Author Topic: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?  (Read 38485 times)

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Offline sicd_steve

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Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« on: June 05, 2015, 08:14 PM »
I have read so many posts on imperial stickers and the like but why is this necessary I know both measurements and can convert in my head easy enough but why?

They are European tools and metric is the easiest to use, isn't it time the U.S. ditched the medieval measurements of imperial ( even the name sucks) inches foot yards chains etc.

12" to a foot, 3' to a yard, 22 yards to a chain.....great method.

Time for a change and throw away your U.S. stickers as its only laziness not to get behind metric, look we have half half here as well ( Australia ) , boards are in imperial sizes that have metric tags 12mm board 16mm board 18 mm board 19mm board. Why don't we have 10mm 15mm and 20mm all metric sizes.....we too have imperial hang over.

And for me not an imperial sticker to found on my precious Festools.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 08:20 PM by sicd_steve »
"An average woodworker blames his tools and if they are a Festool he is just a crap woodworker"

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Mort

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2015, 08:21 PM »
Why should we? We don't wanna.

Why don't you Australians start driving on the correct side of the road like the rest of the world?

Because you don't wanna.

The rest of the world doesn't like it when the US tries to tell them what to do, but we like it even less when the rest of the world tries to tell us what to do. Its our nature.

Besides, nobody uses "chains." First I've ever heard of it.
I hate signatures.

Offline bkharman

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2015, 08:30 PM »
I agree with Steve. I use metric all the time in my shop. I use metric with my kids (they teach in metric at their school as they know it is easier to learn that way). I try to post in metric on this forum. The only things I tend to stick with are Deg Fahrenheit and miles instead of kilometers.

I also agree with Mort... Most Americans won't be bothered with it... I was very pleasantly surprised when my sons school told us they teach in metric then teach imperial.

(Smile)

Cheers. Bryan.
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline Untidy Shop

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2015, 08:32 PM »

Stop stirring the yanky imperialists Steve.  [smile]

@sicd_steve
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Online Birdhunter

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2015, 08:32 PM »
Not a good idea. Can you imaging the idiots who would see a sign for 120KPH and be flooring the gas pedal?
Birdhunter

Offline sicd_steve

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2015, 08:39 PM »
Lol.....that got you all going! I knew it would stir the pot
"An average woodworker blames his tools and if they are a Festool he is just a crap woodworker"

Offline Mort

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2015, 08:55 PM »
Notice how us Yanks never try to get everyone else to use miles and feet and Fahrenheit?

By the way, you're welcome for the internet :-)
I hate signatures.

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2015, 09:16 PM »
Map of the countries in the world that do not use metric. Hmm...

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Offline waho6o9

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2015, 09:20 PM »
 Maybe they have a learning deficiency.


 

Offline Rip Van Winkle

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2015, 09:23 PM »
Having a convoluted measuring system is all about being a world power.

The French had a convoluted measuring system. They switched to metric. The British overtook them as the world power.

The British had a convoluted measuring system, and monetary system. They switched to a metric system and are no longer the world power.

As soon as the USA witches to metric we'll be overtaken as the world power by Liberia or Myanmar.  [unsure]

Offline Untidy Shop

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2015, 09:31 PM »
Well now it all just got serious!  [eek] [smile]

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/03/politics/lincoln-chafee-metric-system-2016-election/index.html

"Let's be bold -- let's join the rest of the world and go metric," he said during his launch. He clarified during a question-and-answer session after that it would be a "symbolic integration" meant to show goodwill to the world.

Well perhaps not!
If it is symbolic, why bother!
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 09:38 PM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

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― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline sicd_steve

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2015, 09:43 PM »
 [big grin]Thanks to Shane for pointing this out.....very informative, and I see congress is pushing for the benefits for the US to go metrics I know this is all off topic from Festool but it shows that some guys aren't ready for metrics and complain to Festool why not imperial stickers put in..simply they are Germans and really designed for the European market. So don't expect them to speak English when they are German. 

Now Woodpeckers tools of which I love..... have done both simply because they want to capture the market outside the States and yes strange to know that there is other countries out there beyond USA and they don't have imperial as Shane has kindly pointed out.

Glad I don't have to ask Woodpeckers for metric stickers..lol

Keep them opinions rolling in.
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Offline Slartibartfass

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2015, 09:44 PM »
How about we just lock this thread as it serves no purpose to dish on each other....

I'm originally from Europe and immigrated to the U.S. a long time ago and now think in the imperial system without a problem...

To everyone it's own....

Offline sicd_steve

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2015, 09:46 PM »
Hey Mort yes mate thanks for the internet I love it .....like you can thank an Aussie inventor for WiFi as we didn't need cords for our internet they are so cumbersome and so yesterday......lol
"An average woodworker blames his tools and if they are a Festool he is just a crap woodworker"

Offline sicd_steve

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2015, 09:49 PM »
Hey Slartibartfass I disagree we should be sending a petition on benefits of metrics from woodworkers to US congress to help make their decisions. It's not a slagging match it's just getting peoples options on a measurement subject which affects people buying Festal products.
"An average woodworker blames his tools and if they are a Festool he is just a crap woodworker"

Offline sicd_steve

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2015, 09:52 PM »
oppsss or FESTOOL tools..... [eek] Major typo! may God strike me down I spelt FESTOOL wrong
"An average woodworker blames his tools and if they are a Festool he is just a crap woodworker"

Offline Untidy Shop

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2015, 09:54 PM »
Notice how us Yanks never try to get everyone else to use miles and feet and Fahrenheit?

By the way, you're welcome for the internet :-)

And @Mort,  where were the WIFi connections your using invented? Guess?  [big grin] LOL  [smile]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_O%27Sullivan_(engineer)
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline sicd_steve

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2015, 09:54 PM »
and for now I am having a cup of tea and going out to the workshop and spending the weekend dominion non imperial style..lol\\

See you guys later remembers NO IMPERIAL STICKERS on FESTOOL campaign....keep it real!
"An average woodworker blames his tools and if they are a Festool he is just a crap woodworker"

Offline Slartibartfass

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2015, 09:55 PM »
Notice how us Yanks never try to get everyone else to use miles and feet and Fahrenheit?

By the way, you're welcome for the internet :-)

And @Mort,  where were the WIFi connections your using invented? Guess?  [big grin] LOL  [smile]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_O%27Sullivan_(engineer)

+1 and thanks for the invention.... Would be a hassle to drag the iPad with a cable around....

Offline sicd_steve

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2015, 10:00 PM »
ahhhh MORT what I meant to say was "leads/cords" are so IMPERIAL......WIFI is soo METRIC!! [big grin]
"An average woodworker blames his tools and if they are a Festool he is just a crap woodworker"

Offline Mort

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2015, 10:09 PM »
You guys are awesome. Sometimes people don't get my humor.

Seems if I remember my history classes correctly, Germany lost two very important wars. So why should we use their measuring systems? I think it's in the Marshall Plan that Germany makes power tools in inches.
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Offline Kev

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2015, 10:58 PM »
To many it'll be obvious that I'm an advocate for metric ... but I'll join in drawing the line (no longer than 250mm) on common saying conversions. Thinks I would want to change:

Pound of flesh
Give and inch and he takes a mile
Foot long hot dog
She's miles away

...


C'mon  [wink] [big grin]

Offline sae

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2015, 11:03 PM »
We should just adopt shilling, pounds, and pence. And stone and hundredweight while we're at it.

Get all the stupidity in one place.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2015, 11:14 PM »
Please continue to keep this friendly.

Please be sure the humor is humor.

And please drop the political content entirely.

Thanks,

     Seth

Offline sicd_steve

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2015, 11:14 PM »
Hey MORT we get your humour man! You'd make a good Aussie we always laugh at ourselves and a mans worth in Aussie land is how much we bag each other and come out laughing!
Consider yourself and honourary Aussie! Vested in me by the powers of Bulls**t ✌
"An average woodworker blames his tools and if they are a Festool he is just a crap woodworker"

Offline Steve Rowe

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2015, 11:39 PM »
and for now I am having a cup of tea and going out to the workshop and spending the weekend dominion non imperial style..lol\\

See you guys later remembers NO IMPERIAL STICKERS on FESTOOL campaign....keep it real!

Does anyone else see the irony of having a cup of tea in this thread? ;)

Offline Mort

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2015, 11:41 PM »
Sweet! Do I have to spell honorary with a "u?" The autocorrect on my iPhone (invented in America) wouldn't like it.
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Offline RL

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2015, 12:22 AM »
Sweet! Do I have to spell honorary with a "u?" The autocorrect on my iPhone (invented in America) wouldn't like it.

No, honorary is the same everywhere. "Honourary" doesn't exist in Britain, Canada or anywhere else. The same goes for humourous etc. Also incorrect.


Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2015, 12:35 AM »


Does anyone else see the irony of having a cup of tea in this thread? ;)

No. It is 8 oz. or 236.588 ml. Not a cup.  ::)  [tongue]

Seth

Offline Holmz

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2015, 12:52 AM »


Does anyone else see the irony of having a cup of tea in this thread? ;)

No. It is 8 oz. or 236.588 ml. Not a cup.  ::)  [tongue]

Seth

hmmm... [clears throat]
Most teacups are 4 to 6 oz.

There is 5-oz TeaCup-125 and the 6-oz TeaCup-150.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2015, 01:02 AM »


Does anyone else see the irony of having a cup of tea in this thread? ;)

No. It is 8 oz. or 236.588 ml. Not a cup.  ::)  [tongue]

Seth

hmmm... [clears throat]
Most teacups are 4 to 6 oz.

There is 5-oz TeaCup-125 and the 6-oz TeaCup-150.

Aaah, yes, teacup not measuring cup.  [doh]

But if we are talking tea cups of varying sizes , might as well throw in coffee cups too.  [wink] At US coffee shops 16 oz. , 20 oz. , and 24 oz. are common.  [big grin]


Seth

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Untidy Shop

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2015, 01:04 AM »


Does anyone else see the irony of having a cup of tea in this thread? ;)

No. It is 8 oz. or 236.588 ml. Not a cup.  ::)  [tongue]

Seth

hmmm... [clears throat]
Most teacups are 4 to 6 oz.

There is 5-oz TeaCup-125 and the 6-oz TeaCup-150.

Well actually you are both correct.  There is a U.S. Cup and an UK Cup. 
Now we have something else to discuss/debate; whose cup is more accurate, for the Cups now runneth over!? [eek]  [smile]

http://www.traditionaloven.com/culinary-arts/volume/convert-cup-uk-to-cup-us.html

@SRSemenza @Holmz
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 01:07 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Mr Heavy

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2015, 01:08 AM »
I've got to get back to my boat building project, It's starting to get rather cloudy so time may be short.

I DEMAND a saw scale marked in milicubits, well, actually centicubits as milicubits aren't visible with the naked eye and...

The tracksaw  kerf needs to be relabelled as Cbt/150 too as I'm cutting my gopherwood a little too short which means that when I eventually pitch it with pitch within and pitch it with pitch without, I'll need more pitch than I pitched for at the auction.

What's the sheckel price per cubic cubit in your local yard, btw? Is it cheaper Adzed or do you get it gophered all round to save time?

Oops got to go - the camels are threatening the giraffes again and the badgers are fretting..
Sys4 with cheese sandwich, a small pork pie with Tabasco sauce, a nice bottle of dry, vintage Prosecco and three reusable ice packs. Olives with pimento and a capon, roast in Dijon mustard. Several slices of fresh pineapple, a scale model of the Eiffel tower made from noodles, black forest gateau and a gingham table cloth for the MFT-3. A block of Parmesan and a Stanley 2" chisel for grating.
Sys3 with a half bottle of La Fée Absinthe, a spoon and vodka-soaked mint with Rothenberger blow-torch.
125 year old balsamic vinegar in spray bottle.
Ibuprofen and a pair of handcuffs. 2 loaves, 5 (very) small fishes, some bread, broken. A goblet of blood-red wine, a hammer... nails

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2015, 01:12 AM »

Well actually you are both correct.  There is a U.S. Cup and an UK Cup. 
Now we have something else to discuss/debate; whose cup is more accurate, for the Cups now runneth over!? [eek]  [smile]



In which case you probably should have used a pint.  [scared]

We all might need pint before this is done  [blink]

Seth

Offline Mort

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2015, 01:16 AM »



But if we are talking tea cups of varying sizes , might as well throw in coffee cups too.  [wink] At US coffee shops 16 oz. , 20 oz. , and 24 oz. are common.  [big grin]


Seth

Remember, this is 'Murica. It's "Tall," "Grande," and "Venti."
I hate signatures.

Offline Kev

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2015, 01:56 AM »
Is there any irony in the fact that of all the country names on the planet, America is the closest to having the word Metric spelt within it?

aMETRICa

Hmmm
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 03:39 AM by Kev »

Offline Kev

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2015, 02:00 AM »
I must admit I've always preferred MPG, not litres per 100km. The paradigm shifted from a big number being good to a small number being good [blink]

Offline Alex

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2015, 02:26 AM »
How about coffee cups? They are more my cup of tea.

Offline charley1968

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2015, 05:12 AM »
How about coffee-shops to discuss this further..?
Just for today..

Offline Holmz

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2015, 05:39 AM »

...
At US coffee shops 16 oz. , 20 oz. , and 24 oz. are common.  [big grin]


Seth

Seth- Starbucks is now a worldwide phenomenon these days.

However the Australian coffee is about as good as it gets.

If I get a tripple shot latte in the kiddie cup (5 oz??) at Starbucks it is not bad.

The coffee is over roasted, so it is bitter and oily, but it is the same exact beans that my local roaster uses... Only the local felow is a craftsman, so he takes pride in doing it perfect...

Offline charley1968

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2015, 05:45 AM »
..snigger..
Just for today..

Offline Daver

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2015, 06:04 AM »
What's the sheckel price per cubic cubit in your local yard, btw? Is it cheaper Adzed or do you get it gophered all round to save time?

Oops got to go - the camels are threatening the giraffes again and the badgers are fretting..

This brings to mind the age old query of how many pancakes it takes to shingle a dog's house. [poke]
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Offline Sparktrician

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2015, 09:12 AM »


Does anyone else see the irony of having a cup of tea in this thread? ;)

No. It is 8 oz. or 236.588 ml. Not a cup.  ::)  [tongue]

Seth

hmmm... [clears throat]
Most teacups are 4 to 6 oz.

There is 5-oz TeaCup-125 and the 6-oz TeaCup-150.

Well actually you are both correct.  There is a U.S. Cup and an UK Cup. 
Now we have something else to discuss/debate; whose cup is more accurate, for the Cups now runneth over!? [eek]  [smile]

http://www.traditionaloven.com/culinary-arts/volume/convert-cup-uk-to-cup-us.html

@SRSemenza @Holmz

And now, for some Texas humor...

There's also a T-cup and a P-cup.  What's the difference?  A T-cup is what you drink T out of, and a P-cup is what you drive to work... 

 [big grin]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline SittingElf

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2015, 09:46 AM »
Quote

And now, for some Texas humor...

There's also a T-cup and a P-cup.  What's the difference?  A T-cup is what you drink T out of, and a P-cup is what you drive to work... 

 [big grin]

Let us not forget A,B,C, and D cups! [tongue]

I tend towards the former, rather than the latter! [big grin]

Frank
Woodworking is 3% talent and 97% paying attention to the FOG! 

hammerfelderowners.com

Offline teocaf

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2015, 10:12 AM »
I thought a P-cup is what you have in your pickup when you are trying to drive across Texas without stopping...
By the way, it takes 12 hours to drive across the great Lone Star state.  When I lived in the ol' western town of El Paso, it was just as quick to drive to San Diego, CA across New Mexico and Arizona, as it was to get to east Dallas.

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2015, 10:25 AM »
Texas is bigger than France...


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Offline bkharman

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2015, 10:48 AM »

I thought a P-cup is what you have in your pickup when you are trying to drive across Texas without stopping...
By the way, it takes 12 hours to drive across the great Lone Star state.  When I lived in the ol' western town of El Paso, it was just as quick to drive to San Diego, CA across New Mexico and Arizona, as it was to get to east Dallas.

Since this thread has veered waaaaay off corse, this reminded me of that crazy lady the wore diapers and drove from FL to TX to kill someone!!

