Author Topic: Domino and Biscuit Joiner  (Read 13767 times)

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Offline Paul Franklin

  • Posts: 157
Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« on: July 06, 2007, 09:30 PM »
I was just wondering if you owned a good quality Biscuit joiner say the Lamello and also have the Domino have you kept the biscuit joiner? and if so why?
Per and Mirko what is your take on this?

Cheers

Paul

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Offline Bob Marino

  • Posts: 3252
Re: Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2007, 10:21 PM »

 Paul,

 I had a Lamello C2 for several years. Sold it after I had gotten the Domino. Lamello's biscuit joiners are the best in the business, no question. But there wasn't much that it could do that the Domino could not do and an awful lot that the Domino could do that the Lamello couldn't. I know Lamello has some type of hinge mortises that are unique, but there would have been a whole lot of redundancy with having the Domino and the Lamello.
 Bob
Former Festool  Dealer since 2002; user well before that!

Offline Jerry Work

  • Posts: 307
    • The Dovetail Joint
Re: Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2007, 11:44 AM »
Hi Paul,

I have a bit of a different take than Bob expressed.  I do use both.  The Lamello is used to cut the mortise for their excellent hinges and is also used to edge align the 10mm thick book matched panels that I use so frequently in rail, stile and panel designs.  Without modification the Domino will "only" register the fence to center the cutter on a 14mm thick panel.  The Lamello is not restricted so I can set it to center on the 10mm thick panel pieces.  When joining panels 14mm or more in thickness I prefer the Domino as it moves the bending moment away from the glue line and out to the ends of the Domino mortise.  BTW, if you need a really strong joint use dominos of different lengths in the same joint so the ends of the mortises do not line up.  That will lessen the fracturing of the wood at the end of the mortise which is where it appears the failure occurs.

Jerry

I was just wondering if you owned a good quality Biscuit joiner say the Lamello and also have the Domino have you kept the biscuit joiner? and if so why?
Per and Mirko what is your take on this?

Cheers

Paul
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed and hand crafted by Jerry Work
in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building
in historic Kerby, OR. 
26 mi SW of Grants Pass on US 199, The Redwood Highway
Visitors always welcome!
http://jerrywork.com
glwork@mac.com

Offline Brent b

  • Posts: 89
Re: Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2007, 01:11 PM »
My biscuit jointer (porter cable cheapo) has gone into deep storage since the arrival of the Domino.  My take on joining wood is to use whatever process is quickest whilst maintaining integrity for the joining application.  I thought I would use the biscuit jointer at times when strength and alignment wasn't as important.  Turns out the Domino is just as quick and has added benefits.  Every joint that I can pocket screw, however, gets the screw.  This is the get-er-done approach to carpentry. ;D >:(
Brent
i bought in
it's paid off
i'm going home

Offline Bob Childress

  • Posts: 121
  • South Carolina, USA
Re: Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2007, 03:18 PM »
I have the PC Type III joiner and have not fired it in anger since Domi arrived. I keep thinking I'll use it, but I don't. Another 6 months of no use and I'm going to sell it.  :)
TS-55, RO-150, ETS-150/3, DX-93, LS-130, CT-22, OF-1000, DF-500Q, C-12

Offline woodshopdemos

  • Inactive Member
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  • Posts: 759
    • Woodshop Demos - 1400 pages of how-to
Re: Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2007, 03:31 PM »
I am quite a bit different. I have two biscuit joiners and havent used either is 8 years or so. For edge joining for panel glue up, I much preferred using the router table and a 5/32" slot cutter. I found that to give better alignment. And I havent used that since the arrival of the Domino which I find gives me a tighter alignment and glueup.
In memory of John Lucas (1937 - 2010)

Offline Rob McGilp

  • Posts: 430
  • Curmudgeon
    • Damn Fine Furniture
Re: Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2007, 06:12 PM »
Hi Jerry,
Congrats on all your great works.
Your point about the depth of center is dear to my heart, as is  how much stock is left between the domino mortise and the edge of the work piece. In hard woods this is probably not so much of a problem, but in softwoods, it's an issue.
To start with the second, I would dearly love a 3.5 and 4mm cutter available for just the purpose of cutting into 10mm timber and also for using when making inlays.
As far as registering center, I use a piece of timber of known depth above the workpiece and register the cut against the total depth from the top of the plate rest to the actual center of the workpiece.
I also would prefer to use slot cutter bits on the router table for the same reasons you have mentioned.

