Author Topic: MIDI-Systainers  (Read 3842 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 564
MIDI-Systainers
« on: February 21, 2019, 01:04 AM »
So I just noticed the existence of MIDI-systainers.  I've been plotting getting Systainers for my non-festools and for storing stuff like sand paper.  Some items could work better in these slightly wider units, and in the case of 125mm sandpaper, it looks like a MIDI-Systainer 3 would fit 6 boxes perfectly.

My question is, are the MIDI-Systainers a forgotten/abandon child of Tanos?  I see they were launched apparently in 2013, but only ever in the 2 sizes.  A MIDI-Systainer 1 would be ideal for a lot of tools.  It looks like they came out with the 2 sizes and forgot about them. Which is a shame since many tools would fit better in them.

I don't want to have just a couple of them laying around as they work system wise I suppose, yet are still an odd size compared to most the units folks would have.  Just seams like if these were something to invest in, Tanos would have filled out the line. Much like the Maxi has a place in the world, but looks abandoned and never updated to T-loc.

Does anyone know the fate/future on the MIDI line? It doesn't look like many places even sell them.

Offline ggc

  • Posts: 38
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2019, 02:34 AM »
I always suspected the Midi was designed for some of the larger drills in the Protool range, and when the Protool/Festool consolidation happened it was just forgotten about.

I've got one for my Dewalt reciprocating saw, if you use the Tanos Midi inset in a Sys-3, there's a spot to fit a Mini-Sys on it's side, which is pretty handy for accessories.

Offline ggc

  • Posts: 38
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2019, 05:29 AM »
Just had a look through the Narex range (part of the TTS group, and the source of the Protool range).  Looks like the Midi is being used for many of their drills, angle grinders and impact wrenches, so I don't imagine there are plans to discontinue it any time soon.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2227
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2019, 08:52 AM »
I use a bunch of Midis for tools that do not fit into regular systainers.  My Sawzall for example, I had a Bosch DEVS and accessories in one but gave that one to my daughter after I got a used RO150, my small crowbars and concrete chisels live in one, a pair of grinders...one with masonry blade, one with diamond blades, my metal forming tools in one, a Hitachi, no longer, sold in USA, 3 5/8", hand planer, and a pair of lasers in another.  There may be more...

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 564
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2019, 09:22 AM »
Right,  items like saw saws,  caulk gun, etc. are a natural fit.   I just don't like that they are just 2 odd balls, like the maxi being 1 oddball.

If they filled out the line of MIDIs and updated the MAXI and made it full line, that would be very helpful.  Otherwise they have sorta created the classic problem tool companies have had of making unique and different size cases for all their tools.

Right now most my old corded tools have their cases they came with, which generally suck, but since I don't use them much, it's not really worth it to me to spend money re-casing them.  They are basically around as backups, loaners, horrible task tools.  So I can probably just fit with regular ones, and not have the handful of MIDIs.  But again if they were more common, and Festool used them too, and they had at least a MIDI-1 for normal sized yet long tools, or normal sized tools and their consumables/add ons.  This is where I also wish they made a regular Systainer I with a drawer under it.

I'm really surprised Festool doesn't adopt them more instead of trying to fit tools at the most odd angles and such in the normal Systainers. 1 footprint box is nice, but there is limits to that. An even mix in the tool system would make it a fairly none issue for most folks.  Even going full MIDI might make sense, but of course now you just reversed the current problem and have oversized cases for many tools, verses the current under-sized tools.

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8926
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2019, 10:15 AM »
Can't say how long they will be available, maybe a long time. But the two sizes available are probably the most useful sizes in relation to the other dimensions. A size one would not be bad to have, but size four or five would be getting quite large. An expanded range with more options would be good but not sure how useful the other possibilities would really be.

