Author Topic: walnut- plane first then size or what?  (Read 2415 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline UncleJoe

  • Posts: 128
walnut- plane first then size or what?
« on: August 24, 2017, 09:53 PM »
I am working for the first time with a new 13 inch planner and a project out of walnut.  I have some 9 inch boards, 4/4 that are 8 ft long. Is it better to rip them for face frame pieces then plane them to thickness or plane them then rip?

i figured you folks would know best

thanks for any advice you may have
I am not young enough to know everything!

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1061
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2017, 10:33 PM »
Plane then rip.

Online RobBob

  • Posts: 1139
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2017, 10:39 PM »
Generally speaking, smaller boards are easier to handle.  Cut to 1/2" over final length and 1/8" over final width and thickness.

Then joint, then plane.  Watch parts one and two:



« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 11:11 PM by RobBob »

Online #Tee

  • Posts: 773
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2017, 12:55 AM »
im on the plane then rip camp.
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

IG: tee212

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4594
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2017, 07:01 AM »
I will talk about lumber that is straight line ripped one edge and skip planed at least one side as I believe thats what the OP most likely has. I doubt he has lumber truly in the rough, if that's the case watch the wood processing video.

Please don't cut to length first when using a little lunch box planer, even with a Byrd head you are taking a chance. Some say cut to length plus 1/2" before planing, in my shop that's wrong.

Ever use a lunch box planer? The chances are you are going to get blow out or snipe and if you cut to length plus 1/2" it's inevitable one piece may become scrap. 1/2" is not enough to account for mishaps.

I have a 5HP 20" helix planer and I can tell you when I get lumber 14 feet long, I plane the entire board first. Then, Ill cut the parts to length and finally, use the side that is straight line ripped from the lumber yard up against the fence on my table saw to cut the other side.


« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 07:04 AM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4076
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2017, 09:28 AM »
I face, plane other side, run through slr or gang rip.

Then moulder, or back to planer. 

I never cut to length, unless I am defecting lumber. 

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 10789
  • Let's Redux / Revive / Rewind / Rollback the FOG!
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2017, 10:08 AM »
Plane first.  As others have said in their own words - get the possible snipe on as few boards as possible - then move on.

I learned the hard way, but at least the ruined boards were partially used for smoking food.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Online HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 555
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2017, 12:44 PM »
Here's what I would do for a relatively light cabinetry or woodworking project.

First, don't plane a board if you aren't going to use all of it at the same thickness.  It doesn't make sense to plane a 8' board if you are only using 4'.  (Always observe your planer's minimum length requirement.)

My general principle is that I want to power plane the wood as long and thick as possible, but there are some good reasons to cut to rough length first.  For instance:
*  Evaluate how wonky the wood is.  If it is relatively straight - e.g. minimal bow, twist, and cupping, go ahead and plane first.  If you can't get the thickness you want without cutting to length, then cut to rough length (finish + snipe length) to get more thickness, and then plane.
*  Do you need to work around defects that you don't want in your project?  Since I have about 1000 feet of #3 common cherry in my basement, I do this a lot.  If you are using FAS, or if you want to integrate the "defects" into your project, you don't have to worry about this step.  Bear in mind that in woodworking, one man's defect is another man's feature.

After you get the pieces you want planed to thickness, then do all of the final machining - ripping, cutting to length, etc.  You can sand or (hand) plane smooth as needed after that - exactly when often depends on what the assembly looks like.  I like to smooth as much after assembly as possible, but sometimes you have to do it before to get at corners, tight spaces, etc.  For example, I always smooth a table top before assembling it to the base.

My caveat - this fits my tools and the kinds of projects that I do.  Other patterns of work may be a better fit for your projects or tools.  For example, a professional cabinet maker would probably work very differently - an efficient, fast processes, specialized tools, and no #3 common.

