Author Topic: More fun with 80/20...?? (Read 252654 times)

Richard/RMW · « **on:** October 02, 2013, 10:40 PM »

I wanted to start a thread to share ideas on jig/fixtures made with 80/20 to work with Festool, hoping others will chime in with their ideas. Here goes:

This is the latest jig, it is designed to secure a FS guide rail for cutting mostly narrow stock. I have done something similar in the past on my MFT but it involved continuous set up/break down of the 80/20 extensions as previously discussed on the FOG.

The downside of that approach was that I had to keep setting up/breaking down stuff secured to the MFT. The ideal setup was something used with or w/o the MFT to cut, in this case, narrow stock. What I came up with was a simple frame to (1) secure the FS rail, and (2) hold the stock while it was being cut. The pins just secure the rails with the Rip Dogs guide clips (no alignment), and the stock being cut rests on the MDF.

When not in use it hangs on the wall. Above it are my FS rails and the pieces of the 80/20 cutting table.

What are you doing with 80/20 in your shop?

RMW

Sean KS · « **Reply #1 on:** October 03, 2013, 05:25 AM »

A re-post, but the 80/20 linear bearings are really useful and within tolerance for woodworking. 80/20 mills really easily, this walnut puts more strain on my machines than any 80/20 gear. My next 80/20 project will be a sliding outrigger for my unisaw. For now it's being for jigss and subframes for my workbench. Looking forward to your next project Richard.

PS: can someone tell me if my photos all show up sideways? I do my
FOGing on my IPhone and they view sideways for me. Anyone?

Jeff Zanin · « **Reply #2 on:** October 03, 2013, 06:31 AM »

Nice photos and they appear right side up.

Jeff

amt · « **Reply #3 on:** October 03, 2013, 10:01 AM »

I am curious if anyone has used 8020 in a similar way the the MFS is used.

greg mann · « **Reply #4 on:** October 03, 2013, 10:08 AM »

Nice applications all. One of these days I am going to make a slider for my router table using 8020 and their bearings. It should be easy to include an outrigger that folds in and out of the way when not needed.

The problem with 8020 in place of the MFS is that slots are needed on the edge and you can only get that in thicker cross sections, meaning you are too high off your work.

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #5 on:** October 03, 2013, 10:49 AM »

Quote from: amt on October 03, 2013, 10:01 AM

I am curious if anyone has used 8020 in a similar way the the MFS is used.

As Greg stated, the available 80/20 profiles with slots in the edge are too thick, I think the smallest is 25mm/1". You can find 20mm profiles elsewhere.

The best profiles I have found for routing are both from WoodPeckers. The larger profile is 0.70" thick and has the t-slot on the edge, the smaller profile is 0.50" thick but has no slot on the edge. In both cases I has the grind a hair off the edges of the Festool clamps before they would slide into the slots.

RMW

amt · « **Reply #6 on:** October 03, 2013, 12:07 PM »

That woodpecker super track looks promising. I wonder if something could be made (or already exists?) to connect 4 tracks together, each 90 degrees off another, like the MFS. I suppose a special nut and bolt would be needed.

Svar · « **Reply #7 on:** October 03, 2013, 12:26 PM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on October 03, 2013, 10:49 AM

Quote from: amt on October 03, 2013, 10:01 AM
I am curious if anyone has used 8020 in a similar way the the MFS is used.

As Greg stated, the available 80/20 profiles with slots in the edge are too thick, I think the smallest is 25mm/1". You can find 20mm profiles elsewhere.

The best profiles I have found for routing are both from WoodPeckers. The larger profile is 0.70" thick and has the t-slot on the edge, the smaller profile is 0.50" thick but has no slot on the edge. In both cases I has the grind a hair off the edges of the Festool clamps before they would slide into the slots.

RMW

You can get thin and wide profiles from Techno Inc.:
http://www.techno-isel.com/LMC/Extrusions/

and from Bosch-Rexroth:
http://www.boschrexroth-us.com/country_units/america/united_states/sub_websites/brus_dcl/Products/Aluminum_Structural_Framing/a_catalog/mge_catalog_download/index.jsp
Look at Profiles catalog.

Overall Bosch-Rexroth framing system is superior to 80/20 in terms of versatility and variety of components. Their linear motion goes from dry friction all the way to ball bearing on hardened steel shaft. There are components specific to workstations, workbenches and ergonomics.

amt · « **Reply #8 on:** October 03, 2013, 11:43 PM »

With the anchor bolt fasteners, sounds like a similar method of joining at 90 degrees could be achieved. Who knows, just maybe not at the precision of the MFS. Wondering if I could find a anchor fastener to match the Woodpeckers Super Track.