I suspect that there are enough available and probably for the near future that you would not need to worry too much about availability. They still stack with regular Sys. if need be. I have a couple and have ideas for a couple more. If I were you and they are the size you need, I would just go ahead and use them.

https://www.kofferfunshop.de/de/systainer/midi-systainer-t-loc/midi-systainer-t-loc.html

Seth

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 540
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2019, 10:56 AM »
I'm really surprised Festool doesn't adopt them more instead of trying to fit tools at the most odd angles and such in the normal Systainers. 1 footprint box is nice, but there is limits to that. An even mix in the tool system would make it a fairly none issue for most folks.  Even going full MIDI might make sense, but of course now you just reversed the current problem and have oversized cases for many tools, verses the current under-sized tools.

The (corded) belt sander is available in a Maxi systainer. But that has the old latches : ((. I would love to see a TOC-Maxi (I already have the sander…).
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

TS55 · TS55R · OF1010 · DF500 Mk2 · MFT/3 + TSB1-MW 1000 + VL + CMS TS55 + CMS PS300 + LA-CS 70/CMS · CTL Midi · RTS400 EQ · 2 x CXS Li 1,5 · T15+3 Li 4,2 · TI15 Impact Li 4,2 · Centrotec Sets 2008 + 2015 · PSB300 · LR32-SYS · RO150 · Kapex KS120 · 2 x MFK700 · RO90 · OFK700 · BS75 · OFK500 · OF2200 · CMS-GE … | Mirka 1230L P&C | Hammer A3 31 Silent Power · Hammer N4400 · Hammer HS950 (soon!) 

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4171
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2019, 11:31 AM »
I have a several Midi Systainer, sizes 2 and 3. They integrate very well with other T-lock Systainer so they’re the best way to carry tools that are too long for the ordinary Sys. They are almost as wide as the Sys Dolly is so an ordinary Sys needs to be  attached first.

Lee Valley has special colors of Midi 2 and 3.

Offline DashZero

  • Posts: 100
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2019, 10:38 PM »

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 564
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2019, 11:03 PM »
Can't say how long they will be available, maybe a long time. But the two sizes available are probably the most useful sizes in relation to the other dimensions. A size one would not be bad to have, but size four or five would be getting quite large. An expanded range with more options would be good but not sure how useful the other possibilities would really be.

I suspect that there are enough available and probably for the near future that you would not need to worry too much about availability. They still stack with regular Sys. if need be. I have a couple and have ideas for a couple more. If I were you and they are the size you need, I would just go ahead and use them.


My issue is the same with all "totes" is there are no standards.  I want something that isn't about availability for the foreseeable future, but the indefinite future.  I also don't like having mixes. I want a proper standard to exist.  If it looked like Tanos had intentions to complete the midi line or added something to it from time to time it would show it's an active product.

The MIDIs work, it's like using a 45ft conex mixed with 40ft conex containers.  I just wish it's was more complete and was in use just the same as the normal size.

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8926
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2019, 01:17 AM »
Can't say how long they will be available, maybe a long time. But the two sizes available are probably the most useful sizes in relation to the other dimensions. A size one would not be bad to have, but size four or five would be getting quite large. An expanded range with more options would be good but not sure how useful the other possibilities would really be.

I suspect that there are enough available and probably for the near future that you would not need to worry too much about availability. They still stack with regular Sys. if need be. I have a couple and have ideas for a couple more. If I were you and they are the size you need, I would just go ahead and use them.


My issue is the same with all "totes" is there are no standards.  I want something that isn't about availability for the foreseeable future, but the indefinite future.  I also don't like having mixes. I want a proper standard to exist.  If it looked like Tanos had intentions to complete the midi line or added something to it from time to time it would show it's an active product.

The MIDIs work, it's like using a 45ft conex mixed with 40ft conex containers.  I just wish it's was more complete and was in use just the same as the normal size.

    Well in this case there is a standard ...........  the regular size Systainers. Unless you mean cross brand standards. Just because the Midi exists (and does work with the rest) doesn't mean the whole line is a jumble of incompatible sizes and styles.   A standardized system is the whole point of Systainers.  Can't get much more standard and still have modular usability.  And really the Midis are just as much a standard compared to the regular size as a regular size Sys-I is to a taller one , say a Sys - V.  It is taller so not standard. The Midi is wider so not standard.  But they do work together and are part of the same modular system.

     So it would be better not to have the Midi option? Or if the situation were reversed not have the regular size option?

      I guess the best would be to have both regular and Midi be complete lines. Drawer Midi, etc. as well. That would actually be great. I would probably still use the regular size for most things. I just find it to be a more convenient footprint and the Midis would be too big for many things. I do prefer one footprint. I try to get everything into the regular sizes and everything into Systainers period. But I still wouldn't pick just one line. That would be a loss of versatility and I would have to end up putting some things into other cases that would not work with Systainers at all.

    If both regular and Midi were complete lines and worked together would you really use only the Midi line? Even if they were too large or a stack became cumbersome due to size and or weight?

     The regular and Midi play well together because they are standard in height increments, depth, and are connectable. Even the Classics still work, which is good due to the usefulness and variety of the older drawer units.

    The Maxi Sys is a bit of a dinosaur and does not work well with anything else. Yes, regular Systainers attach to the top of it but not in a very usable way. And the handle is on the side. This less than optimal compatibility is not he case with Midi.

   It is a modular system with a variety of sizes so that they can be used to hold a lot of different things and rearranged, reorganized, expanded, contracted as needed.

   I guess it depends upon how much indefinite future you really need. I am sure you will be able to buy them for quite some time even if they are discontinued.

Seth

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 564
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2019, 10:56 AM »
When I say standard I mean standard  (ISO, ANSI, etc).   Many companies making them all to the same dimensions and they interchange with each other.  Walk into a store 20 years from now and buy more containers that fit in just the same as the ones you bought 10 years ago. The world has Intermodal Containers (conex),  it needs to work down to smaller containers.

Systainers are nice, but they aren't a standard.  That's the issue with putting money into them, and of course they are very expensive. 

In many ways if they just skipped the MIDI and updated the MAXI and made it full line that could be better as they would all stack better together.  Plus a MAXI-Loc  4 or 5 might be able to hold a miter saw or table saw.

Containers should work like ISO 216 paper, a series of doubling so then storing and transport works cleanly.  Tanos clearly worked to that idea some, the MIDIs aren't in line with that, which is part of the root question of if they are something they might get rid of or just simply regret and have no future plans for.

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 13
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2019, 03:21 PM »
There is a standard - euro containers (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_container). I think the container festool use for shipping the Kapex in for servicing is a euro container (475009).

They’re made by loads of companies and are available everywhere (over this side of the pond, at least). I use them to organise stuff in the garden shed. I much prefer systainers for tools though.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 564
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2019, 03:46 PM »
Yup,  I've looked into those too.  I think it would help if ISO adopted them so that it might gain more global traction.   It's hard to say if you can find them in the US or not.  A number of places sell units that look like them, but give no details to tell you if they are the Euro Containers.  Spec sheets list things in all inches, so you have no idea what you are actually buying, another classic case of covering reality (metric system) and just making things super confusing.   Other sources certainly look to be them, but if an average person can buy them is a different story.  Big picture is I think they can be had here, just not straightforward as trying to find them keeps taking you to Europe websites/companies.   Of course ideally you would be able to find them in retail stores.  Retail stores here love selling folks totes, sell different versions from the same companies that other stores sells, then pull them off the shelves and put a different model on the shelves, then maybe a few years later bring the old one back for a while.  Basically they know folks want standardization, so by continually changing what they sell, people keep re-buying totes and throwing the old ones out.

The Systainers are nice for tools due to the latching and other aspects.  The Euro Containers look to be good for other things. 

Like a lot of things, we need a few things to happen.  If the EU succeeds in getting Pallet Wide  ISO containers universalized and then made standard in places like the US, then maybe we can adopt Euro Pallet (ours are close right now) 48x40" (1220mm x 1016mm) So still a bit big, but probably manageable, then getting to European style containers can work better.  For sure the auto industry has in part introduced the Euro Containers to the US, but still, they aren't a common thing around here.  I don't think we have PW ISO containers yet because they would exceed US law for road width or be darn close.  Bunch of small changes needed.  The great irony that intermodal containers are a US invention, that has been adopted everyplace else in the world much more so than in the US.

Offline cpw

  • Posts: 145
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2019, 04:25 PM »
In many ways if they just skipped the MIDI and updated the MAXI and made it full line that could be better as they would all stack better together.  Plus a MAXI-Loc  4 or 5 might be able to hold a miter saw or table saw.
I've got a MIDI for my stud drill; and plan to get another one as a toolbox, it fits in well with the regular systainers.  The Planex came in a MAXI, and it does not fit.  I would much prefer to have a more complete MIDI line, but do think that 2 and 3 are logical sizes.  I would really like if they had SYS-AZ drawers for MIDI.  I would definitely get a few more MIDIs and build some shelving if they integrated that way.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2227
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2019, 06:37 PM »
I have a bunch of Akro-Mils 37682 Straight Wall Container Tote with Solid Sides and Solid Base, 24-Inch by 16-Inch by 12-Inch, and the 37288 16-Inch by 12-Inch by 8-Inch Straight Wall Container Tote with Solid Sides and Solid Base.  Festool systainers fit perfectly atop these, two back to back on the first and singly on the second.  These come in various sizes and also in vented sides and bottom.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 564
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2019, 06:43 PM »
In many ways if they just skipped the MIDI and updated the MAXI and made it full line that could be better as they would all stack better together.  Plus a MAXI-Loc  4 or 5 might be able to hold a miter saw or table saw.
I've got a MIDI for my stud drill; and plan to get another one as a toolbox, it fits in well with the regular systainers.  The Planex came in a MAXI, and it does not fit.  I would much prefer to have a more complete MIDI line, but do think that 2 and 3 are logical sizes.  I would really like if they had SYS-AZ drawers for MIDI.  I would definitely get a few more MIDIs and build some shelving if they integrated that way.

Yeah, I have a planex sitting there, if it's case was T-loc design it wouldn't be so bad.   What you say about the SYS-AZ is a lot of my issue with the MIDIs  since they aren't complete, or used a lot, it means items like that aren't set up for them.  This is why I will probably just work with the regular ones and go Euro Containers for other items (If I can get Euro Containers).  With the standards you can have them mixed with 600x400 Euro containers nicely in shelving/cabinet systems.  I think I have seen folks show CMS inserts work in the MAXI but a normal Euro Container may be better.

End goal is I like everything hyper organized and stored.  So having containers that can optimally pack up everything is the goal. Including being able to store away a CMS, maybe a Kapex in the future, etc.  So in time I can pack in totes almost everything. 

Again it's not that MIDIs don't work, it's just they don't fit in as well as would be nice, but at the same time the system is complete and expansive enough where you can have them work with the drawers and other items where maybe you have a half and half mix where they don't end up being so oddball.  It's just like the intermodal containers I mentioned.  20ft and 40ft ones work great together.  But the 45 footer causes problems even though it's mostly interchangeable.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 564
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2019, 06:55 PM »
I have a bunch of Akro-Mils 37682 Straight Wall Container Tote with Solid Sides and Solid Base, 24-Inch by 16-Inch by 12-Inch, and the 37288 16-Inch by 12-Inch by 8-Inch Straight Wall Container Tote with Solid Sides and Solid Base.  Festool systainers fit perfectly atop these, two back to back on the first and singly on the second.  These come in various sizes and also in vented sides and bottom.