Ingenuity

People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline Mort

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #47 on: June 06, 2015, 10:51 AM »
She was an astronaut. I wonder if NASA uses metric or standard?
I hate signatures.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2015, 10:56 AM »
Starbucks is world wide? Who'da thunk it?  [tongue]    Just running with the cup vs cup vs tea vs coffee idea. I agree, over roasted.

I am curious though ......... in the US every gas station and just about every other business has coffee available. Even if there wasn't a Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts on every corner it would be pretty easy to get coffee almost anytime anywhere. How universal is that?  At least in countries where coffee drinking is prevalent.

Seth

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2015, 11:02 AM »
Starbucks is world wide? Who'da thunk it?  [tongue]    Just running with the cup vs cup vs tea vs coffee idea. I agree, over roasted.

I am curious though ......... in the US every gas station and just about every other business has coffee available. Even if there wasn't a Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts on every corner it would be pretty easy to get coffee almost anytime anywhere. How universal is that?  At least in countries where coffee drinking is prevalent.

Seth

Pretty sure the stuff you guys over there drink isn't coffee [huh] about the only place I had a half drinkable coffee was in NY, with the emphasis on half [wink]

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #50 on: June 06, 2015, 11:12 AM »


Pretty sure the stuff you guys over there drink isn't coffee [huh] about the only place I had a half drinkable coffee was in NY, with the emphasis on half [wink]

Yeah, a lot of it is pretty bad.  [sad]

Seth

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1939
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #51 on: June 06, 2015, 11:43 AM »
I totally agree that the coffee at Starbucks is too acidic and just doesn't taste good. I am lucky that within 5 miles of me (8 clicks to keep this thread related) there are three chaps (not Chavs) that have excellent coffee. I usually go for espresso when it is decent, which is also hard to find sometimes.

We now return you to the nonsensical, global banter which is Metric vs. Imperial.

Cheers. Bryan.
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline charley1968

  • Posts: 488
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #52 on: June 06, 2015, 12:03 PM »
Wasn't the Challenger disaster due to some f...-up between metric and imperial. Or was it some mars-lander?
Just for today..

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3343
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #53 on: June 06, 2015, 12:05 PM »
Quote

And now, for some Texas humor...

There's also a T-cup and a P-cup.  What's the difference?  A T-cup is what you drink T out of, and a P-cup is what you drive to work... 

 [big grin]

Let us not forget A,B,C, and D cups! [tongue]

I tend towards the former, rather than the latter! [big grin]

Frank

Then let's put me right in the middle, please.   [tongue]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1939
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #54 on: June 06, 2015, 12:14 PM »
This is the first thing that came to mind during this discussion.



People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline Davej

  • Posts: 630
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #55 on: June 06, 2015, 12:20 PM »
Quote

And now, for some Texas humor...

There's also a T-cup and a P-cup.  What's the difference?  A T-cup is what you drink T out of, and a P-cup is what you drive to work... 

 [big grin]

Let us not forget A,B,C, and D cups! [tongue]

I tend towards the former, rather than the latter! [big grin]

Frank

Then let's put me right in the middle, please.   [tongue]


In the middle ! Would that be a B+ or a C-    [tongue]
I dont mind growing old but i refuse to grow up

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1913
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #56 on: June 06, 2015, 12:33 PM »
[big grin]Thanks to Shane for pointing this out.....very informative, and I see congress is pushing for the benefits for the US to go metrics I know this is all off topic from Festool but it shows that some guys aren't ready for metrics and complain to Festool why not imperial stickers put in..simply they are Germans and really designed for the European market. So don't expect them to speak English when they are German.

Well, when they are trying to make a buck (or is that a euro) in the US it helps to speak the language (or use the measuring system) of that market. I'm in the US, we use inches, we ask for tools to use inches, not sure why this surprises anyone. I'm not going to Germany and buying Festools there.
+1

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #57 on: June 06, 2015, 01:01 PM »
[big grin]Thanks to Shane for pointing this out.....very informative, and I see congress is pushing for the benefits for the US to go metrics I know this is all off topic from Festool but it shows that some guys aren't ready for metrics and complain to Festool why not imperial stickers put in..simply they are Germans and really designed for the European market. So don't expect them to speak English when they are German.

Well, when they are trying to make a buck (or is that a euro) in the US it helps to speak the language (or use the measuring system) of that market. I'm in the US, we use inches, we ask for tools to use inches, not sure why this surprises anyone. I'm not going to Germany and buying Festools there.

You really aren't being forced to buy Festool or any other metric calibrated tool that happens to find it's way into your parts of North America.

To be perfectly frank (no, not Frank), I'm happy with either unit of measure and I don't really care if the instruction manuals are in German or English.

I can understand that some may be challenged by something that's new to them and in this case the metric system being new to some US FOG members, but you are aware that the tools with calibrations on them are metric in origin and still metric if not locally converted.

That's life on planet earth [big grin]

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1913
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2015, 01:13 PM »
[big grin]Thanks to Shane for pointing this out.....very informative, and I see congress is pushing for the benefits for the US to go metrics I know this is all off topic from Festool but it shows that some guys aren't ready for metrics and complain to Festool why not imperial stickers put in..simply they are Germans and really designed for the European market. So don't expect them to speak English when they are German.

Well, when they are trying to make a buck (or is that a euro) in the US it helps to speak the language (or use the measuring system) of that market. I'm in the US, we use inches, we ask for tools to use inches, not sure why this surprises anyone. I'm not going to Germany and buying Festools there.

You really aren't being forced to buy Festool or any other metric calibrated tool that happens to find it's way into your parts of North America.

To be perfectly frank (no, not Frank), I'm happy with either unit of measure and I don't really care if the instruction manuals are in German or English.

I can understand that some may be challenged by something that's new to them and in this case the metric system being new to some US FOG members, but you are aware that the tools with calibrations on them are metric in origin and still metric if not locally converted.

That's life on planet earth [big grin]

No one said we are forced to buy Festools, just like no one forced them to sell in the US. They chose to sell here and things here mostly work in feet and inches so it's not hard to understand that many folks here want tools with markings in inches. Not sure why folks in other places get their buns in a knot over it.
+1

Offline DrD

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2015, 01:43 PM »
Been reading this for a couple of days now.  It would appear that there are/were 2 simultaneous threads about nearly the same thing - USA going metric and Arrogance of Festool.  I find these both somewhat amusing and a little alarming.  Take Texas for example - the 12th largest economy in the world, and that is only 1 of 50 sovereign States within the USA.  Granted Germany is probably still the 4th largest economy - bolstered greatly by USA sales of Mercedes Benz, VW & all that they own, BMW, and others including Festool, but I digress.  The great majority of teaching and technical publications emanating from the USA are done using imperial measurements.  Most USA citizens are not fluent in metric, most USA business are conducted using Imperial measurements.  Since there is a great pool of NAINA Festool products, one could surmise that Festool spends a good deal of resources in making "changes" in their products to be compatible and compliant with USA requirements.  Why then is it too much to ask for what is sold here to be marked in Imperial measurements?  Why should we, spending our money, bend to a "foreign" system, and some possible "arrogance"?  My BMW's and Infinity's - both made in native metric &/or Shakkan-ho metrics - come to the USA with Imperial metrics. 

Just my $0.02 (not Euros - I don't even have a Euro symbol on my Japanese-based computer keyboard).
Dr.D

Offline Alex

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #60 on: June 06, 2015, 02:17 PM »

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Offline vkumar

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #61 on: June 06, 2015, 03:00 PM »
Wasn't the Challenger disaster due to some f...-up between metric and imperial. Or was it some mars-lander?
It was the Mars orbiter. It was JPL /NASA designing in metric  units and Lockeheed Martin designing in English units. They lost a $125 million orbiter. This is very vivid in my mind as I was a founder of an engineering startup efunda that was developing a units calculator called unitsiq .
Vijay Kumar
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Offline Kev

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2015, 03:17 PM »
Been reading this for a couple of days now.  It would appear that there are/were 2 simultaneous threads about nearly the same thing - USA going metric and Arrogance of Festool.  I find these both somewhat amusing and a little alarming.  Take Texas for example - the 12th largest economy in the world, and that is only 1 of 50 sovereign States within the USA.  Granted Germany is probably still the 4th largest economy - bolstered greatly by USA sales of Mercedes Benz, VW & all that they own, BMW, and others including Festool, but I digress.  The great majority of teaching and technical publications emanating from the USA are done using imperial measurements.  Most USA citizens are not fluent in metric, most USA business are conducted using Imperial measurements.  Since there is a great pool of NAINA Festool products, one could surmise that Festool spends a good deal of resources in making "changes" in their products to be compatible and compliant with USA requirements.  Why then is it too much to ask for what is sold here to be marked in Imperial measurements?  Why should we, spending our money, bend to a "foreign" system, and some possible "arrogance"?  My BMW's and Infinity's - both made in native metric &/or Shakkan-ho metrics - come to the USA with Imperial metrics. 

Just my $0.02 (not Euros - I don't even have a Euro symbol on my Japanese-based computer keyboard).

The next couple of decades are going to be interesting to watch as the US digests and adjusts to it's changing position in the global economy.

Too much to ask? ... maybe not. Pay extra for it? I can here the complaints already!!

In the mean time I'll have a quick chat with the other seven billion people on the planet and see if they wouldn't mind terribly switching back to inches ... yes, it's harder and inconvenient and they'll have to change all of their stuff, but it's for a very good cause [wink] I'll chip in with switching everything to 110V for good measure. After all, what was the rest of the planet thinking???

Offline SittingElf

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #63 on: June 06, 2015, 03:24 PM »
I totally disagree with the idea that the USA, being the megapower that we are, arrogantly continue to stay on the imperial system, while the rest of the world has STANDARDIZED on the metric system....save two other countries of no import.

We have already missed THREE supposed deadlines for converting our measurement system to metric. It's time to standardize and synchronize with the REST of the world! 

Furthermore, our failure to do so as was previously mandated, is a captulation, and an absolute failure of our education system that has aggressively resisted having to teach an entirely new system of measure.  Other countries have done so...and admittedly with some diffculty, but a "10" system is far more easy once learned.

I personally am in favor of a complete conversion in the USA...by law if necessary, and the companies that have to retool and re-design their products can just suck it up!  Time to join the rest of the world! [mad]

Cheers,
Frank
Woodworking is 3% talent and 97% paying attention to the FOG! 

hammerfelderowners.com

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #64 on: June 06, 2015, 03:35 PM »
I totally disagree with the idea that the USA, being the megapower that we are, arrogantly continue to stay on the imperial system, while the rest of the world has STANDARDIZED on the metric system....save two other countries of no import.

We have already missed THREE supposed deadlines for converting our measurement system to metric. It's time to standardize and synchronize with the REST of the world! 

Furthermore, our failure to do so as was previously mandated, is a captulation, and an absolute failure of our education system that has aggressively resisted having to teach an entirely new system of measure.  Other countries have done so...and admittedly with some diffculty, but a "10" system is far more easy once learned.

I personally am in favor of a complete conversion in the USA...by law if necessary, and the companies that have to retool and re-design their products can just suck it up!  Time to join the rest of the world! [mad]

Cheers,
Frank

Where's that "like" button when you want one??

Seth ...

Peter ...

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1913
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #65 on: June 06, 2015, 04:13 PM »
I totally disagree with the idea that the USA, being the megapower that we are, arrogantly continue to stay on the imperial system, while the rest of the world has STANDARDIZED on the metric system....save two other countries of no import.

We have already missed THREE supposed deadlines for converting our measurement system to metric. It's time to standardize and synchronize with the REST of the world! 

Furthermore, our failure to do so as was previously mandated, is a captulation, and an absolute failure of our education system that has aggressively resisted having to teach an entirely new system of measure.  Other countries have done so...and admittedly with some diffculty, but a "10" system is far more easy once learned.

I personally am in favor of a complete conversion in the USA...by law if necessary, and the companies that have to retool and re-design their products can just suck it up!  Time to join the rest of the world! [mad]

Cheers,
Frank

I'll choose liberty in this case. But FTR, I have nothing against metric and it is taught in the schools here, has been since the 70s at least. But then you go take a driving test and learn all the laws that say stuff like needing to stop so many feet from an intersection, or drive a particular MPH in certain zones, etc. then you go to add something to your house and discover all the codes are in inches and feet. Add a new fence here and the height limit is 6' without a variance, unless it's set back 10' from the property line. And the new shed must be no larger than 120 sqft, no higher than 7' and no roof overhang more than 6". And that new waste pipe needs to be about 3' deep, with a certain diameter in inches depending on the connections. And the list goes on. Govt can't even change itself in this regards and lest we forget, the govt is (or should be) a reflection of the people. Hence this topic ultimately becomes a political discussion outside the bounds of this forum.
+1

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #66 on: June 06, 2015, 05:08 PM »
(Attachment Link)

But that (the Moon landing) was in 1969. A lot has happened since. In 1969 Australia was imperial too, just on the verge of going metric with measurement.

Interesting that this thread also started yesterday -
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/switching-to-metric/msg400056/#msg400056
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 05:15 PM by Untidy Shop »
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Offline jacko9

  • Posts: 2345
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #67 on: June 06, 2015, 05:22 PM »
It should be noted that over the past 30 years the United States has been off-shoring most of their manufacturing sector and the installed base of machinery in the USA is not being replaced or updated so converting to metric at factories that are being closed (or downsized) just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Offline Mr Heavy

  • Posts: 100
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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #68 on: June 06, 2015, 05:29 PM »
Personally `i'm happy using both systems, each for particular purposes.

Big measurements - imperial. I have no idea how far the sun is in Km. I don't care. The same with distances between cities, and road speed.


Roughing out human-scale stuff is best in inches - he's about five eleven makes much more immediate sense - to me - than spitting out a metric equivalent. Ditto pints and gallons - proper ones, that is, based on 20 Floz, not the cheapskate colonial 16oz knock-offs.

Where would the porn industry  be in metric? Totally stuffed, that's where.

"Oh!" she gasped, aroused in spite of herself at the sight of his 210 point 6 throbbing millimetres. "I need to lie down, my poor 30 point 4-8 centimetres are killing me!." His fingers 25 point 4 millimetred toward her...
He paused to switch the stereo on, and the warm tones of
1.609344 kilometres Davis's ethereal trumpet washed over her. "That jazz is so cool," she murmured.
"Celcius?" he asked, intrigued..

Human scale stuff in imperial, my choice. it works really well UNTIL improper fractions come in, and that's when we know we're using the wrong scales. Half and quarter inches are perfectly sensible. When you start with 23/64" and suchlike you're using the wrong scale, full stop.

Imperial measurements are based on body parts and the ergonomic derivations thereof - strides, feet, thumb joints, and work fine in that arena. I'm comfortable with chains, furlongs, rods, fathoms, hundredweight but I wouldn't dream of using them in real parlance other than ironically. They're nuts, frankly (though I still think in acres rather than hectares, for example.) and it's obvious that ten cricket pitches fit along the side of a square acre, which measures a furlong, a comfortable plough pull for one horse before turning. These are all pre-industrial revolution notions for people dealing with people - NOT people dealing with science, and that's the big difference. There's nothing wrong with human scaled thinking but you have to mix base 2, base 8, 12, 16, 20, 22, 28, 220, 1764 and God know how many others I haven't immediately thought of. I was perfectly happy with pounds, shillings, crowns, florins, bobs, tanners and thruppences but I'm also happy with decimal currency. It's not difficult. Look at how me measure time - bases 12, 7, 60. No-one bats an eyelid. There's logic in it, angles and such - thank you the Babylonians - and people rarely even think about what's going on there so it's clearly not a problem to compute in different bases.

Scientific measurements I'm perfectly happy in S.I. units because everything relates to everything else - except to human visualization. A cubic metre of water's mass relates to force, relates to temperature, relates to ... everything else. Going back to ergs and Amstrongs and GKWE.

Imperial measurements have some poetic beauty that would be difficult to see in any metric system, but for construction, technology, science, the metric system wins hands down. They're different. The stupidity all comes about from thinking they're just alternative translations. They're not. They exist in different cultural frameworks, neither better than the other but unfortunately, here in the U.K. they've legislated in one at the expense of the other. Road signs are still in miles, and miles per hour and news reports give distances in Km, and nobody knows what it actually means - like buying fuel in litres and thinking in terms of MPG and how many pints make you fall over. It's the forced imposition by idiot politicians assuming that the issue is an either/or one, missing the point entirely that they're not actually alternatives, they are parallel systems with different strengths.


addendum

Two things that should carry a sentence of life imprisonment.
1) Using cm as a unit of measurement. They're a failure that schoolteachers impose on kids and they're used purely as an attempt to replace the outlawed, human-scaled foot which the metric system was a so much "better" replacement than - except the hoi poloi couldn't visualize metric measurements, so needed a manageable unit to cope with the transition.

