Author Topic: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions  (Read 36111 times)

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Offline Solly1

  • Posts: 18
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #150 on: April 09, 2019, 01:26 AM »
Let me add Carbatec in Australia to both Axminster and TSO for excellent service in supporting the success of this product. Their regular communication, without me having to follow up for an update, has been fantastic and they have kindly arranged with Axminster to drop ship a new set of sticks out to me directly.

Fingers crossed ... will report findings once received and checked ;-)

Cheers
Solly

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Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 314
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #151 on: April 09, 2019, 09:00 AM »
Let me add Carbatec in Australia to both Axminster and TSO for excellent service in supporting the success of this product. Their regular communication, without me having to follow up for an update, has been fantastic and they have kindly arranged with Axminster to drop ship a new set of sticks out to me directly.

Fingers crossed ... will report findings once received and checked ;-)

Cheers
Solly

Can't argue about TSO and Axminister support. TSO by communicating by mouth but Axminister seems to be fine just continuing to send parts. I've tried to call Axminister a couple times but the tech staff was busy and never called back (maybe they are overwhelmed). I think Axminister just needs to take a step back and fix the couple issues and resolve them. From my inspection of parts they are oooooo so close.

I received my third set of rules yesterday from TNT/FedEx. The packaging was better but still a tube. They put the smaller tube into a bigger diameter/stiffer tube. They also sent the short and long drill guides.

This third set has the same issues as my first replacement set. The pins and short stubbed drill guide fit well but the bolt and long stub drill guide do not even fit in any of the holes on either rule.

I didn't touch this rule yet with a file to clean the holes and have attached a couple photos.

Two issues I see: 1) they need to clean the debris in the hole (or is this poor SS machine technique). 2) on the second photo to the left you can see the rolled over material that is preventing the drill guides from sitting flat on the rule.

(Axminister needs this - https://ezburr.com/)

« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 11:12 AM by Mike Goetzke »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4162
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #152 on: April 09, 2019, 03:50 PM »
There has been a lot of talk about the defective holes. Have you been measuring the diameter of the things that are supposed to fit into the holes?

Offline Solly1

  • Posts: 18
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #153 on: April 09, 2019, 05:57 PM »
This third set has the same issues as my first replacement set. The pins and short stubbed drill guide fit well but the bolt and long stub drill guide do not even fit in any of the holes on either rule.

@Mike Goetzke - sorry to hear you found issues with the 3rd set. Aside from the rulers, you seem to also have a "new" discrepancy between pin and guide diameters [blink]

I read back thru your experience, but couldn't find any mention, I am curious to learn aside from the issues documented, if any/all of your rulers holes are straight and true (per my previous posts)? The whole objective of the system.

Cheers
Solly

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 314
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #154 on: April 09, 2019, 06:18 PM »
This third set has the same issues as my first replacement set. The pins and short stubbed drill guide fit well but the bolt and long stub drill guide do not even fit in any of the holes on either rule.

@Mike Goetzke - sorry to hear you found issues with the 3rd set. Aside from the rulers, you seem to also have a "new" discrepancy between pin and guide diameters [blink]

I read back thru your experience, but couldn't find any mention, I am curious to learn aside from the issues documented, if any/all of your rulers holes are straight and true (per my previous posts)? The whole objective of the system.

Cheers
Solly

@Solly1  I'm confident with little cleanup I can get the rules to work. On the second set a light file rub inside the holes fixed the diameter fit and I'm thinking of ways to clean the rolled over material on the surface.


Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4162
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #155 on: April 09, 2019, 06:21 PM »
This third set has the same issues as my first replacement set. The pins and short stubbed drill guide fit well but the bolt and long stub drill guide do not even fit in any of the holes on either rule.

@Mike Goetzke - sorry to hear you found issues with the 3rd set. Aside from the rulers, you seem to also have a "new" discrepancy between pin and guide diameters [blink]

I read back thru your experience, but couldn't find any mention, I am curious to learn aside from the issues documented, if any/all of your rulers holes are straight and true (per my previous posts)? The whole objective of the system.