Yeah,  this gets to my frustration,  you find companies that list them as 24x16 or similar, you can't figure out if they are the Euro's or a US specific version or a similar but all around different product. This is why every time I look into this stuff I give up in shear frustration because places in the US won't just list them in mm, if they are in fact the European design, but you just don't know since even when the list Mfr PNs, those PNs don't exist on the manufactures website, or at least the European ones.  It's the same frustration with Festool, you have to go to the European websites to get information on products.  U-line and various companies have similar items, you just can't figure out what it truly is. And then you get into the cost, the ones that make more clear what the item is want to charge major bucks.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 564
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2019, 11:16 PM »
To clarify to what I posted above, there is a USA group that is our version of VDA called AIAG.  Same idea, but not the same. And of course they did the same thing as VDA and came up with a container for the same reasons, but it's not the same. It's very similar, but inch based.  Thus why trying to find VDA containers here becomes hard.  You can't tell if it's a VDA container with poor unit conversions, or an AIAG container. 

I have no idea why they didn't go to the same spec (well, I do, it's the same "we have to be different" mentality). But with this it's odd given the massive parts interchange.  Chrysler having been owned by the Germans, and now Fiat.  GM until they sold it off getting the basis for most their cars from the Opel Division, and Ford basically directly bringing in a lot of their models from the European division.  Why they wouldn't just be the VDA standard I have no idea, but it seams to be Pallet based issue (we have no Euro Pallet).

I can find a few limited options for VDA containers in the US available to general public, but they charge many times the price as you would in Europe.


Offline Systainer.Store

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 114
    • systainer.store
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2019, 08:52 PM »
Kine of late to the party here talking about MIDIs.

In my conversations with Tanos, there has been no word of discontinuing though I can't say I'm real deep in relationships with Tanos.  I've had a couple customers ask for MIDIs and recently added them to my stock.  https://systainer.store/collections/midi-systainer

As most said, it is a nice container for those larger things that don't fit well in a standard systainer. 

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 449
Re: MIDI-Systainers
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2019, 11:35 AM »
The Midi Systainer is just the odd one in the lineup. No carts for it (although it fits other carts), no drawers, only 2 heights. E.g.; If you wanted to make a wider Wire Systainer you're out of luck, as the Midi isn't sold in the Sys-4 height.

To all those who say that the Maxi should be updated to T-loc; how do you imagine that? Classic Sys to T-Loc sys has already seen the lid bend open at the edges if you stack a bunch of Systainer and lift them using the handle of the top Systainer.

Yup,  I've looked into those too.  I think it would help if ISO adopted them so that it might gain more global traction.   It's hard to say if you can find them in the US or not.  A number of places sell units that look like them, but give no details to tell you if they are the Euro Containers.  Spec sheets list things in all inches, so you have no idea what you are actually buying, another classic case of covering reality (metric system) and just making things super confusing.   Other sources certainly look to be them, but if an average person can buy them is a different story.  Big picture is I think they can be had here, just not straightforward as trying to find them keeps taking you to Europe websites/companies.   Of course ideally you would be able to find them in retail stores.  Retail stores here love selling folks totes, sell different versions from the same companies that other stores sells, then pull them off the shelves and put a different model on the shelves, then maybe a few years later bring the old one back for a while.  Basically they know folks want standardization, so by continually changing what they sell, people keep re-buying totes and throwing the old ones out.

The Systainers are nice for tools due to the latching and other aspects.  The Euro Containers look to be good for other things. 

Like a lot of things, we need a few things to happen.  If the EU succeeds in getting Pallet Wide  ISO containers universalized and then made standard in places like the US, then maybe we can adopt Euro Pallet (ours are close right now) 48x40" (1220mm x 1016mm) So still a bit big, but probably manageable, then getting to European style containers can work better.  For sure the auto industry has in part introduced the Euro Containers to the US, but still, they aren't a common thing around here.  I don't think we have PW ISO containers yet because they would exceed US law for road width or be darn close.  Bunch of small changes needed.  The great irony that intermodal containers are a US invention, that has been adopted everyplace else in the world much more so than in the US.

Well, ISO standardized paper-sizes, didn't they? And yet large parts of the US still don't stick to it. I sometimes work for companies that are part of an American corporation and their global templates for Office put everything to Letter paper size.  ::)
Yet nobody here ever uses Letter and the printer only has A4 and A3, so everyone who doesn't notice just freaks out about prints having stuff printed right on the top and bottom edge of the paper..