Online RobBob

  • Posts: 1139
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2017, 07:38 PM »
I've never had snipe.  Ever.  So, yeah, I guess you guys that do have snipe have to use a different work flow.  Must be a hassle.

As mentioned above, I rip material to rough size, crosscut to rough length and then flatten one face on the jointer and then joint one edge. I've had too many times where a board has some type of internal stress that causes movement and I have to machine the board again.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 08:15 PM by RobBob »

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1061
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2017, 07:56 PM »
Even if there is no snipe. Why cut it on short pieces, feed into the planner one by one catching each on the other side if you can shove the entire piece once. If you are making multiple passes on your planner, well, multiply that by the number of passes. Simple matter of efficiency.
In addition, it is after planing that you can clearly see the grain pattern. Important when making furniture. Only then you decide how to partition your board.
Of coarse, if your lumber is crooked than its another story.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 07:58 PM by Svar »

Online RobBob

  • Posts: 1139
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2017, 08:05 PM »
Assuming rough lumber, planing first is clearly wrong.  You should at least face joint first, then plane.

However, not everyone has a wide jointer, which is another reason to cut to rough size first.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 08:33 PM by RobBob »

Offline RDMuller

  • Posts: 254
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2017, 08:43 PM »
I am amazed that very few respondents have used the word "join" to first get a smooth side for referencing.  I always use an 8 " joiner to flatten one side.   Do I rip first?  Probably to something like 4" if my target rails and styles are something say under 2 inches.  I want to release as many tensions that are in the wood as possible that cause wood to warp, twist etc. 

So my logical order might be
1.  Get a straight edge on the piece if necessary with the guide rail saw
2.  Narrow pieces down to something like 4 to 6" by ripping.  This is the oversize width of multiple pieces
3.  Join to get one smooth side to reference   --- don't have a joiner?  Use the 13" thickness planer by hot glueing wooden shims underneath one side to allow smooth transfer, join the top
4.  Flip -- then plane what was the bottom side.  Knock off or plane off the shims
5.  Probably recut a straight edge with the track saw to resquare
6.  Final rip to width

Commercial planers used in sawmills frequently have planers that do both sides at once.  This works well a creating 2 sides that are parallel -- but not necessarily flat.   They get by most of the time.

Online RobBob

  • Posts: 1139
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2017, 08:59 PM »
A joiner is a person.  A jointer is a machine or hand tool.

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4594
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2017, 10:18 PM »
Yes, but a joiner is also a tool. A plate joiner, commonly know as a biscuit joiner is a tool and called joiner for short in a shop where they do biscuits as a rule. They just say hand me the joiner.

But yeah in the previous description it's all wrong, definitely is referring to a jointer. Makes a guy wonder
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3709
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2017, 03:27 AM »
I am working for the first time with a new 13 inch planner and a project out of walnut.  I have some 9 inch boards, 4/4 that are 8 ft long. Is it better to rip them for face frame pieces then plane them to thickness or plane them then rip?

i figured you folks would know best

thanks for any advice you may have

As the boards are a lot bigger than the stock you want to create there will be a risk of the wood bending as the stresses are released. For this reason I would recommend that you rough saw first producing pieces that are over size to allow for straightening on the jointer.

So, resaw the wood and, if you can, leave it for a couple of weeks or as long as you are able to allow the stresses to be relieved. Then select the straighter pieces as the long elements for your project. Those pieces which are more bent should be used for the shorter pieces and cut to approximate length before going to the jointer (you lose less wood that way).

I have just planed up some oak boards that I will be using for a bunch of drawer fronts. The sawn size was about 28 mm thick. I kept the sawn wood in the workshop (it is closer to house humidity than the timber yard) for about 4 weeks. I have now planed the boards straight and true to 20 mm thickness. I will keep them again for at least another week before taking them down to the final thickness of 16 mm.

I have also just worked on the chestnut for the drawer sides and backs. This started as 16 mm thick boards 1.6m long and some as wide as 70 cm. This wood has been kept in a friend's workshop (similar humidity to mine) for about 5 years and so I am taking that down to the finished 10 mm thickness in one go.

