Festool Owners Group

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS => Workshops and Mobile Vehicle-Based Shops => Topic started by: jmbfestool on January 13, 2016, 09:33 AM

Title: I want one....
Post by: jmbfestool on January 13, 2016, 09:33 AM
Ive been looking at clamps and clamping systems.

I like this one! I like the versatility.  From Clamping frames to clamping carcases.

Only takes up 800mm in depth. 

http://youtu.be/v2FtC81zpSk


Does any one know another good system i could look at. 
Does any  one know where i can get this in the UK.

Its bloody expensive so im only thinking about it.

I am pondering the idea of building my own because how expensive this system is.

Im sure i could make it all for a 1/3 of the price.


Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: KescoNY on January 13, 2016, 09:48 AM
Awesome idea...
i wonder if they can be shop built on a wall out of mdf panels with 20mm holes so you can have as many panels as your space will allow for production work
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: neeleman on January 13, 2016, 10:36 AM
Maybe you can use a few of these oil bottle jacks and connect it with a baseplate to a vertical kind of MFT plate with holes.
Cheap ones are made in PRC and cost very little these days (€12).
(https://www.sybshop.nl/webshop/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/265x265/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/o/potkrik_20_ton.jpg)
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: KescoNY on January 13, 2016, 11:49 AM
Maybe you can use a few of these air bottle Jacks and fix it with a baseplate to a vertical kind of MFT plate with holes.
Cheap ones are made in PRC and cost very little these days (€12).
(https://www.sybshop.nl/webshop/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/265x265/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/o/potkrik_20_ton.jpg)

Few of the cheaper ones i used tend to creep down under low pressure but i was thinking something similar or even incorporating a porta power using 1 pump on multiple rams to even out the pressure   
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: jmbfestool on January 13, 2016, 01:01 PM
Maybe you can use a few of these air bottle Jacks and fix it with a baseplate to a vertical kind of MFT plate with holes.
Cheap ones are made in PRC and cost very little these days (€12).
(https://www.sybshop.nl/webshop/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/265x265/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/o/potkrik_20_ton.jpg)

Hey they are cheap like that idea.

Im leaning more and more towards a self build.

I just cant get my self to spend so much on one.

It looks amazing and I would love one but why is is soooooo expensive.



 
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Thunderchyld on January 13, 2016, 01:43 PM
I've been looking for another manufacturer as well, no such luck here.  Some metalworking tables that are similar but make the Barth look cheap. 

Bit of a project to put one together, but it's a fun idea.  Might have to start working on a design, make it the first big project once I finally purchase a full size CNC router.  Upgrading my shop and making room for either a 4x8 or 5x10' CNC table and related accoutrements is on the list, but there's two remodels and a screen porch I have to get done for family before I can work on my own stuff, lol.

Have you seen the RPG-V model?  It combines the regular table with a flip up vacuum press.  No clue on what they want for that one, lol.  Not like the regular multi is cheap, starts at $8,000 or so, keeps going up and up as you add more clamps and accessories.  I can't remember where I saw the figure, but the rack, cart and all the extra clamps shown in the video have a grand total somewhere north of $30,000.
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: jmac80 on January 13, 2016, 01:53 PM
Festool MFW - Multi Function Wall
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Kev on January 13, 2016, 11:34 PM
I can actually see JMB making his own ... probably three times the height and doubles as his reconfigurable rock climbing wall [big grin] [wink]
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: jmbfestool on January 14, 2016, 07:27 AM
I can actually see JMB making his own ... probably three times the height and doubles as his reconfigurable rock climbing wall [big grin] [wink]

lol loving the rock climing function.


One of the things I would like is more heigh actually..  The Barth has a 1500mm limit height. Which isnt enough for lets say french door frames.

It can go upto 4m in length but unless i wanna make french doors for people of MY height i needs it to be taller.

2.4m clamping height would be ideal.  So I will be looking at desiging something with that in mind.
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Charlie Mac on January 14, 2016, 07:40 AM
Couldn't you orient the door horizontally for clamping?
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: jmbfestool on January 14, 2016, 08:16 AM
Couldn't you orient the door horizontally for clamping?


