Author Topic: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide  (Read 47612 times)

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Offline Roachmill

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NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2019, 07:39 AM »
Thanks for that. I've been eager to see what they were going to come out with.

I can't see it being any use for ripping narrow stock unless they have something else up their sleeves. Besides, for narrow stock, you really want two reference points... and thus two GRS-16s and two TPG-30s (which makes the Woodpeckers version look "cheap"!).

Offline TSO Products

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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2019, 08:27 AM »
the link to the preview image shows one part of a larger "SYSTEM" designed to improve on existing solutions. Subscribers to our TSO INSIDER  (or sign up at https://tsoproducts.com ) will receive more detail as we near launch day. We will recap the points raised in various forum posts and address them in a comprehensive approach.

In the meantime we view all the comments and questions as helpful input to be able to effectively communicate with our base of customers and prospective customers as well.

thank you
Hans and Eric
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline lerabotperche

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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2019, 09:13 AM »
the link to the preview image shows one part of a larger "SYSTEM" designed to improve on existing solutions.


Do you mean it works better as a system ?  [blink]

More seriously, will it be set in systainers or with something to put it outside of a systainer ? Will you do a promo pack with already « existing solutions » ?

Exciting news we have here :) Already on my way to ask my customer to send money asap  [big grin]  [wink]

Offline duburban

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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2019, 09:56 AM »
I just ordered one of your square cutting attachments and had thought of making the same jig for it.
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline Michael Kellough

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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2019, 10:41 AM »
Looks interesting. As an owner of the original GRS I’m looking forward to the solution for mounting the new product to the old.

Offline Jmacpherson

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« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2019, 10:52 AM »
And there I thought I was going to behave myself when it came to tool shopping in 2019.....oh well my arm has been twisted

Offline TSO Products

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« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2019, 11:33 AM »
Looks interesting. As an owner of the original GRS I’m looking forward to the solution for mounting the new product to the old.
Michael - we are determined to develop a way for early adopters like you to be able to take advantage of later offerings like the TPG-30 in a most affordable way. No planned obsolescence at TSO [smile]

stay tuned
Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Cheese

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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2019, 11:42 AM »
Looks interesting. As an owner of the original GRS I’m looking forward to the solution for mounting the new product to the old.

I have the same issue Michael. My GRS-16 PE has 2 tapped holes while my GRS-16 has none.

I believe there was some conversation, maybe 9-12 months ago about producing a jig/kit for adding the tapped holes to earlier tools. It was a fixture that would be circulated to those that signed up and after you modified your tool, you'd send the kit off to the next participant on the list. At least that was the discussion at the time.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 11:44 AM by Cheese »

Offline tazprime38

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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2019, 01:12 PM »
Hans

I may be mistaken but the flipstop looks like thst there may be some play in it when a board is butted to it?

Offline tomp

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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2019, 01:24 PM »
Hans,

It looks as if the extension track locates off the left side of the rib that locates the rail. If this is correct, is there some slight adjustment to the flip stop to compensate for minor differences in the blade location on the saw?  Also, I have one of what I think is one of the earlier GR-16 squares - only has two holes - and wonder if you could let me know the location of the two additional holes needed to accommodate the TPG-30 as it looks as if one hole may match but the missing hole may be pretty close to the other.

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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2019, 05:40 PM »
Hans

I may be mistaken but the flipstop looks like thst there may be some play in it when a board is butted to it?

@tazprime38  - you must have "strong' eyes to be able to move that stop (in a picture) because I can't move the real thing by any means.
I know, - you're just testing us  [smile]
Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2019, 07:50 PM »
Hans

I may be mistaken but the flipstop looks like thst there may be some play in it when a board is butted to it?

There is no play in the stop.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2019, 07:53 PM »
Hans,

It looks as if the extension track locates off the left side of the rib that locates the rail. If this is correct, is there some slight adjustment to the flip stop to compensate for minor differences in the blade location on the saw?  Also, I have one of what I think is one of the earlier GR-16 squares - only has two holes - and wonder if you could let me know the location of the two additional holes needed to accommodate the TPG-30 as it looks as if one hole may match but the missing hole may be pretty close to the other.

The stop is adjustable to compensate for the variations. The TPG needs to be calibrated to your tools.

Tom

Offline tomp

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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2019, 10:29 AM »
Hans,

It looks as if the extension track locates off the left side of the rib that locates the rail. If this is correct, is there some slight adjustment to the flip stop to compensate for minor differences in the blade location on the saw?  Also, I have one of what I think is one of the earlier GR-16 squares - only has two holes - and wonder if you could let me know the location of the two additional holes needed to accommodate the TPG-30 as it looks as if one hole may match but the missing hole may be pretty close to the other.

The stop is adjustable to compensate for the variations. The TPG needs to be calibrated to your tools.

Tom

Tom,

Thanks for the information. Presumably this would be a one-time setting? My present set-up (non-Festool) has no positive stops, plus I disassemble after use because it's so cumbersome, so has to be calibrated each time.

The "fence is detachable, no scale because of the loose pivot where it attaches to the rail so basically has to be manually set to the required cut length - the required length is marked on the material, the cursor is used to set the rail to the line and the stop adjusted.

Tom

Offline tomp

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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2019, 10:31 AM »
Sorry, this photo of my present set-up didn't post for some reason.


Offline RobBob

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« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2019, 11:20 AM »
Looks interesting. As an owner of the original GRS I’m looking forward to the solution for mounting the new product to the old.

Me too.

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2019, 03:18 PM »
Hans,

It looks as if the extension track locates off the left side of the rib that locates the rail. If this is correct, is there some slight adjustment to the flip stop to compensate for minor differences in the blade location on the saw?  Also, I have one of what I think is one of the earlier GR-16 squares - only has two holes - and wonder if you could let me know the location of the two additional holes needed to accommodate the TPG-30 as it looks as if one hole may match but the missing hole may be pretty close to the other.

The stop is adjustable to compensate for the variations. The TPG needs to be calibrated to your tools.

Tom

Tom,

Thanks for the information. Presumably this would be a one-time setting? My present set-up (non-Festool) has no positive stops, plus I disassemble after use because it's so cumbersome, so has to be calibrated each time.

The "fence is detachable, no scale because of the loose pivot where it attaches to the rail so basically has to be manually set to the required cut length - the required length is marked on the material, the cursor is used to set the rail to the line and the stop adjusted.

Tom

It is a one time calibration to your current tools unless you change the pin out for the narrow stock rod. At that time you would have to calibrate the narrow stock rods, then recalibrate when you install the pin.

If you plan on doing the above often I recommend 2 stops, calibrate each and be done with it.

We do rip 8’ sheets with a single arm, largest variation we’ve seen is 128th of an inch.

Full disclosure, I have been testing this system for over a year. Hans supplied me with all the pieces necessary to test the system then updated piece as changes were made.

Tom

Offline tazprime38

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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2019, 04:33 PM »
Hans,

It looks as if the extension track locates off the left side of the rib that locates the rail. If this is correct, is there some slight adjustment to the flip stop to compensate for minor differences in the blade location on the saw?  Also, I have one of what I think is one of the earlier GR-16 squares - only has two holes - and wonder if you could let me know the location of the two additional holes needed to accommodate the TPG-30 as it looks as if one hole may match but the missing hole may be pretty close to the other.

The stop is adjustable to compensate for the variations. The TPG needs to be calibrated to your tools.

Tom

Tom,

Thanks for the information. Presumably this would be a one-time setting? My present set-up (non-Festool) has no positive stops, plus I disassemble after use because it's so cumbersome, so has to be calibrated each time.

The "fence is detachable, no scale because of the loose pivot where it attaches to the rail so basically has to be manually set to the required cut length - the required length is marked on the material, the cursor is used to set the rail to the line and the stop adjusted.

Tom

It is a one time calibration to your current tools unless you change the pin out for the narrow stock rod. At that time you would have to calibrate the narrow stock rods, then recalibrate when you install the pin.

If you plan on doing the above often I recommend 2 stops, calibrate each and be done with it.

We do rip 8’ sheets with a single arm, largest variation we’ve seen is 128th of an inch.

Full disclosure, I have been testing this system for over a year. Hans supplied me with all the pieces necessary to test the system then updated piece as changes were made.

Tom

Tom, what are your impressions on this new parallel guide? How does it compare with the festool PG set or others that you may have tried?

Tariq

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2019, 06:30 PM »
I own the Woodpecker and Seneca parallel guides.

The issue I had with the Woodpecker system was arm creep, you had to be aware that the segments would separate after repeated bumping of the material to set them in place. I also found the stop itself would creep.

The Seneca set I could never get calibrated 100%, most likely me. 

I have used the Festool pg’s.  Never bought a set because they really never impressed me.

One of the really nice thing about TSO’s system is if you have a long arm on the rail or multiple stops you can unsnap the clamp on the GRS and slide the entire assembly off the rail.  Remove the cut piece, reposition for your next cut, slide the GRS on the rail, lock it in place, potion the assembly make the cut. This reads like a pain, but compared to moving a rail with a long arm on it this is a dream.

There won’t be any segment creep because there are no segments. The stop locks in place well. Scale and pointer are very easy to view.

This system is more accurate than my sliding table saw.

Tom

Offline tazprime38

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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2019, 06:54 PM »
Tom,

That is good to know. What about the Rod for narrow board cutting, is this well thought out and does it work well? What are the maximum and minimum cuts possible with these?

Tariq

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2019, 07:06 PM »
Tom,

That is good to know. What about the Rod for narrow board cutting, is this well thought out and does it work well? What are the maximum and minimum cuts possible with these?

Tariq

For narrow rips I highly recommend 2 of everything. One set for the left side. There is not enough purchase on the GRS to make certain you are dead square.

Minimum cut is 0. The rod extends all the way to the saw blade. Max 51ish.

Tom

Offline simonh

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« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2019, 04:48 AM »
I'm looking forward to seeing the final product in production.  Looks interesting.

We do rip 8’ sheets with a single arm, largest variation we’ve seen is 128th of an inch.

That's pretty impressive.  Looks like you've got a pretty good guide rail coupled with the TSO square. 

I read somewhere on FOG that Festool say that linearity tolerances for the 3m rails are 1.5mm... So 0.5mm per 1m is presumably their manufacturing tolerances. So, unfortunately not everyone is going to get perfect results depending on their individual rails. Likewise in setting up the MFT we have squares that are accurate to 0.0254mm (0.001" over there length) but if the rail is so slack on tolerances then a 4-cut square might not turn out perfect.


Offline dr.r.lam

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« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2019, 04:32 PM »
For narrow rips I highly recommend 2 of everything. One set for the left side. There is not enough purchase on the GRS to make certain you are dead square.

Minimum cut is 0. The rod extends all the way to the saw blade. Max 51ish.

Tom


Thank you Tom for the information!


Am I correct in assuming that the TPG-30 will be able to replicate the function of the Festool parallel guide extensions?
I imagine a scenario where you have a full sheet (wider than the length of the TPG) and only need a thin strip.
In that case would you have to do 2 cuts - the first to rip a piece from the full sheet, narrow enough to use the TPG, and then use the TPG to make your thin, final strip?


Thank you in advance!
Richard.

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2019, 04:35 PM »
For narrow rips I highly recommend 2 of everything. One set for the left side. There is not enough purchase on the GRS to make certain you are dead square.

Minimum cut is 0. The rod extends all the way to the saw blade. Max 51ish.

Tom


Thank you Tom for the information!


Am I correct in assuming that the TPG-30 will be able to replicate the function of the Festool parallel guide extensions?
I imagine a scenario where you have a full sheet (wider than the length of the TPG) and only need a thin strip.
In that case would you have to do 2 cuts - the first to rip a piece from the full sheet, narrow enough to use the TPG, and then use the TPG to make your thin, final strip?


Thank you in advance!
Richard.

Let me think on this, I have not tried this yet.

