Author Topic: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?  (Read 8559 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Vanquish

  • Posts: 54
Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« on: July 09, 2015, 10:58 PM »
Hey guys, I'm looking for a better, faster and cleaner way to trim my edge banding. I'm just finishing up a job that required about 250' of maple iron on edge banding, and I have another one coming up at the end of the month. The last job I did, I used a FastCap quad trimmer, and I was not impressed with the results.   

This time I tried using my small Ridgid trim router with a Freud bevel trim bit. Since it's a bit tricky balancing the router on the edge of the board, I set the bit so it would leave about 1/64" or less of banding on each side in case I tilted the router a bit, that way it wouldn't cut into the face of the plywood. Then I came back with a 1" chisel to trim it flush and remove the left over glue so it wouldn't gunk up my sanding discs.

A bit time consuming, and that router made a terrible mess, hot glue sawdust all over the shop, but it resulted in the most perfect edge banding trim job I've done. And I only went through 2 discs for my sander. [smile]

Are there any tips or other tools I could use to make this process faster and less tedious?

Thanks!

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Online Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3473
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2015, 11:21 PM »
Mfk 700 with zero degree base and no file trim bit or similar.
Very fast on de setup, and very little sanding.
Tim

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5265
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2015, 11:46 PM »
MFK 700 here also.

Tom

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8005
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2015, 11:53 PM »
I use the Fast Cap Carbide Quad trimmer BUT, I found that it works much better when taken apart and used as a single edge trimmer rather than a double edge trimmer.

I have not used the 700 for thin glue on banding. I generally use the Fast Cap peel and stick for this type and I just don't think that adhesive would go well in the router.


Seth

Offline Chris Wong

  • Festool Dealer
  • *
  • Posts: 861
  • I make sculptural furniture.
    • Flair Woodworks
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2015, 12:16 AM »
The MFK 700 with 1.5 degree base would be my choice for power tools.  It's very stable, can be adjusted in very fine increments, and does a good job relatively quickly.

If the material is not prone to having the grain run when cutting it with an edge tool (e.g. you can cut with the grain), I find that a block plane with the blade set flush to the sole and the toe piece removed does a very good job very quickly.  Or you can use a dedicated tool such as the Veritas Cabinetmaker's Trimming Plane.

Chris Wong, http://FlairWoodworks.com

The thoughts and ideas expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of http://UltimateTools.ca.  But Dan does say "hello".

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 556
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2015, 02:05 AM »
You can make a base similar to this one:
https://www.canadianwoodworking.com/plans-projects/flush-trim-router-jig

I use a much smaller version with my Dewalt 611.  Works great, and also the reason I haven't justified a MFK700.
"What you have to do tomorrow, do today.  What you have to do today, do now."  - a wise grandfather who was clearly talking about purchasing Festools

Offline Brent Taylor

  • Posts: 471
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2015, 08:11 AM »
I've used a edge trimmer made by Virutex,  I had it for 30 plus years, so it may not be made anymore,  if it is mine is a single edge reversible,  orange in colour.  Other than that I use a laminate router with a jig for cutting edge banding,  mine is made of plywood,  hundreds of them are online,  flush cut router jigs should get you there.

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3343
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2015, 08:14 AM »
I'm sticking with my MFK 700, too.  Depending upon the material being trimmed, I may use either the 0° or 1.5° base. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Online Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 379
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2015, 09:04 AM »
As it happens earlier this week I had a talk with an oldtimer cabinet builder about this. He used a sharp chisel for man made edge banding (in other words: plastic and such) and sandpaper for the veneer kind. Seeing him cut banding with a chisel I said to myself ‘I will never be able to do that…’
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 11:51 AM by Bert Vanderveen »
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

TS55 · TS55R · OF1010 · DF500 Mk2 · MFT/3 + VL + CMS TS55 + CMS PS300 + LA-CS 70/CMS · CTL Midi · RTS400 EQ · 2 x CXS Li 1,5 · T15+3 Li 4,2 · TI15 Impact Li 4,2 · Centrotec Sets 2008 + 2015 · PSB300 · LR32-SYS · RO150 · Kapex KS120 · 2 x MFK700 · RO90 · OFK700 · BS75 · OFK500 … | Mirka 1230L P&C | Hammer A3 31 Silent Power · Hammer N4400 