Cheers
Solly

@Solly1  I'm confident with little cleanup I can get the rules to work. On the second set a light file rub inside the holes fixed the diameter fit and I'm thinking of ways to clean the rolled over material on the surface.

Wouldn’t a ream be better? What size is the hole meant to be?

Offline Solly1

  • Posts: 18
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #156 on: April 09, 2019, 06:54 PM »
@Solly1  I'm confident with little cleanup I can get the rules to work. On the second set a light file rub inside the holes fixed the diameter fit and I'm thinking of ways to clean the rolled over material on the surface.

@Mike Goetzke Sure, but I'm keen to see once you are able to drill holes and complete a row of 10, when dogs are inserted and a straight edge used to test them, if they end up actually being straight ... I don't have hole tolerance issues, just misaligned holes (and/or bowed rulers).

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 314
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #157 on: April 14, 2019, 05:24 PM »
@Solly1  I'm confident with little cleanup I can get the rules to work. On the second set a light file rub inside the holes fixed the diameter fit and I'm thinking of ways to clean the rolled over material on the surface.

@Mike Goetzke Sure, but I'm keen to see once you are able to drill holes and complete a row of 10, when dogs are inserted and a straight edge used to test them, if they end up actually being straight ... I don't have hole tolerance issues, just misaligned holes (and/or bowed rulers).

@Solly1 & @TSO Products

I had a chance today to drill a line of holes. I found out you need to make sure everything is clean before you drill the holes or even small debris will cause the drill guide to rock.

I used my first replacement set of rules that were bent during shipping ( I straightened them pretty well). I used a convex needle file to clean the inside if the holes (just rubbed it - not hard enough to remove any metal only debris) and a 120 grit sanding wheel on my Dremel to remove the rolled over material on the chamfer.

I think the results were excellent! I put a UJK Long SuperDog in holes 1 & 10. I then used a Standard SuperDog in holes 2 through 8. I used the same LeeValley straight edge like Solly1 did and bridged between holes 1 & 10 and measured the gap between the straight edge and SuperDog. Here are the measurements: 0.000, 0.001, 0.001, 0.002, 0.001, 0.001, 0.000, 0.000. I moved the straight edge to the opposite side and now had gap at end dog - so the straight edge must be true.

Mike

Offline Solly1

  • Posts: 18
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #158 on: April 14, 2019, 05:58 PM »
Reassuring results @Mike Goetzke - if the 2nd (or other) ruler yields similar results, then when used in conjunction to determine the perpendicular column, I think you would end up with a very accurate grid of holes indeed! Even if another rulers holes were not as straight, but the distance between hole 0 and 10 was the same as ruler #1, then the layout should theoretically be square, and you could use ruler #1 only to drill the holes straight between.

Offline Jruks

  • Posts: 23
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #159 on: April 18, 2019, 03:17 PM »
Just a brief comment from me as I just received my Mark II package via TSO. Unfortunately I am away from my shop and won’t be able to truly test these sticks out for another two weeks, but in the meantime I have the following observations:

- I love that TSO took the time to add a note to their packaging highlighting past QC issues with earlier shipments from Axminster asking us to check our guide systems and confirm everything lines up etc - good to know that even people not following along with this thread are given the heads up to check their kits.
- this is my first hands on with the guide system (either mark I or II), and I was surprised and happy to see how beefy and heavy these parts are, both the rulers themselves as well as the drill guides, the pins, etc. impressive for sure.
- my two rules seem to be exact diplicates of each other, with the ujk logos slightly imprinted into the surface of the rulers
- My pins and drill guides fit nicely and snugly into each individual hole
- when I put the screw pin in position 0 and hold the rules in place, I can move the drill guide with the longer shoulder up through all position holes and have it drop into each hole without any perceivable shift in the two ruler positions - this is what I would expect if the two rulers are exact duplicates of each other.
- because I can’t really drill any holes I can’t comment on how co-linear the holes are on either ruler stick
- there is a definite bow to the sticks with the hump in the middle  such that the hump makes an upside down ‘u’ when the ruler is sitting in front of you with the numbers facing right side up. I don’t have feeler gauges with me but it’s perceptible if you butt the edges up to each other. With both rulers having numbers facing right side up there is no gap if butted one next to the other, meaning the bow/hump is the same direction on both sticks (again what I would expect if they were exactly alike). If you flip one so the numbers are upside down and the grid lines of each are butted up to each other, you see the gap in the middle.
- please note that the above line item is just an observation of the rulers themselves and I don’t have the ability right this minute to test the important part which is the colinearity (and spacing) of the holes themselves on each ruler.