2) I'll get back on this later

« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 05:47 PM by Mr Heavy »
Sys4 with cheese sandwich, a small pork pie with Tabasco sauce, a nice bottle of dry, vintage Prosecco and three reusable ice packs. Olives with pimento and a capon, roast in Dijon mustard. Several slices of fresh pineapple, a scale model of the Eiffel tower made from noodles, black forest gateau and a gingham table cloth for the MFT-3. A block of Parmesan and a Stanley 2" chisel for grating.
Sys3 with a half bottle of La Fée Absinthe, a spoon and vodka-soaked mint with Rothenberger blow-torch.
125 year old balsamic vinegar in spray bottle.
Ibuprofen and a pair of handcuffs. 2 loaves, 5 (very) small fishes, some bread, broken. A goblet of blood-red wine, a hammer... nails

Offline fuzzy logic

  • Posts: 336
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #69 on: June 06, 2015, 06:07 PM »
It's about time that Festool offered all clocks / watches in metric. 

Richard (UK)
(edit:  missed a word out).
(2nd edit:  removed unnecessary words  [embarassed] ).

« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 06:18 PM by fuzzy logic »
Decent people do the right thing - always?

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3980
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #70 on: June 06, 2015, 06:16 PM »
The US did have a law about going metric in the early 70's.
It did not last long, when people acted like it was the spawn of all things evil, it was repealed.

Online Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1977
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #71 on: June 06, 2015, 06:56 PM »
One of our friends had an electrician try to convince her that a 1/3 HP motor was more powerful than a 1/2 HP motor because, obviously, a 3 is bigger than a 2.

I'd bet that a tiny fraction of government school grads can do fractions.

Maybe, metric is better. I've switched.
Birdhunter

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5475
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #72 on: June 06, 2015, 07:17 PM »
missing the point entirely that they're not actually alternatives, they are parallel systems with different strengths.

They actually really are alternatives. Where one system is the evolution of the other.

There is just as much strength in imperial as the horse carriage is strong against a car.  Sure, the horse carriage is romantic, but for your daily business you're really better off with the latter.

If you simply stick to measuring you will not really see a difference between metric and imperial. But once you start doing calculations with those measurements, you will understand the benefit of metric.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1913
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #73 on: June 06, 2015, 07:45 PM »
missing the point entirely that they're not actually alternatives, they are parallel systems with different strengths.

They actually really are alternatives. Where one system is the evolution of the other.

There is just as much strength in imperial as the horse carriage is strong against a car.  Sure, the horse carriage is romantic, but for your daily business you're really better off with the latter.

If you simply stick to measuring you will not really see a difference between metric and imperial. But once you start doing calculations with those measurements, you will understand the benefit of metric.

I do calcs in decimel inches just fine.
+1

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5475
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #74 on: June 06, 2015, 08:17 PM »
I do calcs in decimel inches just fine.

At some point you'll have to convert to another unit, like foot, yard or mile.

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #75 on: June 06, 2015, 08:30 PM »
I do calcs in decimel inches just fine.

At some point you'll have to convert to another unit, like foot, yard or mile.

Really? When?  [tongue]

Mixing units is a major no-no, even with the metric system. Architects do it with feet and inches, but that is one of the few exceptions because it has become so commonplace.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1913
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #76 on: June 06, 2015, 10:34 PM »
I do calcs in decimel inches just fine.

At some point you'll have to convert to another unit, like foot, yard or mile.

In my work in commercial printing I don't have that need much, but if I did so what? Worse yet for me would be constantly needing to convert between metric and imperial, which is what would happen if I tried to go metric. While the rest of the world may be using metric my work doesn't. Clients order product in inches, vendors sell product mostly in imperial. In my woodworking/remodeling endeavors I go to Home Depot and all the tapes and rulers are in inches, product dimensions are in inches or feet, building codes are in imperial. It is what it is, working in metric makes it harder for me to interract in the world around me. Doesn't matter what is better per se, better is what works easiest in my given situation. If I were building furniture in my closed silo I'd consider making the switch in that environment but that isn't me, at least not yet.

BTW, technically the US doesn't use Imperial, it's different than the actual "U.S. customary units" but is easier to type and gets the point across.
+1

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #77 on: June 07, 2015, 01:02 AM »
Wouldn't it be funny if the US mandated EVERYTHING to be in their old units of measure ... I can just see the proud Mercedes owner driving down the road with a "12.7 Pint V8" bad on it [big grin]

... yeh, I know - you'd want the displacement converted to cubic inches, but that no fun.

Offline jacko9

  • Posts: 2345
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #78 on: June 07, 2015, 01:43 AM »
Wouldn't it be nice if Europe had a standard for plumbing?  I mean every where you go the toilets and showers have different mechanisms  [wink]

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3604
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #79 on: June 07, 2015, 02:31 AM »

I do calcs in decimel inches just fine.

[thumbs up] Same here, coming from an engineering background, the manufacturing world revolves around decimal numbers, (except for plant & office layout). Take a look at your machine tools like lathes, milling machines and surface grinders. The feed wheels are all in .001" or in .0005" graduations, not mm and certainly not 1/64 ths.

So, if I have to work in a fraction like 19/64", I just convert it to .2969" and move forward. I can add or subtract easily and if I need to place it back into imperial fractions because I'm using a tape measure, I can do that also. Easy Peasy

This stainless scale works sweet...used in the majority of engineering design firms. 1/32" & 1/64" markings on the front, .10" & .100" on the back, fully flexible and can be bent around a corner.

222801-0

222803-1

222805-2

Offline aas

  • Posts: 123
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #80 on: June 07, 2015, 03:00 AM »
Strangest thing in Europe is buying car/van tyres... still width in mm, height as a percentage and diameter in inches!

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #81 on: June 07, 2015, 03:41 AM »
Strangest thing in Europe is buying car/van tyres... still width in mm, height as a percentage and diameter in inches!

That goes a bit further than Europe!!!

... and don't start me on bicycle wheels ...

Offline aas

  • Posts: 123
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #82 on: June 07, 2015, 03:58 AM »
Strangest thing in Europe is buying car/van tyres... still width in mm, height as a percentage and diameter in inches!

That goes a bit further than Europe!!!

... and don't start me on bicycle wheels ...

...and TV, laptop, phone screens!

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5475
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #83 on: June 07, 2015, 04:00 AM »
I do calcs in decimel inches just fine.

At some point you'll have to convert to another unit, like foot, yard or mile.

Really? When?  [tongue]

Mixing units is a major no-no, even with the metric system. Architects do it with feet and inches, but that is one of the few exceptions because it has become so commonplace.

You do it ALL the time. When I mention a 2x4, you know I'm talking about a piece of wood, measured in inches, while an 8x4 is a sheet measured in feet. And then when you cut the sheet to pieces you use your ruler with inches again. The different units constantly cross each other.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #84 on: June 07, 2015, 04:22 AM »

Alex I generally agree with your last point, but audiences are a key factor here. Mention 4x8, 8x4 to someone who works/sells wood and they know it is a wood, plaster or cement based sheet product, even in a metric country where it is 2400mm x1200mm.

However mention 8x4 to a photographer and they may know it is a 8X4 inch sheet of photographic paper or plate film.

@Alex
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 04:25 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 434
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #85 on: June 07, 2015, 05:40 AM »
I live  in northern Ireland  and use both  imperial and metric. Tape has both.
If I am on the saw  cutting long lengths   where  stops  are not possible  I'll check  to be sure  imperial and metric match up.
Much more to difficult to make a mistake  I find.

But a lot of  widths  and heights  I'll always refer   to in feet. Because  its easier  said  and a lot of the people I deal with  can envisage the  distance   I'm referring too  more easily.

« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 05:46 AM by Lbob131 »

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5475
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #86 on: June 07, 2015, 05:52 AM »

Alex I generally agree with your last point, but audiences are a key factor here. Mention 4x8, 8x4 to someone who works/sells wood and they know it is a wood, plaster or cement based sheet product, even in a metric country where it is 2400mm x1200mm.

However mention 8x4 to a photographer and they may know it is a 8X4 inch sheet of photographic paper or plate film.

I am talking in general here, please don't go splitting it out how every individual's situation is different. My example is perfectly valid in Rick's case.

Just like @Paul G I understand using metric is not practical for you if you're the only one using it.

A conversion from one system to another is not something a country does overnight, it takes at least 2 generations. Your generation will not be the one to do it. But your kids or grand children will get better used to it because thanks to internet exposure, they will grow up with it.


Offline Euclid

  • Posts: 101
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #87 on: June 07, 2015, 05:53 AM »
For carpentry?  Shaku!

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #88 on: June 07, 2015, 06:07 AM »

Alex I generally agree with your last point, but audiences are a key factor here. Mention 4x8, 8x4 to someone who works/sells wood and they know it is a wood, plaster or cement based sheet product, even in a metric country where it is 2400mm x1200mm.

However mention 8x4 to a photographer and they may know it is a 8X4 inch sheet of photographic paper or plate film.

I am talking in general here, please don't go splitting it out how every individual's situation is different. My example is perfectly valid in Rick's case.

Just like @Paul G I understand using metric is not practical for you if you're the only one using it.

A conversion from one system to another is not something a country does overnight, it takes at least 2 generations. Your generation will not be the one to do it. But your kids or grand children will get better used to it because thanks to internet exposure, they will grow up with it.

Alex I regret you missed my point, and as to Australia, my generation was the one to do it. In 1970, when the introduction of Metric measurement was passed by legislation through the Australian Parliament, I was 20.  [eek]
-------
And despite the derogatory comments by some here on th FOG, but not you Alex, I am proud of the 30 years I spent in education teaching our young citizens the benifits and understandings of the metric system. But I do agree with those who state that MMs are more significant for woodworkers than CMs. But the foundations of the Metric system with regard to measurement of length are MMs, CMs, Metres and Kilometres.

I never emphasised Decimetres in the classroom; that was just too confusing. A bit like 2/32 being equal to 4/64th of an inch.  [big grin]

LOL

@Alex
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 07:31 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #89 on: June 07, 2015, 06:27 AM »

A bit like 2/32 being equal to 1/64th of an inch.  [big grin]

LOL

@Alex

... and you were teaching ... Was our treasurer in one of your classes [scared] [eek]

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #90 on: June 07, 2015, 06:39 AM »
Oh Kev, yes three glasses of wine, in my 60s, using metric most of my adult life, what other excuses do you want!   [smile] I have made the correction. And my error probably more than any other comment here emphasis how ridiculous the Imperial system is (particularly after dinner on a Sunday night!). [eek]

And no, I did not teach the cigar smoker.  [eek] My most troublesome student in 30 years now drives, and can certainly afford, a Porshe 911.  [eek] [big grin]

 @Kev

Edit. I could have left the fractions as they were, just to further make the point!  [big grin]
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 07:27 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

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Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3980
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #91 on: June 07, 2015, 06:54 AM »
... A bit like 2/32 being equal to 4/64th of an inch.  [big grin]
...

Well you divide 32 by 2, and then slide the decimal point over... and you get 1.6-mm.
Which it is! [eek]

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #92 on: June 07, 2015, 07:22 AM »
... A bit like 2/32 being equal to 4/64th of an inch.  [big grin]
...

Well you divide 32 by 2, and then slide the decimal point over... and you get 1.6-mm.
Which it is! [eek]

"Isn't Maths Fun!"  [big grin]

@Holmz  @Kev
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3343
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #93 on: June 07, 2015, 08:04 AM »
There's an interesting comment on the subject of converting to metric on CNN's web site today.  I noted one comment in specific: "The main resistance -- aside from everyday citizens -- came from the unions, who feared that a switch to an international system of measurement would make it easier for big corporations to ship jobs offshore."  Well, guess what happened in spite of union resistance!!!  DUH!!! 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Brent Taylor

  • Posts: 471
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #94 on: June 07, 2015, 08:21 AM »
I really think that the rest of the planet should bend to the will of the US on this matter, if not we will do as we always do.  Tanks please, but on a real note, I feel the reason we are trapped in this mire is we are bullheaded, lazy and to dumb to change, plus it would take an act of God to get it through our political system,  remember we have to be the world's police force,  so we don't have any time to think or use common sense.  Paranoia is a wonderful thing,  especially when it's real.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1913
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #95 on: June 07, 2015, 09:25 AM »

I do calcs in decimel inches just fine.

[thumbs up] Same here, coming from an engineering background, the manufacturing world revolves around decimal numbers, (except for plant & office layout). Take a look at your machine tools like lathes, milling machines and surface grinders. The feed wheels are all in .001" or in .0005" graduations, not mm and certainly not 1/64 ths.

So, if I have to work in a fraction like 19/64", I just convert it to .2969" and move forward. I can add or subtract easily and if I need to place it back into imperial fractions because I'm using a tape measure, I can do that also. Easy Peasy

This stainless scale works sweet...used in the majority of engineering design firms. 1/32" & 1/64" markings on the front, .10" & .100" on the back, fully flexible and can be bent around a corner.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)
Great ruler, used one many times.
+1

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1913
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #96 on: June 07, 2015, 09:27 AM »
I really think that the rest of the planet should bend to the will of the US on this matter, if not we will do as we always do.  Tanks please, but on a real note, I feel the reason we are trapped in this mire is we are bullheaded, lazy and to dumb to change, plus it would take an act of God to get it through our political system,  remember we have to be the world's police force,  so we don't have any time to think or use common sense.  Paranoia is a wonderful thing,  especially when it's real.

It's ironic to say we're too dumb to change because we successfully use a system deemed more difficult.
+1

Offline Mort

  • Posts: 353
  • World's Tallest Midget
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #97 on: June 07, 2015, 10:11 AM »
I find it disturbing that this thread has veered back on topic.
I hate signatures.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #98 on: June 07, 2015, 10:20 AM »
I really think that the rest of the planet should bend to the will of the US on this matter, if not we will do as we always do.  Tanks please, but on a real note, I feel the reason we are trapped in this mire is we are bullheaded, lazy and to dumb to change, plus it would take an act of God to get it through our political system,  remember we have to be the world's police force,  so we don't have any time to think or use common sense.  Paranoia is a wonderful thing,  especially when it's real.

It's ironic to say we're too dumb to change because we successfully use a system deemed more difficult.

"obstinate" is certainly a much better description than "lazy and too dumb" ... though "bull headed" was on the money! [big grin]

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1913
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #99 on: June 07, 2015, 11:25 AM »
I really think that the rest of the planet should bend to the will of the US on this matter, if not we will do as we always do.  Tanks please, but on a real note, I feel the reason we are trapped in this mire is we are bullheaded, lazy and to dumb to change, plus it would take an act of God to get it through our political system,  remember we have to be the world's police force,  so we don't have any time to think or use common sense.  Paranoia is a wonderful thing,  especially when it's real.

It's ironic to say we're too dumb to change because we successfully use a system deemed more difficult.

"obstinate" is certainly a much better description than "lazy and too dumb" ... though "bull headed" was on the money! [big grin]

It's more like too busy earning a living to worry about fixing something that works.
+1

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #100 on: June 07, 2015, 11:36 AM »

Alex I generally agree with your last point, but audiences are a key factor here. Mention 4x8, 8x4 to someone who works/sells wood and they know it is a wood, plaster or cement based sheet product, even in a metric country where it is 2400mm x1200mm.

However mention 8x4 to a photographer and they may know it is a 8X4 inch sheet of photographic paper or plate film.

I am talking in general here, please don't go splitting it out how every individual's situation is different. My example is perfectly valid in Rick's case.

Just like @Paul G I understand using metric is not practical for you if you're the only one using it.

A conversion from one system to another is not something a country does overnight, it takes at least 2 generations. Your generation will not be the one to do it. But your kids or grand children will get better used to it because thanks to internet exposure, they will grow up with it.

Actually Alex, it's not valid. You are confusing a "Name" with a "Dimension". It may be called 4x8, but when working out dimensions it is typically inches. What makes it worse is Untidy's example of 2400x1200, because that one implies dimensions, but the actual size is not 2400x1200.

