Author Topic: Moisture In WorkShop  (Read 3240 times)

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Offline Jmacpherson

  • Posts: 131
Moisture In WorkShop
« on: September 05, 2017, 06:50 AM »
Hi
Hope I'm in the right area of the forum?

Need some advice to combat moisture in my garage/potential work space please.
Note - I'm in the the southern hemisphere so no snow or minus figures etc.

Problem is our garage is below street level and probably 2x owners before us did the excavation/reno and went below the water table.
The floor slopes towards the middle from the sides and from back to front towards the garage door. Outside the garage door/bottom of driveway there is drainage etc. which leads to a sump and pump etc.
There are channels around the garage floor which also assist with water drainage should the need arise.
Walls and floor are concrete.

Everything is stored in shelves off the ground in toolboxes or plastic containers. The tool boxes have silica bags inside them.

Question, if I store my systainers in this situation either on the floor or shelves with silica bags would they be fine?

Question, my old mitre saw developed a little bit of fine surface rust on the glide arms. How do I avoid that on my new Kapex (currently in the garage) - I was given the suggestion of some spray like wd-40 or the likes?

Question, if I move my MFT/3 into the garage any tips to look after it?
I was thinking of rubber mats under the feet of the MFT as a start? Would I need to do anything with the top, I have other mdf off cuts stored in the garage and they seem fine?

Last question, currently the shelving is "open", so just some brackets with pine boards. Would an all round unit be better with wood backing against the wall, wood sides, wood doors etc. or better to have the air flowing around?

Thanks

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 383
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2017, 09:10 AM »
Regarding those silica bags: their capacity is limited, so you would have te replace them with 'fresh' ones from time to time. The ones that are 'saturated' can be reconditioned by putting them in a low temperature oven and then used again.

In general a lot of moisture problems can be avoided by proper ventilation. A system that dehumidifies the processed air would be ideal.

Edit: typo - oven
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 05:20 AM by Bert Vanderveen »
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

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Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 267
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2017, 10:40 AM »
I am an "expert" in this matter (learned the hard way, that is  [big grin]). These are my suggestions:

- Get a humidity meter (dirt cheap from ebay), actually two, one to be placed in your shop and one in your house, presumably the place where your finished builds will reside. Use the humidity info. to gauge how wet your shop is and to help you plan for wood movement when you build.

- WD40 is good IF you keep applying it to the surface areas you want protected. It loses its effect over time. A much long lasting product is http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=50252&cat=1,43415,43440 or fluid film or CRC 3-36.

- Use this with a cabinet and your tools will thank you: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=69378&cat=1,43456

- Finally, have good dust collection which is good to the health of both you and your tools.

If you have hand tools, use this too: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=68931&cat=1,43456

I live in Canada where melted snow (and hence moisture) is also present in my shop between Nov. and April or so.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 10:43 AM by ChuckM »

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1939
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2017, 09:00 PM »
Do you have a drain in there?  If so get a high capacity dehumidifier that can direct drain. Also get some bioshield for some of the other surfaces that are more susceptible to rust.

Cheers. Bryan.


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Offline cpw

  • Posts: 45
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2017, 10:29 PM »
Any suggestions on "high-capacity" dehumidifiers?  Is there actually any benefit to the whole house ones (e.g., Aprilaire) vs. portable ones?  The whole house ones seem quite a bit more expensive for the same capacity, and I'm not sure why.

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1939
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2017, 10:42 PM »
I have 2 of these...

Frigidaire FFAD7033R1 70-Pint Dehumidifier with Effortless Humidity Control, White https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UWP07LK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_I-1Rzb33RF134

One in my shop and another in the basement of a rental house I own. They allow a drain hose to connect, and pull the humidity out of the air pretty quickly. They also allow you to set your humidity level which helps.

The one in the basement has been running nonstop for about a year and that basement is more comfortable than it has ever been prior. I can't speak to whole house ones but perhaps others can.

Cheers. Bryan.


