Author Topic: Adding color to Epoxy filler  (Read 2628 times)

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Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3594
Adding color to Epoxy filler
« on: June 22, 2018, 05:04 PM »
I'm doing a desk for my new office, and am utilizing a tile pattern made from Ipe off cuts like I did for a series of tables for a Japanese restaurant over the winter. With those, I found that wood movement ended up cracking the wood filler I initially used, so I switched over to a more flexible sealer type filler. This eventually did the trick, but it took a bunch of applications to achieve.

This time around I chamfered all the tiles to get an even "grout" line.  I'm also not going to screw around with filler, and am using the west system epoxy. I haven't decided whether I will add color or just keep it clear, but I'm wondering what are some good products to dye the filler with.

I experimented with a couple of powders I got off amazon, but haven't been happy so far with the results. I even tried mixing in some fine ipe sawdust, but found that clogged the syringe I have to use in a couple of spots to get the filler all the way in the crack.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5064
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2018, 05:36 PM »
Trans Tint and Mixol make liquid dyes that may work. Woodcraft sells both both of them. 

Offline Twoodman66

  • Posts: 95
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2018, 05:49 PM »
Trans tint,mixol, universal  cal-tint

Online RDMuller

  • Posts: 296
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2018, 05:54 PM »
Call West Systems. They sell some colorings. Their tech support is excellent

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3529
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2018, 07:34 PM »
West Marine sells  tubes of resin colouring agents in 6 primary colours. If you can mix or understand colour theory you should be able to get the colour you want.
I have used them and they work well. Mixol works too.
Tim

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2503
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2018, 10:30 PM »
System 3 makes good colors - a small drop is all you need for a decent batch of epoxy. You can customize the color mixing different ones. Amazon carries them all.

Offline chewy

  • Posts: 85
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2018, 03:24 AM »
That looks gorgeous already! Can't wait to see if after you done the joints.
Years ago I was on site and a builder said you can always tell a good tiler cause it'll look good even before its grouted. The tiler was doing a very complex layout and it looked amazing with tile spacers sticking out (he use to remove them before grout) This reminds me of that [emoji41]

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2018, 03:49 PM »
Thanks for the comments. I'm trying Transtint first -- bottle already arrived via 1 day shipping, and now I'm riding to figure out ratios, as there is nothing on their data sheet about how much to add for epoxy fillers.

Any tips?
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline tjskinny

  • Posts: 75
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2018, 05:06 PM »
I used the West System epoxy with the dark walnut Transtint to fill knot holes and splits in a white oak wood floor I put down.  It worked very very well.

I used the West System 300 mini pumps, 2 pumps of resin with 2 pumps of hardener which is 1.6 fl oz, with just a drop of Transtint.  With just that drop the expoxy / tint mixture was still very dark which is what I wanted.  But it does not take much dye at all to tint the epoxy.  You’ll have to experiment some to get what you want, but go with a drop at a time of Transtint to get the color you are after.

This is what it looks like before and after sanding followed by Osmo.

« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 05:11 PM by tjskinny »

Online Koamolly

  • Posts: 52
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2018, 05:50 PM »
Not sure how you’re applying epoxy, taking it all apart and gluing or just applying with syringe already assembled.  West Systems makes G/flex which has a bit of give to it which might work better than their 105.  Also you can heat it up whatever epoxy you use a bit with a heat gun so it flows easier if you’re just using a syringe.  Heating the wood right before applying also helps flow and absorption. I’ve used the black West Marine tint in a tube and as others have said, it doesn’t take much, just a drop or two.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2018, 06:34 AM »
That floor looks great @tjskinny .  From what I'm gathering a little tint goes a long way, and because it will be nestled in the cracks, there's no need for it to be completely opaque to get the desired effect.  I just found this short video demonstration that makes it look pretty straightforward:



@Koamolly The ipe tiles are already set in place, so I'm filling it already assembled.  I guess I can try keeping a hairdryer running on the pot as I work.  I plan on mixing up a series of small batches as I go, rather than one or two big batches.  The West System pre-portioned pumps makes it all pretty simple.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline Vondawg

  • Posts: 226
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2018, 07:07 AM »
Warm the epoxy on the material.. heating the pot will make it go off quicker and you’ll have to mix another batch
There are no mistakes....just new designs.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5064
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2018, 10:12 AM »
Hey @tjskinny , curious what grade of white oak you used for the floor. The floor looks great by the way. [big grin]

Hey Edward, I'm assuming the tiles are 3/4" thick so that's a pretty deep trench to fill. I'd do it in 3-4 batches. Keep the syringe close to the level of the fill to prevent additional air bubbles from forming.