Yesterday there was a comment about how products would have to be redesigned for different units of measure. This is a major misconception, which is quite evident in the 2400x1200 example. You don't design something based on its units, and you don't change the design if you change units. The plywood is still the same size, but we/they put different numbers to it. The only exception to this non-conversion is with machine screws, where diameters and pitches differ between the two.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1913
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #101 on: June 07, 2015, 12:14 PM »
Actually Alex, it's not valid. You are confusing a "Name" with a "Dimension". It may be called 4x8, but when working out dimensions it is typically inches. What makes it worse is Untidy's example of 2400x1200, because that one implies dimensions, but the actual size is not 2400x1200.

Yesterday there was a comment about how products would have to be redesigned for different units of measure. This is a major misconception, which is quite evident in the 2400x1200 example. You don't design something based on its units, and you don't change the design if you change units. The plywood is still the same size, but we/they put different numbers to it. The only exception to this non-conversion is with machine screws, where diameters and pitches differ between the two.

Unfortunately there comes a point where the naming then becomes bizarre in order to be accurate. For example in flexographic printing we use print cylinder sizes based on 1/8 inch tooth gear increments. As customers order different sized labels we use different sized print cylinders to reduce waste material between labels. Point being is the cylinders are described by either their tooth count or their repeat size, ie a 80 tooth cylinder is a 10" repeat size, 82 tooth is 10.25", etc. Now if we convert to metric in name only and keep all our existing equipment as is, we now have to understand that each tooth gear increment is 3.175 mm and a 80 tooth cylinder has a 254mm repeat, an 82 tooth is 260.35, etc. Good luck with that.

In EU their presses are typically built with a 5 or 10mm tooth gear increment and work in those whole numbers to stay sane.  (and incidentally our presses come from Europe, they make things in 1/8" increment so they can actually successfully sell product here in the US).

For us to truly convert to metric, we'd need to fork out several million USD for all new tooling, and in some cases it would be cheaper to buy a new press instead, but would still be spending $xxx,xxx in print cylinder sets to cover the spectrum of needs for our customers.

So when I hear someone call for some law to force us to 'go metric' and we must shell out the money to convert, I'm thinking they should go xxxx up a rope.
+1

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5475
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #102 on: June 07, 2015, 12:52 PM »
Actually Alex, it's not valid. You are confusing a "Name" with a "Dimension". It may be called 4x8, but when working out dimensions it is typically inches. What makes it worse is Untidy's example of 2400x1200, because that one implies dimensions, but the actual size is not 2400x1200.

Actually Rick, it is perfectly valid and what you say now is nonsense because I'm not confusing anything. 4x8 is not a name, it is the exact size of the international standard for sheet material. Even here in metricland the boards we buy are often 1220 x 2440 mm, which is exactly 4x8 feet.

Please quit nitpicking, it was an example of how different units are used side by side constantly, and when you use different units side by side you're also very often converting them from one to another. Trying to deny that is simply nuts.
 

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #103 on: June 07, 2015, 01:23 PM »
Actually Rick, it is perfectly valid and what you say now is nonsense because I'm not confusing anything. 4x8 is not a name, it is the exact size of the international standard for sheet material. Even here in metricland the boards we buy are often 1220 x 2440 mm, which is exactly 4x8 feet.

Please quit nitpicking, it was an example of how different units are used side by side constantly, and when you use different units side by side you're also very often converting them from one to another. Trying to deny that is simply nuts.

Did you know that melamine sheets are typically 49"x97"?  [big grin] [big grin]

Have you not heard about the silly lawsuit against lumber dealers (California of course) claiming selling 2x4's was deceptive?  [scared]

But your example is spot-on to the difference between a name and a dimension. You call it 1200x2400, yet you/we know it is actually 1220x1440mm

But you apparently missed the original comment that mixing feet and inches is common because it has been done that way for so long by architects.

The average person does not need to make conversions on a regular basis. And as long as you are not making conversions, there is no benefit for one system over the other. That's exactly why it failed to catch on here.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1554
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #104 on: June 07, 2015, 01:33 PM »
The melamine example is common in the plastics industry.  The more expensive the plastic, the more overage the actual size.  4 X 8 acrylic are typically 48 X 96, however 4 X 8 polycarbonates, the more expensive, is often 1/4" - 3/8" oversize so there is less waste for kerfs.  Also, despite the imperial length and width dimensions, the thickness' are metric.

Offline Steve Rowe

  • Posts: 825
  • Teach them safety when they are young.
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #105 on: June 07, 2015, 01:37 PM »
Today's Dilbert seems quite appropriate for this thread now:

That Guy from the Internet

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5475
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #106 on: June 07, 2015, 01:44 PM »
You call it 1200x2400, yet you/we know it is actually 1220x1440mm

I never said I called it like that, because I don't. If it's 1220x2440 mm then I call it 1220x2440, or better, 122x244 because I convert it to centimeters. Or perhaps even go wild and say it in meters 1,22 x 2,44. Without getting a seizure. [tongue]

The average person does not need to make conversions on a regular basis. And as long as you are not making conversions, there is no benefit for one system over the other. That's exactly why it failed to catch on here.

Everybody constantly does conversions. It's futile and silly to deny that. And the only reason metric didn't catch on in the USA was because there was no will to go through the complicated process of change. And that's your good right, it is natural to object to change. Metric was not introduced here without a hiccup. It took generations to be accepted, but because it was done before 1800 already, we're fully adapted now.

America will be adapted once too, in the not too distant future. You've been living on your own island for centuries, but now there's the internet and there's no escaping other cultures anymore, not even for you superpower guys. Eventually, peer pressure will get you, as it always does.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3604
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #107 on: June 07, 2015, 02:15 PM »
Today's Dilbert seems quite appropriate for this thread now:

That Guy from the Internet

 [thumbs up] [thumbs up]

Who me?...I'm just passing time.   [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]

Offline Rick Christopherson

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    • http://www.rts-engineering.com/
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #108 on: June 07, 2015, 02:29 PM »
America will be adapted once too, in the not too distant future. You've been living on your own island for centuries, but now there's the internet and there's no escaping other cultures anymore, not even for you superpower guys. Eventually, peer pressure will get you, as it always does.

But the bigger question that is often overlooked, is why is it such an important thing for you...on a personal level? Why should it matter so much to you that the general public here chooses one system over the other?

It comes down to screws, and specifically wrenches. That's the only difference the average person encounters. But screws aren't designed by the general public. They are designed by industry.

You're fooling yourself if you think you've converted to metric, and this is especially evident in your example of 1220 by 1440 mm plywood. They are just numbers. You haven't changed the standard, just the number that is attached to it. The product isn't specifically metric nor imperial. Which of these two numbers is more accurate, 127mm versus 5 inches? Neither. They are both the same, and carry the same level of accuracy or inaccuracy. They are just numbers. People get hung up on numbers.

Offline RL

  • Posts: 3038
Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #109 on: June 07, 2015, 02:58 PM »
Why do some people feel the need to force a minority to change? We don't ask Belgians to quit speaking Belgian because virtually nobody else does. I'm quite happy working in metric and imperial and easily convert between the two. I use what makes most sense at the time.

When cooking we say a tablespoon of this, a pinch of that, a teaspoon of the other etc. we all know instantly what that means. We can visualize it straight away. I don't need some euro technocrat in Brussels to tell me I have to convert everything into grams and conform with people in another country! This is why so many people in the UK and elsewhere are fed up with the EU. (I'm making a general point, not directing it to Alex.).

I was brought up in metric but imperial has a feel to it that seems right. 1/4" tenon, 3/8" hole, 1/8" reveal, 3/4" rebate.

Actually it's amazing how little I use a ruler to be honest. When I make furniture I size pieces according to what looks right.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 03:00 PM by RL »

Offline sae

  • Posts: 841
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #110 on: June 07, 2015, 03:07 PM »
Why do some people feel the need to force a minority to change? We don't ask Belgians to quit speaking Belgian because virtually nobody else does. I'm quite happy working in metric and imperial and easily convert between the two. I use what makes most sense at the time.

When cooking we say a tablespoon of this, a pinch of that, a teaspoon of the other etc. we all know instantly what that means. We can visualize it straight away. I don't need some euro technocrat in Brussels to tell me I have to convert everything into grams and conform with people in another country! This is why so many people in the UK and elsewhere are fed up with the EU. (I'm making a general point, not directing it to Alex.).

I was brought up in metric but imperial has a feel to it that seems right. 1/4" tenon, 3/8" hole, 1/8" reveal, 3/4" rebate.

Actually it's amazing how little I use a ruler to be honest. When I make furniture I size pieces according to what looks right.

P.S. it's Flemish.  [tongue]

Offline Rip Van Winkle

  • Posts: 273
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #111 on: June 07, 2015, 03:30 PM »

Alex I generally agree with your last point, but audiences are a key factor here. Mention 4x8, 8x4 to someone who works/sells wood and they know it is a wood, plaster or cement based sheet product, even in a metric country where it is 2400mm x1200mm.

However mention 8x4 to a photographer and they may know it is a 8X4 inch sheet of photographic paper or plate film.

I am talking in general here, please don't go splitting it out how every individual's situation is different. My example is perfectly valid in Rick's case.

Just like @Paul G I understand using metric is not practical for you if you're the only one using it.

A conversion from one system to another is not something a country does overnight, it takes at least 2 generations. Your generation will not be the one to do it. But your kids or grand children will get better used to it because thanks to internet exposure, they will grow up with it.

Alex I regret you missed my point, and as to Australia, my generation was the one to do it. In 1970, when the introduction of Metric measurement was passed by legislation through the Australian Parliament, I was 20.  [eek]
-------
And despite the derogatory comments by some here on th FOG, but not you Alex, I am proud of the 30 years I spent in education teaching our young citizens the benifits and understandings of the metric system. But I do agree with those who state that MMs are more significant for woodworkers than CMs. But the foundations of the Metric system with regard to measurement of length are MMs, CMs, Metres and Kilometres.

I never emphasised Decimetres in the classroom; that was just too confusing. A bit like 2/32 being equal to 4/64th of an inch.  [big grin]

LOL

@Alex


This is one of the problems with the campaign to force the USA to switch to Metric.

Decimeters, and Deciliters for that matter, are actually reasonable measurements to use in daily life.

A decimeter is just under 4 inches. A rough conversion from feet to decimeters is easy since you just multiply by three.

A two by four would simply become a one by half, or a half by one.

The Festool tracks would be the 8, 14, 19, 27, 30, 50, and the just under 11, and holey 24.


Offline Reiska

  • Posts: 1157
  • Hackers build things, Crackers break them.
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #112 on: June 07, 2015, 03:31 PM »
Starbucks is world wide? Who'da thunk it?  [tongue]    Just running with the cup vs cup vs tea vs coffee idea. I agree, over roasted.

I am curious though ......... in the US every gas station and just about every other business has coffee available. Even if there wasn't a Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts on every corner it would be pretty easy to get coffee almost anytime anywhere. How universal is that?  At least in countries where coffee drinking is prevalent.

Seth

Well at least here in the land of most coffee consumed per capita in the world you cannot find a restaurant/workplace without a hot coffee pot on the table. (What the world drinks)

It's actually sometimes so standard that finding a tea bag and hot water is almost impossible.

And as far as the cup size goes it's fair game to drink it directly out of the pot or any other large vessel of your choice, the bigger the better.
The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. [big grin]

Offline Reiska

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #113 on: June 07, 2015, 03:54 PM »
Decimeters, and Deciliters for that matter, are actually reasonable measurements to use in daily life.

I agree with the decilitre, but I have never ever used decimetre in anything outside of theoretical math class when we were though the different 10 power increments of the metric system. And I've grown-up in a fully metric country. Neither do we use stuff like decametres as that would just sound silly - just say 10m and be done with it.
The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. [big grin]

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #114 on: June 07, 2015, 03:54 PM »
I'm surprised at those statistics, Reiska.

I spent some time with a few Finns and they were experts at drinking beer and throwing darts. They explained it as, "What would you do if it's dark all the time?".

I spent a lot of time with Italians and they drank coffee all day and all night. Never a cappuccino past 9:00 AM. Espresso every hour or so the rest of the day and into the evening.


Tom
Tom Bellemare
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Offline RL

  • Posts: 3038
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #115 on: June 07, 2015, 04:05 PM »
Why do some people feel the need to force a minority to change? We don't ask Belgians to quit speaking Belgian because virtually nobody else does. I'm quite happy working in metric and imperial and easily convert between the two. I use what makes most sense at the time.

When cooking we say a tablespoon of this, a pinch of that, a teaspoon of the other etc. we all know instantly what that means. We can visualize it straight away. I don't need some euro technocrat in Brussels to tell me I have to convert everything into grams and conform with people in another country! This is why so many people in the UK and elsewhere are fed up with the EU. (I'm making a general point, not directing it to Alex.).

I was brought up in metric but imperial has a feel to it that seems right. 1/4" tenon, 3/8" hole, 1/8" reveal, 3/4" rebate.

Actually it's amazing how little I use a ruler to be honest. When I make furniture I size pieces according to what looks right.

P.S. it's Flemish.  [tongue]

Yes, I know (!) I was just trying to come up with a small country with a language spoken by only a few. I didn't want to get into the whole Walloon/ Flemish/ Dutch/ French debate! Maybe I should have said Denmark instead.

Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #116 on: June 07, 2015, 04:08 PM »

Actually Rick, it is perfectly valid and what you say now is nonsense because I'm not confusing anything. 4x8 is not a name, it is the exact size of the international standard for sheet material. Even here in metricland the boards we buy are often 1220 x 2440 mm, which is exactly 4x8 feet.

.....in the U.K 8x4 is used [smile]
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3204
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #117 on: June 07, 2015, 05:15 PM »
Notice how us Yanks never try to get everyone else to use miles and feet and Fahrenheit?

By the way, you're welcome for the internet :-)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee

Offline Wuffles

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #118 on: June 07, 2015, 05:39 PM »
Notice how us Yanks never try to get everyone else to use miles and feet and Fahrenheit?

By the way, you're welcome for the internet :-)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee

I know it's all in the wording, but Tim Berners-Lee "invented" the World Wide Web really, the Internet (yes it's capitalised as it's generally classed as a place) was US based and stemmed from the ARPANET.

Don't hate me, just getting my geek on.

http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/definition/ARPANET
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline Alex

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #119 on: June 07, 2015, 05:41 PM »
But the bigger question that is often overlooked, is why is it such an important thing for you...on a personal level? Why should it matter so much to you that the general public here chooses one system over the other?

Because though we live in metricland we're constantly confronted with imperial measurements everywhere. Thanks to the industrial revolution which started in England when they still used imperial, lots and lots of technical things like for instance valves and tires (just 2 examples of many) are in imperial. The wood market is totally imperial because America, Canada and Brasil are huge wood exporters.

Whenever we go on the internet we read imperial stuff everywhere. And it's incredibly irritating.

Here on the forum somebody complains the scale on his saw is in metric, but it is really nothing compared to the amount of imperial the metric world is subjected to.

You're fooling yourself if you think you've converted to metric, and this is especially evident in your example of 1220 by 1440 mm plywood. They are just numbers. You haven't changed the standard, just the number that is attached to it. The product isn't specifically metric nor imperial. Which of these two numbers is more accurate, 127mm versus 5 inches? Neither. They are both the same, and carry the same level of accuracy or inaccuracy. They are just numbers. People get hung up on numbers.

Metric is not numbers, metric is a system that defines how different units of measurements are related to eachother. Using easy to understand steps of 10. Not 12, 3, 1760 like in Imperial.

« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 05:44 PM by Alex »

Offline Holmz

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #120 on: June 07, 2015, 05:41 PM »

P.S. it's Flemish.  [tongue]

Next you will trading in the doubles and triples for Budwiser and Coors.

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Offline Untidy Shop

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #121 on: June 07, 2015, 05:55 PM »
Regarding the dimensions of plywood sheet goods, and any comments regarding their real actual size, may I refer you to the Australian Standard, page 5  - 2400X1200.

http://www.ewp.asn.au/library/downloads/facts_about_plywood.pdf

@Alex @Rick Christopherson
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 05:57 PM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

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Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #122 on: June 07, 2015, 06:00 PM »
Meh, who cares.

Offline Alex

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #123 on: June 07, 2015, 06:03 PM »
Why do some people feel the need to force a minority to change? We don't ask Belgians to quit speaking Belgian because virtually nobody else does.