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Offline RussellS

  • Posts: 183
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2017, 01:46 AM »
I use a Sears dehumidifier in my 1200 sq ft basement.  Similar to the one in the prior link, except its simpler.  It has a dial on the front where you turn it to super dry and run all the time, or run only a little and allow some more moisture in the air.  I have it about in the middle of the dial.  Keeps my basement dry in the humid summer.  Air in winter is always dry.  Assuming you have a regular two car garage of 20x20' or 24x24', a regular dehumidifier like mine would keep it very dry very easily.  And not cost much either, purchase price or running cost.  Just connect a hose to the water collection pan and put it into a drain, and you can basically forget about it forever.  It just runs and keeps the air dry automatically.  Assuming you open the garage door once a day for a few minutes, the dehumidifier would have to dry the new moist air.  That would take an hour or so.  Maybe.  Then the air would be dry until you opened the door again.  No rust, no mold, with dry air.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 02:50 PM by RussellS »

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 267
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2017, 08:47 AM »
Indeed a good and simple solution!

Wish my garage (also my shop) could handle water in the winter...everything there freezes during the cold weeks of the winter.

Offline RussellS

  • Posts: 183
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2017, 01:48 PM »
Wish my garage (also my shop) could handle water in the winter...everything there freezes during the cold weeks of the winter.

Freezing is different than humidity in the air that a dehumidifier handles.  My shop is the basement, so no freezing.  Just humid in the summer.  Dry air in the winter.  My attached garage can get to freezing temperatures in the winter if its cold enough outside.  But its a DRY freezing temp in the garage.  Bone dry.  Its just below 32 degrees and freezing cold dry.

I would guess that all of the USA is less humid, drier during the winter months.  Even the humid states in the SE are drier in the winter months.  Not as dry as the freezing northern states, but still much drier than during the humid summer months in the SE.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 02:51 PM by RussellS »

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 267
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2017, 11:02 PM »
Not counting the extremely cold days, the normal colder days in my city are between -5C to -15C. But the problem as you rightly pointed out is not the cold but the snow. My insulated but unheated shop at night is parking for two cars. The snow brought in by the cars melts overnight (unless the outside temp. is iike -15 to -30C, before windchill) and the moisture is trapped for 10 - 18 hours till I open the shop door.

The 10" wide (?) poplar cabinet door can swell more than 1/16" before I know it.

WD40 works great in summer, because it is dry (30 to 35% humidity). Winter? The products I mentioned in the other post.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 11:04 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Goz

  • Posts: 78
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2017, 09:57 AM »
In my experience, the portable dehumidifiers (Frigidaire, LG, etc) last a year or two at best. I'm on year 3 with my Aprilaire and it's still going strong.  Up front cost is higher, but I think while house units are way better built.

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Offline Jmacpherson

  • Posts: 131
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2017, 12:41 PM »
Sorry for my delayed response.
Thanks to everyone's input, I've started looking into hygrometers to measure the moisture value and at dehumidifiers too.

There are drains directly outside the garage door and channels inside along the edges of the floor which are lower than the actual floor height so always an option.

The world is full of irony because 2 days after positing this it looks like I'm possibly getting my "dry"space back that I had to give up.

Not everything will fit in there though so I can still put all of this info to good use.

 

Offline RussellS

  • Posts: 183
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2017, 02:55 PM »
In my experience, the portable dehumidifiers (Frigidaire, LG, etc) last a year or two at best. I'm on year 3 with my Aprilaire and it's still going strong.  Up front cost is higher, but I think while house units are way better built.

My Sears dehumidifier has only been running for 23 years now.  Probably half used up by now.  I'll probably have to replace it in another 23 years.  Darn it.  Can't even make a half century!

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 582
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2017, 03:45 PM »
In my experience, the portable dehumidifiers (Frigidaire, LG, etc) last a year or two at best. I'm on year 3 with my Aprilaire and it's still going strong.  Up front cost is higher, but I think while house units are way better built.