Its not the door its the frame.

Example I made a a few doors this weeks and one of the frames for the pair of doors was 1600x 2090.

I wouldnt be able to clampe the frame because its clamping limit 1500 in heigh.

Most french doors are atleast 2000 in height and width is normal atleast 1500+mm

Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Charlie Mac on January 14, 2016, 09:20 AM
OK, Gotcha.
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Kev on January 14, 2016, 05:02 PM
I'm thinking maybe a style of heavy gauge perforated steel sheet with a suitable hole pattern. Not only useful for clamping ... Could also be used as shelf bracket supports [big grin]
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Alan m on January 14, 2016, 08:17 PM
that's pretty cool
but for 30,000 for a full set . I would think your mad
you could build a whole array of dedicated assembly jigs and tables and a shed to put them in for that money
im sure you will build it for 10k or less.
a lot of the features are only showing off features that you could do cheaper other ways .
like gluing up worktops or wider boards

Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Kev on January 14, 2016, 08:43 PM
that's pretty cool
but for 30,000 for a full set . I would think your mad
you could build a whole array of dedicated assembly jigs and tables and a shed to put them in for that money
im sure you will build it for 10k or less.
a lot of the features are only showing off features that you could do cheaper other ways .
like gluing up worktops or wider boards

I think it's a classic case of it being a niche product and having the typical niche price!

The thing in my mind is that your expensive station is tied up till the glue dries.

... wouldn't it be cool if there was a glue that stayed "wet" until you hit it with a signal, current, activator or something ... maybe a "sonic screwdriver" [big grin] so it instantly set. That'd save some time.
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Bohdan on January 15, 2016, 02:22 AM
... wouldn't it be cool if there was a glue that stayed "wet" until you hit it with a signal, current, activator or something ... maybe a "sonic screwdriver" [big grin] so it instantly set. That'd save some time.

In the early days of microwave (as in like a microwave oven) development I worked next door to a factory that welded thin sheets of plastic to produce things like raincoats. This was a large machine that on any particular cold morning would be surrounded by a happy bunch of women warming up their rears, by pressing them against the machine, while it welded away.

Nobody had heard of microwave radiation leakage or of its effects.

Microwave activated glues are a dim distant glow in the deep dark corners of my memory. I would think that they were abandoned for general woodworking use because of the difficulty of preventing the radiation leakage from cooking the operators but I do seem to remember that they worked very well and were very quick.
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Nippychippy on January 15, 2016, 02:24 AM
that's pretty cool
but for 30,000 for a full set . I would think your mad
you could build a whole array of dedicated assembly jigs and tables and a shed to put them in for that money
im sure you will build it for 10k or less.
a lot of the features are only showing off features that you could do cheaper other ways .
like gluing up worktops or wider boards

I think it's a classic case of it being a niche product and having the typical niche price!

The thing in my mind is that your expensive station is tied up till the glue dries.

... wouldn't it be cool if there was a glue that stayed "wet" until you hit it with a signal, current, activator or something ... maybe a "sonic screwdriver" [big grin] so it instantly set. That'd save some time.

Funny you should say that Kev because they are developing and wood fusion system seen it on YouTube a few months ago it's based on metal fusion welding it's crazy it turns your joined piece  it one solid piece
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Nippychippy on January 15, 2016, 02:28 AM
Here's one link http://youtu.be/X0k04hjdYuQ
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: jmbfestool on January 15, 2016, 02:50 AM
that's pretty cool
but for 30,000 for a full set . I would think your mad
you could build a whole array of dedicated assembly jigs and tables and a shed to put them in for that money
im sure you will build it for 10k or less.
a lot of the features are only showing off features that you could do cheaper other ways .
like gluing up worktops or wider boards

I think it's a classic case of it being a niche product and having the typical niche price!

The thing in my mind is that your expensive station is tied up till the glue dries.

... wouldn't it be cool if there was a glue that stayed "wet" until you hit it with a signal, current, activator or something ... maybe a "sonic screwdriver" [big grin] so it instantly set. That'd save some time.