You're Canadian, so this doesn't apply directly to you, though you speak as an Imperial user here, but for the rest of the world, Imperial = USA. And the USA is actually extremely forceful in spreading it's cultural dominance all around the world. Like from that movie ... "Inside every gook there's an American dying to get out".

And along with the Big Macs and the action movies we like, we are also showered with Imperial, which we don't like. We pay good money for the Big Macs and the movies, and give our criticism on Imperial for free.

Offline T. Ernsberger

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #124 on: June 07, 2015, 06:05 PM »

Offline SittingElf

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #125 on: June 07, 2015, 06:13 PM »
I'm surprised at those statistics, Reiska.

I spent some time with a few Finns and they were experts at drinking beer and throwing darts. They explained it as, "What would you do if it's dark all the time?".

I spent a lot of time with Italians and they drank coffee all day and all night. Never a cappuccino past 9:00 AM. Espresso every hour or so the rest of the day and into the evening.


Tom

One more fun statistic:

The country with the most Starbucks per capita is:............. Singapore!  That's along with a large number of OTHER coffee chains as well.   [scratch chin] [big grin]

Cheers,

Frank
Woodworking is 3% talent and 97% paying attention to the FOG! 

hammerfelderowners.com

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #126 on: June 07, 2015, 06:16 PM »
Why do some people feel the need to force a minority to change? We don't ask Belgians to quit speaking Belgian because virtually nobody else does.

You're Canadian, so this doesn't apply directly to you, though you speak as an Imperial user here, but for the rest of the world, Imperial = USA. And the USA is actually extremely forceful in spreading it's cultural dominance all around the world. Like from that movie ... "Inside every gook there's an American dying to get out".

And along with the Big Macs and the action movies we like, we are also showered with Imperial, which we don't like. We pay good money for the Big Macs and the movies, and give our criticism on Imperial for free.

Alex, in another forum, I might have added support to your comments here regarding the cultural and economic imperialism of the United States.

But surely here on the FOG our debate should stick to the facts ( or our personal interpretation and thoughts) of mathematics and the structures and properties of wood products as they apply to measurement systems.

-----------

Interesting that two recent posts are now attempting to take the ball and play elsewhere!  [smile]
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 06:19 PM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline DB10

  • Posts: 901
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #127 on: June 07, 2015, 07:20 PM »
Meh, who cares.

Agree!!!
Yep this subject is now officially, flogged to death!

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1913
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #128 on: June 07, 2015, 09:06 PM »
Why do some people feel the need to force a minority to change? We don't ask Belgians to quit speaking Belgian because virtually nobody else does.

You're Canadian, so this doesn't apply directly to you, though you speak as an Imperial user here, but for the rest of the world, Imperial = USA. And the USA is actually extremely forceful in spreading it's cultural dominance all around the world. Like from that movie ... "Inside every gook there's an American dying to get out".

And along with the Big Macs and the action movies we like, we are also showered with Imperial, which we don't like. We pay good money for the Big Macs and the movies, and give our criticism on Imperial for free.

Alas we get to the crux of the matter, this has little to do with weights and measures and more to do with anti-America sentiments.
+1

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1789
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #129 on: June 07, 2015, 09:39 PM »
Frustrations with Imperial doesn't equate to being Anti-American. Alex is a thoughtful and important member of this community. When you hear something that bothers you from such a person it might be an opportunity for a little self-assessment.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1913
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #130 on: June 07, 2015, 10:13 PM »
Frustrations with Imperial doesn't equate to being Anti-American. Alex is a thoughtful and important member of this community. When you hear something that bothers you from such a person it might be an opportunity for a little self-assessment.

Yea, I woke up this morning thinking I'd like to force my cultural dominance all around the world. But then which culture would that be since I'm an immigrant to America. Oops.

No, I wake up like most folks just wanting to earn a living.

FTR, I have nothing against Alex and greatly appreciated his contributions. But I can't for the life of me understand why folks in other countries get their buns tied in knots over what weights and measures we use here. I could care less that my relatives in Sweden, Canada and China use metric, and if I were to sell product in their countries it wouldn't surprise or bother me in the least that they would desire those products to be in metric.
+1

Offline RL

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #131 on: June 07, 2015, 10:24 PM »
+1

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #132 on: June 07, 2015, 11:37 PM »
Starting to get into the weeds here with the country vs. country type stuff.

Seth


Offline jacko9

  • Posts: 2345
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #133 on: June 07, 2015, 11:44 PM »
Starting to get into the weeds here with the country vs. country type stuff.

Seth

Yep

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5475
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #134 on: June 08, 2015, 02:25 AM »
Alas we get to the crux of the matter, this has little to do with weights and measures and more to do with anti-America sentiments.

No, this has nothing to do with anti-America sentiments. I was simply bringing this up to show how metricland is exposed to imperial. You should not interpret this so negative, Paul, this really has only to do with weights and measures.

Starting to get into the weeds here with the country vs. country type stuff.

Alex, in another forum, I might have added support to your comments here regarding the cultural and economic imperialism of the United States.

But surely here on the FOG our debate should stick to the facts ( or our personal interpretation and thoughts) of mathematics and the structures and properties of wood products as they apply to measurement systems.

Yes, I'm sorry to bring this up, I don't want to go anywhere near a political discussion, but I was asked by two people "Why is it important to you", and I can't answer that without going a bit into our cultural differences and where and how they meet.

I'll shut up now.  [wink]
 
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 02:37 AM by Alex »

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #135 on: June 08, 2015, 02:31 AM »
Regarding the dimensions of plywood sheet goods, and any comments regarding their real actual size, may I refer you to the Australian Standard, page 5  - 2400X1200.

http://www.ewp.asn.au/library/downloads/facts_about_plywood.pdf

@Alex @Rick Christopherson

At work today in the TimberYard, I cross checked three sheets of ply, two made in Australia and one imported from Brazil. All were 2400X1200mm.

Within the European Union why are similar sheet goods 2440X1220mm which is closer to 8X4 feet? Is this because some sheet goods are imported from North America? What size are those made in Scandinavia for the European Market?

I am not trying to reserect the metric/imperial debate here, but some comments in this thread regarding sheet sizes have raised my curiosity.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 02:35 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5475
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #136 on: June 08, 2015, 02:39 AM »
Europe hardly grows any wood by itself. We import almost all wood and a lot of it comes from North and South America.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #137 on: June 08, 2015, 05:04 AM »
Regarding the dimensions of plywood sheet goods, and any comments regarding their real actual size, may I refer you to the Australian Standard, page 5  - 2400X1200.

http://www.ewp.asn.au/library/downloads/facts_about_plywood.pdf

@Alex @Rick Christopherson

At work today in the TimberYard, I cross checked three sheets of ply, two made in Australia and one imported from Brazil. All were 2400X1200mm.

Within the European Union why are similar sheet goods 2440X1220mm which is closer to 8X4 feet? Is this because some sheet goods are imported from North America? What size are those made in Scandinavia for the European Market?

I am not trying to reserect the metric/imperial debate here, but some comments in this thread regarding sheet sizes have raised my curiosity.

I've noticed many anomalies myself.

When you checked, were you checking markings or actual measurements?

Must be a real nuisance if your standard supply varies.

I buy from Brunzyeel in Brookvale ... check out the mix in their 1200's v's 1220's ...

http://www.bruynzeel.com.au/products/plywoods.aspx

I'd be curious whether many Aussie builders get stuck having framed with 610mm stud centres expecting 1220mm sheet goods and end up with 1200mm sheets?

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric? Ply sizes.
« Reply #138 on: June 08, 2015, 06:59 AM »
Hi Kev,

At work, actual with Lufkin metric tape measure and assisted by a work colleague who was quite bemused!  [big grin]

I knew the result would be 2400X1200 but the discussion here on the FOG had raised some doubts. I checked a sheet of marine, non-structural and exterior ply.

After reading your reply, have just been down to the Untidy Shop and measured a sheet of 19mm Brazilian non-structural ply and one of Australian 32mm HoopPine.




However found some MDF that was 1215mm in width.  [eek]

By the way, most timber stud centres around here are 450mm, 600 is max.

Is your Supplier selling Aussie or imported ply? He seems to have two main sizes 2400X1200 and 2440X1220mm.

References
http://www.australply.com.au/index.php/products/austral-premium-ac-ext
http://www.ewp.asn.au/library/downloads/facts_about_plywood.pdf
http://www.build.com.au/installing-plasterboard-walls-and-insulation

@Kev
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 07:13 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric? Ply sizes.
« Reply #139 on: June 08, 2015, 11:13 AM »
Hi Kev,

At work, actual with Lufkin metric tape measure and assisted by a work colleague who was quite bemused!  [big grin]

I knew the result would be 2400X1200 but the discussion here on the FOG had raised some doubts. I checked a sheet of marine, non-structural and exterior ply.

After reading your reply, have just been down to the Untidy Shop and measured a sheet of 19mm Brazilian non-structural ply and one of Australian 32mm HoopPine.

(Attachment Link)


However found some MDF that was 1215mm in width.  [eek]

By the way, most timber stud centres around here are 450mm, 600 is max.

Is your Supplier selling Aussie or imported ply? He seems to have two main sizes 2400X1200 and 2440X1220mm.

References
http://www.australply.com.au/index.php/products/austral-premium-ac-ext
http://www.ewp.asn.au/library/downloads/facts_about_plywood.pdf
http://www.build.com.au/installing-plasterboard-walls-and-insulation

@Kev

Agree on centres ... hence the curiosity! [smile]

I've been side tracked looked at hours of youtube videos on the various ply sheet good and ply faced door making machines and techniques. Wanna buy a factory? http://www.plywoodplantmachinery.com  [big grin] [big grin]

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric? Ply sizes.
« Reply #140 on: June 08, 2015, 06:12 PM »
Quote from: Untidy Shop link=topic=40629.msg400652#msg400652 date=1433761175
[/quote

Agree on centres ... hence the curiosity! [smile]

I've been side tracked looked at hours of youtube videos on the various ply sheet good and ply faced door making machines and techniques. Wanna buy a factory? http://www.plywoodplantmachinery.com  [big grin] [big grin]

No thanks. Given Alex's comment re the state of European Timber production (and my own observations in 2006) there is an obvious reason for its sale.  [smile] I note that one of the selling points they make is the quality and condition of the machinery because it has not been in constant use.

@Kev  @Alex
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 06:17 PM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline andvari

  • Posts: 423
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #141 on: June 08, 2015, 10:37 PM »
Some history behind this....

Thomas Jefferson proposed adoption of a decimal measurement system to the US Congress in 1790, before the French adopted their Metric System. As ambassador to France he had many discussions with the French about the desirability of such a system. Jefferson was successful in getting the US to adopt a decimal currency, perhaps the first such in the world in 1784. Unfortunately Congress did not adopt his system of weights and measures. This would have been the time to do it as then the US had no real standards, just a lot of local customs.

Many historians believe that without the influence of Jefferson on France they would have not adopted a decimal system of measurement. The French didn't waste their opportunity - they started the conversion after the revolution. It's also interesting that some French experiments with decimalization failed - for example the French tried a 10 hour per day clock, with decimal divisions of the hours. You can even find some clocks with this decimal time system in museums. Ultimately the French efforts to impose the metric system were not at all smooth. Napoleon even put it in abeyance for a while.

At present, officially the US has adopted the metric system. It is a signatory to every one of the international metric system treaties and is one of the 17 original signatories to the Treaty of the Metre. However conversion while in progress is going to take a long, long time.

Some branches of the US Government have been using the metric system since the early 1800's, such as the US Coastal and Geodetic Survey.

The US switched to defining the units of inches, pounds and so forth in terms of the base metric units in 1893, the so-called Mendenhal order. This definition is really the end of the English system of units in the US, and establishes a new standard, some call the US traditional measures.

In 1964 the US National Bureau of Standards adopted the use of the Metric System for all of its work excluding a few rare cases where this would obviously be detrimental.

During the 1970's there was a significant effort to metricize the US top down. This failed miserably and is now used as a case study in marketing and management courses taught in the US on why such things are difficult to impossible.

What we have now is a system where both metric measures and traditional units are in commerce at the same time. There are no regulations that force either metric or US units, however government procurement is exerting some pressure, as is international trade.

Liter soda bottles are the standard in stores now. Many other food packages are metric sized. The trend there is probably the furthest along.

For woodworkers in the US it's unlikely they will see a 5cm x 10cm stick any time soon. It seems everywhere this type of commodity is one of the slowest to change to metric standards anywhere there is a metrification because buildings themselves have a very long life cycle.

For me anyway I have an interesting situation. My workshop has mostly tools with metric scales and dimensions, however my raw materials are pretty much have US traditional dimensions.

So anyway you can call on the US to adopt the metric system if you want. But realize in many ways it already has. What it hasn't done is impose metric measurements on articles of commerce by law. That was already tried once unsuccessfully. Even if it worked some things like lumber and sheet goods would probably not have changed in actual physical form at all because of the existing inventory of structures.

TS55, Domino 500, Domino Assortment, OF1400, CT36+Boom Arm, T12+3, FS3000, Parallel Guides, RO 90, ETS 150/3, Domino XL, Domiplate, LS130, RTS Guide Stop, CMS-GE, Carvex 420

Offline Daver

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    • Moonbase Alpha
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #142 on: June 09, 2015, 04:34 AM »
Why do some people feel the need to force a minority to change? We don't ask Belgians to quit speaking Belgian because virtually nobody else does. I'm quite happy working in metric and imperial and easily convert between the two. I use what makes most sense at the time.

When cooking we say a tablespoon of this, a pinch of that, a teaspoon of the other etc. we all know instantly what that means. We can visualize it straight away. I don't need some euro technocrat in Brussels to tell me I have to convert everything into grams and conform with people in another country! This is why so many people in the UK and elsewhere are fed up with the EU. (I'm making a general point, not directing it to Alex.).

I was brought up in metric but imperial has a feel to it that seems right. 1/4" tenon, 3/8" hole, 1/8" reveal, 3/4" rebate.

Actually it's amazing how little I use a ruler to be honest. When I make furniture I size pieces according to what looks right.

P.S. it's Flemish.  [tongue]

Yes, I know (!) I was just trying to come up with a small country with a language spoken by only a few. I didn't want to get into the whole Walloon/ Flemish/ Dutch/ French debate! Maybe I should have said Denmark instead.

*The following is not a political position. It's a beer position.*

LEAVE BELGIUM ALONE


 [popcorn]
 [thumbs up]
Your work should reflect your fingerprints. -James Krenov
I'm not funny. What I am is brave. -Lucille Ball

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #143 on: June 09, 2015, 07:31 AM »
Why do some people feel the need to force a minority to change? We don't ask Belgians to quit speaking Belgian because virtually nobody else does. I'm quite happy working in metric and imperial and easily convert between the two. I use what makes most sense at the time.

When cooking we say a tablespoon of this, a pinch of that, a teaspoon of the other etc. we all know instantly what that means. We can visualize it straight away. I don't need some euro technocrat in Brussels to tell me I have to convert everything into grams and conform with people in another country! This is why so many people in the UK and elsewhere are fed up with the EU. (I'm making a general point, not directing it to Alex.).

I was brought up in metric but imperial has a feel to it that seems right. 1/4" tenon, 3/8" hole, 1/8" reveal, 3/4" rebate.

Actually it's amazing how little I use a ruler to be honest. When I make furniture I size pieces according to what looks right.

P.S. it's Flemish.  [tongue]

Yes, I know (!) I was just trying to come up with a small country with a language spoken by only a few. I didn't want to get into the whole Walloon/ Flemish/ Dutch/ French debate! Maybe I should have said Denmark instead.

*The following is not a political position. It's a beer position.*

LEAVE BELGIUM ALONE
(Attachment Link)

 [popcorn]
 [thumbs up]

Chimay here (Oz) is about the same price as a medium to good bottle of wine! Haven't tried it to be honest. I take it you like it??

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #144 on: June 09, 2015, 08:47 AM »
Why do some people feel the need to force a minority to change? We don't ask Belgians to quit speaking Belgian because virtually nobody else does. I'm quite happy working in metric and imperial and easily convert between the two. I use what makes most sense at the time.

When cooking we say a tablespoon of this, a pinch of that, a teaspoon of the other etc. we all know instantly what that means. We can visualize it straight away. I don't need some euro technocrat in Brussels to tell me I have to convert everything into grams and conform with people in another country! This is why so many people in the UK and elsewhere are fed up with the EU. (I'm making a general point, not directing it to Alex.).

