Author Topic: Fun with magnets  (Read 5426 times)

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Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3295
Fun with magnets
« on: May 19, 2017, 07:17 AM »
So I'm finishing up the set of base cabinets for an entertainment center I was commissioned to build, and just wanted to share the solution I cam up with for the center unit, which will house the flat screen TV lift mechanism.

The specs called for a faux double door front panel that was easily removable so that the lift mechanism/TV could be installed, but the hardware for making it removable had to be hidden and couldn't project far into the cavity where the lift would be.

I had never tried this before, but I decided to go with magnets.

Although it wasn't completely necessary (since the edge of the carcasse would be hidden by the panel), I decided to get tricky and embed one set of magnets in the hardwood edge banding on the front edge of the case.  This involved doing a double line of white oak edging strips, the first one more or less the exact thickness of the magnets (around 1/8" thick), and the second basically the same size -- thin enough to allow the magnetic action to work through the wood and a bit extra to allow me to waste away a bit with the jointer plane to make the edge straight and smooth.

I drilled through holes in the first strip in which the magnets would sit -- the magnets where 12mm diameter, so I made the center point 5/16" from the inside of the case -- and then laid that strip with some glue on the edge along with the magnets:

263543-0

Covered it with the second strip of edging and glued it up as per normal.  In total I embedded 12 of these magnets around the edge of the 47" x 30 1/2" case.  Here's a side view of the open case without the panel -- the inner panel is 1/2" ply that gets screwed in and behind which are going to be all the cords and stuff:

263545-1

Here you can see the position of some of the magnets when I did the set-up for the panel, laying the magnets over the top of the wood so I could double check their position and orientation of their magnetic poles:

263547-2

The removable panel was made out of a solid white oak frame with 1/2" white oak ply inset from the back into a rabbet.  I drilled the corresponding holes in the back of the panel and secured the facing set of magnets with CA glue.  The holding power of the magnets was enough to prevent lateral movement, but the panel was still slipping down so I also installed some 1/4" cleats/stops at the bottom that would stop the panel from falling:

263549-3

Viewed from the top the cleats are thin enough such that they won't interfere with the lift mechanism:

263551-4

The combination of magnets and cleats makes the panel super secure once installed, but easily removable just by pulling it from the top off the edge.  The panel is short of the top of the case by 7/8" since the horizontal surface/counter-top is going to have a 3/4" overhang (+ 1/8" reveal/clearance):

263553-5

263555-6

263557-7

263559-8

Problem solved.

 


« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 07:26 AM by Edward A Reno III »
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

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Online neilc

  • Posts: 2147
Re: Fun with magnets
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2017, 08:06 AM »
Great idea, Edward!

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 555
Re: Fun with magnets
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2017, 09:25 AM »
Very cool.

I did a small toolbox for marking knives that has a magnet to keep the lid on.  It's not for carrying around, but I hardly ever get it out of the drawer - usually just open the top, grab a knife, and put the top back on.  It's easy to get multiple levels of tools in the drawer that way.  With that experience in mind, nice job of precisely locating the magnets!


Offline mike_aa

  • Posts: 965
Re: Fun with magnets
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2017, 12:08 PM »
@Edward A Reno III  Edward,

Thanks for sharing a really brilliant idea!  That is some "out of the box" thinking!  I have an application coming up where I could put this to use. 

Not sure where you sourced your magnets, but in the past I've had good luck ordering from:

http://www.cmsmagnetics.com/

I also found another source with a lot of fun info:  http://www.kjmagnetics.com/

Thanks, Mike A.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3295
Re: Fun with magnets
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2017, 04:39 PM »
Thanks -- I just checked my original Amazon order and it turns out it was provided by CMS Magnetics as well.


@Edward A Reno III  Edward,

Thanks for sharing a really brilliant idea!  That is some "out of the box" thinking!  I have an application coming up where I could put this to use. 

Not sure where you sourced your magnets, but in the past I've had good luck ordering from:

http://www.cmsmagnetics.com/

I also found another source with a lot of fun info:  http://www.kjmagnetics.com/

Thanks, Mike A.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3295
Re: Fun with magnets
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2017, 04:14 PM »
Just delivered the cabinets to the designer and got a big thumbs up for the magnets.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3295
Re: Fun with magnets
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2017, 04:41 PM »
Installed the base molding i milled on the cabinets today (designer will stain in place). The bottom base cabinets are my work, and someone else was commissioned to weld the top cabinets.  Doors open on either side, and as already mentioned, the front panel pops off easily with the magnets.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 04:46 PM by Edward A Reno III »
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Online Bob D.

  • Posts: 634
Re: Fun with magnets
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2017, 05:09 AM »
I wish I had thought of this a few years back when I built a kitchen island.
This island has a electric cooktop with a pop-up downdraft fan. I needed to
provide a means of accessing the fan should maintenance be required down
the road so I made some panels that matched the base cabinet door panels
which I mounted on a face frame just like the front of a base cabinet and
made French cleats on the back side of the panels that let me insert the panel
and it dropped down a fraction of an inch to lock it in place.