You on about this kinda wood welder?? I wanted to buy one a couple years ago but that is another tool which isnt that cheap.  Only works with water based glues

My mate has one. He got his for £100 or from a company going under.  Jammy buggar


http://youtu.be/Wie-4-rIrJ8
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: jmbfestool on January 15, 2016, 03:01 AM
that's pretty cool
but for 30,000 for a full set . I would think your mad
you could build a whole array of dedicated assembly jigs and tables and a shed to put them in for that money
im sure you will build it for 10k or less.
a lot of the features are only showing off features that you could do cheaper other ways .
like gluing up worktops or wider boards

I know mental how much it cost when you add it all up.

Ive decided 100% to build my own.   I would have considered buying it if it was £6-7k with all accesories included.  Im sure many more people would be it.

Ive got a couple of welders and an aswome welding mask i bought.
[attachimg=1]


So ill get onto welding some box section frame for the rear when i get time.
and get some box section with holes in and see how much £££ to have 6mm steel with holes costs or might just use 30mm birch and cnc the holes my self or maybe alluminium but thats expensive.

Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Upscale on January 15, 2016, 03:52 AM
[quote author=jmbfestool
Ive decided 100% to build my own.   I would have considered buying it if it was £6-7k with all accessories included.  I'm sure many more people would be it.

I've got a couple of welders and an awsome welding mask i bought. [/quote]

Sure, you might be saving money on material by building one yourself, but you're putting in the labor building it and that has to be worth something too.
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: jmbfestool on January 15, 2016, 04:38 AM
[quote author=jmbfestool
Ive decided 100% to build my own.   I would have considered buying it if it was £6-7k with all accessories included.  I'm sure many more people would be it.

I've got a couple of welders and an awsome welding mask i bought.

Sure, you might be saving money on material by building one yourself, but you're putting in the labor building it and that has to be worth something too.
[/quote]


Yes thats very true!
However i believe material cost will be £2000 at most.  My dad isnt very good pratically but he can weld. Im pretty crap at it im still learning.  So i can get my Dad to do all the welding.... free

His job isnt very hands on so he loves working with his hands when hes off for a month at a time.  All i have to is design it for him and cut all the steel correct angles and sizes because hes not very pratical like that.

but still i dont think it would take that long to make it all and i would be saving well over 10k

If it took me a week to do i dont earn 10k a week lol
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Charlie Mac on January 15, 2016, 07:36 AM
I don't know where the 30K figure came from but this is what's showing in the US. It's still not tall enough for JMB and it looks like the package doesn't include everything shown in the video annnd the accessories are costly but it's a lot less than 30K.
Rangate Link (http://rangate.com/products/barth-multipress-rpg-l)

* Edit: It's really not clear what's included as far as accessories.
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Thunderchyld on January 15, 2016, 08:19 AM
Charlie, I'll do some digging, see if I can't find the info link I got the number from. 

From the summary I was reading a few months back, the initial price is just the frame and table, zero clamping elements.  Each of the uprights is $600 or $1500, depending on rack and pinion or hydraulic, $3500 for the lateral press portion, $500 per for each rack and pinion plug(of which the video shows 8 at one time) $4000 for the equipment cart, and so on. 
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Charlie Mac on January 15, 2016, 12:58 PM
I think that if it came with nothing, that would end my consideration of investing in it.
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Nippychippy on January 15, 2016, 01:19 PM
that's pretty cool
but for 30,000 for a full set . I would think your mad
you could build a whole array of dedicated assembly jigs and tables and a shed to put them in for that money
im sure you will build it for 10k or less.
a lot of the features are only showing off features that you could do cheaper other ways .
like gluing up worktops or wider boards

I think it's a classic case of it being a niche product and having the typical niche price!

The thing in my mind is that your expensive station is tied up till the glue dries.

... wouldn't it be cool if there was a glue that stayed "wet" until you hit it with a signal, current, activator or something ... maybe a "sonic screwdriver" [big grin] so it instantly set. That'd save some time.




