevin Love he's a legitimate All-Star, but he hasn't shown up at all.

Those back to back travel calls on LeBron were hilarious.  That's his step pattern on almost every single drive to the basket, and so if they wanted to, they could call a travel on every possession. 

I expect that Cleveland will take at least one game at home, though I'm having a hard time imagining how that happens at this point. 
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Offline #Tee

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2016, 11:32 AM »
i would lol if gs wins and klay nor curry gets the finals mvp. looks like green will take it at this rate.
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Offline snodgrass23

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2016, 02:10 PM »
The story with Lebron is always the same, he has a crappy team around him, even if those guys were all-stars before he got there. Lebron is great in the regular season when he can over power teams without talent and size. Once he gets into the finals (face it no real challenge in play-offs in easter conference) he can't keep up. Lebron can't be the dominant force on a great team. When he won in Miami finally, it was because of the strong presence of people like Wade who had already won without him.

He's a great individual player, but doesn't make for a great team. He doesn't affect the game on offense when he's not dominating the ball, he just stands around. Curry is running his  off to affect the defense and get everyone better shots. Look back at Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Magic, etc. Even though some of them definitely would dominate the ball sometimes, they would still run the offense and keep things moving when they didn't have the ball. It's all of those other little things that allow the rest of the team to show up.

Offline #Tee

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2016, 06:14 AM »
ya well see, so far he basically hand picked this team from getting rid of wiggins for love and pushed for the thompson signing. it was a cake walk for them to get to the finals. his team is healthy hes playing well so theres no more excuses for that guy man. partnering up with franchise players to win while hes one of the most if not the most gifted athlete of all times. Any titles won or wins with the allstars he picked to play with are all tainted in my book. no respect no care.

I can respect GS since they are a home made team.
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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2016, 07:48 AM »
Well, that was a much better showing for Cleveland.  The win was basically built off of a much tighter defensive effort, being faster on the switches and not allowing GS to cut to the basket for easy layups.  I'm still skeptical whether Cleveland has the offensive ability to win.  The only difference with their offense last night was that they actually made their shots.  In terms of the offensive schemes, there was still a lot of iso ball.  The only dynamism was on the penetration/kick out plays and pick and rolls. 

I don't think it's an accident that they had their best game with Kevin Love sitting out.  Wondering if LeBron is gonna pay a secret visit to the doctors to tell them to keep Love in drydock for another game.

I expect Steve Kerr to do what he does, though, in game 4, and make some adjustments, maybe start Iguodala.  And you know Curry and Thompson are going to break out at some point.
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Offline #Tee

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2016, 02:00 PM »
imo the the major dif between these 2 teams is bench play. i cant trust cavs bench play on the road at this point. They need a huge game from their stars to keep them afloat. with gs if you lock down klay and curry their role players step up.
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Offline snodgrass23

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2016, 09:33 AM »
It's largely because of how they play. They rarely get into 1 on 1 isolation offense and are continuously moving, both them and the ball. When they get out of that and start launching 3's out of the offensive flow is when they get in trouble (though with Steph and Klay they can get away with it still sometimes). This offensive style allows everyone to get in the flow and makes it much easier for the open guy to make a play when he gets the chance.

Cleveland, and a lot of teams, play way too much isolation where the star dominates the ball and everyone else stands around. Even when Lebron is "getting his teamates into the game" he's usually just standing around and watching them instead. Then when the pressure is on, the "star" players only trust themselves so they start dominating the ball even more.

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2016, 09:43 AM »
Impressive win by Cleveland last night.  LeBron had the outside shot going and Kyrie was, well, over 70% FPG.  I'm really surprised that they've gotten two wins out of their iso ball play -- I'm sure it helped on both the offensive and defensive sides that Green was out.  Maybe Cleveland can scratch out another win at home, but I still don't see how they win the series with Game 7 at GS.  GS at their best will beat Cleveland at their best, so Cleveland just has to hope to foul things up enough on the defensive side to throw GS off, and pray LeBron and Kyrie can sustain this pace for another 96 minutes.
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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2016, 08:09 AM »
That was a great game last night.  Cleveland's offense finally looked in sync, with LeBron creating opportunities for others off the dribble and drive.  You see how crucial Bogut is for his interior defense and rebounding.  Tristan Thompson owned the paint last night.  I got a little worried at the end of the 3rd quarter, when they slowed things down and started playing lazy as if they had already won the game, with LeBron just holding the ball for 20 seconds then taking a stupid shot.  To be fair, it's easy as an armchair coach to tell a player to pick up the pace  who has basically played the entire game without any rest -- he looked a little tired at that point.  But they got their energy back in the 4th and held off the run by Golden State.