Tom

Offline jobsworth

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« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2019, 05:44 PM »
Any word on the cost?

Offline lerabotperche

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« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2019, 07:26 PM »
Any word on the cost?
Everything was fine and kind until this very moment.  [big grin]

Offline TSO Products

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« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2019, 08:58 PM »
all you subscribers to the TSO INSIDER will get a very detailed description with pictures of the TSO Parallel Guide System . The mail is programmed to go from east to west starting at the International date line - look for it around dinner time in the US on Sunday.

Thanks for all the questions and comments. Helps a lot in knowing what we need to address - really!
Pricing will go up on our website right after the TSO INSIDER announcement of availability has gone out.

Hans and Eric
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2019, 09:26 PM »
Any word on the cost?
Everything was fine and kind until this very moment.  [big grin]

Leave it to Ron.....

Tom

Offline jobsworth

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« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2019, 10:23 PM »
hehehehehehehe you know me  [big grin]

Offline tomp

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« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2019, 11:31 PM »
Just got a notification from TSO that they will be making available a drill jig that will allow early purchasers of their squares to drill and tap the square to accept the Parallel Guide. Thanks TSO, great customer service.

https://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-guide-rail-squares/grs-16-series-upgrade-drill-fixture?mc_cid=4a255c8524&mc_eid=fe336b37dd

Tom

Offline PeterJJames13

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« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2019, 08:33 AM »
Just got a notification from TSO that they will be making available a drill jig that will allow early purchasers of their squares to drill and tap the square to accept the Parallel Guide. Thanks TSO, great customer service.

https://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-guide-rail-squares/grs-16-series-upgrade-drill-fixture?mc_cid=4a255c8524&mc_eid=fe336b37dd

Tom

I received the same email yesterday. While mine is not an older one (so I don't have a need for it), I think it's amazing that @TSO Products didn't forget about their early adopters of their products. Definitely speaks volumes about them.

Offline tazprime38

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« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2019, 07:21 PM »
all you subscribers to the TSO INSIDER will get a very detailed description with pictures of the TSO Parallel Guide System . The mail is programmed to go from east to west starting at the International date line - look for it around dinner time in the US on Sunday.

Thanks for all the questions and comments. Helps a lot in knowing what we need to address - really!
Pricing will go up on our website right after the TSO INSIDER announcement of availability has gone out.

Hans and Eric

Hi Hans

Can you clarify what the left hand and right hand sets are used for? This will help in making the correct selection of which set to order.

Tariq

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2019, 08:29 PM »
If you have the GRS you will need the R system. If you have the GRS PE you can use either the R or L system.

I have used the system L/R and both. If we have a lot of 96" long cuts we do use the L & R. If it's just one or two cuts we'll use a single arm.

Tom

Offline TSO Products

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« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2019, 08:29 PM »
all you subscribers to the TSO INSIDER will get a very detailed description with pictures of the TSO Parallel Guide System . The mail is programmed to go from east to west starting at the International date line - look for it around dinner time in the US on Sunday.

Thanks for all the questions and comments. Helps a lot in knowing what we need to address - really!
Pricing will go up on our website right after the TSO INSIDER announcement of availability has gone out.

Hans and Eric

Hi Hans

Can you clarify what the left hand and right hand sets are used for? This will help in making the correct selection of which set to order.

Tariq

@tazprime38 - at the latest on Monday  21st January you along with all the other subscribers to the TSO INSIDER will receive a very detailed description of the TPG-30 with pricing to be announced next month when we start shipping. I know you've been waiting - and waiting [tongue] -thank you for your continuing interest and patience.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline jasen

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« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2019, 07:38 PM »
Anyone got their TSO Insider with info? Patiently waiting :)

Offline tazprime38

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« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2019, 07:51 PM »
Anyone got their TSO Insider with info? Patiently waiting :)

No not yet. I keep checking my emails lol.😂 but nothing yet.

Offline Cheese

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« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2019, 08:11 PM »
Got mine [big grin]

Signed up to purchase the $6 jig to retrofit my older TSO units.

Offline ChuckM

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« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2019, 08:17 PM »
Not sure if this is insider info. or not (from Google). It is to me because I no longer have the TS75 [tongue] [tongue]

https://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-guide-rail-squares/tpg-30-parallel-guide/

« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 08:20 PM by ChuckM »

Offline tomp

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« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2019, 08:51 PM »
Hans,

From reading the write-up, it appears that the cut length will be limited to 30". As I have a system for making the initial rip to width in the sheet, my interest in the guide was for making repeatable length cuts after ripping the material to width. I see the reason for fixing the length of the arm so it can be fitted in a Systainer, but a maximum length of 30" is a little restrictive.

Tom

Offline ChuckM

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« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2019, 09:01 PM »
May be they will have the TPG-50 version, etc.?

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2019, 09:18 PM »
Pretty sure I have a 51" cut capable as a prototype.

Tom

Offline RobBob

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« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2019, 09:32 PM »
One of the bullet points on the page linked to above says:

-T-track length choice based- on full sheet yield width: multiples of 11.75” and 15.75”

Offline TSO Products

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« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2019, 10:16 PM »
Hello FOGgers - tomorrow I will respond to every open posted REPLY Starting with # 35.
thansk for all your comments and understandable question.
Trivia for you all: THE TSO Paralllel Guide was originally called TPG-48. As we worked with the prototypes we  could not see any practical application requiring more than 30 inches. So tomorrow, give us specific examples why a cutting width of 30 inches does not allow required practical rip cut widths to be made?
what are you building that requires panels wider than 30"??
FESTOOL PG has shorter rip cut capacity and we did not see a storm or protest that this established product does not cut wide enough.

More tomorrow. good night now

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2019, 10:35 PM »
Hans,

I believe some are considering the 48-50" range for matched cross cuts.

Tom

Offline rj_mccall

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« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2019, 11:38 PM »
Hi Hans,

     Any suggestions for finding the TSO insider within my inbox? It seems some members have received there's however I have not. I tried signing up another email address I had, still no luck!

Thanks

Offline Cheese

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« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2019, 12:24 AM »
     Any suggestions for finding the TSO insider within my inbox? It seems some members have received there's however I have not. I tried signing up another email address I had, still no luck!

Did you check your junk mail?

Offline tallgrass

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« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2019, 12:28 AM »
I am not getting my insider e-mails. Thoughts?

Offline Roachmill

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« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2019, 01:53 AM »
I signed up in advance and haven't heard a peep as yet. I've been checking my spam folder religiously too.

I'd love to hear (and see if possible) about the narrow ripping side of things. I gather there are rods similar to the Woodpecker version but I'd like too know more. In particular, the minimum thickness of stock you can work with while keeping the rail flat and without having to shim under the stock. The Rip Dogs guides I have use Incra track which is about 13mm high going under the track... and that makes narrow rips of thinner material a "creative process".

Offline glass1

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« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2019, 06:12 AM »
Well Hans and Eric, some cabinets are tall. So some panels are 24” +/- and of any height ie vertical orientation. I understand there are limitations to this type of system and cannot truly replace a sliding table saw but you asked.

Offline lerabotperche

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« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2019, 08:51 AM »
what are you building that requires panels wider than 30"??
stuff. We are making stuff. And stuff is every time bigger than expected. So we need bigger stuff to deal with it. This is the story of business.  [big grin] ;)
FESTOOL PG has shorter rip cut capacity and we did not see a storm or protest that this established product does not cut wide enough.
So why make a Festool alternative if it is to do the same ?

Offline Michael Kellough

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« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2019, 09:40 AM »
Well Hans and Eric, some cabinets are tall. So some panels are 24” +/- and of any height ie vertical orientation. I understand there are limitations to this type of system and cannot truly replace a sliding table saw but you asked.

24” is six inches less than the designed capacity.
The other direction is limited only by the guide rail length.

Offline Paul G

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« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2019, 09:57 AM »
what are you building that requires panels wider than 30"??

Full sized fridge depth cabinets as opposed to buying a small cabinet depth fridge
+1

Offline Michael Kellough

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« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2019, 10:16 AM »
what are you building that requires panels wider than 30"??

Full sized fridge depth cabinets as opposed to buying a small cabinet depth fridge

How big is full size?

Offline Papalima

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« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2019, 10:17 AM »
I haven't gotten the email either, even in Junk.

Offline Paul G

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« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2019, 11:14 AM »
what are you building that requires panels wider than 30"??

Full sized fridge depth cabinets as opposed to buying a small cabinet depth fridge

How big is full size?

Exceeding 30 cu ft. After looking at some models at local stores I am planning to build my fridge cabinet to about 32-34” deep (with adjacent pantry the same depth) so these large fridges have plenty of air space in back and aren’t poking so far out.
+1

Offline TSO Products

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« Reply #56 on: January 23, 2019, 12:21 PM »
to all who are missing TSO INSIDER mailing via MailChimp:
if you have not received the expected TSO INSIDER, the quickest and more certain way is to email us info@tsoproducts.com
subject line:
"request TSO INSIDER by email"

Hans
PS: Eric is working on a method for archiving current and past issues on our website but needs to resolve technical difficulties to make it happen.
TSOproducts.com

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« Reply #57 on: January 23, 2019, 01:32 PM »
  @tomp @ChuckM @tjbnwi @RobBob  @glass1 @lerabotperche  @Michael Kellough @Paul G

TPG-50 coming! – we hear you [big grin]
We will make a 50 inch cutting T-Track width version available as a stand-alone SKU for those who need it. Thanks for the examples you had in mind: "Refrigerator cabinet".
We’re producing the extrusions in heat-treated 20 ft + length before all the secondary operations. So the lengths we offer are limited only by practical commerce considerations such as shipping cost – just like the extra long guide rails which need to $hip by LTL truck line. For everyday needs it pays  to keep things under 48 inch max. shipping length to avoid UPS/FedEx length surcharges kicking in at that point. Beyond that: whatever you’re willing to pay for.

Don’t laugh: one of our BETA Testers, Duane H., early on needed a super length track for cross-cutting-to-matched-length paneling boards for a high-end auto dealership interior. The GRS-16 helped him get perfect square and equal length cross cuts. So yes, there are extremes which can, on some projects, justify extreme tools. We will keep a few full length 20 ft extrusions back for just such one-off requirements – seriously, only at TSO  [smile]

Hans
PS: look for another Post addressing Narrow Stock questions
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline ChuckM

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« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2019, 01:52 PM »

Snip.

We will keep a few full length 20 ft extrusions back for just such one-off requirements – seriously, only at TSO  [smile]

Hans
PS: look for another Post addressing Narrow Stock questions

Seriously, the best entrepreneurial spirit on display!

Offline TSO Products

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« Reply #59 on: January 23, 2019, 02:21 PM »
TPG-30 / TPG-50 Narrow Stock capability

@Roachmill @tazprime @dr.r.lam and others remind us to point out that not only do we offer a Narrow Stock capability, but one of the Design Objective we overlooked to mention was that we are able to handle narrow stock as thin as ¼ inch / 6mm material!

For Narrow Stock ripping both RIGHT Hand and LEFT Hand sets are needed just like all other parallel guide systems on the market.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline DynaGlide

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« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2019, 02:44 PM »
@TSO Products So I'm looking at this system and wondering. .probably too late for a design change or if it's even do-able, but how great would it be if it doubled as a fence for the MFT with flip stops when used on the GRS PE mounted to the hinge? As it is now, the parallel edge guide would be in the way of the material being cut going up against the GRS-16 PE. I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting this. It would solve a lot of problems.

Edit: Looking at it more it seems with a simple different flip stop accessory you could use it for this purpose. The material would butt up against the T-track of the parallel guide instead of against the GRS-16 PE. The only downside would be the material would not be supported underneath the guide rail as is the case with the Festool fence. However there are people using Incra or 8020 fences on their MFT's that also have this limitation.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 02:51 PM by DynaGlide »
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline Roachmill

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« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2019, 02:44 PM »
That's great to hear. I've emailed about the insider email so hopefully there's something about it in there. Sounds like a costly option though... a tempting one nonetheless!