Peter

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3531
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2017, 06:51 AM »
For me, I always have to work within a small space.  I cannot manuver a board longer than 12 feet into my shop.  Where i have my planer set up. I can plane boards as long as 12 feet, but I have to be a contortionist to do that. I can uncomfrotably plane boards as long as 8 feet if not too thick (thicker=heavier).  Even tho there is going to be waste, i cut to length allowing for a minimum of snipe.  By taking smaller bites with the planer, I eliminate nearly all of snipe. I get all on my lumber rough, so my first step is to
rough cut to length first
plane both sides to 1/8 or 1/4 thicker than final. 
rip one edge straight with track saw
if boards are short enough, i rip the other edge parallel
if boards are longer, i rip parallel with track saw.
I stack for a few days using stickers to keep flat.
If any twisting after stickering, i will either repile or using wedges, will plane to final thickness
start final milling inc cut to length and ripping to final widths

if undo twisting after stikering, set aside for a smaller project.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 141
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2017, 09:10 AM »
When you plane a rough board before cutting pieces from it you will waste much more stock since the degree of warp, twist, etc are always greater over longer lengths.  I first rough cut pieces about 1/2" longer than needed and taking account of defects needing to be cut out.  Then joint one face and one edge, plane to finished thickness plus about 0.005", rip (on the bandsaw unless pieces are very long) to finished width plus 1/64" and one pass of the sawn edge over the jointer (which I keep set to take 1/64") then cut both ends to obtain finished length.  I cut both ends at this point since the machining done since rough cut will likely leave the rough cuts not plumb or square.

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4076
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2017, 09:34 AM »
That's why you face rough lumber first.
Then I plane other side.
Then when stock is close to consistasnt thickness it can go through slr and gang rip.

It either goes into moulder or gets planed from there.

I take 1/8" passes in planer, on or two times and I am done.

I never run cut to length parts through shaper or moulder.

Cutting to final dimensions is done after machining.

Offline UncleJoe

  • Posts: 128
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2017, 11:09 PM »
Thanks to all for the great advice on planing

I have black walnut faced on one side and straight line ripped. Today I planed a 10 inch board and then ripped it for the face frame. I never worked with any wood better than the oak they sell at Lowes. This is a whole new world and I love the look of that walnut coming out of the planer.

Last week I made a test cut to see how I would rip the 1.5" face frame for this piece of furniture. My saw had a rough go of it. I cleaned the blade and it still had a hard time. So I came here to the FOG to gain some reading wisdom. I finally realized that my blade has never been sharpened and while it was cutting plywood ok the Walnut proved to much. So I picked up a new blade and the 28 tooth universal blade. As the kids would say OMG!!!! It was like a new saw. The universal blade cut through the walnut like butter and the finish was spectacular. I will sand it but I probably could just stain it and go. I guess I just got used to the old blade. I will send it out for sharpening so I have a fresh spare

Again, thanks for all your help and advice.

Uncle Joe
I am not young enough to know everything!

Offline GravyBones

  • Posts: 27
  • TheBlessedEarth.com - Vintage Art
    • Vintage Art Portfolio
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2017, 12:51 AM »
What I do...If you have a jointer, face joint one wide face...then plane other side until you get to your thickness...then joint an edge...and use that jointed edge against your fence to rip to your desired width.
Vintage Art - TheBlessedEarth.com

Software Developer by day - Vintage Artist all other times.

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3327
Re: walnut- plane first then size or what?
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2017, 08:32 AM »
I'm in the camp that planes both sides, but well oversized, then rack the planed pieces for a week or two in a conditioned space to let them adjust to having been planed and letting out the stresses.  Only then comes the final planing to size and jointing/ripping.  I've had too many boards that "self-adjusted" after having been planed to size which necessitated a restart with more lumber.  YMMV...
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young