Sean KS · « **Reply #9 on:** October 11, 2013, 03:35 AM »

In regards to the MFS application: look into Hafele Maxifix connectors I think they could be used quite easily to butt joint the extrusions (website says 19mm, they can go thinner if need be) with more user friendliness than the MFS. They use 35mm hinge mortising bits to install. So long you can nail the depth the idea should work.
www.hafele.com/us/products/maxifix-connector-bolt-hafele.asp

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #10 on:** October 11, 2013, 09:17 AM »

Svar - I really like some of those thinner profiles @ techno-isel.com, they look useful. I am too heavily invested in 80/20 1515 profile to switch to the Bosch, and 80/20 is easily available here on eBay.

Here is another setup used to extend the MFT for longer cuts. My little shop is 11'9" inside (@ widest) so there is no room for a permanent bench larger than the MFT. The work-around is this extension that attaches with 2 knobs/t-bolts. Height is adjustable so the extension arms (w/MDF) can be lowered to the same height as the MFT top.

Shown is cross-cutting 96" material:

There is plenty of room to work between the MFT and the built in drawers, however you can just squeak by 8' material to get in/out the door.

After cross-cutting the arms are removed from the MFT, clearing it for other operations like mitering with the Rip Dogs, while leaving the extension on the MFT to use for routing/sanding/painting.

When done the extensions knock down in 10 minutes and go back to their place on the wall, taking up very little storage area.

RMW

Rusty Miller · « **Reply #11 on:** October 11, 2013, 12:59 PM »

Good stuff Richard, as usual !!!

Rusty

Like the new avatar!

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #12 on:** October 24, 2013, 10:25 PM »

I have my own definition of Serendipity - "the act of doing something dumb and discovering something good from it".

After I had all 4 miter corners dominoed & glued and reached for clamps the realization dawned that the panel was longer than any of my clamps. Oops. Good thing the glue sets slow and there were lots of pieces of 80/20 sitting around.

I hastily cut/drilled a few blocks of wood & attached them to the 80/20 about 1/8" closer to each other than the length of the long side rail. Used the clamps on the long sides to pull the mitered corners together, which forced the short sides outward against the blocks and closed the miters nicely. The second photo shows the open miter and the third photo shows it after being clamped and closed.

Lucked out again.

RMW

Slappy · « **Reply #13 on:** October 25, 2013, 12:39 AM »

is that " 10 " series 8020 ??

where or what part # is those bolts ? or are those hardware store bought ?
I have some 8020 #10 1 x 3 rails & some 1 x 1 rails coming but I'm not clear on the hardware to use
any suggestions would be great

Sean KS · « **Reply #14 on:** October 25, 2013, 02:28 AM »

Bolts for t tracks can be anything. Those ones look like 80/20 gear but they could be anything. The important info for bolts is the selected length should be that of the material to be bolted plus 1/4" (20 series) to 1/8" (10 series) longer for the slot nut.

Sean KS · « **Reply #15 on:** October 25, 2013, 02:30 AM »

http://www.8020.net/Training-30.asp

This is a little demo video from 80/20, their training site has a few and they're pretty useful. Maybe these could be used to carry a vac hose overhead or even a tool tray like the one on Micheals famous boom arm.

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #16 on:** October 25, 2013, 07:44 AM »

Quote from: Slappy on October 25, 2013, 12:39 AM

is that " 10 " series 8020 ??

where or what part # is those bolts ? or are those hardware store bought ?
I have some 8020 #10 1 x 3 rails & some 1 x 1 rails coming but I'm not clear on the hardware to use
any suggestions would be great

Slappy, those are 1515 (1.5") profiles. To give you a sense of scale the frame being clamped is 1.25" by 3.5" material just over 46" long. The cap screws are M8 probably 40mm long with tee nuts.

10 series uses M6 or 1/4" fasteners. 15 series is best with M8 or 5/16".

I have another panel to clamp up, this time I am going to use some wedges to let me adjust the clamping pressure. Will report back afterwards.

RMW

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #17 on:** October 25, 2013, 11:20 AM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on October 24, 2013, 10:25 PM

I have my own definition of Serendipity - "the act of doing something dumb and discovering something good from it".

After I had all 4 miter corners dominoed & glued and reached for clamps the realization dawned that the panel was longer than any of my clamps. Oops. Good thing the glue sets slow and there were lots of pieces of 80/20 sitting around.