You on about this kinda wood welder?? I wanted to buy one a couple years ago but that is another tool which isnt that cheap.  Only works with water based glues

My mate has one. He got his for £100 or from a company going under.  Jammy buggar


http://youtu.be/Wie-4-rIrJ8


That's the one I was Looking for jmb. You pal was a lucky bugger
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Upscale on January 15, 2016, 02:56 PM
Quote from: jmbfestool
Yes thats very true!
However i believe material cost will be £2000 at most.  My dad isnt very good pratically but he can weld. Im pretty crap at it im still learning.  So i can get my Dad to do all the welding.... free

His job isnt very hands on so he loves working with his hands when hes off for a month at a time.  All i have to is design it for him and cut all the steel correct angles and sizes because hes not very pratical like that.

but still i dont think it would take that long to make it all and i would be saving well over 10k

If it took me a week to do i dont earn 10k a week lol

Anyone know if the base sheet with all the holes is aluminum or steel? How readily are sheets like that available? And, when you finally get your hands on one, you lose half your mind drilling 5,000 holes in it.   :)
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Charlie Mac on January 15, 2016, 04:51 PM
From the Rangate site (although the holes don't look like 2mm):

Product Description

The perforated plate is made of solid 6mm steel, with 2mm holes at precise 50mm intervals. There's enough flexibility to support and press any shape or curve you can glue. Optional rack and pinion press elements can slot right into the plate like a pegboard, and exert pressure at any position and angle your workpiece needs.
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: jmbfestool on January 15, 2016, 05:20 PM
From the Rangate site (although the holes don't look like 2mm):

Product Description

The perforated plate is made of solid 6mm steel, with 2mm holes at precise 50mm intervals. There's enough flexibility to support and press any shape or curve you can glue. Optional rack and pinion press elements can slot right into the plate like a pegboard, and exert pressure at any position and angle your workpiece needs.


I tottally agree when i read 2mm my first thought was no way do they look like 2mm holes.

I thought might be miss type and they meant 20mm
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Kev on January 15, 2016, 06:24 PM
From the Rangate site (although the holes don't look like 2mm):

Product Description

The perforated plate is made of solid 6mm steel, with 2mm holes at precise 50mm intervals. There's enough flexibility to support and press any shape or curve you can glue. Optional rack and pinion press elements can slot right into the plate like a pegboard, and exert pressure at any position and angle your workpiece needs.


I tottally agree when i read 2mm my first thought was no way do they look like 2mm holes.

I thought might be miss type and they meant 20mm

They've got to be 20mm .. plus the "intervals" must mean 50mm between the edges of the holes, in other words 70mm centres
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Thunderchyld on January 15, 2016, 06:57 PM
Hmm, I wonder what would be cheaper, having the metals company drill the holes or taking the time and drill bits to lay out and drill em yourself?

jmb, if you want to make one a bit taller for architectural millwork and the like, one of the standard sizes of plate steel is 5 x 10 ft, I'd go three or four plates long.  Even be able to do some driveway gates on a rack that's 10'x20',  ;D
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: Kev on January 15, 2016, 08:26 PM
You wouldn't want a 10x20' plate steel wall falling on you [eek] [scared]

I'd be very curious about how much the clamping pressure would deform the holes (if at all) in 7~8mm aluminium plate.

Atlas Steel in Oz offer:

Aluminium Plate
Alloy    5005, 5052, 5083, 5186, 5454
Temper   H32, H34, H116, H321
Thickness (mm)   4 to 25
Width (mm)   1200 to 2500
Length (mm)   2400 to 12000, Customer specific length
Finish   Mill, Customer specific finish,
Coating   PE Coating (not standard)
Plasma profile   To customer drawings

... you'd just need a frame and some very accurate hole drilling - imagine drilling a hole in the wrong spot of your 2500x5000 aluminium plate [crying]
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: jmbfestool on January 16, 2016, 04:06 AM
You wouldn't want a 10x20' plate steel wall falling on you [eek] [scared]

I'd be very curious about how much the clamping pressure would deform the holes (if at all) in 7~8mm aluminium plate.