Regards,

Rob

Offline Mirko

  • Posts: 394
Re: Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2007, 10:44 PM »
I am quite a bit different. I have two biscuit joiners and havent used either is 8 years or so. For edge joining for panel glue up, I much preferred using the router table and a 5/32" slot cutter. I found that to give better alignment. And I havent used that since the arrival of the Domino which I find gives me a tighter alignment and glueup.

John,
Is your shop, hobby, or business?  What have you built in that time period?
A cabinet maker without a biscuit joiner, will make about as much money, as a Mechanic who chooses to use a crescent wrench instead of an incremental set.

In the case of the "Domino" or the "Biscuit Joiner"
First, I admit, I do not own a Domino (yet) But my experience with the Lamello machine goes back a long way. IMO the Lamello machine changed the way we make things out of wood, and it has become a must have in a commercial shop. I can't see how the Domino can match the Lamello in speed and material cost in some applications.

Mirko






Offline Gary Nichols

  • Posts: 92
Re: Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2007, 06:20 AM »
Paul,

I have a Lamello Cobra, which was pretty much their "Entry Level" model. Underpowered with direct-drive, but still vastly superior to the Freud it replaced. I won't be selling it off anytime soon since it's primary use around here has long been mortising cabinet doors and face frames for the Lamello Duplex hinge; the one job my Domino can't do. Not yet, anyway. A few years back I even removed the two rubber non-slip pads from their holes and made a pair of press-fit centering pins, not unlike what the Domino has now, except thinner, and they don't retract. With the pins in place, I just space them between door and frame, and plunge for matching mortises.

And I stopped making face frames with those tiny H-9 biscuits ever since I bought a Delta hollow chisel mortiser a year or so ago. But that was before Domino.

Even if/when someone makes a hinge that the Domino can mortise for, I'll just keep the Lamello. Every time I sell off a recently redundant tool, I soon have a need for it. Besides, who's going to buy it now that there's Domino? One like mine just sold on eBay for $100

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150135772259&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1



Gary Nichols
« Last Edit: July 08, 2007, 06:27 AM by Gary Nichols »
I'm not lost, I'm just taking the scenic route

Offline john stevens

  • Posts: 819
  • Ardmore, PA
Re: Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2007, 04:24 PM »
I own the basic Lamello (I forget what it's called) and have no plans to sell it now that I also have the Domino.  Like Jerry Work, I like to use it for the Lamello hinges.  But I also find that the Domino has little or no advantage over the Lamello when it comes to speed and ease of use.  I forsee situations in which biscuits will work better than dominos, so I'm keeping the Lamello for those situations.

Regards,

John
What this world needs is a good retreat.
--Captain Beefheart

Offline Mike Chrest

  • Posts: 386
  • N.W. New York State
Re: Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2007, 10:39 AM »
Paul,
   I have two biscuit joiners (Lamello basic and DeWalt) am keeping the Lamello (slightly more accurate) and selling the Dewalt(check the sale section of this site ;D). If you do production the biscuit joiner is faster than the Domino, the biscuits are cheaper and available anywhere, working with 1/2 plywood is easier, hinges and connectors are available for biscuit slots, and they are cool machines.
  Domino makes stronger joints, on narrower stock,with great accuracy. Get both! ;D
Mike

Offline art stratemeyer

  • Posts: 29
    • Fine Woodworkers
Re: Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2007, 10:50 PM »
We've used biscuits in the shop for years and the fact that we now have a Domino won't change that.

Set a new employee down in front of both machines and see which one they learn the fastest !! Biscuits win hands down.

That being said ... the Domino will bring new abilities in the furniture making side.  But for fast, easily trainable production, still hard to beat biscuits.
Art Stratemeyer

Fine Woodworkers
www.finewoodworkers.com

Offline Mirko

  • Posts: 394
Re: Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2007, 12:29 AM »
I am quite a bit different. I have two biscuit joiners and havent used either is 8 years or so. For edge joining for panel glue up, I much preferred using the router table and a 5/32" slot cutter. I found that to give better alignment. And I havent used that since the arrival of the Domino which I find gives me a tighter alignment and glueup.

John,
Is your shop, hobby, or business?  What have you built in that time period?
A cabinet maker without a biscuit joiner, will make about as much money, as a Mechanic who chooses to use a crescent wrench instead of an incremental set.