I’m going to dig around to see if I have a drill and scrap anywhere so I can test out the linearity of the lines before I get back to my shop in two weeks...

Just wanted to highlight for now that at least it seems new orders (at least from TSO) are being shipped with identical rulers at this point in case anyone was worried.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 314
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #160 on: April 18, 2019, 04:52 PM »
Just a brief comment from me as I just received my Mark II package via TSO. Unfortunately I am away from my shop and won’t be able to truly test these sticks out for another two weeks, but in the meantime I have the following observations:

- I love that TSO took the time to add a note to their packaging highlighting past QC issues with earlier shipments from Axminster asking us to check our guide systems and confirm everything lines up etc - good to know that even people not following along with this thread are given the heads up to check their kits.
- this is my first hands on with the guide system (either mark I or II), and I was surprised and happy to see how beefy and heavy these parts are, both the rulers themselves as well as the drill guides, the pins, etc. impressive for sure.
- my two rules seem to be exact diplicates of each other, with the ujk logos slightly imprinted into the surface of the rulers
- My pins and drill guides fit nicely and snugly into each individual hole
- when I put the screw pin in position 0 and hold the rules in place, I can move the drill guide with the longer shoulder up through all position holes and have it drop into each hole without any perceivable shift in the two ruler positions - this is what I would expect if the two rulers are exact duplicates of each other.
- because I can’t really drill any holes I can’t comment on how co-linear the holes are on either ruler stick
- there is a definite bow to the sticks with the hump in the middle  such that the hump makes an upside down ‘u’ when the ruler is sitting in front of you with the numbers facing right side up. I don’t have feeler gauges with me but it’s perceptible if you butt the edges up to each other. With both rulers having numbers facing right side up there is no gap if butted one next to the other, meaning the bow/hump is the same direction on both sticks (again what I would expect if they were exactly alike). If you flip one so the numbers are upside down and the grid lines of each are butted up to each other, you see the gap in the middle.
- please note that the above line item is just an observation of the rulers themselves and I don’t have the ability right this minute to test the important part which is the colinearity (and spacing) of the holes themselves on each ruler.

I’m going to dig around to see if I have a drill and scrap anywhere so I can test out the linearity of the lines before I get back to my shop in two weeks...

Just wanted to highlight for now that at least it seems new orders (at least from TSO) are being shipped with identical rulers at this point in case anyone was worried.

This is strange - following this thread seems TSO supplied systems haven't had issues but from Axminister directly they have. Is there extra effort or additional QC steps taken to assure TSO gets good product?


Offline Jruks

  • Posts: 23
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #161 on: April 19, 2019, 03:03 PM »
@Solly1  I'm confident with little cleanup I can get the rules to work. On the second set a light file rub inside the holes fixed the diameter fit and I'm thinking of ways to clean the rolled over material on the surface.

@Mike Goetzke Sure, but I'm keen to see once you are able to drill holes and complete a row of 10, when dogs are inserted and a straight edge used to test them, if they end up actually being straight ... I don't have hole tolerance issues, just misaligned holes (and/or bowed rulers).

@Solly1 & @TSO Products

I had a chance today to drill a line of holes. I found out you need to make sure everything is clean before you drill the holes or even small debris will cause the drill guide to rock.

I used my first replacement set of rules that were bent during shipping ( I straightened them pretty well). I used a convex needle file to clean the inside if the holes (just rubbed it - not hard enough to remove any metal only debris) and a 120 grit sanding wheel on my Dremel to remove the rolled over material on the chamfer.