I was brought up in metric but imperial has a feel to it that seems right. 1/4" tenon, 3/8" hole, 1/8" reveal, 3/4" rebate.

Actually it's amazing how little I use a ruler to be honest. When I make furniture I size pieces according to what looks right.

P.S. it's Flemish.  [tongue]

Yes, I know (!) I was just trying to come up with a small country with a language spoken by only a few. I didn't want to get into the whole Walloon/ Flemish/ Dutch/ French debate! Maybe I should have said Denmark instead.

*The following is not a political position. It's a beer position.*

LEAVE BELGIUM ALONE
(Attachment Link)

 [popcorn]
 [thumbs up]

Chimay here (Oz) is about the same price as a medium to good bottle of wine! Haven't tried it to be honest. I take it you like it??

@Kev

Same in the US, but it is worth it for an occasional treat. Best to share a bottle or several with buddies, preferably whilst the meat is smoking.

What boggles my mind is how you Aussies can grow the grapes, make the wine, buy the bottle & label, fill it, ship it to the US, sell it at wholesale and then the retailer can sell me a bottle of Oz wine for seven or eight bucks?!?!? International trade and finance are beyond me.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric with wine.
« Reply #145 on: June 09, 2015, 09:54 AM »
 
Richard, please do not drink that factory wine!

Here is a list of regions that produce very good to excellent Australian  wine (and in Metric bottles  [big grin]).

http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/travel/destinations/2013/07/10-of-australias-best-wine-regions

There are other Regions, but these are a good start. Also look for wines from grapes grown on the Bellarine Peninsula and around the LimeStoneCoast.

http://www.thebellarinetastetrail.com.au/discover/wineries/group,id,1173,1-1.aspx

http://limestonecoastwine.com.au/regional-info/regions/

@Richard/RMW. @Kev

Edit
And my favourite Australian wine, trouble is the price is now reaching Festool proportions -

http://sallyspaddock.com.au/product/sallys-paddock/
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 10:29 AM by Untidy Shop »
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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3604
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #146 on: June 09, 2015, 10:22 AM »
@Kev
Treat yourself to a Chimay, delicious. I usually drink Chimay in the fall and winter months when I enjoy a heartier brew. Use the Chimay glass shown or some type of open goblet. Chimay advises that like a red wine, the beer needs to open up and the style of glass does affect the flavor.

From the Chimay website:
Chimay is an authentic Trappist beer. That means that it is brewed within the walls of a Trappist monastery under the control and responsibility of the community of monks, and whose revenue is devoted to social service.

The “Authentic Trappist Product" logo is granted by the International Trappist Association.
It guarantees the consumer the Trappist origin of the products according to well-established principles:

1. They are manufactured on-site or in close proximity to the monastery.
2. The monastic community is engaged in management and all aspects of the means necessary for their operation. This must clearly reflect both the unquestionably subordinate relationship with the beneficiary monastery and the relationship with the culture of the enterprise itself in the plan of monastic life.
3. The income provides for the major portion of the necessities of the community and for social services.

Offline RL

  • Posts: 3038
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #147 on: June 09, 2015, 10:36 AM »
I prefer the blue Chimay to the red, but they also make a gold which I've never had. I also like Duvel a lot.

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric with wine.
« Reply #148 on: June 09, 2015, 01:34 PM »

Richard, please do not drink that factory wine!

Here is a list of regions that produce very good to excellent Australian  wine (and in Metric bottles  [big grin]).

http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/travel/destinations/2013/07/10-of-australias-best-wine-regions

There are other Regions, but these are a good start. Also look for wines from grapes grown on the Bellarine Peninsula and around the LimeStoneCoast.

http://www.thebellarinetastetrail.com.au/discover/wineries/group,id,1173,1-1.aspx

http://limestonecoastwine.com.au/regional-info/regions/

@Richard/RMW. @Kev

Edit
And my favourite Australian wine, trouble is the price is now reaching Festool proportions -

http://sallyspaddock.com.au/product/sallys-paddock/

@Untidy Shop thanks for the recommendations, I'll add it to my list for the next trip to a decent wine store. On our little island we are a tad limited.

Gotta admit my taste in beer is (somewhat) more sophisticated than in wine. For Aussie vino we generally make our choice of the Yellow Tail based on label color, i.e. "Honey, do you want the purple or blue one today?".

Now for bourbon and cervasas, I am a touch more particular, and it never bothers me that one is 750 ML and the other 12 OZ...

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric with wine.
« Reply #149 on: June 09, 2015, 01:37 PM »

Richard, please do not drink that factory wine!

Here is a list of regions that produce very good to excellent Australian  wine (and in Metric bottles  [big grin]).

http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/travel/destinations/2013/07/10-of-australias-best-wine-regions

There are other Regions, but these are a good start. Also look for wines from grapes grown on the Bellarine Peninsula and around the LimeStoneCoast.

http://www.thebellarinetastetrail.com.au/discover/wineries/group,id,1173,1-1.aspx

http://limestonecoastwine.com.au/regional-info/regions/

@Richard/RMW. @Kev

Edit
And my favourite Australian wine, trouble is the price is now reaching Festool proportions -

http://sallyspaddock.com.au/product/sallys-paddock/

@Untidy Shop thanks for the recommendations, I'll add it to my list for the next trip to a decent wine store. On our little island we are a tad limited.

Gotta admit my taste in beer is (somewhat) more sophisticated than in wine. For Aussie vino we generally make our choice of the Yellow Tail based on label color, i.e. "Honey, do you want the purple or blue one today?".

Now for bourbon and cervasas, I am a touch more particular, and it never bothers me that one is 750 ML and the other 12 OZ...

RMW

And, at the risk of quoting myself, why the heck are American Bourbon's in 750 ML bottles?

Now there's a question to keep me up at night...

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline teocaf

  • Posts: 598
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #150 on: June 09, 2015, 03:16 PM »
that's right.  a fifth contained about 7 more mL, so perhaps they are converting to int'l std. metric only when it suits the bottom line...  (of course, that's assuming the price stayed the same)

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Offline Daver

  • Posts: 167
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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #151 on: June 09, 2015, 03:18 PM »
Chimay here (Oz) is about the same price as a medium to good bottle of wine! Haven't tried it to be honest. I take it you like it??

I do. I highly recommend it Kev.

I prefer the blue Chimay to the red, but they also make a gold which I've never had. I also like Duvel a lot.

My brother turned me on to Chimay and the red is his favorite. I've tried the blue and white labels but find myself ordering Chimay Rouge like him.

Duvel is good stuff along with many other Belgian beers, hence my post.   ;D
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Offline teocaf

  • Posts: 598
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #152 on: June 09, 2015, 03:29 PM »
Not all Belgian beers are created equal.  Here's a "Belgian beer" that could use some innovation inside the can, not just the outside "wrapper"


Offline vkumar

  • Posts: 326
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric with wine.
« Reply #153 on: June 09, 2015, 04:53 PM »

And, at the risk of quoting myself, why the heck are American Bourbon's in 750 ML bottles?

Now there's a question to keep me up at night...

RMW

The US liquor industry converted to metric in the late seventies.  At that time they went from some 11 sizes to about 5 (give or take) . The fifth (of a gallon) became 750ml. The quart became a liter, the pint became 500 ml, half pint became 250 ml, and half gallon became 1.75 liter.

Vijay
Vijay Kumar
Size Large

Offline Slartibartfass

  • Posts: 912
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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #154 on: June 09, 2015, 05:36 PM »
6 pages already on this discussion....? Geez  [scared]

Offline Mr Heavy

  • Posts: 100
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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #155 on: June 09, 2015, 05:58 PM »
missing the point entirely that they're not actually alternatives, they are parallel systems with different strengths.

They actually really are alternatives. Where one system is the evolution of the other.

There is just as much strength in imperial as the horse carriage is strong against a car.  Sure, the horse carriage is romantic, but for your daily business you're really better off with the latter.

If you simply stick to measuring you will not really see a difference between metric and imperial. But once you start doing calculations with those measurements, you will understand the benefit of metric.

Umm.. you just corrected me to kind-of repeat what I was saying before you "corrected" me, minus any nuance.
I take it you don't read poetry?  [wink]

Yes the imperial system is rather romantic, but to hate it for that's a bit "soul of a Dalek," dontya think?

It has its place, unless you're a totally left-brained pedant with no sense of humour and the hots for slide rules.
As I said in my previous post, as soon as you start doing "calculations" the metric system wins hands down.

The metric system is NOT an evolution of the imperial - it's a complete rethink. Some Imperial measurements aren't even internally consistent - try calculating fabric dimensions in bolts, for example. Some measurements are metric but not S.I., for example - centilitres in wine sales, cc in automotive displacement, cm in poisoning the minds of kids. Angstrom is not S.I. but nanometre is though they're both metric with one decimal point difference.

Much depends on what one's daily business is, of course. Your eponymous horsemonger would be at home with hands, furlongs and chains whereas a fisherman wouldn't - unless he was a gambling fisherman. A physicist working in foot-pounds might well be able to get his colleague on the moon, but with ten times as much calculating and the scope for errors that all the back and forth conversions encourage.

Other than that issue I don't think we disagree on the value of the metric system but I'd rather you'd actually read and understood my original post before choosing to correct my "understanding." The irony is amusing, however. [big grin]

Now, to avoid using either the metric or Imperial system, who's for making the official distance measurement of this forum the parsec? It might need a few extra decimal places...
Sys4 with cheese sandwich, a small pork pie with Tabasco sauce, a nice bottle of dry, vintage Prosecco and three reusable ice packs. Olives with pimento and a capon, roast in Dijon mustard. Several slices of fresh pineapple, a scale model of the Eiffel tower made from noodles, black forest gateau and a gingham table cloth for the MFT-3. A block of Parmesan and a Stanley 2" chisel for grating.
Sys3 with a half bottle of La Fée Absinthe, a spoon and vodka-soaked mint with Rothenberger blow-torch.
125 year old balsamic vinegar in spray bottle.
Ibuprofen and a pair of handcuffs. 2 loaves, 5 (very) small fishes, some bread, broken. A goblet of blood-red wine, a hammer... nails

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #156 on: June 09, 2015, 06:29 PM »
I'll measure in parsecs if you can give me a common symbol for twenty zeroes! [big grin]


Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1939
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #157 on: June 09, 2015, 06:32 PM »

Not all Belgian beers are created equal.  Here's a "Belgian beer" that could use some innovation inside the can, not just the outside "wrapper"

(Attachment Link)

That appears to be a 2deg dovetail bit that they made that can with.

People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline SittingElf

  • Posts: 1374
  • 66 Systainers and rising! YIKES!
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #158 on: June 10, 2015, 12:40 AM »
I'm tired of the Imperial vs Metric arguments.

I've decided to ignore those systems and start measuring in Cubits.  It worked just fine for Noah building his ark, so it should be good for me too! [tongue] [big grin]

Frank

P.S.  1 cubit = 45.72 cm
 [popcorn] [popcorn]
Woodworking is 3% talent and 97% paying attention to the FOG! 

hammerfelderowners.com

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #159 on: June 10, 2015, 04:53 AM »
I'm tired of the Imperial vs Metric arguments.

I've decided to ignore those systems and start measuring in Cubits.  It worked just fine for Noah building his ark, so it should be good for me too! [tongue] [big grin]

Frank

P.S.  1 cubit = 45.72 cm
 [popcorn] [popcorn]

That's 6.74907607174 x 1016 cubits to the parsec for the star travellers out there.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #160 on: June 10, 2015, 04:57 AM »

So Frank, returning the thread back to drinking, I estimate that a Cubit would be approx. the same height as a Rehoboam Champagne Bottle which contains 4.5 litres.  [smile]

http://www.champagne.sparklingdirect.co.uk/champagne_bottle_sizes.asp

@SittingElf

Edit: I am sure that the mathematical genius who just previously posted will shortly either confirm or discredit my estimation!  [big grin]

@Kev

Well Kev?  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 05:06 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

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Offline SittingElf

  • Posts: 1374
  • 66 Systainers and rising! YIKES!
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #161 on: June 10, 2015, 05:21 AM »

So Frank, returning the thread back to drinking, I estimate that a Cubit would be approx. the same height as a Rehoboam Champagne Bottle which contains 4.5 litres.  [smile]

http://www.champagne.sparklingdirect.co.uk/champagne_bottle_sizes.asp

@SittingElf

Edit: I am sure that the mathematical genius who just previously posted will shortly either confirm or discredit my estimation!  [big grin]

@Kev

Well Kev?  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]

@Untidy Shop

Can't speak for Kev, but based on one of your recent posts, I imagine you are probably right, because it's obvious you were around when Noah was building his ark and trying to find a pair of Pterodactyls to add to the menage!! [big grin] [big grin]  You might have even been an apprentice on the Ark! [tongue]

Frank
Woodworking is 3% talent and 97% paying attention to the FOG! 

hammerfelderowners.com

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #162 on: June 10, 2015, 06:16 AM »

So Frank, returning the thread back to drinking, I estimate that a Cubit would be approx. the same height as a Rehoboam Champagne Bottle which contains 4.5 litres.  [smile]

http://www.champagne.sparklingdirect.co.uk/champagne_bottle_sizes.asp

@SittingElf

Edit: I am sure that the mathematical genius who just previously posted will shortly either confirm or discredit my estimation!  [big grin]

@Kev

Well Kev?  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]

Ah yes ... the favourite drinking vessel of the Judea Peoples Front.

Based on the fact that a double magnum is typically only about 30% taller than a normal bottle and holds 4x, I'm going to say you're probably on the money with the height!

Offline WPeters

  • Posts: 199
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #163 on: June 10, 2015, 06:17 AM »
Hmmm do you think they are using cubits while building this ark?  www.arkencounter.com

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #164 on: June 10, 2015, 06:33 AM »
Hmmm do you think they are using cubits while building this ark?  www.arkencounter.com

Based on the authentic use of trucks, forklifts and pre-package timber I'd say most certainly [wink]

Offline WPeters

  • Posts: 199
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #165 on: June 10, 2015, 06:35 AM »
Hmmm do you think they are using cubits while building this ark?  www.arkencounter.com

Based on the authentic use of trucks, forklifts and pre-package timber I'd say most certainly [wink]
Of course I'd bet if Noah had all that available he would have used it too:)

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #166 on: June 10, 2015, 07:32 AM »
Hmmm do you think they are using cubits while building this ark?  www.arkencounter.com

Based on the authentic use of trucks, forklifts and pre-package timber I'd say most certainly [wink]
Of course I'd bet if Noah had all that available he would have used it too:)

Yeh ... bet he had to sharpen his axe a few times!

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #167 on: June 10, 2015, 07:55 AM »
Hmmm do you think they are using cubits while building this ark?  www.arkencounter.com

Based on the authentic use of trucks, forklifts and pre-package timber I'd say most certainly [wink]
Of course I'd bet if Noah had all that available he would have used it too:)

The answer to that lies in their FAQ, and it's hilarious.

Number 7.

https://answersingenesis.org/ministry-news/ark-encounter/answers-for-the-ark-scoffers/

Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #168 on: June 10, 2015, 07:56 AM »


@Untidy Shop

Can't speak for Kev, but based on one of your recent posts, I imagine you are probably right, because it's obvious you were around when Noah was building his ark and trying to find a pair of Pterodactyls to add to the menage!! [big grin] [big grin]  You might have even been an apprentice on the Ark! [tongue]

Frank
Yep, me and Tinker were certainly the apprentices; he being older was final year. As I recall we had 66 boxes containing various hand tools with green handles!  [big grin]

@SittingElf  @Tinker
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 08:02 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #169 on: June 10, 2015, 08:01 AM »
Hmmm do you think they are using cubits while building this ark?  www.arkencounter.com

Based on the authentic use of trucks, forklifts and pre-package timber I'd say most certainly [wink]
Of course I'd bet if Noah had all that available he would have used it too:)

The answer to that lies in their FAQ, and it's hilarious.

