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Author Topic: Vac Sys in North america?  (Read 21619 times)

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Offline dawosura

  • Posts: 6
Vac Sys in North america?
« on: September 09, 2010, 01:13 AM »
Hi folks,
Any news on whether the VAC SYS clamping system is going to be available in north america anytime soon? ....in another thread it was mentioned that it might happen this year.....
Otherwise it might have to be my French Connection  [wink]
D

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Offline Festool USA

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Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2010, 09:02 AM »
The latest news is that the Vac-Sys may not ever make it to the U.S. due to UL certification.

Offline dawosura

  • Posts: 6
Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2010, 10:20 AM »
Ouch. Okay, thanks.

Offline bobbobbob

  • Posts: 169
Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2010, 10:45 AM »
Das saugt die grossen!    [mad]

Offline Wood_Junkie

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2010, 11:22 AM »
Ohhh thannnnnnk goodness the UL will protect me from myself and this oh-so useful, but obviously utterly dangerous and pitifully designed pile of voltage shocking pain and dismemberment.

Everyone knows that if we were able to buy one and attempted to use it, I'd wind up vacuum suctioning my child's face to the mount and being the litigation-prone US citizen would have to sue the pants of Festool, my tool dealer, the electric company (it wouldn't be dangerous if it didn't have power, after all), and probably my neighbor across the street, just for good measure 'cuz maybe it should've been his kid that got suctioned onto the sucking-whirlwind-workbench-wonder-of-Doom!

*roll eyes*     [bite tongue]


Nothin' but love for y'all Shane & Festool!     UL nonsense just chaps my hide.

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4619
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2010, 11:23 AM »
Man I wish I had a company with absolutely no authority at all that could shape other companies selling practices. What if some day we find UL has been getting kickbacks to certify certain products? They have no legal standing and are not backed by the government, only OSHA approved, which has been found to take kickback here and there. I am not commenting on Festool at all, just that UL has a heck of a business plan and power that may or may not be deserved. They have a lot of control and are totally trusted, I wonder who looks over UL's shoulder to make sure their processes of certification are correct?

The UL Mark indicates compliance with certain Standards only. Compliance with Standards is not a legal requirement nor an indication that legal requirements have been met. So really why they carry so much weight is beyond me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwriters_Laboratories

To bad, that Vac Sys is one product I always wanted.  :)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 11:25 AM by nickao »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2010, 11:52 AM »
It's likely written into an insurance policy.


Tom

Offline Corwin

  • Posts: 2646
Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2010, 12:34 PM »
Well, I guess this will mean that we'll all have fatter wallets, as will Joe the Woodworker

Offline RL

  • Posts: 3040
Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2010, 12:38 PM »
Politely put: what a joke!

Why doesn't Festool find an alternative and competent testing body? There are several that cover the US market if that is what they are looking for. Festool are really boxing themselves into a very tight corner with the whole "UL-approved" classification that means nothing anyway to consumers. It's ridiculous that a product such as the vac-sys is unavailable in North America because a bunch of muppets refuse to stick a logo on it. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to UL's methodology and the time delay is unacceptable.

Richard.

Offline atomicmike

  • Posts: 190
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Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2010, 12:50 PM »
I'm curious... does anyone know if the Domino has UL certification? I don't see a UL certification anywhere on it, and the UL label that was in the Systainer says it is for a "Power Cord". I also don't see the Domino included in UL's listings for Festool; actually, there's a lot of tools not listed there.

Offline Ken Nagrod

  • Posts: 3438
Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2010, 02:02 PM »
Maybe Christian would be interested in a dual position, Festool executive and Underwriters Laboratories executive, unless Shane wants to do it.  That would solve most of our issues in North America.

Offline atomicmike

  • Posts: 190
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Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2010, 02:06 PM »
Maybe Christian would be interested in a dual position, Festool executive and Underwriters Laboratories executive, unless Shane wants to do it.  That would solve most of our issues in North America.

I think we'd even be fine with a few select FOGgers working on the inside at UL. Any volunteers?  [wink]

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4619
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2010, 02:13 PM »
Well, I guess this will mean that we'll all have fatter wallets, as will Joe the Woodworker.  

Already have all the Joe Woodworker stuff and use much of it everyday, it's nice, but nothing as cool as the Festool Vac Sys.  :)
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Toolfest

  • Posts: 61
Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2010, 02:24 PM »
Hi Shane. "UL certification" is given as the reason for many tools not making it to North America. What does this mean? Does it mean that it would not pass the certification process, or is it the expense of submitting it to UL for certification, or something else?

Speaking of tools not available in North America. Are there any plans to bring over the Festool Shinex RAP 150 or RAP 80 to NA.

Thanks

Offline Festool USA

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Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2010, 05:53 PM »
Hi Shane. "UL certification" is given as the reason for many tools not making it to North America. What does this mean? Does it mean that it would not pass the certification process, or is it the expense of submitting it to UL for certification, or something else?

It means that it didn't pass UL certification.

Quote
I'm curious... does anyone know if the Domino has UL certification? I don't see a UL certification anywhere on it, and the UL label that was in the Systainer says it is for a "Power Cord". I also don't see the Domino included in UL's listings for Festool; actually, there's a lot of tools not listed there.

Mike, yes, I am quite sure it's UL approved.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 05:56 PM by Shane Holland »

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2010, 05:56 PM »
Does UL then give a report of what the product needs so it can pass? Was the denial based on a fundamental point of design? If not a fundamental design flaw(in UL's eyes) did Festool choose not to make smaller changes because of a cost issue or that it would make the product ineffective?

Are you  in a position to even answer these questions?

I guess Festool decides on making a version for the American market based on the hassle of implementing two designs and how much money they can make on it .
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 06:10 PM by nickao »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Toolfest

  • Posts: 61
Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2010, 05:57 PM »
Thanks for that Shane.

Do you know if there are any plans to bring over the Festool Shinex RAP 150 or RAP 80.

Offline Festool USA

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Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2010, 06:11 PM »
The Shinex RAP 150 already has UL approval, however I'm not sure at this point what the plans are for introduction in North America. That tool is designed specifically for the automotive industry.  We have brought over a few units for evaluation from some industry experts.  One of them posted his comments and photos of some exotic cars he works on about a year ago.

As for the UL testing process, first let me qualify that I am no expert on the process, but they do provide information about the reason(s) a product does not pass.  Regarding the Vac-Sys, I don't know what that reason is right off hand.

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4184
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2010, 08:27 PM »
Man I wish I had a company with absolutely no authority at all that could shape other companies selling practices. What if some day we find UL has been getting kickbacks to certify certain products? They have no legal standing and are not backed by the government, only OSHA approved, which has been found to take kickback here and there. I am not commenting on Festool at all, just that UL has a heck of a business plan and power that may or may not be deserved. They have a lot of control and are totally trusted, I wonder who looks over UL's shoulder to make sure their processes of certification are correct?

The UL Mark indicates compliance with certain Standards only. Compliance with Standards is not a legal requirement nor an indication that legal requirements have been met. So really why they carry so much weight is beyond me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwriters_Laboratories

To bad, that Vac Sys is one product I always wanted.  :)

Hmmmmm, they are located in cook county, hmmmmmm.  I smell rotten eggs.

Here is what I think of the UL [dead horse]

In 2007 they changed to a for profit company? [scratch chin]
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 08:30 PM by WarnerConstCo. »

Offline john stevens

  • Posts: 819
  • Ardmore, PA
Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2010, 09:56 PM »
Hmmmmm, they are located in cook county, hmmmmmm.  I smell rotten eggs.

ROFLMAO.  At least they're not "sanctified" by federal statute or regulation to rate bonds like Moody's or Standard and Poor's--we all know how thorough and accurate they've been.   ::)

Regards,

John
What this world needs is a good retreat.
--Captain Beefheart

Offline RL

  • Posts: 3040
Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2010, 08:40 PM »
I'm going to England in November and I thought about bringing a vac-sys back with me. Can anyone help me with what I would need to do to make it operational on a 110V system? Would a simple transformer do the trick?