(Attachment Link)

I hastily cut/drilled a few blocks of wood & attached them to the 80/20 about 1/8" closer to each other than the length of the long side rail. Used the clamps on the long sides to pull the mitered corners together, which forced the short sides outward against the blocks and closed the miters nicely. The second photo shows the open miter and the third photo shows it after being clamped and closed.

Lucked out again.

RMW

I like the Bessey band clamps but I plan to get or make some .Blokkz

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #18 on:** October 25, 2013, 11:37 AM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on October 25, 2013, 11:20 AM

Quote from: Richard/RMW on October 24, 2013, 10:25 PM
I have my own definition of Serendipity - "the act of doing something dumb and discovering something good from it".

After I had all 4 miter corners dominoed & glued and reached for clamps the realization dawned that the panel was longer than any of my clamps. Oops. Good thing the glue sets slow and there were lots of pieces of 80/20 sitting around.

(Attachment Link)

I hastily cut/drilled a few blocks of wood & attached them to the 80/20 about 1/8" closer to each other than the length of the long side rail. Used the clamps on the long sides to pull the mitered corners together, which forced the short sides outward against the blocks and closed the miters nicely. The second photo shows the open miter and the third photo shows it after being clamped and closed.

Lucked out again.

RMW

I like the Bessey band clamps but I plan to get or make some .Blokkz

Michael, I have been thinking about the Blokkz also but they probably would not have worked in this case, I think the panel would prevent clamping them to the rails.

RMW

Slappy · « **Reply #19 on:** October 25, 2013, 12:49 PM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on October 25, 2013, 07:44 AM

Quote from: Slappy on October 25, 2013, 12:39 AM
is that " 10 " series 8020 ??

where or what part # is those bolts ? or are those hardware store bought ?
I have some 8020 #10 1 x 3 rails & some 1 x 1 rails coming but I'm not clear on the hardware to use
any suggestions would be great

Slappy, those are 1515 (1.5") profiles. To give you a sense of scale the frame being clamped is 1.25" by 3.5" material just over 46" long. The cap screws are M8 probably 40mm long with tee nuts.

10 series uses M6 or 1/4" fasteners. 15 series is best with M8 or 5/16".

I have another panel to clamp up, this time I am going to use some wedges to let me adjust the clamping pressure. Will report back afterwards.

RMW

Is there any way to use a bolt head , maybe a carriage bolt in the slot & have the bolt body extend out & then tighten with a nut OR a Knob ??

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #20 on:** October 25, 2013, 02:22 PM »

Quote from: Slappy on October 25, 2013, 12:49 PM

Quote from: Richard/RMW on October 25, 2013, 07:44 AM
Quote from: Slappy on October 25, 2013, 12:39 AM
is that " 10 " series 8020 ??

where or what part # is those bolts ? or are those hardware store bought ?
I have some 8020 #10 1 x 3 rails & some 1 x 1 rails coming but I'm not clear on the hardware to use
any suggestions would be great

Slappy, those are 1515 (1.5") profiles. To give you a sense of scale the frame being clamped is 1.25" by 3.5" material just over 46" long. The cap screws are M8 probably 40mm long with tee nuts.

10 series uses M6 or 1/4" fasteners. 15 series is best with M8 or 5/16".

I have another panel to clamp up, this time I am going to use some wedges to let me adjust the clamping pressure. Will report back afterwards.

RMW

Is there any way to use a bolt head , maybe a carriage bolt in the slot & have the bolt body extend out & then tighten with a nut OR a Knob ??

5/16 carriage bolts work fine in the 1515. I don't know about the 1010 profile.

RMW

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #21 on:** November 06, 2013, 09:46 PM »

Was just fiddling around in the shop tonight and I stumbled across this.

This is just the 1515 ULS profile. It sits nearly perfectly level and just a tad under 1/2" below the MFT surface. I cobbled this together in a couple minutes & the 80/20 extensions with MDF are within 1mm of being dead level with the top.

Not something I would put a lot of weight on without legs to support it but a dead simple way to make extensions for the MFT/3.

RMW

Rusty Miller · « **Reply #22 on:** November 07, 2013, 08:28 AM »

Richard,
You are the 80/20 "Man"!

Rusty

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #23 on:** November 07, 2013, 10:09 AM »

Quote from: Rusty Miller on November 07, 2013, 08:28 AM

Richard,
You are the 80/20 "Man"!

Rusty

Actually I just don't have a life so I end up standing around out there for hours, often with a cigar and ale, listening to audiobooks. Every now and then I pick up something I have been staring at and fit it to something else.