I think the results were excellent! I put a UJK Long SuperDog in holes 1 & 10. I then used a Standard SuperDog in holes 2 through 8. I used the same LeeValley straight edge like Solly1 did and bridged between holes 1 & 10 and measured the gap between the straight edge and SuperDog. Here are the measurements: 0.000, 0.001, 0.001, 0.002, 0.001, 0.001, 0.000, 0.000. I moved the straight edge to the opposite side and now had gap at end dog - so the straight edge must be true.

Mike

Mike - were this set of ruler(s) you tested the linearity of the holes for above dead straight themselves? Or did they have a bow or a hump to them along one or both edges and still produce linear holes?

Offline Jruks

  • Posts: 23
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #162 on: April 19, 2019, 03:05 PM »
This is strange - following this thread seems TSO supplied systems haven't had issues but from Axminister directly they have. Is there extra effort or additional QC steps taken to assure TSO gets good product?

I can’t answer this personally. Would seem odd if that was the case though..

Offline TSO Products

  • Retailer
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  • Posts: 847
    • TSO Products
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #163 on: April 19, 2019, 03:43 PM »
This is strange - following this thread seems TSO supplied systems haven't had issues but from Axminister directly they have. Is there extra effort or additional QC steps taken to assure TSO gets good product?

I can’t answer this personally. Would seem odd if that was the case though..

@Jruks – in response to your question about any “extra effort” TSO puts into the AXMINSTER products we ship: normally we do not open the products we receive from AXMINSTER before shipping them to our customers. The exception involves the Parf Guide (original) and Parf Guide Mark 2 where, until recently, we added a Clamping Collar to the shipment.

We have received one (1) report of questionable PGS Mark 2 Parf Stick rule accuracy and we are subjecting that part to lab analysis. In other words, TSO has not seen any Parf Stick difficulties rising to the level of even 1% of Mark 2 shipments.

The intentional very tight fits of the Parf Guide System do result in joining parts requiring some manual pushing to go together the first time or two until the mating surfaces have knocked down any interfering high spots.

We have seen a missing part report here or there but nothing pointing to broader quality issues. After all, a customer problem creates an equal or greater TSO internal workload. So, we are doubly vigilant about all aspects of quality. Reports on the FOG also get our attention and send us checking our own performance.

Hans


TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Jruks

  • Posts: 23
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #164 on: April 19, 2019, 03:46 PM »
@TSO Products it wasn’t my question, I was just saying I didn’t know the answer; but I’m glad I ordered through you guys anyway!


This is strange - following this thread seems TSO supplied systems haven't had issues but from Axminister directly they have. Is there extra effort or additional QC steps taken to assure TSO gets good product?

I can’t answer this personally. Would seem odd if that was the case though..

@Jruks – in response to your question about any “extra effort” TSO puts into the AXMINSTER products we ship: normally we do not open the products we receive from AXMINSTER before shipping them to our customers. The exception involves the Parf Guide (original) and Parf Guide Mark 2 where, until recently, we added a Clamping Collar to the shipment.

We have received one (1) report of questionable PGS Mark 2 Parf Stick rule accuracy and we are subjecting that part to lab analysis. In other words, TSO has not seen any Parf Stick difficulties rising to the level of even 1% of Mark 2 shipments.

The intentional very tight fits of the Parf Guide System do result in joining parts requiring some manual pushing to go together the first time or two until the mating surfaces have knocked down any interfering high spots.

We have seen a missing part report here or there but nothing pointing to broader quality issues. After all, a customer problem creates an equal or greater TSO internal workload. So, we are doubly vigilant about all aspects of quality. Reports on the FOG also get our attention and send us checking our own performance.

Hans

Offline RedDog

  • Posts: 4
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #165 on: April 20, 2019, 06:42 PM »
My Mark 1 system was waiting for me when I got home yesterday. Did some quick checks and it seems fine to me. Sticks are drilled for Mk1 and Mk2. Pins are Mark 2 and fit either. Packaging was great, a tube in a box. Absolutely no issues there. Thanks TSO.

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1913
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #166 on: April 21, 2019, 04:40 PM »
@TSO Products

I just got around to checking the second set of Mk2 sticks, this time using some m6 precision pins I had on hand:



Inserted pins with the bevel up in holes @ positions 0/2/4/32 (center) & 7 using washers underneath the sticks to ensure that the pins were fully seated past the slightly rounded ends:



The final holes @ 10/32/48 did not line up, they were off around .5mm, and you can see the edge of the sticks also didn't line up:



I then went back and attempted to feel whether inserting the pins @ 32 (center) and 7 was causing the sticks to flex slightly, and they were. As far as I can tell the misalignment appears to be in the form of a gradual curve in one/both sticks. I haven't attempted to drill holes and check the alignment but based on what I observe it appears the result would be a line of holes slightly out of true.

As a check I inserted a pin @ 0 and the righthand 48, then attempted to insert one in 6. it would not go in unless I pushed the top stick down slightly (relative to the text) and the misalignment of the 2 holes was smaller than the photo above. This seems to be consistent with the results I got using the other method, i.e. it was about half the amount and in the opposite direction. Here's a sketch attempting to illustrate this:



The sticks themselves are not straight when checked using the woodpeckers 4' straightedge, each has a slight bow in the center of around .5mm also. This bow was reversed between the 2 sticks, one bowing up and one down relative to the printed text.

Edit: The errors I am measuring differ from the first set to the second set. The errors in the first set appear to be the distance between holes, I didn't check whether they were along a straight line. My results seem consistent between the original set of sticks and the set Axminster sent me as replacements. This causes me to question whether I am somehow coming up with skewed results due to operator error?

I'm also not sure if I'm simply overthinking this or not relative to expectations of the precision of the sticks?

Hans, I guess I'll send you both sets to let you try to verify this.

RMW
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 04:50 PM by Richard/RMW »
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline dicktill

  • Posts: 321
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #167 on: April 21, 2019, 04:53 PM »
@TSO Products

I just got around to checking the second set of Mk2 sticks, this time using some m6 precision pins I had on hand:

Inserted pins with the bevel up in holes @ positions 0/2/4/32 (center) & 7 using washers underneath the sticks to ensure that the pins were fully seated past the slightly rounded ends:

(Attachment Link)

The final holes @ 10/32/48 did not line up, they were off around .5mm, and you can see the edge of the sticks also didn't line up:

I then went back and attempted to feel whether inserting the pins @ 32 (center) and 7 was causing the sticks to flex slightly, and they were. As far as I can tell the misalignment appears to be in the form of a gradual curve in one/both sticks. I haven't attempted to drill holes and check the alignment but based on what I observe it appears the result would be a line of holes slightly out of true.

As a check I inserted a pin @ 0 and the righthand 48, then attempted to insert one in 6. it would not go in unless I pushed the top stick down slightly (relative to the text) and the misalignment of the 2 holes was smaller than the photo above. This seems to be consistent with the results I got using the other method, i.e. it was about half the amount and in the opposite direction. Here's a sketch attempting to illustrate this:

The sticks themselves are not straight when checked using the woodpeckers 4' straightedge, each has a slight bow in the center of around .5mm also. This bow was reversed between the 2 sticks, one bowing up and one down relative to the printed text.

Edit: The errors I am measuring differ from the first set to the second set. The errors in the first set appear to be the distance between holes, I didn't check whether they were along a straight line. My results seem consistent between the original set of sticks and the set Axminster sent me as replacements. This causes me to question whether I am somehow coming up with skewed results due to operator error?

I'm also not sure if I'm simply overthinking this or not relative to expectations of the precision of the sticks?

Hans, I guess I'll send you both sets to let you try to verify this.

RMW

Is it possible that each hole is drilled/punched/whatever relative to the (crooked) edge of the rule rather than in a straight line?

