Author Topic: Powering the shop  (Read 2114 times)

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Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 510
Powering the shop
« on: July 21, 2018, 02:04 PM »
Last summer I built a new shop. The shop is 20'x20' detached from the house. I put a 100amps sub-panel feed from my house main 200amps. Since there is several new threads about new shop, I thought it would be beneficial to show my setup.

The beast:


Feel free to comment or ask any question  [big grin]

Note: I still have to encase the cables. I was waiting to see it I need additional wiring  [wink]
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 07:44 PM by Mario Turcot »
Mario
Start my Festool adventure buying the DF 500 & CT-26
Following by the TS-55 with FS-1400 LR32 & ETC EC 125
Pulled the trigger on the OF 1400 and the LR32 system
Need a longer rail FS-1900 & RO 90
and finally the KS-120

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Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 510
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2018, 02:05 PM »
The wiring:


The panel is almost full. Mostly from 220v/20amps breakers for heating and machinery. Most 110v/15amps outlets are splitted. Inside and outside lightning are each on a separate breaker.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 02:29 PM by Mario Turcot »
Mario
Start my Festool adventure buying the DF 500 & CT-26
Following by the TS-55 with FS-1400 LR32 & ETC EC 125
Pulled the trigger on the OF 1400 and the LR32 system
Need a longer rail FS-1900 & RO 90
and finally the KS-120

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 510
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2018, 02:05 PM »
Getting the wires together:


The wires are tied down together from start to end. I have bundle the wires in the attic to ensure noon get nailed. Each wire drops from the attic, no wires are going through studs. It end up costing twice in wiring but that was at the owner expenses  [big grin]
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 02:28 PM by Mario Turcot »
Mario
Start my Festool adventure buying the DF 500 & CT-26
Following by the TS-55 with FS-1400 LR32 & ETC EC 125
Pulled the trigger on the OF 1400 and the LR32 system
Need a longer rail FS-1900 & RO 90
and finally the KS-120

Offline denovo

  • Posts: 44
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2018, 05:34 PM »
That looks really clean.  Is there a reason you decided to go with split 15A plugs instead of 20A?

According to electrical code locally we are unable to bundle wires for any significant distance and if they are bundled you have to reduce the load on the wires (presumably for fire reasons).  Probably not an issue if you are the only one working in the shop but something to be aware of

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 510
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2018, 06:21 PM »
That looks really clean.  Is there a reason you decided to go with split 15A plugs instead of 20A?

According to electrical code locally we are unable to bundle wires for any significant distance and if they are bundled you have to reduce the load on the wires (presumably for fire reasons).  Probably not an issue if you are the only one working in the shop but something to be aware of

Split plugs: Being splited I don't have to reach for a separate circuit. Every outlet use two separate breaker.

15 amps versus 20: I would had to run 12ag instead of 14ag. I hate working with 12g in a 2x4 box  [scared] and I currently don't have any tool that exceed 15 amps. The closest is the Kapex and it's on a dedicated breaker.

Bundle wire: Honestly that's something that never came to my mind. Having worked as an industrial electrician for almost 20 years I used to run cables in a tray/conduit but never use NMD7 cables that way. However like you said it's a small shop and the chances are really thin that someone else will be using any outlet while I am there. The longest wire I have are about 30 feet.
Mario
Start my Festool adventure buying the DF 500 & CT-26
Following by the TS-55 with FS-1400 LR32 & ETC EC 125
Pulled the trigger on the OF 1400 and the LR32 system
Need a longer rail FS-1900 & RO 90
and finally the KS-120

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 146
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2018, 07:17 PM »
What's up with the red and blue NM?   In the US we have white (14awg), yellow (12awg). orange (10 awg). I haven't seen or heard of red or blue, is that for 3 wire stuff vs 2 wire?  they don't look big enough to be 6 or 8

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 510
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2018, 07:36 PM »
What's up with the red and blue NM?   In the US we have white (14awg), yellow (12awg). orange (10 awg). I haven't seen or heard of red or blue, is that for 3 wire stuff vs 2 wire?  they don't look big enough to be 6 or 8

Our local code do not specify any color for cables. It's more like a standard where the red used to be for heating 12/2 and the white mostly for everything else. When I pulled the cables it was easier for identification instead of marking each cable. I used the blue for lightning and the yellow 12/2 for supplemental heating. I have a plug on each corners where I can get xtra heating.