My Sears dehumidifier has only been running for 23 years now.  Probably half used up by now.  I'll probably have to replace it in another 23 years.  Darn it.  Can't even make a half century!
In case I could get them as they had been built 23 years ago... I would buy them. The products now on the market are optimized to certainly fail a short while after warranty ran out.

The 'good old' stuff dosn't get made anymore, only planned obsolecence soon-to-be garbage as that drives future sales.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 267
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2017, 04:58 PM »


The 'good old' stuff dosn't get made anymore, only planned obsolecence soon-to-be garbage as that drives future sales.

Either that or that it is cheaper to buy a new one. My Walmart flyer lists a 3-in-1 printer for $40 Cdn (after a huge price drop of $60 or so). People will charge more than $40 to fix a computer or scanner or printer these days! And when I brought my laptop with flickering color lines to a repair shop, the technician told me it was a video card problem and told me not to waste my money on a five years old computer. Turned around, I got a new BestBuy laptop with huge discount for $399 with Windows 10 installed plus RAM and disk capacity that would make my broken laptop look like a calculator.

Offline jtmorrow

  • Posts: 36
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2017, 10:00 PM »
..everything there freezes during the cold weeks of the winter.

Haha... good one... my winter is measured in months...
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Offline RussellS

  • Posts: 183
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2017, 04:32 PM »
In case I could get them as they had been built 23 years ago... I would buy them. The products now on the market are optimized to certainly fail a short while after warranty ran out.

The 'good old' stuff dosn't get made anymore, only planned obsolecence soon-to-be garbage as that drives future sales.

I don't know if these internet forums were around 23 years ago, back in 1994.  But if they were, I am sure you would find lots and lots of people saying the current stuff in 1994 is junk, garbage, worthless, and only the "good old stuff" from 23 years earlier was quality.  Everyone looks at the world through rose tinted glasses.  Is the car or pickup you re driving today junk compared to what you were driving 23 years earlier?

Offline guitarchitect

  • Posts: 14
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2017, 01:39 PM »
I am an "expert" in this matter (learned the hard way, that is  [big grin]). These are my suggestions:

- Get a humidity meter (dirt cheap from ebay), actually two, one to be placed in your shop and one in your house, presumably the place where your finished builds will reside. Use the humidity info. to gauge how wet your shop is and to help you plan for wood movement when you build.

- WD40 is good IF you keep applying it to the surface areas you want protected. It loses its effect over time. A much long lasting product is http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=50252&cat=1,43415,43440 or fluid film or CRC 3-36.

- Use this with a cabinet and your tools will thank you: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=69378&cat=1,43456

- Finally, have good dust collection which is good to the health of both you and your tools.

If you have hand tools, use this too: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=68931&cat=1,43456

I live in Canada where melted snow (and hence moisture) is also present in my shop between Nov. and April or so.

I'm in Canada and it's incredibly dry in the winter - any tips for increasing humidity??

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 582
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2017, 04:56 AM »
I'm in Canada and it's incredibly dry in the winter - any tips for increasing humidity??
A water wall, decorative fountain or simply open vessels with water on your radiators.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 267
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2017, 12:27 PM »
Very dry here, too, in Canada.

For the house, I've installed a humidifier for the furnace system. You can find furnace humidifiers from Rona, Canadian Tire, etc. (The shop has high humidity due to snow.)

Offline bnaboatbuilder

  • Posts: 121
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2017, 12:38 PM »
A humidifier from a drug store for $20-30 can do the trick. We ran one in our daughter's room when she was little to help her when she was sick.
- John

Offline guitarchitect

  • Posts: 14
Re: Moisture In WorkShop
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2017, 01:52 PM »
Very dry here, too, in Canada.

For the house, I've installed a humidifier for the furnace system. You can find furnace humidifiers from Rona, Canadian Tire, etc. (The shop has high humidity due to snow.)

We have one of those, but the shop's a standalone building. I'll have to look into solutions for humidity control out there - most humidifiers just have on/off rather than true % control