Offline tazprime38

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« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2019, 05:52 PM »
  @tomp @ChuckM @tjbnwi @RobBob  @glass1 @lerabotperche  @Michael Kellough @Paul G

TPG-50 coming! – we hear you [big grin]
We will make a 50 inch cutting T-Track width version available as a stand-alone SKU for those who need it. Thanks for the examples you had in mind: "Refrigerator cabinet".
We’re producing the extrusions in heat-treated 20 ft + length before all the secondary operations. So the lengths we offer are limited only by practical commerce considerations such as shipping cost – just like the extra long guide rails which need to $hip by LTL truck line. For everyday needs it pays  to keep things under 48 inch max. shipping length to avoid UPS/FedEx length surcharges kicking in at that point. Beyond that: whatever you’re willing to pay for.

Don’t laugh: one of our BETA Testers, Duane H., early on needed a super length track for cross-cutting-to-matched-length paneling boards for a high-end auto dealership interior. The GRS-16 helped him get perfect square and equal length cross cuts. So yes, there are extremes which can, on some projects, justify extreme tools. We will keep a few full length 20 ft extrusions back for just such one-off requirements – seriously, only at TSO  [smile]

Hans
PS: look for another Post addressing Narrow Stock questions

Hans,

When I had the festool Parallel guides including extensions, I was able to cut just over 900mm capacity by flipping the extensions over and connecting them to the ends of the parallel guides. I would use this set up to cut 900mm lengths of boards ie for shelving etc. I would have used them to cut the side panels for long boxes if I had the extra capacity.

Would it not be possible to join shorter lengths of the extrusions together to give us the extra capacity?

Tariq

Offline tomp

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« Reply #63 on: January 23, 2019, 09:18 PM »
Pretty sure I have a 51" cut capable as a prototype.

Tom

Tom,

Do you find that the set-up for the 51" cut is a little cumbersome, moving the track with the guide attached between cyts? I made one for the Track I was using before I "found" Festool, and it is awkward picking it up off and handling it between cuts, particularly in a small shop like mine. The intent of the longer arm was to allow cutting base cabinet ends - so 34-1/2" capacity would be what I need and I may cut it down to limit that. That particular extrusion can be extended using a connector between the sections so that may be an option if I need more capacity.

The track shown in the photo is from EurekaZone, and I use their UEG for ripping sheets to width - have ripped as narrow as 1-1/2" and commonly up to 23-1/2" for base cabinet ends. I took the Basic Festool course from Greg Paolini; the Festool parallel guide was one of the tools that we were taught to use, but I was honestly not impressed and thought that the UEG was much simpler and easier to use.

It may be that the 30" cut length is enough for a good percentage of the jobs I do, but 36" shelf lengths are pretty common so that would be a problem. I've looked at the home-made parallel guides made by Dan Pattison, and had the idea that one of these guides, combined with the GRS might be an idea for getting consistent, repeatable cut length - clamp the guide to the sheet, butt the LH edge of the track to the guide and the square against the edge of the sheet. You would have to remove and reposition the guide for each cut, but wouldn't have to handle the track with the guide attached each time.




Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #64 on: January 23, 2019, 09:56 PM »
@tomp, it comes off and on the rail so easily I just pop it off and pop it back on. Faster than struggling with it.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #65 on: January 23, 2019, 10:08 PM »
The TPG 48 in the wild......

These are prototypes, thus the difference in color and various hardware.

I use the Gecko on all pre-finished material.

Tom

Offline Pnw painter

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« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2019, 12:52 AM »
Using the gecko on pre-finished materials is a great idea Tom. Recently, I was using pre-finish ply for some drawers and was having issues with the track slipping while I was cutting.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #67 on: January 24, 2019, 08:12 AM »
Using the gecko on pre-finished materials is a great idea Tom. Recently, I was using pre-finish ply for some drawers and was having issues with the track slipping while I was cutting.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

@Pnw painter,

One thing I have done to make the process easier is I've removed the bolts and nuts that retain the Gecko to the rail. This allows me to just drop the Gecko in place and lift it off easily.

Tom

Offline tomp

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« Reply #68 on: January 24, 2019, 09:22 AM »
@tomp, it comes off and on the rail so easily I just pop it off and pop it back on. Faster than struggling with it.

Tom

Thanks for the info, guess I'm going to give it a try.

Offline Mike Goetzke

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« Reply #69 on: January 24, 2019, 09:45 AM »
I'm a recent owner of the GRS-16 PE. I also purchased a used (but looked unused) Woodpeck PGS. Then couple weeks later the TPG is announced  :-\.

I tossed a few ideas at another FOG member Peter_C. I had noticed along with the two threaded holes on the leading/trailing edge of the GRS there were also two 1/4" through holes. Since WP PGS uses a three track extrusion (two on top one on the bottom) it is very simple to attach it to the GRS with a couple of "T" nuts and thumb screws. When required you can additionally use the standard WP arm assembly at the far end for long cuts. Even a very inexpensive Incra dual track works, but, the WP PGS has laser etched rule and can be easily calibrated on the GRS.

The TSO TPS seems to have the advantage of more secure attachment and is one piece but for even a serious hobbyist that already has the WP PGS this may prove to be a great solution.

When I built many cabinets for our kitchen remodel several years ago I purchased a WP story stick system. So I have one piece extrusions of 24" and 48" available to play with.



Mike

Offline Cheese

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« Reply #70 on: January 24, 2019, 09:54 AM »

I use the Gecko on all pre-finished material.


Hey Tom, just to be clear, so you clamp the TSO end to the ply and then place the Gecko on the far end?

I notice there are 2 Geckos in the photo.

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #71 on: January 24, 2019, 06:26 PM »

I use the Gecko on all pre-finished material.


Hey Tom, just to be clear, so you clamp the TSO end to the ply and then place the Gecko on the far end?

I notice there are 2 Geckos in the photo.

With the GRS and the TPG on the entry end I find th rail does not drift. I use the Gecko on the "free" end because it will drift.

I have 6 Gecko’s, booth 4 of them from a member here who was liquidating.

Tom

Offline TSO Products

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« Reply #72 on: January 24, 2019, 10:19 PM »
@TSO Products So I'm looking at this system and wondering. .probably too late for a design change or if it's even do-able, but how great would it be if it doubled as a fence for the MFT with flip stops when used on the GRS PE mounted to the hinge? As it is now, the parallel edge guide would be in the way of the material being cut going up against the GRS-16 PE. I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting this. It would solve a lot of problems.

Edit: Looking at it more it seems with a simple different flip stop accessory you could use it for this purpose. The material would butt up against the T-track of the parallel guide instead of against the GRS-16 PE. The only downside would be the material would not be supported underneath the guide rail as is the case with the Festool fence. However there are people using Incra or 8020 fences on their MFT's that also have this limitation.
@DynaGlide -  Months ago we used a prototype (anodized blue) TPG-30 and attached it to a GRS-16 PE which was already connected to the MFT/3 Hinge Plate and had the 1080 Guide Rail locked onto it.
A real simple way for repeated crosscuts on the MFT/3 and no longer worrying about keeping anything squared up.
        simple, quick and repeatably accurate: TSO

Thanks for raising the question.
Hans
PS: unable to get the jpg attached with three tries
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline dlu

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« Reply #73 on: January 25, 2019, 03:10 AM »
Anyone got their TSO Insider with info? Patiently waiting :)

Not yet (west coast of the US, so I was expecting to be late to the party, but not this late :-)

Offline TSO Products

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« Reply #74 on: January 25, 2019, 10:05 AM »
@DynaGlide - found out the picture file I was trying to download was too large for the FOG to accept:
here is my earlier response this time with picture:
@DynaGlide -  Months ago we used a prototype (anodized blue) TPG-30 and attached it to a GRS-16 PE which was already connected to the MFT/3 Hinge Plate and had the 1080 Guide Rail locked onto it.
A real simple way for repeated crosscuts on the MFT/3 and no longer worrying about keeping anything squared up.
        simple, quick and repeatably accurate: TSO

Thanks for raising the question.
Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline DynaGlide

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« Reply #75 on: January 25, 2019, 11:51 AM »
So is the scale automatically calibrated to the edge of the guide rails clear strip? This is a great solution.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline ChuckM

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« Reply #76 on: January 25, 2019, 11:54 AM »
Anyone got their TSO Insider with info? Patiently waiting :)

Not yet (west coast of the US, so I was expecting to be late to the party, but not this late :-)

This so-called insider thing is not working. I am not an insider subscriber, but if the intention of the insider mailing is to excite and please subscribers or potential customers, it fails. Instead, it seems to be frustrating or irritating some of those who are insiders.

The system needs to be looked at and fixed. West coast, east coast, if it mattered, should mean delays of hours, not days (I can't imagine the insider mailing list has 100,000 addresses on it). It is an unnecessary distraction when TSO is trying to release a new product.

Offline Mike Goetzke

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« Reply #77 on: January 25, 2019, 12:05 PM »
So is the scale automatically calibrated to the edge of the guide rails clear strip? This is a great solution.

Looks like you need to calibrate this system like others. You can see a bolt in the flip stop - this must need adjustment.

Offline Roachmill

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« Reply #78 on: January 25, 2019, 12:49 PM »
FWIW, I've emailed the info@ address with the subject line above and heard nothing other than an automated acknowledgment of the email. Nothing in spam folder either :(

I'm pretty sure I've signed up tonks ago and never had anything so just assumed they were like hen's teeth. But this time I'm all ears.

Offline grobkuschelig

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« Reply #79 on: January 25, 2019, 02:13 PM »
FWIW, I've emailed the info@ address with the subject line above and heard nothing other than an automated acknowledgment of the email.
Same here...

Offline DynaGlide

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« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2019, 02:42 PM »
So is the scale automatically calibrated to the edge of the guide rails clear strip? This is a great solution.

Looks like you need to calibrate this system like others. You can see a bolt in the flip stop - this must need adjustment.

That's clever. Easy way to adjust for slight variance between different guide rails. This thing is looking pretty tempting to get rid of the MFT fence once and for all.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2019, 03:18 PM »
You have to calibrate the TPG. There is not enough variation between my rails to bother calibrating for each rail.

You calibrate to the saw kerf, doing this allows a higher degree of accuracy. How many here have perfect splinter strips on their rails?

Tom

Offline lerabotperche

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« Reply #82 on: January 25, 2019, 03:47 PM »
someone got the last TSO insider ?  [huh] I've made the request to get it but no news  [sad]

Offline Michael Kellough

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« Reply #83 on: January 25, 2019, 04:20 PM »
You have to calibrate the TPG. There is not enough variation between my rails to bother calibrating for each rail.

You calibrate to the saw kerf, doing this allows a higher degree of accuracy. How many here have perfect splinter strips on their rails?

Tom

What do you adjust? Just the stop block?

Offline neilc

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« Reply #84 on: January 25, 2019, 06:25 PM »
TSO email is attached for those that did not receive it...


It's about 3mb  in size so give it a minute to open/download.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 06:34 PM by neilc »

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #85 on: January 25, 2019, 06:29 PM »
You have to calibrate the TPG. There is not enough variation between my rails to bother calibrating for each rail.

You calibrate to the saw kerf, doing this allows a higher degree of accuracy. How many here have perfect splinter strips on their rails?

Tom

What do you adjust? Just the stop block?

@Michael Kellough,

Look at the picture TSO posted with the GRS PE on the MFT (reply #74). You’ll see a silver pin contacting the work piece. That is the calibration pin.

Tom

Offline lerabotperche

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« Reply #86 on: January 26, 2019, 03:40 AM »
TSO email is attached for those that did not receive it...


It's about 3mb  in size so give it a minute to open/download.
[thanks]

Offline TSO Products

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« Reply #87 on: January 26, 2019, 12:31 PM »
link to  TSO INSIDER Archive including TPG Parallel Guide:
       https://us14.campaign-archive.com/home/?u=a153fd474bc42913d95001814&id=1b1e11f7db

All the information we have published so far can be seen via this link.
Resolving the MailChimp emailing issues will take time.

We will post a REPLY on this FOG thread when we have more specific information and how to access it if it goes beyond what is appropriate for posting here.

thanks for your interest and patience!
Hans and especially Eric
(-who has been working behind the scenes dealing with these communication matters)
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Offline simonh

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« Reply #88 on: January 26, 2019, 05:31 PM »
It would be quite nice if instead of multiple track lengths if the tracks were broken down to sections and then bolted together like the Woodpecker parallel guide. Very easy to get the right length for any job and much easier for shipping internationally.

Offline TSO Products

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« Reply #89 on: January 26, 2019, 10:53 PM »
@simonh – your comment is the perfect opportunity to talk about design goals and priorities. We start design with the realization that there will be trade-offs. In the case of the TPG System we ranked its ease of function and performance while in use* as the topmost criteria, outranking such other considerations as cost of shipping (within reason) and storage – for example.

*(while in use means the time from reaching for the tool when you realize it is needed until you return it to its normal resting place).

Based on user feedback we sought the most direct way to get from picking up the Parallel Guide tool to cutting. We targeted the elimination of
•   non-essential small parts
•   the infamous “some assembly required” and “disassembly required” with tools
•   risk of assembled elements becoming loose or out of adjustment or calibration
•   wasted time

The result is a product that, above all, is ready for Action and deactivation in seconds rather than minutes – and reactivation with razor sharp repeatable accuracy without loss of calibration – again in seconds not minutes.
For professional trades people time is money. For hobby woodworkers time is THE finite quantity – you can’t get any more and unlike money, you can’t earn anymore or borrow any more time. In fact none of us know how much we have left. So you can see how highly we rank expected performance .

Some will have different priorities and choose other solutions accordingly.

The TPG-20 LEFT- and RIGHT Hand elements will fit in a SYSTAINER with their GRS-16’s.
The TPG-30 can remain fully assembled with its FlipStop(s) and stored just like a larger T-Square or similar tool. This longer tool and its TPG-50 stable mate can also be slipped into the Storage- and Transport Bag we will introduce.

We expect over time quite a few woodworkers will have more than one TPG track and FlipStop Assembly set up for specific types of jobs. Just like GRS-16 PE’s are finding dedicated jobs in woodshops while its twin is used for various other jobs in order to save time and save set-ups.

Thank you for providing the opportunity to explain our design aims.
Keep the comments and questions coming.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

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Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #90 on: January 26, 2019, 11:10 PM »
It would be quite nice if instead of multiple track lengths if the tracks were broken down to sections and then bolted together like the Woodpecker parallel guide. Very easy to get the right length for any job and much easier for shipping internationally.

This is why you want a single rail.

Tom

Offline simonh

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« Reply #91 on: January 27, 2019, 03:40 AM »
Hans, thanks for clarifying your design decisions.

I have the Precision dogs parallel guide and so have a couple of different track lengths. Most of the time the 48" track lengths aren't used so kick around the workshop and don't pack away easily. Also with only a single set of rail connectors there is a time investment in swapping over to the longer tracks. 

I noted that a TPG-56 is been proposed with a longer 56"guide. I'm not sure what would be involved in swapping over to the 56" guide for those odd jobs.  My thought was that an additional 20" length would convert a TPG-36 to TPG-56 and still pack away/ship easily.  I'm sure the problems with the Woodpecker style connector could be overcome with some proper engineering that make the rails positively clip together securely, or having a TSO style level connector between the two rails would pull them together tightly and stop the gap appearing like Tom posted with the Woodpecker (or even machined threaded holes in the rails and connectors rather than relying on the pressure of the grub screws). I would find even longer lengths useful when using the GRS-16PE for repeatable cross-cutting doors and cabinet parts to specific lengths.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 03:45 AM by simonh »

Offline DynaGlide

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« Reply #92 on: January 27, 2019, 07:44 AM »
I think it's inevitable that a 48 or 50 inch length gets dedicated to my mft with the grs pe permanently mounted to the mft hinge and guide rail. Flip out of the way, removable fence for unquestionable square and accurate repeat cross cuts.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #93 on: January 27, 2019, 10:17 AM »
Hans, thanks for clarifying your design decisions.

I have the Precision dogs parallel guide and so have a couple of different track lengths. Most of the time the 48" track lengths aren't used so kick around the workshop and don't pack away easily. Also with only a single set of rail connectors there is a time investment in swapping over to the longer tracks. 

I noted that a TPG-56 is been proposed with a longer 56"guide. I'm not sure what would be involved in swapping over to the 56" guide for those odd jobs.  My thought was that an additional 20" length would convert a TPG-36 to TPG-56 and still pack away/ship easily.  I'm sure the problems with the Woodpecker style connector could be overcome with some proper engineering that make the rails positively clip together securely, or having a TSO style level connector between the two rails would pull them together tightly and stop the gap appearing like Tom posted with the Woodpecker (or even machined threaded holes in the rails and connectors rather than relying on the pressure of the grub screws). I would find even longer lengths useful when using the GRS-16PE for repeatable cross-cutting doors and cabinet parts to specific lengths.

To swap between rail lengths, remove two lobbed bolts, set 56" rail in place, install two lobbed bolts, transfer stop to 56" rail-----done. Took longer to type this than swap rails.

Tom

Offline dr.r.lam

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« Reply #94 on: January 29, 2019, 03:33 PM »
Any word as to when pre-orders open?

Offline TSO_Products

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« Reply #95 on: January 29, 2019, 09:53 PM »
@dr.r.lam - and others:
We hear you!
- look for an announcement January 31 on this FOG thread of a INTRODUCTORY PRICING OFFER for Early Adopters to ship mid-February ahead of the full production launch in March.

Hans and Eric

Offline jasen

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« Reply #96 on: January 31, 2019, 01:13 AM »
Just looked at the TSO website and the TPG-30R has been added.
The difference is that the TPG-30 includes 1x 20inch T-track and 1x Narrow Stock Rod.

What is the advantage of  20 inch track - so it can stay in the systainer and always connected to the narrow stock Rod for convenience and always calibrated?

Could I just buy the 30 inch T-track and use it for narrow stock? (Ill be buying TPG-30 regardless)

Any chance of beta users showing a video and hands on experience?

Excellent product that I just can't wait to use

Well done TSO!

Offline dr.r.lam

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« Reply #97 on: January 31, 2019, 01:43 AM »
Just looked at the TSO website and the TPG-30R has been added.
The difference is that the TPG-30 includes 1x 20inch T-track and 1x Narrow Stock Rod.



I think the TPG-30 (regardless of L or R versions) comes with the 30" track.
The 20" track and Narrow Stock rods are optional extras.
If you pre-order the TPG-30, it comes with discount coupons for the 20" track and narrow stock rods I think (which you can purchase when they are released later).


I think the optional extras of additional track and flip-stops allow people to have several sets with pre-set dimensions (rather than adjusting all the time).

Offline jasen

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« Reply #98 on: January 31, 2019, 02:00 AM »
TPG-30 is $129 included 20 inch with Narrow stock Rod
TPG-30R (and I suspect TPG-30L) is $109

Maybe the TPG-30 product shouldnt be there?

Youre right though, thats what I was thinking, but if you compare the 2 products the diference is whats stated but then 

The Narrow stock rod must be bought with the 20inch T-track?

Makes sensehaving 2 tracks for normal and offset cuts

Offline Pnw painter

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« Reply #99 on: January 31, 2019, 02:18 AM »
I'm amazed that there parallel guides aren't a lot more expensive. Awesome!!! I can't wait to place my order.

Offline dr.r.lam

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« Reply #100 on: January 31, 2019, 02:20 AM »
I am eagerly awaiting the post from Hans and Eric to tell me how I can give them my hard earned money.

Offline simonh

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« Reply #101 on: January 31, 2019, 04:59 AM »
Hans,

Can you clarify what length the final production model lengths will be?

I presume they will be with your international resellers later in the year?

I need a L version for use with the MFT attached GRS-16PE behind the stock?  An R version if using the square infront of the stock?

When you swap rails is any calibration needed or is this a one-time setup done on the stops rather than with the rails?



Offline Mike Goetzke

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« Reply #102 on: January 31, 2019, 08:41 AM »
I'm amazed that there parallel guides aren't a lot more expensive. Awesome!!! I can't wait to place my order.

I bought a GRS-16 PE rail square from TSO at the end of last year and really like it. Haven't used it yet for long rips yet. I'm excited about this new offering too but as far as cost remember to add the cost of the square and if it ends up an additional guide/square is required at the far end of the work piece this solution becomes more expensive than others. Not bashing the product - I most likely will purchase one.

Mike

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #103 on: January 31, 2019, 08:57 AM »
I have a couple of videos that were used to communicate various ideas with TSO. I'll see if we can't get some others done for general consumption.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #104 on: January 31, 2019, 09:04 AM »
I was asked elsewhere how the system references, someone thought there was a spacer necessary. A couple of pictures of the GRS/TPG without a rail on the GRS.

Tom

Offline Mike Goetzke

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« Reply #105 on: January 31, 2019, 09:22 AM »
@TSO_Products

Hans/Eric - after seeing so many posts by Tom on this I want a BLUE one!

Will the production version have a steel rule like Tom's?

Thanks,
Mike

Offline TSO Products

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« Reply #106 on: January 31, 2019, 10:00 AM »
@Mike Goetzke - the production TPG will have the scales laser engraved - you can see detail in one of the thumbnails on our website:

https://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-guide-rail-squares/tpg-30-r-parallel-guide/

Hans
TSOproducts.com

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Online Sanderxpander

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« Reply #107 on: January 31, 2019, 11:24 AM »
Do you ship internationally? Any idea of cost to The Netherlands? I know GereedschapPro BV stocks your products but I'd rather enjoy the early adopter price. Or will that be available from them as well?

Offline Michael Kellough

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« Reply #108 on: January 31, 2019, 01:40 PM »
@Mike Goetzke - the production TPG will have the scales laser engraved - you can see detail in one of the thumbnails on our website:

https://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-guide-rail-squares/tpg-30-r-parallel-guide/

Hans

@Hans , this picture shows dual metric/imperial scales but the imperial only goes down to 1/16”. Tom’s prototype only has imperial but down to 1/32”. I’d rather have imperial only if that’s the only way to get the finer increment. 1/32” is .008” finer than 1mm. When we have to work in imperial it makes a difference.

Offline lerabotperche

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« Reply #109 on: January 31, 2019, 02:15 PM »
any news about the GRC-12 ?

Offline TSO Products

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« Reply #110 on: January 31, 2019, 07:51 PM »
Responding to all:
we have listed the configuration contents of all the TPG elements on the TSO website.
https://tsoproducts.com/tpg-parallel-guide-system/

We just discovered that our eCommerce platform has a glitch that will not let us display Regular Price and Sale Price.  [sad]
So prices now shown are INTRODUCTORY SALE PRICES only and subject to change without notice. As soon as we can resolve the website issue we will address the pricing display limitation and add the missing product pictures next week [smile]

@jasen
•   20 inch Track advantage: ease of handling when making narrower cuts for shelf uprights and shelves and Upper Cabinets, for example. Also fits into SYSTAINER with FlipStop attached at set location for re-use tomorrow. Nothing to do with Narrow Stock Rod.
•   30 inch Track can be used for Narrow Stock which requires use of both LEFT and RIGHT Hand Tracks since there is not enough material width to reference squareness with GRS.

@dr.r.lam    you are correct: offering the choice of purchasing extra Track and FlipStops is intended to provide flexibility to match your TPG to your current project needs – including having several pieces dedicated to particular settings since it is so easy and quick to change out Track assemblies with FlipStop set.

@Pnw painter with an eye to provide value we have chosen to offer parts of the system to reduce the outlay required to get more productive with particular jobs. Buy ‘em as your job requires😊

@dr.r.lam you will be able to place your EARLY ADOPTER order online as soon as we have product ready to ship mid February. If you have signed up, you’ll automatically be notified.

@simonh let’s refer to the TPG tracks in terms of the cut length they enable: nominal 20, 30 and 50 inch respectively. Actually the FlipStop can be moved beyond that length a bit but we avoid odd numbers in product naming. There is always a longer dimension available if needed. @simonh – you can order the 50 inch T-track LEFT Hand so you can use your MFT/3 for cross and cut-to-length operation in step.
Calibration relates to the Guide Rail and saw blade being used. Really a once in  along time adjustment. What we hear is that most woodworkers don’t re-calibrate unless the splinter guard is replaced or similar change occurs. Assuming that your parallel guide itself stay adjusted! It seems smart to have all your Guide Rails producing the same cut width – standardize.

@Sanderxpander - Yes, this product will be available through our International Dealers  when in full production except the EARLY ADOPTER available quantity is so limited as to restrict it to TSO online orders only.

@Mike Goetzke – about tool cost: remember the TPG can do a LOT more and do it a LOT more efficiently and reliably accurate. If a woodworker uses FESTOOL or MAKITA track saws he really should invest in at least one GRS-16 first. That is so basic it should not figure into the Parallel Guide cost.
@tjbnwi – a live video clip of the TPG in use in your shop would be a great benefit if you can someone else to hold the camera-phone while you set up and cut!

@Michael Kellough –  no plans to engrave 1/32” increments. Our customer input tells us the critical part is repeatability of the cut rather than a specific dimension.

@lerabotperche – GRC-12 is on a different thread on the FOG – more  there in March.

Hans and Eric
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Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #111 on: January 31, 2019, 08:45 PM »
For those who want 1/32, it's easy to do, the pointer is 1/16", split the 16ths marks.

Tom

Offline Michael Kellough

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« Reply #112 on: January 31, 2019, 09:19 PM »
For those who want 1/32, it's easy to do, the pointer is 1/16", split the 16ths marks.

Tom

What I want to do is split 32nds.

Has a picture of the pointer been posted?

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #113 on: January 31, 2019, 09:26 PM »
For those who want 1/32, it's easy to do, the pointer is 1/16", split the 16ths marks.

Tom

What I want to do is split 32nds.

Has a picture of the pointer been posted?

@Michael Kellough

You can, with or without the marks. I bet just looking at a measurement on a tape you can distinguish the 32nds and less.

These are the pictures I have.

Tom


Offline Michael Kellough

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« Reply #114 on: January 31, 2019, 09:44 PM »
Thanks for the very helpful pics Tom!

Maybe I can add a kind of vernier curser but I’ll still be jealous of your 1/32 rule.

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #115 on: January 31, 2019, 09:46 PM »
Thanks for the very helpful pics Tom!

Maybe I can add a kind of vernier curser but I’ll still be jealous of your 1/32 rule.

I think you'll find you will be very happy with TSO curser.

Tom

Offline box185

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« Reply #116 on: January 31, 2019, 10:12 PM »
What I want to do is split 32nds.

Has a picture of the pointer been posted?

I’m with you - maybe an after-market ruler from this website can be used to replace what you would get from TSO . . .

https://oregonrule.com/

Offline dr.r.lam

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« Reply #117 on: February 01, 2019, 12:16 AM »
You will be able to place your EARLY ADOPTER order online as soon as we have product ready to ship mid February.


Amazing! Can't wait.

Offline Papalima

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« Reply #118 on: February 01, 2019, 08:05 AM »
Is there any update to the email list issues?  I've tried a couple of times and emailed in to support ( received the basic system reply ) but haven't gotten any emails ( checked Junk ).

Offline dr.r.lam

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« Reply #119 on: February 01, 2019, 12:19 PM »
Is there any update to the email list issues?

I think they're still having issues with their mailing list provider.

Offline TSO Products

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« Reply #120 on: February 01, 2019, 12:28 PM »
Subject: TSO INSIDER email delivery

WE have been in touch with MailChimp, our distribution provider for the TSO INSIDER.

We have taken one step TSO can undertake: we changed our DNS to show the TSO INSIDER coming from TSOProducts.com rather than MailChimp. This was done to reduce the likelihood that SPAM filters consider MailChimp as an unwanted sender.

You, if interested in receiving email from TSO Products, need to add  the following to your address book
info@tsoproducts.com

WE will continue to monitor our email distribution. We expect that this is one more area we need to continue to devote time and resources to. WE don't expect any quick and easy solutions but we'll stay after it for both our beenfit.
TSOproducts.com

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Online Sanderxpander

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« Reply #121 on: February 01, 2019, 12:41 PM »
Sooo... If the preorders are only available through your own website, does that mean you'll ship internationally? Or is that deal only for US residents?

Offline TSO Products

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« Reply #122 on: February 01, 2019, 10:23 PM »
Sooo... If the preorders are only available through your own website, does that mean you'll ship internationally? Or is that deal only for US residents?

@Sanderxpander - we will ship on-line orders internationally when we have production on the shelf ready-to ship. At the moment we are not set up to process "pre-orders" - just taking names for notification when product is in stock.

The Early Adopter offer applies to a limited amount of finished product  we will be able to ship this month. This short program will be replaced in late March by a full-line introductory offer covering the whole menu of TPG System elements.

The full TPG line will also be available through our international dealers.

The lively interest spurs us on - really does [smile]

Hans and Eric
TSOproducts.com

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Offline manuc

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« Reply #123 on: February 01, 2019, 10:39 PM »
I was wondering if I could get more clarification on the offerings that are on the website. I’ve tried reading this thread and website but still can’t figure it out.

Can you explain the difference between:
TPG 30 (SKU:61-353) and TPG 20 & 30 Left/Right Hand Parallel Guide (SKU:61-352 & 61-351)

Also what’s the difference between:
TPG 30 R (SKU:61-350) and TPG 20 & 30 Right Hand Parallel  Guide (SKU:61-351) other than the 20 in track and narrow stock rod.

My intention is to get the entire set, both sides (20, 30, and 50 when available). Would I just need to purchase the TPG 30 (SKU:61-353) first and then purchase the 20 in and 50 in tracks separate?

Sorry I tried reading all the descriptions but still came out confused... [blink]

Thanks!

Offline TSO Products

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« Reply #124 on: February 01, 2019, 11:43 PM »
@manuc - if you were to purchase "the entire set, both sides (20, 30, and 50 when available)" the total would be $ 324.85 introductory pricing.
Give us a few days to resolve the image difficulties on our website and it will become a lot easier- thank for bearing with us at the moment.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

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Offline rmhinden

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« Reply #125 on: February 01, 2019, 11:57 PM »
Hans,

Looking at the pictures on the TSO web site, I was thinking that the TSO parallel guide could also be used with the LR32 system.   An offset would have to be used when setting the scales.   Unlike the Festool guide rails, the TSO ones could be left in place making it easier to drill holes in multiple boards without having to reset the guide rails.

Is that something you have looked into?

Thanks,
Bob

Offline Farming_Sawyer

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« Reply #126 on: February 02, 2019, 08:31 AM »
Hans,

Looking at the pictures on the TSO web site, I was thinking that the TSO parallel guide could also be used with the LR32 system.   An offset would have to be used when setting the scales.   Unlike the Festool guide rails, the TSO ones could be left in place making it easier to drill holes in multiple boards without having to reset the guide rails.

Is that something you have looked into?

Thanks,
Bob

I regularly do this with my precision dogs' parallel system... I think it would be a great idea to have different length arms as part of a set. I have one set of 24" arms and am regularly wishing for 12 or 18" or 36" for all the different things I do....
CT 26E, RO125, sys-mft, sys-toolbox, a bunch of 30 year old tools I'm looking to replace.

Offline manuc

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« Reply #127 on: February 02, 2019, 11:55 AM »
@manuc - if you were to purchase "the entire set, both sides (20, 30, and 50 when available)" the total would be $ 324.85 introductory pricing.
Give us a few days to resolve the image difficulties on our website and it will become a lot easier- thank for bearing with us at the moment.

Hans

Thanks Hans. Unfortunately I purchased the Insta RailSquare before I new TSO made one. Now I’ll have to try and sell that and purchase your set. Look forward to seeing all the images.

Offline TSO_Products

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« Reply #128 on: February 02, 2019, 04:52 PM »
Hans,

Looking at the pictures on the TSO web site, I was thinking that the TSO parallel guide could also be used with the LR32 system.   An offset would have to be used when setting the scales.   Unlike the Festool guide rails, the TSO ones could be left in place making it easier to drill holes in multiple boards without having to reset the guide rails.

Is that something you have looked into?

Thanks,
Bob

I regularly do this with my precision dogs' parallel system... I think it would be a great idea to have different length arms as part of a set. I have one set of 24" arms and am regularly wishing for 12 or 18" or 36" for all the different things I do....

@rmhinden @Farming-Sawyer @manuc  YES, the use of the LR-32 is envisioned actually beginning just with the GRS-16 for dado-ing. Now we need someone to show how they;ll use it with the LR-32 for shelf pin hole setting.
Thanks for bringing that up. Maybe we can persuade @Poplar Shop to come out of YouTube retirement and show how [smile]

Hans

Offline TSO_Products

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« Reply #129 on: February 02, 2019, 05:02 PM »
Pricing details for the complete category available now for all configurations:
https://tsoproducts.com/tpg-parallel-guide-system/

Complete TPG-50 System description, picture and price :
https://tsoproducts.com/tso-guide-rail-squares/tpg-50-parallel-guide/

thanks for all the questions and suggestions which help steer us to get the required information into a usable format. There are undoubtedly still some unanswered questions as we work to update the product pages for the individual a-la-carte elements purchased separately.

More to come.
Hans and Eric

Offline Peter Halle

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« Reply #130 on: February 02, 2019, 05:02 PM »
@TSO Products you might want to reach out to @Brice Burrell for help.  He came up with some really cool ideas with the Festool parallel guides years ago.

Peter

Offline dr.r.lam

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« Reply #131 on: February 02, 2019, 05:57 PM »
Pricing details for the complete category available now for all configurations:
https://tsoproducts.com/tpg-parallel-guide-system/

More to come.
Hans and Eric

So we have the Left OR Right TPG-30 priced at $130, and the combination Left And Right TPG-30 and 50 priced at $325.

I can't work out why the combination is $65 more than 2x the individual left and right sets. What is included as extras?

Offline Peter Halle

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« Reply #132 on: February 02, 2019, 06:18 PM »
Pricing details for the complete category available now for all configurations:
https://tsoproducts.com/tpg-parallel-guide-system/

More to come.
Hans and Eric

So we have the Left OR Right TPG-30 priced at $130, and the combination Left And Right TPG-30 and 50 priced at $325.

I can't work out why the combination is $65 more than 2x the individual left and right sets. What is included as extras?

Don't know.  Perhaps contacting them via email might get you answers you wish.

Peter

Offline TSO_Products

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« Reply #133 on: February 02, 2019, 06:28 PM »
Pricing details for the complete category available now for all configurations:
https://tsoproducts.com/tpg-parallel-guide-system/

More to come.
Hans and Eric

So we have the Left OR Right TPG-30 priced at $130, and the combination Left And Right TPG-30 and 50 priced at $325.

I can't work out why the combination is $65 more than 2x the individual left and right sets. What is included as extras?

@dr.r.lam - the difference is the inclusion of a pair of 50 inch T-tracks
Hans

Offline tomp

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« Reply #134 on: February 02, 2019, 06:48 PM »
Hans,

I have to admit that I'm a little puzzled by the pricing also.

The TPG 30R (no 20" track or long stop) @ $129.95 - is this correct?

The TPG 20 & 30 L or R (with 20" track and long stop) @ $129.95

The TPG 30 L & R (with 20" track and long stop) @ $324.95  - would think that this would be around $260 (or 2X $129.95)

The TPG 50 (everything) @ $324.95 - this makes sense as the total of the $260 for both TPG 30's + $65 for the (2) 50" tracks


Tom

Offline TSO Products

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« Reply #135 on: February 02, 2019, 10:32 PM »
@tomp  - @dr.l.lam  -no wonder you are puzzled. the a-la-carte pricing table somehow did not translate to the product category page.
We will figure out on Sunday why it doesn't show - and see we get it to go live. I'll post an update here after I have verified it's up live.

Hans

PS: just tried to attach the pricing table and it would not accept it - same problem with pictures lately - hmm
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Offline Pompeio

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« Reply #136 on: February 02, 2019, 11:18 PM »
Hans: your website is confusing. 

It appears the following are included:
TPG 20 & 30 R ($129.95) includes right hand 20 and 30 T-Tracks, 1 flip stop, a calibration rod and two attachment knobs.
TPG 20 & 30 L ($129.95) includes left hand 20 and 30 T-Tracks, 1 flip stop, a calibration rod and two attachment knobs.
TPG 30 Early Adopter ($129.95) includes right hand 30 track, 1 flip stop, a calibration rod and two attachment knobs.
TPG 30 ($324.95) includes right and left 20 and and 50 T-Tracks, 2 calibration rods and 4 attachment knobs.

It looks as if the Early Adopter purchaser will get the 20 T-Track in March/April which, at that time, gives you the TPG 30 R set.  I thought I saw that "early adopters" would pay $109.95 and would get a coupon for the 20 and calibration rod at a discounted price but I cannot, however, find where I previously saw this offer. 
I also do not understand why anyone would purchase the TPG 30 for $324.95 when the TPG 50 set provides all of the items included in the TPG 30 set plus the 50 track.

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« Reply #137 on: February 03, 2019, 07:45 AM »
@Pompeio  - did you see the price list attachment on REPLY # 135? - without that visibility it is confusing.
We're hard at work to fix these website issues.

Hans
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Offline Pompeio

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« Reply #138 on: February 03, 2019, 08:30 AM »
Hans
Thank you for the clarification as I missed the attachment.  I am looking forward to giving you some of my money!

Offline supimeister

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« Reply #139 on: February 03, 2019, 08:38 AM »
Hans,

Thanks for attaching the pricing - that clears up most of my confusion. 

I am still confused about what makes the early adopter set, sku #61-350, special?  How is this not identical to 61-351?

Offline Michael Kellough

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« Reply #140 on: February 03, 2019, 10:18 AM »
@supimeister  #61-350 Is a limited time product.
It will be replaced by #61-351 which will cost $149.95.

But you’re right, it’s the same stuff.

Offline supimeister

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« Reply #141 on: February 03, 2019, 01:12 PM »
Hmmm, I'm not sure.  There seems to be more to the story than that. 
All of those items have introductory pricing.  And why have a different sku if both of those skus are identical in their offering and both are currently available to purchase?

Offline TSO_Products

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« Reply #142 on: February 03, 2019, 01:33 PM »
to all:
so as to not over-use the FOG as a communication channel, please note:

We will update and reconfigure our website in the coming days so as to present the product, options and pricing in a way that answers many of the questions being asked without a response on the FOG.

new general questions: please email us: info@tsoproducts.com so we can respond to them in an FAQ section we intend to add to our Product category pages.

Transaction and purchase related questions:  We will reply individually to emails, of course. Remember to add info@tsoproducts.com to your address book!

Lesson learned from this entire TPG "preview" posting:
next time we will wait to share new product information until we have a complete Website product page..

Our heartfelt thank you to all for your input and questions which enable us to do a better job in the future.

Hans and Eric

Offline Koamolly

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« Reply #143 on: February 03, 2019, 01:43 PM »
I’m having trouble following the availability of the parallel guides.  I am on the notification email but have never received any emails.  I thought something was coming in February but I also see a March date.  We'll notify you when item is BACK in stock implies I missed February batch?  Not sure when what part at what price will be available.  I’ve been ready to buy the full package (whatever that is) or partial pieces as they become available.  I have a current project that would benefit from these guides if they become available soon.  I ordered and received the GRS16 and GRS16PE last week so I’m committed.  My understanding is there are no preorders or wait list and when items are in stock will be first come, first served with a notification system that seems a bit sketchy. 

Offline ChuckM

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« Reply #144 on: February 03, 2019, 02:05 PM »

Snip.
We will update and reconfigure our website in the coming days so as to present the product, options and pricing in a way that answers many of the questions being asked without a response on the FOG.


Hans and Eric

That's the right way to fix a presentation problem.

Presenting product information, especially the complex kind involving multiple choices and prices, in a clear and logical manner is a technical skill to be learned and developed.

Here is a simple clarity test: After putting together the sales information that you think is clear to anyone who will read it, ask someone (a family member, a neighbor, etc.) who is NOT involved in the product or, even better, in any woodworking at all to go through the information. If he or she (as a layman) finds any parts that are not clear, work on improving those parts.

The reason why most owner's manuals are unreadable is that they are written, edited and reviewed by the same person(s) before they go to print. Everything written by an author is almost always clear to the author himself or herself!

Edit: Consider using a chart where too many options are difficult to explain clearly in text alone. E.g. http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=72188&cat=1,41080,72156
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 02:12 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Oldwood

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« Reply #145 on: February 03, 2019, 03:00 PM »
One thing that is evident to everyone on FOG but probably not everywhere is that you need 2 TSO GRS-16 squares to use the guides. Although what is included is listed the novice may not be aware that the squares are also required. I think an option to include everything necessary to use the Parallel guides would be useful information. A complete kit.

As Chuck says the chart method would help clear up any confusion.

Looks like a great product!
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #146 on: February 03, 2019, 03:19 PM »
One thing that is evident to everyone on FOG but probably not everywhere is that you need 2 TSO GRS-16 squares to use the guides. Although what is included is listed the novice may not be aware that the squares are also required. I think an option to include everything necessary to use the Parallel guides would be useful information. A complete kit.

As Chuck says the chart method would help clear up any confusion.

Looks like a great product!

Two GRS’s are only needed for cuts less the the guide rail width. All other cuts can be made accurately with a single GRS.

Tom

Online Brian Livingstone

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« Reply #147 on: February 03, 2019, 03:33 PM »

Tom,

Thanks for this.  You answered my one question.

As A GRS16 owner it seems like a no brainer to buy.  Even though I own the Festool parallel guides.

Brian
Kapex, TS75, MFT, OF1010, OF2200, DTS400 REQ, Parallel guide rails, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900, 3000 guide rail, Domino 500, CT36, CT Midi, , RS2E, RO150, Boom Arm, Crown stops, 6 drawer Sortainer, Carvex, Syslite II, Festool safety glasses must start to wear.

Offline Oldwood

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« Reply #148 on: February 03, 2019, 03:44 PM »
One thing that is evident to everyone on FOG but probably not everywhere is that you need 2 TSO GRS-16 squares to use the guides. Although what is included is listed the novice may not be aware that the squares are also required. I think an option to include everything necessary to use the Parallel guides would be useful information. A complete kit.

As Chuck says the chart method would help clear up any confusion.

Looks like a great product!

Two GRS’s are only needed for cuts less the the guide rail width. All other cuts can be made accurately with a single GRS.

Tom

Then you rely on the square only to insure parallel cuts?
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline tazprime38

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« Reply #149 on: February 03, 2019, 05:01 PM »
One thing that is evident to everyone on FOG but probably not everywhere is that you need 2 TSO GRS-16 squares to use the guides. Although what is included is listed the novice may not be aware that the squares are also required. I think an option to include everything necessary to use the Parallel guides would be useful information. A complete kit.

As Chuck says the chart method would help clear up any confusion.

Looks like a great product!

Two GRS’s are only needed for cuts less the the guide rail width. All other cuts can be made accurately with a single GRS.

Tom

Tom am I correct what you said above regarding  two GRS's is when not using the TPG  and the use of the TPG only requires one GRS-16 (PE) ?

Tariq

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #150 on: February 03, 2019, 05:41 PM »
For cuts wider than the guide rail only one GRS or GRS-PE is required.

There needs to be enough purchase of the square on the reference edge of the piece being cut.

The square is accurate enough to use it along the edge and have the rail reach out 90º.

Tom

Offline Oldwood

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« Reply #151 on: February 03, 2019, 06:51 PM »
For cuts wider than the guide rail only one GRS or GRS-PE is required.

There needs to be enough purchase of the square on the reference edge of the piece being cut.

The square is accurate enough to use it along the edge and have the rail reach out 90º.

Tom

I can see in some situations where that would work but I use parallel guides mostly for cutting 8' sheets into strips and I would not rely on the square for that.

Thanks
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline tjbnwi

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« Reply #152 on: February 03, 2019, 06:53 PM »
For cuts wider than the guide rail only one GRS or GRS-PE is required.

There needs to be enough purchase of the square on the reference edge of the piece being cut.

The square is accurate enough to use it along the edge and have the rail reach out 90º.

Tom

I can see in some situations where that would work but I use parallel guides mostly for cutting 8' sheets into strips and I would not rely on the square for that.

Thanks

If they're less than 7-1/2" I recommend two PG's

We rip 8-24" wide strips daily with a single GRS-16. I do have a PE.

Tom

Offline manuc

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« Reply #153 on: February 03, 2019, 07:09 PM »
I have a general question about the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE. I didn’t want to start a new thread.

I’m planning on purchasing both. I got to thinking, would it be better to purchase two GRS-16 PE’s?  Is there any advantage of the GRS-16 over the GRS-16 PE? I know the PE can be used on both sides of the rail with no issues. Just wondering what the advantage/disadvantage is.

Thanks!

Offline Peter Halle

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« Reply #154 on: February 03, 2019, 08:22 PM »
I have both.  If I was purchasing them today I would go for 2 of the PE.  Only for the reason that they are more versatile.

Peter

Online Sanderxpander

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« Reply #155 on: February 04, 2019, 04:44 AM »
The PE is more expensive. There is no other drawback that I can think of. 95 percent of the time you can use the regular one because you will be able to reference from the starting cut side. But if money is no object the PE is more versatile.

Offline Mike Goetzke

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« Reply #156 on: February 04, 2019, 09:23 AM »
@manuc

I now have a TSO square - a GRS-16 PE. I had a square with my previous track saw system and it had a top handle. Many times it is easier to use the square on the far end of the board and pull it tight toward you. This requires the PE. If I thought I need two I would buy two PE's, just so I could use both the same way.

Mike

Offline SRSemenza

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« Reply #157 on: February 04, 2019, 10:01 AM »
One reason for the non-PE ............ I chose it because I didn't want the other   point   sticking out from the table edge. I think I would be bumping it or hooking something on it often.  In my case the way my cutting set up is situated it would be right where I move while cutting.

But it would certainly be good to be able to put the square on the opposite end.

Seth

Offline Cheese

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« Reply #158 on: February 04, 2019, 11:00 AM »
I got to thinking, would it be better to purchase two GRS-16 PE’s?  Is there any advantage of the GRS-16 over the GRS-16 PE? I know the PE can be used on both sides of the rail with no issues. Just wondering what the advantage/disadvantage is.

I think a lot of us have both versions because the non-PE version was the first one offered. Then about 9-12 months later, Hans offered the PE version for a few shekels more.

The PE version is more versatile while the non-PE version is also 5/8" longer.

I store the PE with the TSC vertically & the non-PE with the HKC horizontally.

Offline Koamolly

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« Reply #159 on: February 04, 2019, 11:25 AM »
I got to thinking, would it be better to purchase two GRS-16 PE’s?  Is there any advantage of the GRS-16 over the GRS-16 PE? I know the PE can be used on both sides of the rail with no issues. Just wondering what the advantage/disadvantage is.

I think a lot of us have both versions because the non-PE version was the first one offered. Then about 9-12 months later, Hans offered the PE version for a few shekels more.

The PE version is more versatile while the non-PE version is also 5/8" longer.

I store the PE with the TSC vertically & the non-PE with the HKC horizontally.

I just purchased the pair.  The current PE and non-PE are the same length.


Online Sanderxpander

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« Reply #160 on: February 04, 2019, 12:21 PM »
@manuc

I now have a TSO square - a GRS-16 PE. I had a square with my previous track saw system and it had a top handle. Many times it is easier to use the square on the far end of the board and pull it tight toward you. This requires the PE. If I thought I need two I would buy two PE's, just so I could use both the same way.

Mike
You can still do this with the regular GRS 16 by walking around your workpiece.
But I still agree the PE is slightly more versatile.

Offline Cheese

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« Reply #161 on: February 04, 2019, 11:43 PM »

The PE version is more versatile while the non-PE version is also 5/8" longer.


After I posted the above response today, Hans from TSO contacted me and added this insight to the discussion. I feel this is an easy way to determine early product from later product..and that's good.  [big grin]

"Nick, last year we made minor dimensional changes making the overall length of GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE identical so they would both fit straight rather than angled into the SYSTAINER 1 flat, one on top of the other as well as fitting behind the saw in the taller SYSTAINER.

We made that change in part because field experience had shown there is no discernible accuracy difference by slightly reducing the overall length of these tools. There also was never any customer question whether that 15+inches (almost 16 inches) length was sufficient. We went for that length because that was the "proven" length of the BIESEMEYER tablesaw fence and figured it would be hard for anyone to argue with that success."


So this explains why, as I noted in my response above, the new PE version stores vertically while the early non-PE version will only store horizontally.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 09:10 AM by Cheese »

Offline manuc

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« Reply #162 on: February 09, 2019, 10:15 AM »
Just a heads up, unless you already knew..., I talked with Eric at TSO and he said that the advantage of the GRS-16 over the GRS-16PE is that it will cut a 45 degree angle. He said that it was shortened a while back so that a 45 could be cut. The response that @Cheese posted explains the shortened length and accuracy.

I didn’t see anything on the TSO website about cutting a 45. That should probably be mentioned so people like me don’t pester them. 

So I’ll be purchasing one of each instead of 2 PE’s.

Offline tazprime38

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« Reply #163 on: February 09, 2019, 02:59 PM »
Just a heads up, unless you already knew..., I talked with Eric at TSO and he said that the advantage of the GRS-16 over the GRS-16PE is that it will cut a 45 degree angle. He said that it was shortened a while back so that a 45 could be cut. The response that @Cheese posted explains the shortened length and accuracy.

I didn’t see anything on the TSO website about cutting a 45. That should probably be mentioned so people like me don’t pester them. 

So I’ll be purchasing one of each instead of 2 PE’s.

That is interesting. Hans mentioned in the past  either here or in an email that they had originally looked into this but decided against declaring that a 45° could becut due to accuracy issues.

The Canadian knock off of the TSO  GRS -16  is sold with this feature.

Hopefully Hans or Eric @TSO_Products  wil update us on this. 

Offline TSO Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #164 on: February 09, 2019, 09:59 PM »
Just a heads up, unless you already knew..., I talked with Eric at TSO and he said that the advantage of the GRS-16 over the GRS-16PE is that it will cut a 45 degree angle. He said that it was shortened a while back so that a 45 could be cut. The response that @Cheese posted explains the shortened length and accuracy.

I didn’t see anything on the TSO website about cutting a 45. That should probably be mentioned so people like me don’t pester them. 

So I’ll be purchasing one of each instead of 2 PE’s.

That is interesting. Hans mentioned in the past  either here or in an email that they had originally looked into this but decided against declaring that a 45° could becut due to accuracy issues.

The Canadian knock off of the TSO  GRS -16  is sold with this feature.

Hopefully Hans or Eric @TSO_Products  wil update us on this.


@manuc @tazprime about cutting 45 degree angles with The GRS-16:

As TSO’s Eric explained to @manuc, the GRS-16 will definitely cut a 45 degree angle, BUT the practicality of that for every day woodworking does not come up to our standards. For that reason we have not publicized this capability, leaving that claim to the “other folks”.

Look at the pictures and do some mental gymnastics with the two different positions of the GRS-16 and perhaps you’ll understand that it will work in certain circumstances, especially when used with our 15 inch precision Clamping Angle attached.But it’s easy to run out of reference edge contact with your workpiece.  Quite limited.

On the other hand the MTR-18 Triangle offers some real choices. But that's another thread on another day.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline tomp

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #165 on: February 10, 2019, 06:18 AM »
Hans,

My early model GRS does not have the tapped holes on the hypotenuse leg - can these be added using the same drill jig for adding the holes for the TPG?

Thanks,

Tom

Offline TSO Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #166 on: February 10, 2019, 09:40 AM »
Hans,

My early model GRS does not have the tapped holes on the hypotenuse leg - can these be added using the same drill jig for adding the holes for the TPG?

Thanks,

Tom

@tomp - thanks for the question. YES, using our Drill Fixture for adding the M6 hole pattern to the hypotenuse of an earlier GRS-16 will work. We will include that in the instructions with the Drill Fixture.
Our 15" Angle Accessory will be helpful when making 45 degree cuts. 
               https://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-guide-rail-squares/angle-accessory/

But do some dry runs and lay out examples of cuts you want to make to see how the guide rail and  the GRS-16 are placed relative to your particular work piece shape and size. We want you to understand the limitations of such a set-up before spending time and money.
We just need to get the fixture on our website while packaging the first batch of fixtures which are already done.

Hans
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Offline tomp

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #167 on: February 10, 2019, 12:47 PM »
Hans,

Thanks for the information. I can see how the set-up would have some significant limitations, fortunately I have another method that's a little more user friendly.

Tom

Offline glass1

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #168 on: February 10, 2019, 03:25 PM »
From here it looks like the tso parallel guide suffers from the same clumsy ness as the Festool. That the guide stops have to be at the ends of the material being cut. What makes the Seneca and woodpecker easier to handle is that the guide rails that connect to the cutting rails can be at at any distance as they rest on top of what they are cutting as opposed to be at the ends.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #169 on: February 10, 2019, 03:54 PM »
From here it looks like the tso parallel guide suffers from the same clumsy ness as the Festool. That the guide stops have to be at the ends of the material being cut. What makes the Seneca and woodpecker easier to handle is that the guide rails that connect to the cutting rails can be at at any distance as they rest on top of what they are cutting as opposed to be at the ends.

@glass1 - please help us understand what makes for "clumsiness" in the FESTOOL parallel guide (- and what you have so far seen of the TSO TPG System) ?

Your feedback may help us decide to speed up the availability of our optional TPG Rail Adapter (p/n 610-409) which accomplishes exactly what you are referring to.

Hans
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Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline duburban

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #170 on: February 10, 2019, 04:24 PM »
From here it looks like the tso parallel guide suffers from the same clumsy ness as the Festool. That the guide stops have to be at the ends of the material being cut. What makes the Seneca and woodpecker easier to handle is that the guide rails that connect to the cutting rails can be at at any distance as they rest on top of what they are cutting as opposed to be at the ends.

I'm a little confused here as from what I see the parallel guide (part that stop slides in) is sitting on top of the material unlike the festool.

Take a close look at the image i attached and let me know if i'm not understanding you.

helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline glass1

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #171 on: February 10, 2019, 06:02 PM »
Yes, stop is on top but the right angle pieces(blue) need to be at the end of the material to be ripped. It’s easier to just flop the woodpecker and Seneca on top of the material while the Festool and I presume the tso has to be placed at the ends and fitted onto the material to be ripped. I found it clumsy to maneuver the Festool parallel guides to fit at the ends of the material. Not impossible just clumsy. But I have not seen the tso in person so maybe it’s easier. There is a certain ease if everything is on top as opposed to at “the ends”.

Offline glass1

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #172 on: February 10, 2019, 06:05 PM »
Just to follow up the tso looks quite easy to use when using just one stop. I cannot see how on 8 ‘ rips one would be enough. Usually one parallels up a sheet goo first than crosscuts ?

Offline TSO Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #173 on: February 10, 2019, 07:27 PM »
@glass1 - to clarify: the TPG T-tracks rest on top of the work piece unlike the FESTOOL guide.
as to the ability to get parallel cuts with just ONE single TPG-track:

look at REPLY # 65 and # 33 and # 17.

Tom is not on our payroll - his involvement is that of a FOG member going out of his way to help another - what makes this forum such a great environment and an incentive for TSO to pay it forward.

Hans
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Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #174 on: February 10, 2019, 07:40 PM »
I think we're reaching the far end of viability when you start looking at narrow 8' long rips using the TSO squares and PG's. Not that it cannot be done but from experience that a lot of hardware hanging on the extreme ends of a flexible rail. It'll work but be cumbersome, at least in my situation. This is no different from the Festool PG's, I owned them before the advent of the aftermarket versions.

I say this as an owner & frequent user of both TSO squares, they are awesome for dead-nuts square cross-cutting where you rely on the square always being square without thinking about it. From what I can see the square will also work great w/ the TPG addon in a  lot of situations including 8' rips of wider stock. Where I'd expect things to start breaking down is with narrow rips where the function of the square itself is diminished to being mostly a bracket to hold the PG at each end. That gets away from the excellent design and engineering that makes the original product so great to use without stopping to wonder if the resulting cut will be square. It can be done but the compromises are stacking up to the point that I'd want a dedicated tool. The aftermarket PG's are light and easy to install/remove/handle.

Just my [2cents] and loaded with personal preferences.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline TSO Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #175 on: February 10, 2019, 08:11 PM »
Richard,
I think you and I see things pretty much along the same lines. It is quite natural in a forum like this that members will probe the limits of what a tool "can" do. This does not mean anyone suggests buying and using a tool for the express purpose of using it at the limit of its specified capability.

We do not think ANY parallel guide is well suited for cutting narrow stock. Possible, yes, but for everyday use, get a tablesaw (portable). In January I had occasion to cut six strips 5"wide and 96" long with the TPG-20 set, the work around required to deal with narrow cuts reaffirmed our belief that this is not the strong suit of any parallel guide.

We developed this tool to be most capable to produce sheet goods cabinet parts of identical dimensions in a repeatable manner quickly and accurately.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #176 on: February 10, 2019, 08:24 PM »
I think we're reaching the far end of viability when you start looking at narrow 8' long rips using the TSO squares and PG's. Not that it cannot be done but from experience that a lot of hardware hanging on the extreme ends of a flexible rail. It'll work but be cumbersome, at least in my situation. This is no different from the Festool PG's, I owned them before the advent of the aftermarket versions.

I say this as an owner & frequent user of both TSO squares, they are awesome for dead-nuts square cross-cutting where you rely on the square always being square without thinking about it. From what I can see the square will also work great w/ the TPG addon in a  lot of situations including 8' rips of wider stock. Where I'd expect things to start breaking down is with narrow rips where the function of the square itself is diminished to being mostly a bracket to hold the PG at each end. That gets away from the excellent design and engineering that makes the original product so great to use without stopping to wonder if the resulting cut will be square. It can be done but the compromises are stacking up to the point that I'd want a dedicated tool. The aftermarket PG's are light and easy to install/remove/handle.

Just my [2cents] and loaded with personal preferences.

RMW

You can cut narrows, but you MUST use 2 set ups, 1 right side, 1 left side. The left side must be a PE.

I mentioned previously if you plan on narrows get another set of stops, calibrate them with the narrow rip rods.