Outlet at each corner:

Right now the Boss sound system is plugged into one of those outlet. I can also use the outlet to recharge my Arlo camera.

Infrared Heater:

Give and almost instant heat. I keep the temp to around 14C/54F if it get a bit too cold for my old bones I switch on one of the heater and it takes about 10-15 minutes to get it comfortable.

Heating switches:

Heavy duty switches, control two outlets each in a diagonal pattern.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 07:40 PM by Mario Turcot »
Mario
Start my Festool adventure buying the DF 500 & CT-26
Following by the TS-55 with FS-1400 LR32 & ETC EC 125
Pulled the trigger on the OF 1400 and the LR32 system
Need a longer rail FS-1900 & RO 90
and finally the KS-120

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 590
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2018, 10:41 PM »
Wish you were my neighbor. It cost me over $400 just to get a master electrician to feed a 220V wire from the panel (basement) to my shop (garage). To run the kind of wiring seen in your photos, I'd need to sell blood (again and again...) to cover the expenses.

Be careful with the radiant heater. The thin pull cord could break after heavy use and trying to attach a new cord is not as easy as you may think.


Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 510
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2018, 10:55 PM »
Wish you were my neighbor. It cost me over $400 just to get a master electrician to feed a 220V wire from the panel (basement) to my shop (garage). To run the kind of wiring seen in your photos, I'd need to sell blood (again and again...) to cover the expenses.

Be careful with the radiant heater. The thin pull cord could break after heavy use and trying to attach a new cord is not as easy as you may think.

I know exactly what you mean  [scared]. I may look to trade the thin rope for a bead chain eventually.
Mario
Start my Festool adventure buying the DF 500 & CT-26
Following by the TS-55 with FS-1400 LR32 & ETC EC 125
Pulled the trigger on the OF 1400 and the LR32 system
Need a longer rail FS-1900 & RO 90
and finally the KS-120

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 146
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2018, 10:58 PM »
What's up with the red and blue NM?   In the US we have white (14awg), yellow (12awg). orange (10 awg). I haven't seen or heard of red or blue, is that for 3 wire stuff vs 2 wire?  they don't look big enough to be 6 or 8

Our local code do not specify any color for cables. It's more like a standard where the red used to be for heating 12/2 and the white mostly for everything else. When I pulled the cables it was easier for identification instead of marking each cable. I used the blue for lightning and the yellow 12/2 for supplemental heating. I have a plug on each corners where I can get xtra heating.


It's not code in the US either, just all the NM manufactures realized a few years ago it would be a good idea to make it easy to identify.  Also helps the building inspectors.   I've never seen NM in Blue or Red , thus I was assuming Canada had something going on.  Seams surprising a manufacture would make it unless their was some general industry plan going on.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 510
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2018, 11:05 PM »
It's not code in the US either, just all the NM manufactures realized a few years ago it would be a good idea to make it easy to identify.  Also helps the building inspectors.   I've never seen NM in Blue or Red , thus I was assuming Canada had something going on.  Seams surprising a manufacture would make it unless their was some general industry plan going on.