Thanks.

Offline venk67

  • Posts: 91
Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2011, 05:12 PM »
Richard,

Did you ever get it?

A 230-240volt source is needed to use 240v products .

I think I once had a step down transformer to use US products in Uk

I guess step up transformers exist.

I think it is possible to wire the A and B inputs (in ave US residential) panel to a customized Uk socket in you shop.

I just use my generator when I run 240v appliances

Venk
"Control, control. You must learn control."  Yoda

Offline RL

  • Posts: 3040
Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2011, 06:22 PM »
No, I didn't get it. It wasn't so much the cost, but the systainers it comes in were too large to bring back. I grabbed a Centrotec set instead, which has undoubtedly been a better investment to date. I'd love to get a vac sys in the future, but it is more of a luxury than an urgent need.

If I was to get one, I would just get the vac clamping unit in the UK, and get a vacuum pump over here which works on 110v.

Offline venk67

  • Posts: 91
Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2011, 07:31 PM »
Too big for your checked luggage? Or just too heavy?

Do u know where to get a quiet 110v suction pump?

Venk
"Control, control. You must learn control."  Yoda

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2011, 07:53 PM »
Vacuum pumps by nature are pretty quiet.  How big a unit you buy will be determined by what your intended usage.  Are you going to use the vacuum pump for a large veneering bag?

Peter

Offline RL

  • Posts: 3040
Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2011, 10:58 PM »
The Vac sys comes in two systainers. Actually to be more accurate, the pump itself is a systainer 3. The clamping unit comes in a sys 4. This was the piece I was interested in, but a sys 4 was too much to handle on that particular trip. You can buy the two separately or together as a package.

What I wanted to do was get the sys 4 with the clamping unit, and then find a pump here that fits the hoses that come with the clamping unit. Also be aware that the vac sys only comes with one vacuum pad, and that the other three sizes come in another sys 3! I don't think the festool pump is anything special for the price. According to the tech spec, the pump's capacity is between 2.7 and 3.5 cubic metres/hour, with a minimum vacuum greater than 810 mbar. In the US, most pumps are rated for CFM (cubic feet per minute)- 3.5 cubic metres per hour equals 2.1 cubic feet per minute (CFM).

http://www.brandtech.com/vac_unit.asp

I should add that I would also look at getting a cycling pump that can be used for veneering work. Cycling is where the pump switches off when the vac pressure reaches its target, and then periodically switches on to maintain pressure. For the Vac Sys, you would not need a cycling unit, but for veneer work it can be very useful if you want to leave the glue to dry for several hours or overnight and do not need or want to leave the pump on for such a long time.

« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 11:01 PM by Richard Leon »

Offline adubeau

  • Posts: 210
Re: Vac Sys in North america?
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2011, 07:31 PM »
Man I wish I had a company with absolutely no authority at all that could shape other companies selling practices. What if some day we find UL has been getting kickbacks to certify certain products? They have no legal standing and are not backed by the government, only OSHA approved, which has been found to take kickback here and there. I am not commenting on Festool at all, just that UL has a heck of a business plan and power that may or may not be deserved. They have a lot of control and are totally trusted, I wonder who looks over UL's shoulder to make sure their processes of certification are correct?

The UL Mark indicates compliance with certain Standards only. Compliance with Standards is not a legal requirement nor an indication that legal requirements have been met. So really why they carry so much weight is beyond me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwriters_Laboratories

To bad, that Vac Sys is one product I always wanted.  :)

Hmmmmm, they are located in cook county, hmmmmmm.  I smell rotten eggs.

Here is what I think of the UL [dead horse]

In 2007 they changed to a for profit company? [scratch chin]


HAHAHAHHAHA this is classic... It explains a whole lot.......


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