Online Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3473
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2015, 10:45 AM »
As it happens earlier this week I had a talk with an oldtimer cabinet builder about this. He used a sharp chisel for ma made edge banding (in other words: plastic and such) and sandpaper for the veneer kind. Seeing him cut banding with a chisel I said to myself ‘I will never be able to do that…’

I used to use a box cutter...worked well as long as they are sharp, but you have to pay attention and keep the bladea right angle to the edge otherwise you slice the veneer or melamine off. Works way better than those stupid Virutex double edge cutters.
I suppose you could use a cabinet triming plane as well.
Tim

Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 530
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2015, 11:58 AM »
How about an OF1010 with the edge banding accessories?  It works well enough for me, and is a lot less expensive than a dedicated router such as an MFK 700.

Andrew
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 1958
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2015, 12:14 PM »
How about an OF1010 with the edge banding accessories?  It works well enough for me, and is a lot less expensive than a dedicated router such as an MFK 700.

Andrew
  Got a picture of your set-up?  I own a OF1010 but haven't had a need to do any edge banding during this past year.  [tongue]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7231
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2015, 12:36 PM »
How about an OF1010 with the edge banding accessories?  It works well enough for me, and is a lot less expensive than a dedicated router such as an MFK 700.

Andrew
  Got a picture of your set-up?  I own a OF1010 but haven't had a need to do any edge banding during this past year.  [tongue]

I've got a short piece on these accessories on my blog, Festool edge routing accessories.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Vanquish

  • Posts: 54
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2015, 12:38 PM »
I know almost nothing about the mfk700. Is it more of a dedicated timing router, or can it handle other tasks as well?

Chris, I was actually just looking at that cabinet makers plane last week. I assume if the blade is sharp enough, it wouldn't tear the banding when you cut it? That was the problem I was having with the quad trimmer. Maybe it was a combination of that and the maple banding I was using, but it was kind of stringy like, and would rip it rather than cut.

What sort of attachment do you use for the of1010? The router isn't too bulky to trim smaller pieces?

Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 530
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2015, 02:07 PM »
How about an OF1010 with the edge banding accessories?  It works well enough for me, and is a lot less expensive than a dedicated router such as an MFK 700.

Andrew
  Got a picture of your set-up?  I own a OF1010 but haven't had a need to do any edge banding during this past year.  [tongue]

I've got a short piece on these accessories on my blog, Festool edge routing accessories.

Brice, thanks you for providing the link, I was otherwise going to post it myself.  It was your original post that persuaded me to get the OF1010 and accessories, a purchase I've never regretted!

Andrew
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 1958
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2015, 03:00 PM »
How about an OF1010 with the edge banding accessories?  It works well enough for me, and is a lot less expensive than a dedicated router such as an MFK 700.

Andrew
  Got a picture of your set-up?  I own a OF1010 but haven't had a need to do any edge banding during this past year.  [tongue]

I've got a short piece on these accessories on my blog, Festool edge routing accessories.
  Thanks Brice, that was very helpful.. [cool]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 737
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2015, 03:40 PM »
I've personally tried every method mentioned here except for the Virtutex and the CCW jig, if your a professional get the MFK700 if you want simplicity and speed. Its the only way I've found to get consistently great results. The next best is the OF1010 attachments if you have that router. Every other method depends on the type of material being trimmed as to whether you get consistently good results.

John

Offline Chris Wong

  • Festool Dealer
  • *
  • Posts: 861
  • I make sculptural furniture.
    • Flair Woodworks
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2015, 08:22 PM »
Chris, I was actually just looking at that cabinet makers plane last week. I assume if the blade is sharp enough, it wouldn't tear the banding when you cut it? That was the problem I was having with the quad trimmer. Maybe it was a combination of that and the maple banding I was using, but it was kind of stringy like, and would rip it rather than cut.