In the case of the "Domino" or the "Biscuit Joiner"
First, I admit, I do not own a Domino (yet) But my experience with the Lamello machine goes back a long way. IMO the Lamello machine changed the way we make things out of wood, and it has become a must have in a commercial shop. I can't see how the Domino can match the Lamello in speed and material cost in some applications.

Mirko







 Now that I have the Domino I would like to bump this thread, and share my thoughts on having used both machines now.
When I quoted this: "I can't see how the Domino can match the Lamello in speed and material cost in some applications."  I could'nt have said it anymore diplomatic.
For me, it is more convenient to have BOTH. #1, i've been using the Lamello machine for 20 years so I can't give up the comfort and confidence I have in that machine.
Others have mentioned the issues when using thinner stock and I much prefer the Lamello. If I need some play in the face of a joint, I like to hammer the biscuits on a piece of steel, or a concrete floor to crush them. And lastly the Lamello is a tough little machine, I would trust anyone to use it and understand its functions.

The Domino,
I would NEVER lend out, or let an employee touch, because it seems delicate. I am extra carefull to unplug dangling cords that could trip up and pull the Domino off a bench... Ouch!! not looking forward to that day!
I would say that 20% of the Domino's functions correspond with the Lamello, So why not just let the Lamello handle the 20% that its very good for, and hey if that clumsy employee drops it, I can borrow one, from any woodworker I know.

The Domino is for seasoned woodworkers, the margin for error is much higher than the Biscuit joiner, therefore giving a novice a 20 second demo is out of the question.
If I had to explain to someone how to make a mortice and tenon joint using the typical machines required, the 5-10 min explanation the Domino needs wins hands down.



Mirko




Offline clintholeman

  • Posts: 301
  • Sonoma County, CA
    • Clint Holeman, Fine Furniture and Cabinets
Re: Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2007, 01:30 AM »
Mirko-

I am loathe to say this, but I can assure you that Domino is not nearly as fragile as you may think <sigh>.  I have now pulled mine off of my MFT a couple of times and aside from a broken wing on the Cross Stop attachment [cheap thing wouldn't take a direct fall on it with Domino on top... ;D].

It's really a pretty tough machine.  I wouldn't recommend dropping it just to check it out. ::)

I, too, used my biscuit joiner for years, and it has gathered dust since my Domino arrived.  I simply don't even think about it any more.

I do agree though - I wouldn't let anyone use my Domino but me!
Clint Holeman

clint@clintholeman.com
http://www.clintholeman.com

Offline wooden

  • Posts: 319
Re: Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2007, 02:35 AM »
The Domino is for seasoned woodworkers, the margin for error is much higher than the Biscuit joiner, therefore giving a novice a 20 second demo is out of the question.

I'm no seasoned woodworker and I got the Domino up and running in the same time it took to get a biscuit joiner working.  The margin for error is different....mostly dependent on plunge speed.  If I plunged too fast with a biscuit joiner, one side of the slot would blow out a little.  If I plunge too fast with the Domino, the tenon doesn't fit well.

I'm not one to say the Domino is an end-all....but it is not a difficult tool requiring high skill level to employ effectively.

Offline Mirko

  • Posts: 394
Re: Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2007, 03:15 AM »
Don't get me wrong, I love this machine, over the last month i've been sticken domino's everywhere!
But we have to admit, (and come on guys be honest)its too nice a tool to use on certain jobs.
I guess this applies to people who choose to keep both machines, but If I had to pick only one, it would be the Domino.


Mirko

Offline Toller

  • Posts: 221
Re: Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2007, 04:10 PM »
My current project uses 12 dominoes, 20 biscuits, and 12 pocket screws.  I could have done it with all dominoes, but thought the biscuits and pocket screws were more appropriate where I used them. 
Before the buying the Domino I would have used dowels instead, but the Domino is much quicker, stronger and more fool proof.

So on the whole, I am using the Domino to replace dowels.  Perhaps it will start to push biscuits aside when I get more into it.

Offline atogrf1

  • Posts: 154
  • FESTOOL
Re: Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2007, 07:59 AM »
I still keep my biscuit joiner to use for reinforcing miters.  Other than that, it is strictly a Domino world for me.

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1907
Re: Domino and Biscuit Joiner
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2007, 04:05 PM »
This reminds me a little of Dan's thread about the 1010 vs. trim router thread. Or 1010 vs. 1400, for that matter. There is certainly overlap between the Domino and a Lamello, and it appears Mirko, John L., and Clint see it in a different places. That's cool.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan