Author Topic: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions  (Read 33535 times)

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Offline Rta108

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #210 on: July 12, 2019, 07:04 AM »
My 2 sets definitely seem to be from different production runs. The newer set has an embossed UJK logo. The first set had logo printed directly on the surface.

I advised Axminster about my issues with set #2. They didn’t respond, but I hope they are working the problem and keep us in mind when they get this figured out.

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #211 on: July 13, 2019, 01:11 PM »
I just ordered a Parf II system from TSO Products last night after waiting a long while for stock to be listed as available. I am hoping the issue has been resolved. I feel like I should have asked before placing the order, but I was also concerned that the in stock status would quickly change back to out of stock if I delayed my order.

Finger crossed. I am anxious to receive the items, and in the mean time I would love to learn if TSO has had a chance to inspect and confirm that the rails in their fresh stock are properly aligned, spaced, etc.

Thank you!

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #212 on: July 13, 2019, 02:10 PM »
I just ordered a Parf II system from TSO Products last night after waiting a long while for stock to be listed as available. I am hoping the issue has been resolved. I feel like I should have asked before placing the order, but I was also concerned that the in stock status would quickly change back to out of stock if I delayed my order.

Finger crossed. I am anxious to receive the items, and in the mean time I would love to learn if TSO has had a chance to inspect and confirm that the rails in their fresh stock are properly aligned, spaced, etc.

Thank you!

@Woody Knotsensplintahs ,  one thing I can tell you is that TSO stands behind everything they make or sell.  The believe in customer satisfaction to the nines.

Loosen your collar, take a deep breath, and relax.

Peter

Offline box185

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #213 on: July 13, 2019, 04:40 PM »

Loosen your collar, take a deep breath, and relax.

Peter

Peter, I think Woody is justified in being concerned based on post #208 alone. Everyone already knows that Axminster or TSO stands behind this product, but customers should not be thinking about receiving a defective product seven months into this.

A better solution might be to use the 20mm drill guide. a straight edge, and a good square to make the holes. This method is tedious, but it does not rely on the Parf Sticks. Maybe they could change the design of the 20mm drill guide so that the alternative method would be less tedious.

Paul
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 10:30 PM by box185 »

Offline Rta108

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #214 on: July 13, 2019, 10:01 PM »
The curved sticks is what bugs me he most. Not starting with straight stock seems like a recipe for disaster.

How does the stock get indexed in the cnc before milling the holes? It must use the sides of the sticks, right?

Offline Rta108

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #215 on: July 15, 2019, 05:44 PM »
I just noticed that the inspection fixture posted at #197 doesn’t even check the 32/48 mm offset holes that so many have had issues with.

@TSO Products, do they have an additional step for those holes?

Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #216 on: July 16, 2019, 11:29 AM »
My order shipped yesterday. I had been checking the TSO website twice a day with the hope of getting to purchase a kit. I was concerned that I would be out of service when the automated email for in stock status notification was sent out. Curiously, it has been several days since the item was listed as in stock, and it is still listed as in stock, yet I never did receive an email notifying me of the stock status update.

I guess I got lucky?

 

Offline Rta108

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #217 on: July 16, 2019, 03:43 PM »
Be sure to report back after you get a chance to drill some holes!

My order shipped yesterday. I had been checking the TSO website twice a day with the hope of getting to purchase a kit. I was concerned that I would be out of service when the automated email for in stock status notification was sent out. Curiously, it has been several days since the item was listed as in stock, and it is still listed as in stock, yet I never did receive an email notifying me of the stock status update.

I guess I got lucky?

Offline ChiknNutz

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #218 on: July 16, 2019, 03:51 PM »
I ordered a kit today, have not rec'd a shipping confirmation, but it was at least indicated to be in stock.

EDIT: Rec'd shipping confirmation right after I posted this so guess they are still in stock.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2019, 04:11 PM by ChiknNutz »
-Chris
Rotex 150/5 FEQ, CT 36 E, ETS EC125/3, TS75, Domino XL

Offline Rta108

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #219 on: July 22, 2019, 04:42 PM »
I ordered a kit today, have not rec'd a shipping confirmation, but it was at least indicated to be in stock.

EDIT: Rec'd shipping confirmation right after I posted this so guess they are still in stock.

Have you had an opportunity to layout any holes?

Offline ChiknNutz

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #220 on: July 22, 2019, 09:45 PM »
I ordered a kit today, have not rec'd a shipping confirmation, but it was at least indicated to be in stock.

EDIT: Rec'd shipping confirmation right after I posted this so guess they are still in stock.

Have you had an opportunity to layout any holes?

Not yet.  Took all the bits out to inspect and was impressed by the overall quality and heft of the components.  Like many here, I appreciate finely made items and this does not disappoint.

I am still designing my MFT.  I am currently laying out the overall size I want.  I also am planning to make an MFT with surfaces at 90 degrees to each other so I have large surface to attach items vertically as well as horizontally.  I am sure this has been done, but haven't yet seen pix.
-Chris
Rotex 150/5 FEQ, CT 36 E, ETS EC125/3, TS75, Domino XL

Offline Solly1

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #221 on: July 22, 2019, 09:55 PM »
I am still designing my MFT.  I am currently laying out the overall size I want.  I also am planning to make an MFT with surfaces at 90 degrees to each other so I have large surface to attach items vertically as well as horizontally.  I am sure this has been done, but haven't yet seen pix.

One example that might give you some ideas ;-) https://youtu.be/zFAxqs_-JCY?t=827

Offline ChiknNutz

  • Posts: 69
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #222 on: July 22, 2019, 10:12 PM »
One example that might give you some ideas ;-) https://youtu.be/zFAxqs_-JCY?t=827

That's a good one, thanks.  I was going to make mine a bit larger (and a mobile cart), but may not really need to for the vertical surface, but for the same reasons he illustrates.  I am also making mine from AC plywood so it will be more stable than MDF.
-Chris
Rotex 150/5 FEQ, CT 36 E, ETS EC125/3, TS75, Domino XL

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #223 on: July 23, 2019, 07:43 AM »
@ChickenNuts - the plans for Dave Stanton's bench are available here -
https://tsoproducts.com/plans-drawings/stanton-bench-plans/

along with Parf Guide Systems, Original and Mark 2
https://tsoproducts.com/accessories/ujk-technology-parf-guide-system-mark-ii/

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Rta108

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #224 on: July 23, 2019, 11:26 AM »
I wish I could fit a big table in the garage.

Not for nothing, highly recommend a smaller test of the parf system before you commit to drilling your good top. Especially if you’re going to use nice plywood. Especially if you’re interested in the 32/48 offsets.

Offline Mike Goetzke

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #225 on: July 23, 2019, 12:25 PM »
I wish I could fit a big table in the garage.

Not for nothing, highly recommend a smaller test of the parf system before you commit to drilling your good top. Especially if you’re going to use nice plywood. Especially if you’re interested in the 32/48 offsets.

@Rta108 - check out my post on a 4x8 table in my garage:   http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/my-take-on-4-ft-x-8-ft-worktable/msg583717/#msg583717

Offline ben_r_

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #226 on: August 03, 2019, 02:23 PM »
Is anyone aware of a link to a good overview covering the differences between the original version and the Mark II? I can’t seem to find anything providing a straight answer as to what exactly changed.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #227 on: August 03, 2019, 02:39 PM »
Is anyone aware of a link to a good overview covering the differences between the original version and the Mark II? I can’t seem to find anything providing a straight answer as to what exactly changed.

@ben_r_  you make a good point. This is some thing we could/should/have thought of ourselves.

We will put this together and post it here as well as up on our product page.
For now: the biggest difference is the use of a Mark 2 drill bushing/fixture for drilling the 3mm pilot holes instead of the 3mm drill bit using the original Parf Stick - eventually after many holes enlarging the parf stick holes slightly.

On the Mark 2 the Parf Stick holes are 6mm to accommodate the locating projection on the drill bushing fixture. The drill bit does not touch the Parf Stick

The Parf Stick on the Mark 2 also adds a 32 and 48 mm hole spacing provision. We will put up the User Guide for the Mark 2 - thanks to your question I discovered that we have the "Original" user guide on the product page for both version.

FWIW: We expect a substantial price increase for the Mark 2 coming this fall.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline PeterJJames13

  • Posts: 122
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #228 on: August 03, 2019, 02:43 PM »
Is anyone aware of a link to a good overview covering the differences between the original version and the Mark II? I can’t seem to find anything providing a straight answer as to what exactly changed.

@ben_r_  you make a good point. This is some thing we could/should/have thought of ourselves.

We will put this together and post it here as well as up on our product page.
For now: the biggest difference is the use of a Mark 2 drill bushing/fixture for drilling the 3mm pilot holes instead of the 3mm drill bit using the original Parf Stick - eventually after many holes enlarging the parf stick holes slightly.

On the Mark 2 the Parf Stick holes are 6mm to accommodate the locating projection on the drill bushing fixture. The drill bit does not touch the Parf Stick

The Parf Stick on the Mark 2 also adds a 32 and 48 mm hole spacing provision. We will put up the User Guide for the Mark 2 - thanks to your question I discovered that we have the "Original" user guide on the product page for both version.

FWIW: We expect a substantial price increase for the Mark 2 coming this fall.

Hans

Glad I ordered mine this week - phew!

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1192
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #229 on: August 03, 2019, 02:58 PM »
Is anyone aware of a link to a good overview covering the differences between the original version and the Mark II? I can’t seem to find anything providing a straight answer as to what exactly changed.

@ben_r_  you make a good point. This is some thing we could/should/have thought of ourselves.

We will put this together and post it here as well as up on our product page.
For now: the biggest difference is the use of a Mark 2 drill bushing/fixture for drilling the 3mm pilot holes instead of the 3mm drill bit using the original Parf Stick - eventually after many holes enlarging the parf stick holes slightly.

On the Mark 2 the Parf Stick holes are 6mm to accommodate the locating projection on the drill bushing fixture. The drill bit does not touch the Parf Stick

The Parf Stick on the Mark 2 also adds a 32 and 48 mm hole spacing provision. We will put up the User Guide for the Mark 2 - thanks to your question I discovered that we have the "Original" user guide on the product page for both version.

FWIW: We expect a substantial price increase for the Mark 2 coming this fall.

Hans
Got it. Thanks Hans!

Also, whats the deal with the dust collection adapter? Is that available in the US now?


EDIT: Nevermind, found it! LINK
« Last Edit: August 03, 2019, 03:04 PM by ben_r_ »
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #230 on: August 03, 2019, 03:37 PM »
to all:
the Parf Dust Port is a must. For the money it is a really well designed essential accessory. Axminster invested some real money in injection mold tooling to make this snap on and STAY PUT!

MDF creates shavings that will bind up the cutter if you are not using effective dust extraction

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #231 on: August 03, 2019, 03:45 PM »
I can only echo what Hans said. I have sometimes, when in a rush on site, excluded the dust port, and there was a noticeable difference. There was some clogging, and as a consequence more heat produced than usual.
I always use the port now, it’s so quick and easy to fit, there’s no excuse not too.

Offline Rta108

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #232 on: August 03, 2019, 04:20 PM »
I clamped a small quick-grip to the end of my hose for some weight and just sat it up against the 20mm fixture. Worked fine to collect debris. Still gotta watch for the wafer that sticks to the special bit tho.

Offline wozzman

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #233 on: August 06, 2019, 10:49 PM »
Hi All,

First time poster here...

I have recently received, after much excitement, the Parf Guide System II and have just tried to use it this morning. And I think I might have a problem?? And wanted to see if it was just me??!!

My question is, how tight should the actual holes be on the parf sticks?

It seems to me like there is a bit of 'play' or 'slop' in the parf stick holes that I have. With the pins securely in, I am able to move the sticks… only a small amount but enough for me to be concerned about the accuracy of what is believe is a highly accurate system. This concern becomes greater when I go to do the right angle where the two sticks intersect and meet up, there is double the ‘play’ there given that errors are starting to build up and this creates movement in the ruler of just under a millimetre... and that is where I stopped before going any further.

So, I measured the parf stick hole diameters and they all seem to be coming in at around 6.17 mm (using callipers). When I then measure the locator pins and drill guides etc they pretty much come in on or very close to 6.00mm (using the same calipers). Everything else seems highly accurate and really well made, which leads me to think that the 0.17mm variance in all the holes is a fault??

I’ve attached some photos to hopefully show what might be going on.

I’ve seen Peter’s videos and lots of comments about the system being rock solid and there being no play at all, but to me my parf sticks are sloppy.

I've already reached out to Axminster but they seem to be a bit slow on getting back at the moment, so I though I would see if this is normal or not from you guys. Just for the record, the sticks I have are the printed type.

Thanks!

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #234 on: August 06, 2019, 11:24 PM »
@wozzman  [welcome] to the FOG

I have the original and the pins were EXTREMELY tight, a pain to remove at the beginning. I would assume the same with the Mark II, but Peter or Hans can answer this better then me.

@ben_r_  @TSO Products

Here is what you are looking about comparison between the original and Mark II

Guess who did it  [tongue]
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 11:30 PM by Mario Turcot »
Mario

Offline ChiknNutz

  • Posts: 69
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #235 on: August 07, 2019, 08:05 AM »
I have been using my recently rec'd MKII set for a table with several panels, used it again last night even.  I notice no perceptible play between the mating parts.  The largest grid I have made so far is 9X16 and I had no issues with any of the holes lining up properly with the Parf rules.  Do you also see this with the 3mm locator pins?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 04:33 PM by ChiknNutz »
-Chris
Rotex 150/5 FEQ, CT 36 E, ETS EC125/3, TS75, Domino XL

Offline wozzman

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #236 on: August 08, 2019, 07:51 AM »
I have been using my recently rec'd MKII set for a table with several panels, used it again last night even.  I notice no perceptible play between the mating parts.  The largest grid I have made so far is 9X16 and I had no issues with any of the holes lining up properly with the Park rules.  Do you also see this with the 3mm locator pins?

The 3mm pins locate perfectly into the drilled hole. ZERO play, nice very firm fit. The 6mm guide that slots into the parf stick to drill the 3mm hole is almost exactly 6mm. Again, extremely well made. But the holes in the stick itself are, as I mentioned earlier, approx 6.17mm. I will say, although the holes are 6.17mm they are ALL 6.17mm or thereabouts making whatever happened consistent across the two sticks I have... strange.

As an update, Axminster replied earlier and they have said that the tolerances should be somewhere between 6.01-6.04mm, which is what I would have expected. So will be sending them in for an investigation and new ones coming out. Appreciate them sorting that out.

Offline Rta108

  • Posts: 18
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #237 on: August 08, 2019, 03:41 PM »
I have been using my recently rec'd MKII set for a table with several panels, used it again last night even.  I notice no perceptible play between the mating parts.  The largest grid I have made so far is 9X16 and I had no issues with any of the holes lining up properly with the Park rules.  Do you also see this with the 3mm locator pins?

Getting straight lines of holes? That’s good to hear. Have you had a chance to line up a track saw cut with dogs yet?

Neither of my first two sets of sticks were loose at all. Very tight hold with 3mm pins.

I have a third set of sticks coming in the mail now. Axminster says these were checked and tested. Also included a new pair of 3mm drill guides for some reason. Hopefully they aren’t having a new issue.

Offline ChiknNutz

  • Posts: 69
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #238 on: August 08, 2019, 04:37 PM »
Just as of last night I just finished drill all holes, cutting all parts to size and also have begun assembly.  As such, I have not yet been able to test it all out yet.

What is the issue with you having three sets of rules/sticks?
-Chris
Rotex 150/5 FEQ, CT 36 E, ETS EC125/3, TS75, Domino XL

Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #239 on: August 08, 2019, 05:16 PM »
There should be no noticeable play between the pins and rules/sticks.