Keeps me out of the bars...

RMW

Slappy · « **Reply #24 on:** November 07, 2013, 11:02 AM »

Richard ,
what do you use to cut your 8020 with ?

ByrdieMan · « **Reply #25 on:** November 07, 2013, 11:13 AM »

Thanks for the heads up Richard. Works perfectly. I just checked it out and now I know what to do with the extra 1.5" profile I had laying around from my router fence build.

In case anyone's interested I've attached photos of the fence below. The core of the fence is made from 80/20 profiles stacked as follows:

15 X 30 (bottom)
15 X 15 (middle)
10 X 10 (top)
3/4" phenolic plywood (face)

There's all sorts of options - use your imagination. . .

Here's the back view:

And the front view:

The Side view:

And a close-up of the side view (right half of the fence):

80/20 is expensive but useful!

Victor

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #26 on:** November 07, 2013, 11:54 AM »

Quote from: Slappy on November 07, 2013, 11:02 AM

Richard ,
what do you use to cut your 8020 with ?

Milwaukee dry cut chop saw with an Oshlun AL blade:

http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-6190-20-14-Inch-Cutoff-Machine/dp/B00023S336/ref=sr_1_3?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1383843175&sr=1-3&keywords=milwaukee+dry+cut+saw

http://www.amazon.com/Oshlun-SBNF-140100-14-Inch-Aluminum-Ferrous/dp/B001KW00Z2

Slices metal like butter, but the blade it comes with is for ferrous metal.

RMW

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #27 on:** November 07, 2013, 11:55 AM »

Quote from: ByrdieMan on November 07, 2013, 11:13 AM

Thanks for the heads up Richard. Works perfectly. I just checked it out and now I know what to do with the extra 1.5" profile I had laying around from my router fence build.

In case anyone's interested I've attached photos of the fence below. The core of the fence is made from 80/20 profiles stacked as follows:

15 X 30 (bottom)
15 X 15 (middle)
10 X 10 (top)
3/4" phenolic plywood (face)

There's all sorts of options - use your imagination. . .

Here's the back view:
(Attachment Link)

And the front view:
(Attachment Link)

The Side view:
(Attachment Link)

And a close-up of the side view (right half of the fence):
(Attachment Link)

80/20 is expensive but useful!

Victor

Great idea on the router fence.

RMW

lawhoo · « **Reply #28 on:** November 07, 2013, 12:53 PM »

I have an Oshlun AL blade for my Kapex and have used it to cut much smaller pieces than the 8020. I'm planning to build a couple of MFT/Sysport rolling cabinets using 8020 and am wondering whether I should buy a dedicated chop saw for that purpose, which will involve lots of large (4545) extrusions. I'd prefer to use the Kapex and save the money and space required for another saw, but what do people think? (I know Carroll Adams recommends against cutting metal and wood on the same saw, but I've already broken that taboo, since I didn't have the luxury of multiple miter saws.)

Slappy · « **Reply #29 on:** November 07, 2013, 01:33 PM »

Quote from: lawhoo on November 07, 2013, 12:53 PM

I have an Oshlun AL blade for my Kapex and have used it to cut much smaller pieces than the 8020. I'm planning to build a couple of MFT/Sysport rolling cabinets using 8020 and am wondering whether I should buy a dedicated chop saw for that purpose, which will involve lots of large (4545) extrusions. I'd prefer to use the Kapex and save the money and space required for another saw, but what do people think? (I know Carroll Adams recommends against cutting metal and wood on the same saw, but I've already broken that taboo, since I didn't have the luxury of multiple miter saws.)

I just ordered this :::: \

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0012YMVBE/ref=pe_385040_30332200_pe_309540_26725410_item
for my 14 year old 10" Delta chop / miter ( PN#36-075) saw to cut my 8020 stuff with .

I plan on getting a Kapex later this spring for the wood stuff but will use the dewalt till then

The Old Delta will then be just used as AL cut saw , it's small enuff to stuff away when not needed

i'd advise buying a used chop saw & place one of these blades on it for the AL & copper stuff ( the AL blades cut PVC & other plastics very well Too)

but get the smaller tooth AL cut blades as the more teeth the smoother the 8020 cut surface will be
that above is 100 teeth on a 10" blade

More is better when cutting the AL stuff Big Time
I was cutting some AL angles & flat stock on my stock Dewalt carbide last summer but with the cost of the 8020
I wanted a finer cut surface
be safe & clamp down any metal pieces very well when using a chop saw ! ! ! Go SLOW !