The air bubbles will rise to the surface on each pour which is fine. On the final pour however, the air bubbles will need to be popped either with an object or with heat. I've tried both and find that using a needle is a more messy proposition but good for the first series of air bubbles when the epoxy is still very runny. As the epoxy starts to thicken, then the needle will not break the surface tension of the epoxy and some heat is needed. I use a Mapp/propane torch.

Those air bubbles will keep coming for 15-20 minutes so you need to keep checking the progress. It's likely that when you're finished and you're sanding the epoxy, there may be a couple of air bubbles that you missed, which will leave little craters. Just mix some more epoxy and overfill the craters. After sanding, everything will blend in and appear to be a contiguous surface.

Have fun... [big grin]


Offline tjskinny

  • Posts: 75
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2018, 12:33 PM »
Thanks @ear3 and @Cheese

Now that video would have been handy..

Good point on the bubbles.  Depending on the size of the knot, I did have to make up to 3 pours so the bubbles didn’t form and get “ trapped”.  Not saying it didn’t happen a couple of times..   ::)

The flooring was #2 character grade.

Look forward to seeing your finished desk.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 12:35 PM by tjskinny »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3571
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2018, 12:47 PM »
Re heating the work and air bubbles, Read this, especially reply #13.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5064
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2018, 12:55 PM »
Re heating the work and air bubbles, Read this, especially reply #13.

Hey Michael, your link won’t come up.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 01:05 PM by Cheese »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3571
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2018, 01:17 PM »
Can’t add links from iPad...

So, google search Robb White’s epoxy trick and the top result among the Wooden boat forum results will take you to a thread discussing how Mr. White applied epoxy to get exceptional filling and minimize bubbles on large complex forms.

Reply #13 is the best.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5064

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3571
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2018, 06:11 PM »
Thanks Cheese but that’s not the thread I was aiming for so here’s the reply that has the concise info.

“Rob totally encapsulated his popular with epoxy by heating the shop and wood quite a bit then cooling it off after the epoxy was on, which he claimed helped the epoxy be drawn into the wood. It worked for him, but I've not seen others use this technique.
Actually his method is the preferred method by Gougeon Bros. and has been the only acceptable method for aircraft composites including with wood since the 50s.

The main reason is bubbles greatly detract from the structural strength and are unpredictable. From my growing up with dad and the others at Kaman and Dad's original research at NACA (the NASA precursor) in rotor tips going supersonic in a helicopter dive (circa 1950-51) such uncontrolable variance was totally unacceptable. Don't forget that Robb had a PHD level education and never stopped learning. He often hid his level of education under his homespun sense of humor. I miss him too gang. He got into epoxies and read up all about them and the best ways to use them. Smart man. Any rise in temperature after putting on the epoxy will, WILL, cause outgassing. Outgassing will cause bubbles which are not controlable and will weaken your composite.

When I repair (3 times now) and old plywood ChrisCraft or cold molded Wolverine that has delaminated I always heat the section with a heat gun just before putting the epoxy in to the delam section with a glue hypodermic and then turn on the vacuum. Then you let it cool as it cures. Never add heat to a two part epoxy to make it cure faster..or you will get half the strength or less.

I'll try and post some pictures I have of the ChrisCraft Cavalier I saved the topsides on when it was delam inside and out.

Chase
Last edited by ChaseKenyon; 04-05-2009 at 11:21 PM.”

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2018, 09:07 PM »
Thanks @Cheese , super helpful advice.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Adding color to Epoxy filler
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2018, 09:17 PM »
BTW,  has anyone ever tried adding tint to Surfix? I'm making the base of the desk out of cherry, and might want to experiment with darkening it a bit. Illjedbean@yahoo.com probably get some samples of osmo color oils to test, but since I'm using surfix for the ipe top, it'd be nice to go with same basic finish on the entire piece.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3