Quite honestly, it was the first time I saw the blue. As far as I remember the red has been used for a many decades. I don't recall seeing the yellow either.
Mario
Start my Festool adventure buying the DF 500 & CT-26
Following by the TS-55 with FS-1400 LR32 & ETC EC 125
Pulled the trigger on the OF 1400 and the LR32 system
Need a longer rail FS-1900 & RO 90
and finally the KS-120

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 146
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2018, 11:07 PM »
Also your panel "annoys" me.  In that manufactures advertise the panels having an option of white, but good luck ever finding one for sale.  Grey is fine, but it would be nice to easily be able to buy a white deadface / trim cover for them.  Also every time I look at mine and basically any manufacture in the US they all have the knockouts in the corners, none on the middle of the sides.  So then you either have everything jammed in the corner, or you have to drill your own holes like I've done.   Your panels is closer to how I wish they were made/sold here.

On the other hand, it seams Canada require that internal cover around the service connection that panels in the US do not have.  Or at least that seams to be what it looks like code requires based on watching shows filmed in Canada.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 510
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2018, 11:17 PM »
I don't like the white face either  [sad]

Yes in Canada the main connectors have to be enclosed. If you have to work into that part the power have to be shut down prior to remove that part. That way when you have to replace or add a new breaker you only shut down the main switch and do the work safely. When you have a sub-panel w/o a main switch you have to shut down at the source for any work.
Mario
Start my Festool adventure buying the DF 500 & CT-26
Following by the TS-55 with FS-1400 LR32 & ETC EC 125
Pulled the trigger on the OF 1400 and the LR32 system
Need a longer rail FS-1900 & RO 90
and finally the KS-120

Offline Vondawg

  • Posts: 214
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2018, 06:54 AM »
Well I’ll just say...great job! Love the different color wires and neat work...makes for quick/easy identification and I’d love to have two different circuits in each box
There are no mistakes....just new designs.

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3612
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2018, 08:58 AM »
Great job, Mario!!!  I like a neatly wired panel.   [smile]

Be careful with the radiant heater. The thin pull cord could break after heavy use and trying to attach a new cord is not as easy as you may think.

I'd suggest that you consider switching the receptacles that the heaters are plugged into using switches with pilot lights that indicate that the receptacles are hot, and just don't use the pull cords on the heaters.  Just a thought...   [smile]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 155
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2018, 10:05 AM »
The beauty of this is that now you have that sub panel permanently installed it provided an electrical hub in that space forever. It is a bit more expensive to bring the big wires over that will feed a 100a sub panel as well as the mains for the sub and the panel but once it’s there it’s there. Now changes in the shop space going forward are easy and don’t require fishing from basements, trenching across yards, etc.. So much better to do it this way right from the start. In my case my shop is in my attached garage and the space was already finished when we moved in so my panel is surface mounted and all of the wiring is in surface mounted conduit. I was able to find an electrician who was willing to work with me. I told him what I wanted, he designed it and he trenched (rather then going up into the attic and all the way across the house)(no basements in Southeast Texas), pulled the feeds, mounted and electrified the sub panel. Then he bent and mounted the (oversized for future needs) conduits (I helped). He laid out the branches for me complete with wire sizes, etc. and I pulled the wires. He came back the next week and did the final. I think that the whole job cost me $1,000 US ten years ago. I have had to make a couple of minor changes since then but when electricians show up they don’t have to charge me much because everything they need is right there. I have so many 20 amp electrical outlets (gfci protected) that it usually makes them laugh.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 4819
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2018, 10:56 AM »
According to electrical code locally we are unable to bundle wires for any significant distance and if they are bundled you have to reduce the load on the wires (presumably for fire reasons). 

That's the reason I staple the wires next to each other rather than on top of each other.


Looks good Mario...I rather like the red thing blue thing, that makes it easier to see the separate circuits. This attached photo is of 2 circuits that run around the entire shop. It's very difficult to tell them apart.  [sad]

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 146
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2018, 04:15 PM »
I tried to find red and blue NM-B in the US, nothing even shows it exist.  So I'm going to guess Canada is messing with us and it's all a hoax  [tongue] .

I've give all my circuits designators and write on them with sharpies in various spots so it's easier to know what is what.  If I was building house from scratch, I wouldn't use any NM-B, everything would be in conduit.  I run conduits for everything else. Garage and such, and many electrical panels.