BTW, what a beautiful bench! If I had that, I'd be reluctant to do any work on it.  : )

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1913
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #168 on: April 21, 2019, 05:00 PM »
@TSO Products

I just got around to checking the second set of Mk2 sticks, this time using some m6 precision pins I had on hand:

Inserted pins with the bevel up in holes @ positions 0/2/4/32 (center) & 7 using washers underneath the sticks to ensure that the pins were fully seated past the slightly rounded ends:

(Attachment Link)

The final holes @ 10/32/48 did not line up, they were off around .5mm, and you can see the edge of the sticks also didn't line up:

I then went back and attempted to feel whether inserting the pins @ 32 (center) and 7 was causing the sticks to flex slightly, and they were. As far as I can tell the misalignment appears to be in the form of a gradual curve in one/both sticks. I haven't attempted to drill holes and check the alignment but based on what I observe it appears the result would be a line of holes slightly out of true.

As a check I inserted a pin @ 0 and the righthand 48, then attempted to insert one in 6. it would not go in unless I pushed the top stick down slightly (relative to the text) and the misalignment of the 2 holes was smaller than the photo above. This seems to be consistent with the results I got using the other method, i.e. it was about half the amount and in the opposite direction. Here's a sketch attempting to illustrate this:

The sticks themselves are not straight when checked using the woodpeckers 4' straightedge, each has a slight bow in the center of around .5mm also. This bow was reversed between the 2 sticks, one bowing up and one down relative to the printed text.

Edit: The errors I am measuring differ from the first set to the second set. The errors in the first set appear to be the distance between holes, I didn't check whether they were along a straight line. My results seem consistent between the original set of sticks and the set Axminster sent me as replacements. This causes me to question whether I am somehow coming up with skewed results due to operator error?

I'm also not sure if I'm simply overthinking this or not relative to expectations of the precision of the sticks?

Hans, I guess I'll send you both sets to let you try to verify this.

RMW

Is it possible that each hole is drilled/punched/whatever relative to the (crooked) edge of the rule rather than in a straight line?

BTW, what a beautiful bench! If I had that, I'd be reluctant to do any work on it.  : )

Dick, I think it's possible but I'm turning this over to the pro's, I've reached the limit of my precision-machinist Jui Jitsu...  [big grin]

Thanks, that work area is in my inside office/workroom. It only sees light duty for stuff like leatherwork, electronics, etc. Some Brazillian cherry T&G flooring I got cheap, trimmed and laminated, hard as a rock. The goofy thing is due to being at the shore (very small parcels of land, 6KSF in our case) I have 3X the SF inside that I do in the outdoor shop. 

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline jkc_WA

  • Posts: 6
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #169 on: May 02, 2019, 02:07 AM »
I am new to the FOG forums but have been following from a distance for bit. I was particularly interested in this thread since I just received this week a Parf Guide Mark II. Some of the comments had me a little concerned about the manufacturing process and quality checks. Now that I have had a chance to unpack the guide and examine the contents (unfortunately I have not had time to put them to good use!), I wanted to share my experience and the condition of the items.

First off, I ordered from Axminster and had them deliver to the states. The package was ordered on a Thursday and arrived the following Monday. So that was quite a nice surprise to be honest. I was prepared to wait a week or so. The package was in perfect condition and the contents were tightly packed with foam and in perfect condition.

When I took the rules out and laid them on top of one another, carefully aligning the sides of the rules the holes did not line up perfectly. But when I inserted the 6mm joining screw at hole zero:



and then inserted the long-spigot drill guide into the various holes along the rules, they were all perfectly aligned.



(the above photo shows that there appears to be a circle printed or etched onto the rule where the 6mm hole was to be located)

Hole 7:



Hole "12" (end of rule):



As you can see in the above photo, the rules themselves don't perfectly aline. But the holes do and that is the most important part.

I'm including one more of the logo if that is important to verify the batch as some have indicated.



Perhaps this will be redundant in which case I trust the moderators will do their jobs and remove it. I wanted to add another data point to show what I received and in what condition it arrived. I am quite pleased and am looking forward to this weekend so I can put them to their proper use.

Offline Solly1

  • Posts: 18
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #170 on: May 02, 2019, 02:37 AM »
@jkc_WA so far so good :-)

However, before you go ahead with your production holes, I'd suggest performing some of the tests in the previous posts above. At the moment your tests show the holes in the rules are consistent lengthwise only. I am interested to see if your holes are "straight" as well on both rules.