Atlas Steel in Oz offer:

Aluminium Plate
Alloy    5005, 5052, 5083, 5186, 5454
Temper   H32, H34, H116, H321
Thickness (mm)   4 to 25
Width (mm)   1200 to 2500
Length (mm)   2400 to 12000, Customer specific length
Finish   Mill, Customer specific finish,
Coating   PE Coating (not standard)
Plasma profile   To customer drawings

... you'd just need a frame and some very accurate hole drilling - imagine drilling a hole in the wrong spot of your 2500x5000 aluminium plate [crying]

Good thing about aluminium I  can do it on my cnc.

I might do it with 30mm birch ply.

Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: jmbfestool on January 16, 2016, 04:13 AM
Hmm, I wonder what would be cheaper, having the metals company drill the holes or taking the time and drill bits to lay out and drill em yourself?

jmb, if you want to make one a bit taller for architectural millwork and the like, one of the standard sizes of plate steel is 5 x 10 ft, I'd go three or four plates long.  Even be able to do some driveway gates on a rack that's 10'x20',  ;D


Funny you mention driveway gates. I just started doing one last week. 
Cantiliver... welded two existing gates together onto rail.  With angle iron welded on top for when i get round fitting top wheel supports.

Just gotta attach rack and pinion and motor and a post on the closing side.

Excuse the welding i had a few goes. After my dad decided I would be best practesing on scrap lol haahaa
Plus using the old welder and 25year old welding rods was pretty much impossible eventually welded 60% of it decided to buy a new welder and welding rods.  Man the difference!!! So much easier.
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: J@mes on January 17, 2016, 06:20 AM
Similar clamping systems like that come up various auction sites 2nd hand for a fraction of the cost. Not as sophisticated but maybe a good basis to adapt to work for you.
Nice to have the capability to clamp door frames but not that necassary as everyone seems to use screws to pull the joint up tight whilst the glue goes off.
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: HAXIT on December 11, 2016, 10:12 PM
You wouldn't want a 10x20' plate steel wall falling on you [eek] [scared]

I'd be very curious about how much the clamping pressure would deform the holes (if at all) in 7~8mm aluminium plate.

Atlas Steel in Oz offer:

Aluminium Plate
Alloy    5005, 5052, 5083, 5186, 5454
Temper   H32, H34, H116, H321
Thickness (mm)   4 to 25
Width (mm)   1200 to 2500
Length (mm)   2400 to 12000, Customer specific length
Finish   Mill, Customer specific finish,
Coating   PE Coating (not standard)
Plasma profile   To customer drawings

... you'd just need a frame and some very accurate hole drilling - imagine drilling a hole in the wrong spot of your 2500x5000 aluminium plate [crying]

Good thing about aluminium I  can do it on my cnc.

I might do it with 30mm birch ply.
Before aluminium or brich ply, try Panzerholz. If you have never heard the name, I am going to make it easy for you.
Just give them a call for pricing and info.
http://www.ltlewis.co.uk/b15.htm
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: RickyL on January 01, 2017, 06:44 AM
Panzeholz is a good shout, as an engineer of steel rather than wood in my day job.

If you can afford the weight, mild steel would be great for cost and strength. But stupidly heavy. 5000 x 2500 would be around 1000kg.

The best way would be to get it laser cut, in smaller sections. Then if wear, corrosion, damage occurs you can replace that section.

2400 x 1200mm sheets are standard, so that would be a good size for the height. Next size up is 3000mm x 1500mm. With the laser we can hold around 0.1 to 0.2mm accuracy on holes at 20mm for round/taper. But you could chase them through with a drill pretty quickly.

You would then just have in each corner some countersunk allen heads to bolt each panel into your frame.
Title: Re: I want one....
Post by: PreferrablyWood on January 01, 2017, 07:26 AM
Fascinated by this idea. But the cost and the weight are crazy. I think perhaps just situation specific solutions could be found. Holding band clamps, Pin nailers instead of clamping where the surface is painted or heavily finished. Maybe just welding up a purpose built frame in metal for a serial production run of oversized pieces. Just a set of good normal sided clamps and a hardwood table with lots of dogholes..