Author Topic: Face frame application  (Read 1519 times)

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Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3406
Face frame application
« on: October 11, 2017, 08:29 AM »
Just curious about what people's preferred method of applying the face frame to the cabinet carcasse is.  Most of the cabinet construction I've done has been frameless up to this point -- the couple of face frame constructions I've done I've used 4mm dominoes (though only on two sides, as it's a bear to get all 4 sides perfectly aligned with the cabinet edges) -- but I'm currently building a large floor cabinet that will have a face frame.  I'm wondering though if dominoes or even ff biscuits aren't overkill, as I see plenty of examples of folks just using glue and some sort of shortcut for alignment, like in the following video:



The cabinet sides will be visible, but I'm adding a top to the carcasse, so doing pocket holes on the outer face of the top and bottom of the cabinet would also be possible.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

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Offline escan

  • Posts: 27
Re: Face frame application
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2017, 08:38 AM »
Rabbeted 1/2 ply backs, 3/4 ply dadoed top/bottom and just glue with clamps every 10" to face frames 12" or less. 12" or greater and pocket holes on top and bottom.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5310
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Face frame application
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2017, 09:46 AM »
T&G

If you can pocket screw to assemble it makes life easier. Use the 1" screws.

If you have to clamp the frame on in place make shelf hole blocks our buy these.

https://www.fastcap.com/estore/pc/viewprd.asp?idproduct=55529

Tom


Offline J0hn

  • Posts: 116
Re: Face frame application
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2017, 02:45 PM »
Biscuits

If you like the tongue and groove method - you should watch some of Sommerfield's video's

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sommerfeld+cabinet+making


Offline c_dwyer

  • Posts: 112
Re: Face frame application
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2017, 06:14 PM »
Although I typically use Domino's for the face frames now that I have one, I use pocket holes for applying the frames to the cabinet boxes unless they're going to show, such as the inside of a bookcase.  If that's the case, I use a finish nailer and just fill the holes afterward.

Offline RDMuller

  • Posts: 258
Re: Face frame application
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2017, 09:34 PM »
T&G

If you can pocket screw to assemble it makes life easier. Use the 1" screws.

If you have to clamp the frame on in place make shelf hole blocks our buy these.

https://www.fastcap.com/estore/pc/viewprd.asp?idproduct=55529

Tom


Has anyone in the forum used the Fastcap clamp Tom referred to.   I have used Dominos, but they can really be finicky if things aren't perfect.  My thoughts are to do a domino test fit and if there are any problems -- use Dominos on one vertical stile only and use the Fastcap clamp on the other.  The Domino would do a great job of getting the frame "hanging" and positioned.  Fastclamp would let you move on if thinks aren't perfect

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5310
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Face frame application
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2017, 10:23 PM »
T&G

If you can pocket screw to assemble it makes life easier. Use the 1" screws.

If you have to clamp the frame on in place make shelf hole blocks our buy these.

https://www.fastcap.com/estore/pc/viewprd.asp?idproduct=55529

Tom


Has anyone in the forum used the Fastcap clamp Tom referred to.   I have used Dominos, but they can really be finicky if things aren't perfect.  My thoughts are to do a domino test fit and if there are any problems -- use Dominos on one vertical stile only and use the Fastcap clamp on the other.  The Domino would do a great job of getting the frame "hanging" and positioned.  Fastclamp would let you move on if thinks aren't perfect


Like you, I use pocket holes screws where they're not going to be visible.

I made some blocks with 5mm pins 32mm o.c. that I insert into shelf hole if they're part of the cabinet build. If there are no shelf pin holes I place masking tape on the box, hot glue a block to the tape, clamp, once glue is set, remove clamp, remove block with tape.

Tom

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3406
Re: Face frame application
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2017, 07:53 AM »
Thanks for the replies.  Fortunately I did not have a complicated face frame like ones pictured in the thread -- just a 4-piece rectangle around the outer edges of the cabinet, so I ended up doing a combination of 4mm dominoes along one vertical and one rail, and pocket screws in the top and bottom.  One thing that helped with fitting is that I rubbed the dominoes a few quick passes on my sanding block, so that they would have a slightly loose fit, and I did the mortises with the widest setting on the DF500.  Bow clamps are also very useful for the glue down, and I only needed two clamps per edge.  I made the frame a smidge oversize so that I was able to rout it flush once the glue had set.   
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline Letsonbandr

  • Posts: 11
Re: Face frame application
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2017, 10:24 AM »
Just figured I would throw it out there that if you plan for the added width, use an unfinished sheet of plywood for the carcass and then laminate a sheet of 1/2" prefinished ply along the sides that will show.  You can still use pocket holes and then when the 1/2" goes in they are covered.  Yes another step, yes added material costs, but another method if the application warrants it. 
DF700, MFT3 with CMSVL, DF500, OF1400, TS55, RO125

Offline Getmaverick

  • Posts: 87
Re: Face frame application
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2017, 03:54 PM »
T&G

If you can pocket screw to assemble it makes life easier. Use the 1" screws.

If you have to clamp the frame on in place make shelf hole blocks our buy these.

https://www.fastcap.com/estore/pc/viewprd.asp?idproduct=55529

Tom
Is there a reason you run your top and bottom rails that way? Personal preference?
Generally your top and bottom rails butt into your stiles.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5310
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Face frame application
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2017, 08:47 PM »
T&G

If you can pocket screw to assemble it makes life easier. Use the 1" screws.

If you have to clamp the frame on in place make shelf hole blocks our buy these.

https://www.fastcap.com/estore/pc/viewprd.asp?idproduct=55529

Tom
Is there a reason you run your top and bottom rails that way? Personal preference?
Generally your top and bottom rails butt into your stiles.

This is an alcove install. Made the math easier. The end grain will not be visible.

The towers are conventionally built.

Tom

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3483
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: Face frame application
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2017, 09:28 AM »

Has anyone in the forum used the Fastcap clamp Tom referred to. 

The clamps were invented by a cabinet maker Chase Perdue, of Matthew Chase Woodworks. Here is a video explaining why and how he uses them.
I am not a fan of Fastcap or their products (I have some, 2P10, Third hand etc.) but I admire Matthew's work so this product has some merit.

Tim