Offline jkc_WA

  • Posts: 6
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #171 on: May 02, 2019, 02:58 AM »
@Solly1 As a quick check, I flipped one rule over so the logo'd sides were facing. No variation in holes that I could tell. inserted the screw in one side and the longer drill guide in the other. Then clamped them down and was able to register the long drill guide in all the holes. A visual inspection showed them to be aligned as well (some of your pics it was clear from just the photos with no need to measure).

Offline Solly1

  • Posts: 18
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #172 on: May 02, 2019, 03:02 AM »
@jkc_WA good signs, please report back with the straight edge test once you complete a row of 20mm holes, hope it all remains straight.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 314
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #173 on: May 02, 2019, 09:25 AM »
@jkc_WA

Glad you had good luck with your rules.

I have had small issues with the hole finishing requiring some cleanup of the bore and chamfer so I looked closely at your first & last photos of post #169. Sure looks like they are doing something to remove the rolled over material I had at the chamfers on mine. If you look around holes 9, 32, and 48 on these photos almost looks like the cleanup tool was a little off center. The chamfer footprint looks oblong - doesn't seem to be from an optical illusion. This tells me they are possibly cleaning up the chamfers. I'm not in front of your rules but that mark around hole #2 almost looks like a mis-hit of the chamfer cleanup tool (too perfectly circular in shape to do by hand)?

Mike

Offline Solly1

  • Posts: 18
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #174 on: May 02, 2019, 09:39 AM »
@Mike Goetzke good pick up, it does indeed look like all of the holes in jkc_wa's photos are consistently off centre and elongated in the north east direction and a deeper chamfer depth.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4162
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #175 on: May 02, 2019, 09:51 AM »
@jkc_WA  looking at your last photo showing the mismatch of the scales, looks like there is an extra increment in the lower scale over the course of just 80 mm. Could you stand the upper rule on edge on top of the lower to avoid parallax error?

If the rules are matched at the first increment how far off are they at the far end?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 11:44 AM by Michael Kellough »

Offline jkc_WA

  • Posts: 6
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #176 on: May 02, 2019, 02:08 PM »
I thought the holes were oblong as well and wondered about cleanup. It really is hard to tell, even when holding them, but if you feel along them it is clear that the holes are not oblong. The discoloration that makes them appear longer is the remains of a circle that appears to have been printed or painted on the rules prior to machining them. The holes are indeed smooth and round, and there are no burrs or rolled edges. Very tidy.

I'm not at home now but will look at the scales and report back re: Michael Kellough's question later.

Offline jayshahu

  • Posts: 6
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #177 on: May 02, 2019, 06:27 PM »
I finally got a hold of my PARF Guide Mark 2 and tested the rulers for alignment and holes being co linear.

1) There was an alignment problem and the holes were  not co linear.

I sent an email to Axminster and they sent me  new set of rulers which are co linear and aligned with each other

But now I discovered a new problem. My 20 mm cutter has a bent shaft. When I tried to drill a 20 mm hole the entire work piece vibrates.

Does anyone has this problem?




Offline TSO Products

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    • TSO Products
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #178 on: May 02, 2019, 07:08 PM »
- as you may know TSO has sold a great many Parf Guides, Original and Mark 2. We have had ZERO calls on Dill Bit vibration due to bent shaft or any other reason,
Have you isolated the problem to a bent shaft? - if so request a replacement from your dealer.
If the shaft is straight and the tip does not show measurable run-out, you might take another look at your CentroTec engagement with your Drill quick-disconnect chuck. It is possible to insert the bit only partially into the FESTOOL Chuck without it being obvious - thus causing wobble and vibration.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline jayshahu

  • Posts: 6
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #179 on: May 02, 2019, 08:01 PM »
Yes. Pls see the attached picture. The shank which goes into the chuck is bent . It is quite a bit off at the very top of the shank. Depending on how far you put the shank into the chuck the wobble becomes pronounced or subdued.

Axminster was very prompt in fixing the rulers. I have reached out to them already for the bit .

Will update once I hear back from them.