Number 7.

https://answersingenesis.org/ministry-news/ark-encounter/answers-for-the-ark-scoffers/

LoL ... you'd think with all that advanced tech they'd be a couple of other seaworthy boats then heh [big grin] [big grin]

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3548
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #170 on: June 10, 2015, 08:02 AM »

So Frank, returning the thread back to drinking, I estimate that a Cubit would be approx. the same height as a Rehoboam Champagne Bottle which contains 4.5 litres.  [smile]

http://www.champagne.sparklingdirect.co.uk/champagne_bottle_sizes.asp

@SittingElf

Edit: I am sure that the mathematical genius who just previously posted will shortly either confirm or discredit my estimation!  [big grin]

@Kev

Well Kev?  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]

@Untidy Shop

Can't speak for Kev, but based on one of your recent posts, I imagine you are probably right, because it's obvious you were around when Noah was building his ark and trying to find a pair of Pterodactyls to add to the menage!! [big grin] [big grin]  You might have even been an apprentice on the Ark! [tongue]

Frank
Yep, me and Tinker were certainly the apprentices; he being older was final year. As I recall we had 66 boxes containing various hand tools with green handles!  [big grin]

@SittingElf  @Tinker

@ Untidy Shop 
Hey, I was the architect on that job. I was way ahead of all of you.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1789
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #171 on: June 10, 2015, 09:39 AM »

So Frank, returning the thread back to drinking, I estimate that a Cubit would be approx. the same height as a Rehoboam Champagne Bottle which contains 4.5 litres.  [smile]

http://www.champagne.sparklingdirect.co.uk/champagne_bottle_sizes.asp

@SittingElf

Edit: I am sure that the mathematical genius who just previously posted will shortly either confirm or discredit my estimation!  [big grin]

@Kev

Well Kev?  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]

@Untidy Shop

Can't speak for Kev, but based on one of your recent posts, I imagine you are probably right, because it's obvious you were around when Noah was building his ark and trying to find a pair of Pterodactyls to add to the menage!! [big grin] [big grin]  You might have even been an apprentice on the Ark! [tongue]

Frank
Yep, me and Tinker were certainly the apprentices; he being older was final year. As I recall we had 66 boxes containing various hand tools with green handles!  [big grin]

@SittingElf  @Tinker

@ Untidy Shop 
Hey, I was the architect on that job. I was way ahead of all of you.
Tinker


Didn't know the ark was made of cement blocks!
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #172 on: June 10, 2015, 10:49 AM »

So Frank, returning the thread back to drinking, I estimate that a Cubit would be approx. the same height as a Rehoboam Champagne Bottle which contains 4.5 litres.  [smile]

http://www.champagne.sparklingdirect.co.uk/champagne_bottle_sizes.asp

@SittingElf

Edit: I am sure that the mathematical genius who just previously posted will shortly either confirm or discredit my estimation!  [big grin]

@Kev

Well Kev?  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]

@Untidy Shop

Can't speak for Kev, but based on one of your recent posts, I imagine you are probably right, because it's obvious you were around when Noah was building his ark and trying to find a pair of Pterodactyls to add to the menage!! [big grin] [big grin]  You might have even been an apprentice on the Ark! [tongue]

Frank
Yep, me and Tinker were certainly the apprentices; he being older was final year. As I recall we had 66 boxes containing various hand tools with green handles!  [big grin]

@SittingElf  @Tinker

@ Untidy Shop 
Hey, I was the architect on that job. I was way ahead of all of you.
Tinker


Didn't know the ark was made of cement blocks!

No I didn't ... that's really heavy man [blink]

Offline NL-mikkla

  • Posts: 216
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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #173 on: June 10, 2015, 11:11 AM »
Let's get back to a very good point, the map Shane showed us.
I think that says it all.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #174 on: June 10, 2015, 11:35 AM »
Let's get back to a very good point, the map Shane showed us.
I think that says it all.

Truth be told this topic had been done to death a dozen times ... like that guys? ... I used a dozen [wink]

It's an entertaining distraction that sometimes a few take too seriously.

Some people get set in their ways and don't like change ... the U.S. doesn't have a monopoly on that condition. Don't start me on the French [wink]

Give it fifty years ... the world will be metric, a lot of the current FOG members will have shuffled, cars will drive themselves (or whatever the care equivalent is) and the entire left/right drive thing will be moot. It's likely in a few decades that our basis for commerce will have completely evolved and I predict that JMB will have built a woodworking space state out of mahogany and be working from earth orbit.

It's also likely by then that such things as direct conversation is no longer the common mode and we communicate through interpretive devices that deal with ambiguity and preference (imagine talking to a person in China about inches and their hearing you in realtime Mandarin with measurements in millimetres) - that could be less than ten years, probably bio implants in 50 years doing far more!

Probably still no hover board though [mad]

Offline WastedP

  • Posts: 342
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #175 on: June 10, 2015, 04:22 PM »
I've worked in an all-metric cabinet shop and I thought it was great.  I love working in mils, especially when dealing with hinges and slides.  But outside of the cabinet industry, I'm not sure there's a lot of pressure for other trades to adapt.  My father's a plumber, and I don't see the metric system changing his life, except for stating that a 6L toilet uses "about a gallon and a half per flush."

One thing I would note about oddball plywood sizes (1240, etc) is that some sheetgoods are oversized for trim.  Sheets of industrial particleboard and plastic laminate here are usually an inch, er, 25 mm larger than their nominal size.  So some 4x8's are 49" by 97".  I don't know how many times that 61st inch of laminate has saved my hide.

Offline benwheeler

  • Posts: 164
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #176 on: June 10, 2015, 04:30 PM »
Hmmm do you think they are using cubits while building this ark?  www.arkencounter.com

Based on the authentic use of trucks, forklifts and pre-package timber I'd say most certainly [wink]
Of course I'd bet if Noah had all that available he would have used it too:)

The answer to that lies in their FAQ, and it's hilarious.

Number 7.

https://answersingenesis.org/ministry-news/ark-encounter/answers-for-the-ark-scoffers/

LoL ... you'd think with all that advanced tech they'd be a couple of other seaworthy boats then heh [big grin] [big grin]
The first one was probably built by a 3D printer [emoji23]

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5475
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #177 on: June 10, 2015, 05:01 PM »
Only after a whole lot of Chimays' do I believe a pair of penguins walked all the way from Antarctica to the Middle East to board Noah's ark. Dunno how many parsecs that is exactly, but it must be quite a few.

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #178 on: June 10, 2015, 05:05 PM »
Only after a whole lot of Chimays' do I believe a pair of penguins walked all the way from Antarctica to the Middle East to board Noah's ark. Dunno how many parsecs that is exactly, but it must be quite a few.

A nice glass of Westmalle Tripel will help with Noah's headcount (17 species of penguin according to Google) @Alex  [wink]
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3548
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #179 on: June 10, 2015, 05:39 PM »

So Frank, returning the thread back to drinking, I estimate that a Cubit would be approx. the same height as a Rehoboam Champagne Bottle which contains 4.5 litres.  [smile]

http://www.champagne.sparklingdirect.co.uk/champagne_bottle_sizes.asp

@SittingElf

Edit: I am sure that the mathematical genius who just previously posted will shortly either confirm or discredit my estimation!  [big grin]

@Kev

Well Kev?  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]

@Untidy Shop

Can't speak for Kev, but based on one of your recent posts, I imagine you are probably right, because it's obvious you were around when Noah was building his ark and trying to find a pair of Pterodactyls to add to the menage!! [big grin] [big grin]  You might have even been an apprentice on the Ark! [tongue]

Frank
Yep, me and Tinker were certainly the apprentices; he being older was final year. As I recall we had 66 boxes containing various hand tools with green handles!  [big grin]

@SittingElf  @Tinker

@ Untidy Shop 
Hey, I was the architect on that job. I was way ahead of all of you.
Tinker


Didn't know the ark was made of cement blocks!

As a matter of fact, it was.  We used epoch-se mortar to hold the blocks together.  ::)
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #180 on: June 10, 2015, 06:24 PM »

So Frank, returning the thread back to drinking, I estimate that a Cubit would be approx. the same height as a Rehoboam Champagne Bottle which contains 4.5 litres.  [smile]

http://www.champagne.sparklingdirect.co.uk/champagne_bottle_sizes.asp

@SittingElf

Edit: I am sure that the mathematical genius who just previously posted will shortly either confirm or discredit my estimation!  [big grin]

@Kev

Well Kev?  [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]

@Untidy Shop

Can't speak for Kev, but based on one of your recent posts, I imagine you are probably right, because it's obvious you were around when Noah was building his ark and trying to find a pair of Pterodactyls to add to the menage!! [big grin] [big grin]  You might have even been an apprentice on the Ark! [tongue]

Frank
Yep, me and Tinker were certainly the apprentices; he being older was final year. As I recall we had 66 boxes containing various hand tools with green handles!  [big grin]

@SittingElf  @Tinker

@ Untidy Shop 
Hey, I was the architect on that job. I was way ahead of all of you.
Tinker


Didn't know the ark was made of cement blocks!

As a matter of fact, it was.  We used epoch-se mortar to hold the blocks together.  ::)
Tinker
The fate of those left behind was certainly cemented.

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Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric with wine.
« Reply #181 on: June 10, 2015, 08:04 PM »

And, at the risk of quoting myself, why the heck are American Bourbon's in 750 ML bottles?

Now there's a question to keep me up at night...

RMW

The US liquor industry converted to metric in the late seventies.  At that time they went from some 11 sizes to about 5 (give or take) . The fifth (of a gallon) became 750ml. The quart became a liter, the pint became 500 ml, half pint became 250 ml, and half gallon became 1.75 liter.

Vijay

Phew! Now I can sleep tonight.

Thanks @vkumar

RMW

PS - The late 70's was well before I was partaking, even illegally...

PPS - Okay, not well before...

 [big grin]
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3548
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #182 on: June 10, 2015, 08:09 PM »
I had a neighbor way back when i was in HS who liked to imbibe just a bit.  His MD told him he had to quit drinking so much alcohol.  He told my mom that he did cut back a lot.

"I cut back from a quart of Scotch a day to a fifth." he told her.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #183 on: June 10, 2015, 08:12 PM »
I'm tired of the Imperial vs Metric arguments.

I've decided to ignore those systems and start measuring in Cubits.  It worked just fine for Noah building his ark, so it should be good for me too! [tongue] [big grin]

Frank

P.S.  1 cubit = 45.72 cm
 [popcorn] [popcorn]

Wrong! My cubit = ~510mm... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubit

Dontcha love Google, Wikipedia and Siri? Today at lunch w/ a client we asked her (Siri) who played Elliott Ness in the original Untouchables (Robert Stack) and now I won't have to wake from a sound sleep tonight and yell out his name. Actually, we were talking about the movie Airplane! but we tend to digress on our best days.

RMW
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 08:27 PM by Richard/RMW »
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #184 on: June 10, 2015, 08:14 PM »
I had a neighbor way back when i was in HS who liked to imbibe just a bit.  His MD told him he had to quit drinking so much alcohol.  He told my mom that he did cut back a lot.

"I cut back from a quart of Scotch a day to a fifth." he told her.
Tinker



[big grin]

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #185 on: June 10, 2015, 08:26 PM »
Let's get back to a very good point, the map Shane showed us.
I think that says it all.

Truth be told this topic had been done to death a dozen times ... like that guys? ... I used a dozen [wink]

It's an entertaining distraction that sometimes a few take too seriously.

Some people get set in their ways and don't like change ... the U.S. doesn't have a monopoly on that condition. Don't start me on the French [wink]

Give it fifty years ... the world will be metric, a lot of the current FOG members will have shuffled, cars will drive themselves (or whatever the care equivalent is) and the entire left/right drive thing will be moot. It's likely in a few decades that our basis for commerce will have completely evolved and I predict that JMB will have built a woodworking space state out of mahogany and be working from earth orbit.

It's also likely by then that such things as direct conversation is no longer the common mode and we communicate through interpretive devices that deal with ambiguity and preference (imagine talking to a person in China about inches and their hearing you in realtime Mandarin with measurements in millimetres) - that could be less than ten years, probably bio implants in 50 years doing far more!

Probably still no hover board though [mad]

@Kev I have to admit that I converted to Metric sometime after buying my TS55/MFT3, and as the son of an old-time carpenter that was a tough hurdle. I even do all my design in metric now and the little gadgets I sell use metric hardware. All my Woodpecker's OTT tools are metric.

And I still look at something and think "that's about 4 inches, so call it 100MM" or " "that measures 100MM so it's about 4"...  [doh]

Not sure if it is humanly possible to make the shift in less than 2-3 generations of concentrated effort.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #186 on: June 10, 2015, 08:29 PM »
I'm tired of the Imperial vs Metric arguments.

I've decided to ignore those systems and start measuring in Cubits.  It worked just fine for Noah building his ark, so it should be good for me too! [tongue] [big grin]

Frank

P.S.  1 cubit = 45.72 cm
 [popcorn] [popcorn]

Wrong! My cubit = ~510mm... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubit

Dontcha love Google, Wikipedia and Siri? Today at lunch w/ a client we asked her (Siri) who played Elliott Ness in the original Untouchables (Robert Stack) and now I won't have to wake from a sound sleep tonight and yell out his name. Actually, we were talking about the movie Airplane! but we tend to digress on our best days.

RMW

That's going to screw my parsec calc by about a third of a light year  [sad]

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #187 on: June 10, 2015, 08:34 PM »
I'm tired of the Imperial vs Metric arguments.

I've decided to ignore those systems and start measuring in Cubits.  It worked just fine for Noah building his ark, so it should be good for me too! [tongue] [big grin]

Frank

P.S.  1 cubit = 45.72 cm
 [popcorn] [popcorn]

Wrong! My cubit = ~510mm... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubit

Dontcha love Google, Wikipedia and Siri? Today at lunch w/ a client we asked her (Siri) who played Elliott Ness in the original Untouchables (Robert Stack) and now I won't have to wake from a sound sleep tonight and yell out his name. Actually, we were talking about the movie Airplane! but we tend to digress on our best days.

RMW

That's going to screw my parsec calc by about a third of a light year  [sad]

@Kev I avoid text-ish acronyms like the plague but, for you, LOL!

Gotta love that we can jabber back and forth from 2 continents with only minutes between posts. 20:31 here on 6/10, and I am signing off to go enjoy a cigar out in the shed/shop.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Greg Powers

  • Posts: 2224
  • Metric convert
    • Stargate Unofficiial
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #188 on: June 10, 2015, 10:05 PM »
 You're just in the wrong industry.  The medical industry has been using metric for years.
Greg Powers
Size:XL

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Kev, Isn't it about time U.S. went metric with Hoverboads.
« Reply #189 on: June 11, 2015, 04:26 AM »
Let's get. . . .

Truth be told this topic . . . . . . . .  bly bio implants in 50 years doing far more!
Probably still no hover board though [mad]

You think!  [smile]



http://www.businessinsider.com.au/hendo-hoverboard-maker-wants-to-hover-your-house-in-an-earthquake-2015-6

@Kev
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 04:28 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline WPeters

  • Posts: 199
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #190 on: June 11, 2015, 12:11 PM »
Only after a whole lot of Chimays' do I believe a pair of penguins walked all the way from Antarctica to the Middle East to board Noah's ark. Dunno how many parsecs that is exactly, but it must be quite a few.

I did a little digging, no pun intended [big grin]....as baffling as those traveling penquins...how did the sea fossils end up in the Himalayas or 29,029 feet (8,848 m) [wink]  above sea level?

https://answersingenesis.org/fossils/fossil-record/high-dry-sea-creatures/
https://answersingenesis.org/animal-behavior/migration/how-did-animals-spread-from-where-ark-landed/




Only after a whole lot of Chimays' do I believe a pair of penguins walked all the way from Antarctica to the Middle East to board Noah's ark. Dunno how many parsecs that is exactly, but it must be quite a few.

A nice glass of Westmalle Tripel will help with Noah's headcount (17 species of penguin according to Google) @Alex  [wink]

I guess he just needed to take the "granddaddy penguins"  [smile]...https://answersingenesis.org/creation-science/baraminology/what-are-kinds-in-genesis/   Maybe the "Kinds" and "species" discussions is like the Metric and Imperial???  On that note, I think a big challenge for me would be thinking and building in Metric and then communicating with clients and contracters in Imperial....

Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #191 on: June 11, 2015, 01:40 PM »
You're just in the wrong industry.  The medical industry has been using metric for years.

Auto production in North America has been metric for 25 years already

Offline WastedP

  • Posts: 342
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #192 on: June 11, 2015, 03:05 PM »

Auto production in North America has been metric for 25 years already

Sort of.  I had a '94 Grand Cherokee that inexplicably had standard and metric fasteners, with no real rhyme or reason to their distribution throughout the vehicle.