Well, I wouldn't even try with a dull blade.  If the grain runs straight and you can work it in the correct direction, it should work well and give you a nice smooth surface.  However, since there is nothing to control tearout or keep the grain from "running" (splitting ahead of the blade), it will not fare well at all against the grain.  You could also try a shear cut towards the material - that should help, too.
Chris Wong, http://FlairWoodworks.com

The thoughts and ideas expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of http://UltimateTools.ca.  But Dan does say "hello".

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8005
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2015, 12:00 AM »
So are you guys using the 700 (or 1010) to trim thin edge banding (tape) that has really sticky adhesive on it? I just want to know how well that works out.

Seth

Offline rnt80

  • Posts: 953
    • Agape Wood Design
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2015, 12:12 AM »
Hahaha. Exactly what I was thinking, Seth.  I used the 1010 years ago and it was a mess.  I ended up with adhesive all over the bit and the router base.

Quote from: SRSemenza link=topic=41172.msg405824#msg405824

date=1436587206
So are you guys using the 700 (or 1010) to trim thin edge banding (tape) that has really sticky adhesive on it? I just want to know how well that works out.

Seth
Russell Tribby
Gilbert AZ
www.agapewooddesign.com

Offline Vanquish

  • Posts: 54
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2015, 12:39 AM »
So are you guys using the 700 (or 1010) to trim thin edge banding (tape) that has really sticky adhesive on it? I just want to know how well that works out.

Seth


When I was using my little Ridgid router, I kept spraying the bit with BladeCote. It helped control the the glue build up some. Still had to stop and scrape the glue off once in a while though. With a router with dust collection, it would probably be a bit better.

Offline Bohdan

  • Posts: 791
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2015, 06:05 AM »
The metal scraper part #499749 is designed to use with the Conturo to trim and clean up the edge of the edgebanding after you cut off the excess with a trimmer. It is solid tungsten carbide so should last a long time.

It works real well on plastic and can even round over the edge, removes surplus glue off the face of melamine sheets. Don't know how it would work on wood veneer.


Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 737
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2015, 07:24 AM »
So are you guys using the 700 (or 1010) to trim thin edge banding (tape) that has really sticky adhesive on it? I just want to know how well that works out.

Seth

Seth are you talking about peel and stick products like whats offered from FastCap? I haven't used it. The worst product that I've had to deal was 3mm PVC. 90% of what I do is real wood typically up to 1/2" thick that's either machine applied with a glue pot edgebander or for the thicker stuff glue and clamp. The other 10% is the typical plastics upto a 1mm thick that are applied with a glue pot edgebander. With the wood there is very little buildup to clean and a little more with the plastics. Never really had a project where I would use that type of product. I think that product would be a pain for any method of trimming.

John

Online Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3473
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2015, 07:55 AM »
So are you guys using the 700 (or 1010) to trim thin edge banding (tape) that has really sticky adhesive on it? I just want to know how well that works out.

I just use the iron on edge banding. The 700 works well with that as the glue cools off before I trim. There is a little glue build up after a 100 or so feet, which I clean off with some mineral spirits.
I have never used the fast cap edge banding.
Tim

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3343
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2015, 08:16 AM »
So are you guys using the 700 (or 1010) to trim thin edge banding (tape) that has really sticky adhesive on it? I just want to know how well that works out.

I just use the iron on edge banding. The 700 works well with that as the glue cools off before I trim. There is a little glue build up after a 100 or so feet, which I clean off with some mineral spirits.
I have never used the fast cap edge banding.
Tim

Iron-on edging is all I ever use.  I have very little build-up on the bit once the glue has set up.  I usually wait 15 minutes or so after banding before trimming.  It's not a planned thing; it's just how it happens in my workflow.  Lacquer thinner or acetone clean the bit quite easily. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7231
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2015, 08:46 AM »
The metal scraper part #499749 is designed to use with the Conturo to trim and clean up the edge of the edgebanding after you cut off the excess with a trimmer. It is solid tungsten carbide so should last a long time.