But using magnets would have been a much easier and more elegant solution.
What I did works and looks fine, but I would like the magnet solution and will
use in on future work as a solution to similar problems. Thanks for sharing.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline woodsmann

  • Posts: 13
Re: Fun with magnets
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2017, 08:40 AM »
Great work. I would love to see a video of the panel "in action". I would also like to see it after the lift is installed..
Woodsmann

Offline MarkBrenners

  • Posts: 5
Re: Fun with magnets
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2017, 09:19 AM »
Ye it looks very cool, a video would be nice!

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3477
Re: Fun with magnets
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2017, 12:04 PM »

I drilled the corresponding holes in the back of the panel and secured the facing set of magnets with CA glue. 


FWIW Edward...I use magnets as an invisible latch, meaning that you bring a small steel bar attached to a handle, close to the door panel/magnets and you can then open up the door. On 2 different projects I had the CA glue fail after many opening/closing cycles. This meant the magnets fell out of their drilled pockets and landed behind the door on the floor.
Thus the steel bar/handle was no longer magnetically attracted to the front of the door and thus was unable to open the door up. In both cases, the doors had to be pried open using thin dental picks while trying not to damage the adjoining panels. This was a lengthy process as the doors were attached with a pair of Blum hinges that were trying their best to keep the door closed.

I've since changed my magnet insertion process:
1. I now drill pocket holes for the magnets that are a snug press in with-your-thumbs fit.
2. I now drill the recessed magnet holes about 1/32" deeper than the magnet thickness which allows...
3. A small dab of construction adhesive to be applied to the back of the magnet before it is pressed into the hole. I've had no issues with the construction adhesive giving up the ghost as opposed to the CA.  [cool]

Nice job on the cabinet by the way. [thumbs up]
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 12:07 PM by Cheese »

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3295
Re: Fun with magnets
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2017, 08:00 AM »
Thanks for the heads up @Cheese You got me a little worried now.  The removable panel should be fine, since it will not be subject to regular removal/replacement, and will only really come off if something goes wrong with the TV lift mechanism.

I did, however, also use a single magnet at the top corner of each door on the side cabinets.  The hinges are self-closing, but because the doors are so large they needed that magnetic pull to get them over the finish line.   I guess time will tell.


I drilled the corresponding holes in the back of the panel and secured the facing set of magnets with CA glue. 


FWIW Edward...I use magnets as an invisible latch, meaning that you bring a small steel bar attached to a handle, close to the door panel/magnets and you can then open up the door. On 2 different projects I had the CA glue fail after many opening/closing cycles. This meant the magnets fell out of their drilled pockets and landed behind the door on the floor.
Thus the steel bar/handle was no longer magnetically attracted to the front of the door and thus was unable to open the door up. In both cases, the doors had to be pried open using thin dental picks while trying not to damage the adjoining panels. This was a lengthy process as the doors were attached with a pair of Blum hinges that were trying their best to keep the door closed.

I've since changed my magnet insertion process:
1. I now drill pocket holes for the magnets that are a snug press in with-your-thumbs fit.
2. I now drill the recessed magnet holes about 1/32" deeper than the magnet thickness which allows...
3. A small dab of construction adhesive to be applied to the back of the magnet before it is pressed into the hole. I've had no issues with the construction adhesive giving up the ghost as opposed to the CA.  [cool]

Nice job on the cabinet by the way. [thumbs up]
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Online Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 292
Re: Fun with magnets
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2017, 06:13 AM »
This is a little bit of a hijack, but it has to do with magnets and problem solving, here goes...

I am currently working on a contemporary project. All the doors are flush sliders (inset bypass when multiple).  The owners desires minimal visible hardware to keep the doors aligned in the openings. We have solved the single door Hardware issues, but cannot find a suitable solution for the multiple panels. Floor mounted hardware is pretty unsightly and there are no stops on the jambs.

I'm wondering if there is a strong enough magnet that could be installed on the bottom of the doors to minimize swing and keep the panels aligned whether opened or closed. Likely there will be a delrin type pad between the doors to eliminate the panels touching each other.

Any and all suggestions are appreciated.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 03:17 PM by Naildrivingman »
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3477
Re: Fun with magnets
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2017, 09:02 AM »
Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

Just curious if a photo is available?

Online Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 292
Re: Fun with magnets
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2017, 03:20 PM »
Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

Just curious if a photo is available?
I can get one next week. I'll have to learn how to post it here.

Basically, the bypass doors are hung on two pocket door tracks, no stops on the side jambs and no guides or hardware on the floor.
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 526
Re: Fun with magnets
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2017, 04:02 PM »
Nice job.  An alternative to magnets could be http://button-fix.com/button-fix-type-1-fix/

I've got some, but have yet to use them on a project.

Andrew
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Online Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 292
Re: Fun with magnets
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2017, 04:50 PM »
Nice job.  An alternative to magnets could be http://button-fix.com/button-fix-type-1-fix/

I've got some, but have yet to use them on a project.

Andrew
I will review that link, thanks!
Dance with who brung ya...