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3612
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2018, 05:42 PM »
I have so many 20 amp electrical outlets (gfci protected) that it usually makes them laugh.

My place was already wired with 12 gauge Romex when I bought it.  That said, I've had to change all the devices (receptacles and switches) from stab-ins to screw-down terminals all rated at 20 amps.  The stab-ins lose their spring tension over time, plus the contact area is minimal, both leading to high-resistance connections, as in heat, possibly leading to a fire. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 155
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2018, 07:38 PM »
For many other types of hobbyists a thing like wiring your workspace with “enhanced” electrical supply might seem unsexy and maybe even downright boring. For us, not so much! I’ve had four shop spaces in my life. Number one was a spare bedroom with two 15 amp plugs that were both on the same circuit. The second was a one car garage with about the same amount of available electricity. By the third shop space I had enough resources to do it better and by the fourth I was able to really do it right. That has allowed me to buy the tools and equipment that I wanted as well as the climate control I needed to stay comfortable and keep all of those tools safe from the ravages of temperature fluctuations and humidity. Also lighting, dust control, etc. etc.. proper electrical is such a big deal. Congratulations Mario! It looks great and I know you will really enjoy the flexibility and climate control that it will allow you to create! Alan

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 510
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2018, 05:49 PM »
Well I’ll just say...great job! Love the different color wires and neat work...makes for quick/easy identification and I’d love to have two different circuits in each box

Thank you, I consider the splitted outlets a necessity where ever you can. You have to run three wires cables but it`s worth IMO.

Great job, Mario!!!  I like a neatly wired panel.   [smile]

Be careful with the radiant heater. The thin pull cord could break after heavy use and trying to attach a new cord is not as easy as you may think.

I'd suggest that you consider switching the receptacles that the heaters are plugged into using switches with pilot lights that indicate that the receptacles are hot, and just don't use the pull cords on the heaters.  Just a thought...   [smile]

Thank you, this is a great idea Willy.

Mario
Start my Festool adventure buying the DF 500 & CT-26
Following by the TS-55 with FS-1400 LR32 & ETC EC 125
Pulled the trigger on the OF 1400 and the LR32 system
Need a longer rail FS-1900 & RO 90
and finally the KS-120

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 510
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2018, 05:56 PM »
That's the reason I staple the wires next to each other rather than on top of each other.


Looks good Mario...I rather like the red thing blue thing, that makes it easier to see the separate circuits. This attached photo is of 2 circuits that run around the entire shop. It's very difficult to tell them apart.  [sad]

Thank you, the way you did it is how it`s normally done. Not the neat of course  [wink]

I tried to find red and blue NM-B in the US, nothing even shows it exist.  So I'm going to guess Canada is messing with us and it's all a hoax  [tongue] .

I've give all my circuits designators and write on them with sharpies in various spots so it's easier to know what is what.  If I was building house from scratch, I wouldn't use any NM-B, everything would be in conduit.  I run conduits for everything else. Garage and such, and many electrical panels.

I used to use wire markers and they were 15$ a booklet
Mario
Start my Festool adventure buying the DF 500 & CT-26
Following by the TS-55 with FS-1400 LR32 & ETC EC 125
Pulled the trigger on the OF 1400 and the LR32 system
Need a longer rail FS-1900 & RO 90
and finally the KS-120

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 146
Re: Powering the shop
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2018, 10:20 PM »
I've give all my circuits designators and write on them with sharpies in various spots so it's easier to know what is what.

I used to use wire markers and they were 15$ a booklet

I use the printed sticker books for work in the Panel,  but everyplace else I just sharpie, on the wires, once they are in the J-Box I re-mark them because the markings probably where on the cut off bit.  I write them on the side of the J-box.  If a cable is running thru a space and it's not obvious I'll mark it just so someone long from now can know without having to pull out tools to detect which circuit it goes too.