It works real well on plastic and can even round over the edge, removes surplus glue off the face of melamine sheets. Don't know how it would work on wood veneer.

I bought this part recently, but haven't gotten enough use with it yet to give a meaningful answer to your question.  The very small amount that I used it on iron on wood banding it worked reasonably well removing the residual glue.  The jury is still out on using it to round/ease edges.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline WastedP

  • Posts: 342
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2015, 06:11 PM »
I have used a laminate trimmer to trim wood FastEdge (the quad-trimmer type of tool works well enough on 0.5 mm PVC).  If you have the luxury of letting the edgebanded pieces set overnight after rolling, I recommend it.  Otherwise, I have had the banding move, and the spray of trimmed adhesive gets on everything.  It's a great product for small projects, but I could never imagine trying to build a regular production process around it.

For cleaning up PVC edgebanding on melamine or laminate panels, a razor blade on a stick is a fast, cheap, and good tool.

Offline benwheeler

  • Posts: 164
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2015, 07:07 PM »
We looked at many of these options at a training day yesterday.  The MFK/OFK is definitely the #1 choice by a long chalk, if you can justify the cost.  I was fairly unconvinced by the accessories for the 1010/1400, although they would be acceptable for small projects.

The tungsten carbide scraper mentioned was really excellent - I'll be buying one asap.

For anyone confused by the range of trimmers offered by Festool (as I was), the actual tool is the same for the MFK and OFK.  The only difference is the attachments / accessories.

Offline Vanquish

  • Posts: 54
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2015, 09:41 PM »
Thanks for all the good suggestions. I'm somewhat torn between the MFK700, which looks to be one of the best options, but it's pricey and the OF1010, which isn't exactly cheap, but would be more useful to me at the moment since I could use another router right now anyway.

Of course if the 700 is much faster than the other options, then the time saved would help to offset the cost.

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8005
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2015, 10:47 PM »
Yes, the FastCap peel and stick. It has VERY sticky adhesive that doesn't dry / set fully right away. I think that would be quite different going through a router than iron on.

Seth

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7231
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2015, 10:56 AM »
Thanks for all the good suggestions. I'm somewhat torn between the MFK700, which looks to be one of the best options, but it's pricey and the OF1010, which isn't exactly cheap, but would be more useful to me at the moment since I could use another router right now anyway.

Of course if the 700 is much faster than the other options, then the time saved would help to offset the cost.

There's no question the OF1010 is a more versatile router, but I wouldn't say the MFK700 is a one trick pony.  The 700 is the router I tend to grab first for small profile or small groove/rebate routing.  However, if you need visibility of the bit or to plunge, then the 700 is out.

If you do a moderate to a lot of edge banding, then get MFK700.  The ease of use and the time saved is worth it.  The other uses you'll find for the 700 will be a bonus.   
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3343
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2015, 06:29 PM »
Thanks for all the good suggestions. I'm somewhat torn between the MFK700, which looks to be one of the best options, but it's pricey and the OF1010, which isn't exactly cheap, but would be more useful to me at the moment since I could use another router right now anyway.

Of course if the 700 is much faster than the other options, then the time saved would help to offset the cost.

There's no question the OF1010 is a more versatile router, but I wouldn't say the MFK700 is a one trick pony.  The 700 is the router I tend to grab first for small profile or small groove/rebate routing.  However, if you need visibility of the bit or to plunge, then the 700 is out.

If you do a moderate to a lot of edge banding, then get MFK700.  The ease of use and the time saved is worth it.  The other uses you'll find for the 700 will be a bonus.   

The MFK 700 also shines when doing laminate work. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline bdiemer

  • Posts: 191
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2015, 10:15 AM »
I actually trim it from behind with a sharp chip carving knife and a wood backer (for lack of a better word) in the front. I then trim with a sharp block plane..

Offline aas

  • Posts: 123
Re: Is there a better way to trim edge banding?
« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2015, 10:29 AM »
Another vote for the MFK700 - fantastic tool!