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3343
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #193 on: June 11, 2015, 04:39 PM »

Auto production in North America has been metric for 25 years already

Sort of.  I had a '94 Grand Cherokee that inexplicably had standard and metric fasteners, with no real rhyme or reason to their distribution throughout the vehicle.

My '98 Expedition was the same way.  The engine was made in Windsor, Ontario, and totally metric, but other parts weren't. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1939
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #194 on: June 11, 2015, 05:28 PM »


Auto production in North America has been metric for 25 years already

Sort of.  I had a '94 Grand Cherokee that inexplicably had standard and metric fasteners, with no real rhyme or reason to their distribution throughout the vehicle.

My '98 Expedition was the same way.  The engine was made in Windsor, Ontario, and totally metric, but other parts weren't.

And meanwhile... Across the river...

People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #195 on: June 13, 2015, 06:12 AM »
Automotive production is a special breed. There has developed such complications when changing/updating models that changes can take a while as the change can affect many different vehicles and getting all those vehicle teams to agree on changes is a challenge. The desire to offer the consumer all the different choices in the NA market made design and production of the Detroit based cars unwieldy and the imports with far fewer platforms were able to react far faster to changes and ate our proverbial lunch.

The half metric half imperial cars were symptomatic of this

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3980
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #196 on: June 13, 2015, 06:43 AM »
...
Gotta love that we can jabber back and forth from 2 continents with only minutes between posts. 20:31 here on 6/10, and I am signing off to go enjoy a cigar out in the shed/shop.

RMW

Well most other places it is 10/6... "the 10th of the 6th", "10 Jun or 10/6/2015.

That is not exactly metric, but close enough.

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #197 on: June 13, 2015, 07:54 AM »
...
Gotta love that we can jabber back and forth from 2 continents with only minutes between posts. 20:31 here on 6/10, and I am signing off to go enjoy a cigar out in the shed/shop.

RMW

Well most other places it is 10/6... "the 10th of the 6th", "10 Jun or 10/6/2015.

That is not exactly metric, but close enough.

That's just cuz you guys are upside down...  [poke]

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3343
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #198 on: June 13, 2015, 07:57 AM »
Automotive production is a special breed. There has developed such complications when changing/updating models that changes can take a while as the change can affect many different vehicles and getting all those vehicle teams to agree on changes is a challenge. The desire to offer the consumer all the different choices in the NA market made design and production of the Detroit based cars unwieldy and the imports with far fewer platforms were able to react far faster to changes and ate our proverbial lunch.

The half metric half imperial cars were symptomatic of this

Speaking of half-and-half cars, back in the early 70s, I worked for the local phone company installing and repairing data communications facilities and equipment.  The garage from which I worked also housed the mobile telephone shop that installed what were known as KBQ phones in cars and trucks, long before cell phones.  One night there was a fleet of cars from the DC government waiting to have phones installed.  I was looking at one in particular that, from the front, just didn't look right.  I walked along the right side and noted the Ford Granada emblem and trim.  Around back, I noted that the car had two different taillights.  Walking by the left side, it had the Mercury Monarch emblem and trim.  Back to the front, and the difference was more apparent - two different style headlight bezels.  So much for Ford's quality control in the 70s!!!   [crying]   
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Davej

  • Posts: 630
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #199 on: June 13, 2015, 08:52 AM »
...
Gotta love that we can jabber back and forth from 2 continents with only minutes between posts. 20:31 here on 6/10, and I am signing off to go enjoy a cigar out in the shed/shop.

RMW

Well most other places it is 10/6... "the 10th of the 6th", "10 Jun or 10/6/2015.

That is not exactly metric, but close enough.

That's just cuz you guys are upside down...  [poke]

RMW


And you guys are back to front.  [big grin]
I dont mind growing old but i refuse to grow up

Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #200 on: June 13, 2015, 08:58 AM »
What you experienced with the Granada/Monarch is classic and illustrates a massive problem with the NA automotive manufactures that still exists today. I'm not referring to the Quality issue as we have means to control that but the marketing driven decisions that have car variants multiplying like rabbits to offer consumers more perceived choice, this choice costs the consumer huge due to extra costs to make to nearly identical things instead of double the volume of one. At that time the Ford Granada, Mercury Monarch and the Lincoln Versailles were all basically the same vehicle with cosmetic differences. One of the craziest of these in my career was the Gen 1 Cadillac Escalade - it was fundamentally exactly a Chevy Tahoe with a bit better plastic, seats and badging at a cost difference of approx. $1,500 more for the bells and whistles but sold for $15 to $20k more. 

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3343
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #201 on: June 13, 2015, 06:54 PM »
What you experienced with the Granada/Monarch is classic and illustrates a massive problem with the NA automotive manufactures that still exists today. I'm not referring to the Quality issue as we have means to control that but the marketing driven decisions that have car variants multiplying like rabbits to offer consumers more perceived choice, this choice costs the consumer huge due to extra costs to make to nearly identical things instead of double the volume of one. At that time the Ford Granada, Mercury Monarch and the Lincoln Versailles were all basically the same vehicle with cosmetic differences. One of the craziest of these in my career was the Gen 1 Cadillac Escalade - it was fundamentally exactly a Chevy Tahoe with a bit better plastic, seats and badging at a cost difference of approx. $1,500 more for the bells and whistles but sold for $15 to $20k more.

And the Lincoln Navigator is nothing but a Ford Expedition in drag, with a huge price jump. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #202 on: June 14, 2015, 11:12 AM »
In the '70's, I worked at the docks in Houston as a Longshoreman part-time, it paid really well for a kid... I had a "car job" one day unloading Porsch/Audi/Volkswagons. We would get in the car on the ship and drive it to a predetermined spot. It was uncanny how similar they all were. There were really just cosmetic differences (knobs, etc.) in places.

Shortly after Ford bought Jaguar, I got in one for a trip across Southern Germany, Austria, Switzerland, etc... I had recently been in a Crown Vic' in Houston. The similarity was striking.


Tom
Tom Bellemare
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Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #203 on: June 14, 2015, 11:24 AM »
VW/Audi does that too.  Jetta=A4.  Passat=A6.

Oh there's loads more than that  [smile]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_platforms
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline chris s

  • Posts: 102
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #204 on: July 20, 2015, 09:45 AM »
When I was in high school(a long time ago) my math teacher said ," work in one or the other" this has always worked for me.
 If the directions are in metric that is what I use ,if in inches I use that. The problems arise when you start to transpose the two. Today there are many metric rules around so that  should be no problem.
 Personally I find the metric system superior

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3548
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #205 on: July 20, 2015, 03:41 PM »
Many moons ago, i ran across an add somewhere and sent for the item right away. I do not very often order something thru the mail or internet from anywhere I do not know.  This item was too good to pass up. That was maybe 20 years ago.  Once i sent the order, i started to worry, but within a week i had the item. I liked it so much, I ordered a duplicate for my son. His eventually grew wings, but mine, i keep well hidden and never loan out any of the parts. 

The item:  Metrinch.  A set of wrenches and sockets that can be used with metric and inch nuts and bolts.  The set is not heavy duty, but I use the set often.  During my outdoor season, i store it under piles of pruning tools and seed bags in my truck.  If anybody is looking for a wrench, they would get worn out digging for that set.  I never leave it out in the open.  During winter, while working in my shop, only I know where that set is.  And/ I ain't telling'
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #206 on: July 20, 2015, 06:58 PM »
Many moons ago, i ran across an add somewhere and sent for the item right away. I do not very often order something thru the mail or internet from anywhere I do not know.  This item was too good to pass up. That was maybe 20 years ago.  Once i sent the order, i started to worry, but within a week i had the item. I liked it so much, I ordered a duplicate for my son. His eventually grew wings, but mine, i keep well hidden and never loan out any of the parts. 

The item:  Metrinch.  A set of wrenches and sockets that can be used with metric and inch nuts and bolts.  The set is not heavy duty, but I use the set often.  During my outdoor season, i store it under piles of pruning tools and seed bags in my truck.  If anybody is looking for a wrench, they would get worn out digging for that set.  I never leave it out in the open.  During winter, while working in my shop, only I know where that set is.  And/ I ain't telling'
Tinker
You realise you've just made your Metrinch set a much larger target than your garden gnomes to fun seekers all over the FOG [cool]

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3343
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #207 on: July 20, 2015, 06:59 PM »
Tinker, you can still get the Metrinch goodies at Amazon.
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline jacko9

  • Posts: 2345
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #208 on: July 20, 2015, 08:44 PM »
Tinker, you can still get the Metrinch goodies at Amazon.

Dang, that's pretty expensive ($489.99 US) for a set of unknown quality tools.

Jack

Offline Joseph C

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #209 on: July 20, 2015, 09:46 PM »
I just installed an Italian-made modern kitchen (don't ask too closely about the quality of details) where the drawings were solely in metric.  I ditched my combination tapes and used full metric measures for everything.  I AM IN LOVE!
Even though I can cut 3/8" on the miter saw without measuring, and though I can't yet cut 9mm without measuring, I am finding myself using the metric measurements for everything I can right now.
TS75, OF1010, PS300, Domino500, MFT/3, CT22 + WCR, CT MIDI, RS2e, RO150, ETS150, DS400, RO90, Grex 2" micropinner (festool green), and packing everything else into systainers, too.

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3343
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #210 on: July 21, 2015, 08:20 AM »
Tinker, you can still get the Metrinch goodies at Amazon.

Dang, that's pretty expensive ($489.99 US) for a set of unknown quality tools.

Jack

Yup.  Methinks I'll stick with my Snap-On wrenches.  Expensive, but so worth it.
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

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Offline jaguar36

  • Posts: 182
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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #211 on: July 21, 2015, 09:47 AM »
You're just in the wrong industry.  The medical industry has been using metric for years.

The US Aerospace industry (and aviation in general) still uses imperial and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon.  The cost/benefit of designing a new airframe in metric is just to high for an industry that is as specialized as Aerospace.

And as long as I'm using imperial at work, its what I'm going to be using at home too.

Offline Gerald_D

  • Posts: 259
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #212 on: July 21, 2015, 10:39 AM »
I don't know about the rest of the US but, thanks partly to owning Festool, I'm continuing down the slippery slope of going metric in my workshop- purchased a Hulfators Talmeter 3M tape from Tool Home today.  It just seems to be the right choice as I continue to use my LR32 system more.  The total conversion will take some time (if ever)- have many Woodpeckers squares and other measuring tools in imperial that will be quite expensive to replace.  Will probably need to remain 'multi-lingual' in my measuring capabilities.

Regards,
Gerald
Gerald
I have Festools- Big and Small and a few other tools

Offline sae

  • Posts: 841
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #213 on: July 23, 2015, 07:03 PM »
You're just in the wrong industry.  The medical industry has been using metric for years.

The US Aerospace industry (and aviation in general) still uses imperial and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon.  The cost/benefit of designing a new airframe in metric is just to high for an industry that is as specialized as Aerospace.

And as long as I'm using imperial at work, its what I'm going to be using at home too.

Yep, I'm told even Airbus uses imperial hardware.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #214 on: July 23, 2015, 09:37 PM »
Jed: "Hey Clem, you'd wouldn't believe it .. an alien space ship crashed in front of the pickup on my way over"
Clem: "Wow! What happened?"
Jed: "Well, I got out and helped the alien get to his feet and we turned his spaced the right way up"
Clem: "Amazing, was he thankful?"
Jed: "Well .. initially I thought he was, he said that aliens shouldn't interfere with primitive cultures, but now that I'd seen him, he said he'd give me the plans to build an anti gravity device as a thank you"
Clem: "Heck! Show me!!"
Jed: "Nah, I threw the plans away - at first I was amazed, then when I started to make sense of them I realized all the dimensions were in some stupid and undecipherable base ten measurement system"
Clem: "Right thing to do too .. in fact I bet the stupid alien's spaceship wouldn't have even crashed if he'd build it properly - in INCHES!!!"
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 11:57 PM by Kev »

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #215 on: July 23, 2015, 10:19 PM »
So I found these great Decorative Head bolts that are really handy for jigs and stuff in the shop. They come in 1/4"-20 and 5/16"-18 thread, in lengths like .471", .591", .708", and so on.



They are advertised with 17mm heads... they need 4mm & 5mm hex wrenches... seemed unusual.

I got curious about the lengths, turns out .471" = 12mm, .591" = 15mm, and .708" = 18mm...  [doh]

It's enough to make a guy a bit psycho.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #216 on: July 24, 2015, 11:57 AM »
I like those and for the life of me I can't find a supplier of something similar in Oz .. you'd think it would be easy!

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #217 on: July 24, 2015, 12:53 PM »
I like those and for the life of me I can't find a supplier of something similar in Oz .. you'd think it would be easy!

Google "type bb connector bolts" and see if that helps. Essentra has them in metric threads so they should be available somewhere.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #218 on: July 24, 2015, 01:35 PM »
I like those and for the life of me I can't find a supplier of something similar in Oz .. you'd think it would be easy!

Google "type bb connector bolts" and see if that helps. Essentra has them in metric threads so they should be available somewhere.

RMW

Perfect .. https://www.essentracomponents.com.au/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=12983

Thanks [wink]

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #219 on: July 24, 2015, 04:43 PM »
I like those and for the life of me I can't find a supplier of something similar in Oz .. you'd think it would be easy!
Mmmmm, let me think?  [eek]
Oh yes, Home Hardware, Bunnings, Masters ....  You know Kev, those big Australian Hardware Chains that you drive past on the way to Northern Abrasives.  [big grin]

Look for the displays of Prestige Cabinet Connecters.

http://www.itwproline.com.au/default.aspx?FolderID=219



@Kev
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 04:55 PM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #220 on: July 24, 2015, 08:49 PM »
I like those and for the life of me I can't find a supplier of something similar in Oz .. you'd think it would be easy!
Mmmmm, let me think?  [eek]
Oh yes, Home Hardware, Bunnings, Masters ....  You know Kev, those big Australian Hardware Chains that you drive past on the way to Northern Abrasives.  [big grin]

Look for the displays of Prestige Cabinet Connecters.

http://www.itwproline.com.au/default.aspx?FolderID=219

(Attachment Link)

@Kev

Sadly I do everything I can to avoid sending my hard earned through corporations that are owned publicly. With some things you just can't avoid it.


Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3548
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #221 on: July 25, 2015, 04:13 AM »
I have a whole bunch of those bolts buried somewhere among the debris of my shop.  I think I got them from rockler many moons ago.

They called them "Barrel Bolts".  They came with a little round barrel shaped nut on the end.  I got a bunch of them when I was building a workbench and was planning to make a bunk bed for a friend. They are handy for anywhere you might need to retighten along the way.  also, anywhere you need a bolt buried completely within the project As RMW said, they are handy for a lot of shop stuff. I have seen them listed elsewhere as "Connector Bolts".

Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline mike_aa

  • Posts: 978
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #222 on: July 25, 2015, 10:58 AM »
@Richard/RMW

I need less than 12 of the nickel 1/4-20 bolts in approximately 20mm length.  Do you know of a source where I can buy them in short lengths in small quantities?  The woodworking stores do have them, but not that short.

I took your earlier suggestion and googled, but the results all seem to be manufacturers or distributors that sell in quantities of 1,000.

Thanks, Mike A.   

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #223 on: July 25, 2015, 11:27 AM »
@Richard/RMW

I need less than 12 of the nickel 1/4-20 bolts in approximately 20mm length.  Do you know of a source where I can buy them in short lengths in small quantities?  The woodworking stores do have them, but not that short.

I took your earlier suggestion and googled, but the results all seem to be manufacturers or distributors that sell in quantities of 1,000.

Thanks, Mike A.

@mike_aa Stafast sells in small quantities, I ordered a mixture of sized in qty of 10-50 no problem:

http://shop.stafast.com/

Not sure if the have a minimum but the quantity was not an issue.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline mike_aa

  • Posts: 978
Re: Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
« Reply #224 on: July 25, 2015, 12:12 PM »
@Richard/RMW

Thanks!  I added 10 (the minimum number) to the cart to see what happened and it took it fine.  Only $1.19 for ten of them.  No mention that I see of a minimum order dollar amount, but I think I'll look at other stuff I might need anyway and put it all on one order.

Thanks, Mike A.