I sympathize with the poor officiating on GS.  Some of the reach in fouls he was called for were completely bogus.  But it was a pleasure to see the MVP lose his cool and bean a fan with his mouthguard like a petulant teenager.

I have to hand it to Cleveland.  I really didn't think they would be able to push it to Game 7, especially when they had to play the elimination game 5 at GS.  But they've managed to muck things up and take GS off their game.  And when Curry or Thompson go on a mini streak, they haven't come unravelled and started turning the ball over, and have always had an answer on offense.

This has been a weird series.  A few games were neck and neck into the early 4th quarter, but otherwise the victories for each team have been lopsided.  I like Cleveland's chances in Game 7, despite the venue, but I'm not going to bet on it.  If GS plays to their potential, and starts making the shots they've missed these last two games, there's no team on earth that can stop them.  I just hope that the Cleveland players other than LeBron and Kyrie will be ready when the ball comes to them, because he's most effective when he has an assist option to kick out to or hit rolling to the basket.  LeBron can be a lot like Kobe sometimes, and become his own worst enemy when he starts trying to do everything himself.  When it works, like last night, it's brilliant.  But when it doesn't,  it can completely sink the team.
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Offline Elmar50

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2016, 10:50 AM »
It's been a great series. I've grown disenchanted with big time spectator sports in the 21st century, but the NBA is a 50 yr habit I can't shake off, especially the playoffs. GS is full of itself, but they have  brought the best out in their opponents and made for the most  entertaining postseason in recent memory. I wish the series would not have gone 7 though, as I now have a conflict with a book club meeting. Dang.

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2016, 09:47 AM »
Predictions for tonight?

My heart says Cleveland, but my head says Golden State.

I'll go with the heart though and say Cleveland +5
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Offline Elmar50

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2016, 11:07 AM »
Rooting for Cleveland; it's a tossup- tough to win three in a row against a great team.

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2016, 06:13 PM »
I've gotta say, though, after watching his media appearances throughout the playoffs, including the final one he did yesterday, Steve Kerr has to be the most personally likeable coach in the NBA.  I lived in Chicago in the mid 90s, and had respect for him as a player, but I didn't realize what a smart and astute guy he was.  He has this way of responding to the bullsh*t questions reporters tend to ask at press conferences ("How much pressure do you feel in this situation?"  "What would it be like to win/lose Game 7"  "What does Curry mean for your team?") that neither puts them down and belittles both the reporter and question, like, say Greg Popovich does (in a very entertaining way, though), or feeding them some vacuous mumbo-jumbo that all the coaches and players are trained to do nowadays.  He's able to be honest and genuine, calling attention to the absurdity that sports reporting often is, while simultaneously accepting whole heartedly as a small price to be paid for fame and fortune offered by the League:

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/playoffs/finals/2016/06/18/20160618-media-avail-steve-kerr.nba/ 
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Offline #Tee

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2016, 06:32 PM »
im actually excited for this one! gs plays alot better when their back is against the wall. I think cavs iso ball will be their down fall. if barnes wants a max he better make up for it this game...they been sagging and daring him to shoot for the last 3 games and its better than hack a thompson.
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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2016, 11:13 PM »
What an incredible game.  Maybe not the best Game 7 in terms of level of play, but probably the most thrilling one I can remember since the Bulls final Championship win over the Jazz.

Every time GS sank a three, I thought it was going to get away from Cleveland, but they just hung around and kept on punching back.  And how fitting that a series of lopsided wins ended with a game that was so tight the whole way through?  And the drama of the last 30 seconds, where each team made crucial mistakes, then Cleveland's final possession, where James, who never gets hurt, goes down hard -- from the looks of it I thought he might've fractured his hand -- and then having to shoot those free throws to make it a two possession game; misses the first with that bum hand, but then ices the second.

Despite the triple double LeBron didn't even have that great of a game offensively (I think he was under 40% FGP), but this was ultimately a slug fest where the last man standing was going to win.  Just think of what his assist numbers would be if his teammates had actually made the shots they were supposed to?

I'm really happy for the city of Cleveland.

And Cleveland +4, so I was only 1 point off.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 11:00 AM by Edward A Reno III »
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Offline #Tee

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Re: NBA Finals thread
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2016, 11:22 PM »
im still salty lol, but i have to give bron his due. that block he had on iggy changed the game. curry was outplayed by irvin all series. bron was truely the league mvp.
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