Tom

Offline glass1

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #177 on: February 10, 2019, 09:12 PM »
And when you use right side and left side they are at the ends of the material being cut not on top correct?  That’s the cumbersome part. The space between the 2 blue squares is the length of the material being cut.

Offline glass1

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #178 on: February 10, 2019, 09:14 PM »
It’s clear as day on the tso website in the picture that is $325. The stops are at either end. Just saying that it’s harder to put on and take off when it’s not just place on top like the Seneca set up.

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #179 on: February 10, 2019, 09:14 PM »
I'll start this post by making things clear-----I do not work for TSO, I am privileged enough to get to test their products prior to public release. I run them through their paces and make recommendations based my use of them. I do get to keep the majority of the items I test. I believe I've been testing the TPG's for about a year.

I do not do this just for TSO. I have shot and shared how to videos for members here and elsewhere. These videos are not public, they're to assist that person. I field on average 50 PM's per week from people looking for some insight for a project they're doing. I feel doing what I do for TSO is just an extension of helping others.

This link is to a video I shot today of the GRS & TPG set up as a single arm on one of my 3000 rails. In it I tried to address some of the question asked on this forum.



A question I get a lot after a video like this---yes, I have over 40 rails....

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #180 on: February 10, 2019, 09:20 PM »
And when you use right side and left side they are at the ends of the material being cut not on top correct?  That’s the cumbersome part. The space between the 2 blue squares is the length of the material being cut.

Not certain I truly understand your question but I'm going to give answering it a shot.

The squares come off and go on so easily I do not find it an issue. I find it areal advantage. This eliminates all the torque on the guide rail.

Most times you'll need to clear the cut table for the next piece. If not just slide the assembly forward. Back to the clearing the table----remove the square/arm assembly(s), set aside, lift rail, clear table, set new work piece, place rail randomly, pop on squares/arms, set stops to edge, cut, repeat.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #181 on: February 10, 2019, 09:21 PM »
It’s clear as day on the tso website in the picture that is $325. The stops are at either end. Just saying that it’s harder to put on and take off when it’s not just place on top like the Seneca set up.

Yes, they are at the ends. Now I understand your first question and I believe I answered it correctly.

Tom

Offline glass1

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #182 on: February 10, 2019, 09:24 PM »
So work flow with 1 side only would be first a random rip to establish a straight or jointed edge. Second a square crosscut of said jointed edge. Than using  the tso guide with just one side square to said square edge one rips parallel edge. Just saying with other systems one can first parellel both edges and than cross cut. To this with both left and right sides with tso system the blue squares must be at the end of the material.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 319
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #183 on: February 10, 2019, 09:34 PM »
@tjbnwi  great video. Over the weekend I was using my PE square for the real first time. I see in your video you used pre-finished ply. I was cutting some MDF which is fairly smooth yet the rubber on the bottom of the track was still biting pretty good. I had to sort of shake/bounce the track to try to make sure the square was in contact with the end of the board.

Can you share and tricks of the trade on this?

Thanks

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #184 on: February 10, 2019, 09:39 PM »
So work flow with 1 side only would be first a random rip to establish a straight or jointed edge. Second a square crosscut of said jointed edge. Than using  the tso guide with just one side square to said square edge one rips parallel edge. Just saying with other systems one can first parellel both edges and than cross cut. To this with both left and right sides with tso system the blue squares must be at the end of the material.

My work flow; (assumes you've set the stop to desired with of cut)

Straight line one long reference edge. This can all be done with the TSO PG's on the rail. I use the anti kickback device that comes with the TS saws to set the rail off the factory edge. You can see how I do this starting at the 40 second mark in this video; 

Reverse rail and set the stop to the fresh edge. Make first sizing cut. Raise backed of rail enough to clear work piece with the stop(s), slide forward, slide the cut piece far enough from the next piece tube cut for stops to locate, locate stop(s), make next curt, repeat.

Depending on number of cross cuts needed they'll be done on the MFT's or using the GRS (again an arm can be attached while making the cross cuts).

To the best of my knowledge the TSO system is the only system that can make parallel cuts with a single arm.

Tom



Offline tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #185 on: February 10, 2019, 09:43 PM »
@tjbnwi  great video. Over the weekend I was using my PE square for the real first time. I see in your video you used pre-finished ply. I was cutting some MDF which is fairly smooth yet the rubber on the bottom of the track was still biting pretty good. I had to sort of shake/bounce the track to try to make sure the square was in contact with the end of the board.

Can you share and tricks of the trade on this?

Thanks

The correction for this is raising the toe (the toe is the splinter guard edge) of the rail enough to get the rail to slide on the heel c-channel bottom edge.

I hope to get to more videos this week---no promises (hey that could be a song....).

Tom

Offline Chris Perren

  • Posts: 98
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #186 on: February 10, 2019, 09:46 PM »
Thanks Tom. 

In my opinion, the GRS 16 was a game changer using my track saws. I would never be without it... If you own a track saw then this is a must have product. The upcoming addition of the TSO parallel guides adds unbelievable accuracy..

I've owned the different different brands of parallel guides (Woodpecker, Seneca, Precision, Rip, Festool) which ALL are accurate BUT also a pain to install and remove.  The beauty of the GRS system is how quick it installs and remove.  And the TSO system make it a must have....  So looking forward to the TSO parallel system..             
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 10:01 PM by Chris Perren »

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 319
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #187 on: February 10, 2019, 10:42 PM »
Thanks Tom. 

In my opinion, the GRS 16 was a game changer using my track saws. I would never be without it... If you own a track saw then this is a must have product. The upcoming addition of the TSO parallel guides adds unbelievable accuracy..

I've owned the different different brands of parallel guides (Woodpecker, Seneca, Precision, Rip, Festool) which ALL are accurate BUT also a pain to install and remove.  The beauty of the GRS system is how quick it installs and remove.  And the TSO system make it a must have....  So looking forward to the TSO parallel system..           

Only if your track is straight  [sad].

I have two Makita 55", one Makita 118", and one Festool 75" tracks. Of coarse when I go to the big box with my cordless Makita, track, and GRS-16 PE to show off how to break down a 4' x 8' sheet in the parking lot I find out my cut will be almost 1/4" off across 48" from my measurement from the ends. I blamed it on the square.

When I got home I drew a nice square line with my WP square. Duplicated the 1/4" error with this rail. I put the PE on my other three tracks and they were perfect. I put the rails against each other on the non anti-chip edge and all but the one touched along the entire length. Now I need to get a replacement rail.

So, even if the GRS-16 PE is perfect your rails better be too.


Offline tallgrass

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #188 on: February 11, 2019, 12:43 AM »
I had problems with my festool rails with them having "bends". I cut the strait portions and made convenient smaller pieces and threw out the bent sections..... Very irritating. I now check every rail I get to make sure.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 476
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #189 on: February 11, 2019, 05:53 AM »
Tom, thanks for the videos and responses. You don't have to provide them yet you continue to do so. I hope you don't get burnt out and leave the forum some day like past contributors.

I was using Seneca guides the other day on 5x5 bb with two joined 1400 rails. The whole process was clunky and annoying. Rip a clean edge. Attach both guides to one side of rail butted against each other. Use a woodpecker guide stop Rule under rail to set one Seneca guide. Use a square to set second Seneca stop to first stop. Remove one Seneca guide and put on other end of rail. Rip to desired width. It works, it's extremely accurate, but it's a real pain to do each time on multiple sheets. I wasn't considering the TSO PG but now I am after watching the video. On 5x5 bb I bet a single PG would be sufficient.

Something that isn't clear to me. When you're doing the first straight line cut does the square have to be on the rail to make a square edge to attach to when using the PG in the next cut?
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline lerabotperche

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #190 on: February 11, 2019, 06:06 AM »
thank you Tom ! <3

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #191 on: February 11, 2019, 09:07 AM »
Tom, thanks for the videos and responses. You don't have to provide them yet you continue to do so. I hope you don't get burnt out and leave the forum some day like past contributors.

I was using Seneca guides the other day on 5x5 bb with two joined 1400 rails. The whole process was clunky and annoying. Rip a clean edge. Attach both guides to one side of rail butted against each other. Use a woodpecker guide stop Rule under rail to set one Seneca guide. Use a square to set second Seneca stop to first stop. Remove one Seneca guide and put on other end of rail. Rip to desired width. It works, it's extremely accurate, but it's a real pain to do each time on multiple sheets. I wasn't considering the TSO PG but now I am after watching the video. On 5x5 bb I bet a single PG would be sufficient.

Something that isn't clear to me. When you're doing the first straight line cut does the square have to be on the rail to make a square edge to attach to when using the PG in the next cut?

The square does not have to be on the rail to make the initial straight line cut. The square with the TPG that will rip up to 30" on the rail is pretty easy to move around. The longer TPG, I would remove (in our case we just use a different rail). I try to do the videos with what others may have in mind.

For your 5x5 I'd use the 75" or 90" holy rail.

Tom

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 476
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #192 on: February 11, 2019, 10:14 AM »
Thanks Tom. I was considering the 75" rail for this purpose since I'll be using a lot of 5x5 BB. Considering the recommended rail overhang is around 6" at each end of the material, will the 75" rail plus the TSO GRS-16 PE be okay or 'cutting' it close for 60" 5x5 BB? (Pun intended)

Thanks
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline dr.r.lam

  • Posts: 22
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #193 on: February 11, 2019, 06:45 PM »
This link is to a video I shot today of the GRS & TPG set up as a single arm on one of my 3000 rails. In it I tried to address some of the question asked on this forum.



A question I get a lot after a video like this---yes, I have over 40 rails....

Tom


Thank you so much for the video Tom.
Your contributions to FOG are invaluable, especially for complete novices such as myself.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us!

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #194 on: February 11, 2019, 07:13 PM »
Thanks Tom. I was considering the 75" rail for this purpose since I'll be using a lot of 5x5 BB. Considering the recommended rail overhang is around 6" at each end of the material, will the 75" rail plus the TSO GRS-16 PE be okay or 'cutting' it close for 60" 5x5 BB? (Pun intended)

Thanks

The entry overhang is more critical than the exit overhang. Entry you really want to be able to plunge without hitting the workpiece and both gibbs on the rail.

Tom

Offline JimH2

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #195 on: February 11, 2019, 08:42 PM »
yapg...

Offline tazprime38

  • Posts: 262
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #196 on: February 12, 2019, 06:57 AM »
From here it looks like the tso parallel guide suffers from the same clumsy ness as the Festool. That the guide stops have to be at the ends of the material being cut. What makes the Seneca and woodpecker easier to handle is that the guide rails that connect to the cutting rails can be at at any distance as they rest on top of what they are cutting as opposed to be at the ends.

@glass1 - please help us understand what makes for "clumsiness" in the FESTOOL parallel guide (- and what you have so far seen of the TSO TPG System) ?

Your feedback may help us decide to speed up the availability of our optional TPG Rail Adapter (p/n 610-409) which accomplishes exactly what you are referring to.

Hans

Hans @TSO_Products

I was thinking of something like this and then you post this  lol [big grin]. I think you should speed up production on this too [wink]

Tariq

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 146
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #197 on: February 12, 2019, 08:49 AM »
From here it looks like the tso parallel guide suffers from the same clumsy ness as the Festool. That the guide stops have to be at the ends of the material being cut. What makes the Seneca and woodpecker easier to handle is that the guide rails that connect to the cutting rails can be at at any distance as they rest on top of what they are cutting as opposed to be at the ends.

@glass1 - please help us understand what makes for "clumsiness" in the FESTOOL parallel guide (- and what you have so far seen of the TSO TPG System) ?

Your feedback may help us decide to speed up the availability of our optional TPG Rail Adapter (p/n 610-409) which accomplishes exactly what you are referring to.

Hans
Count me in on hearing more about the TPG Rail Adapter. I do a lot of narrow ripping and like the ability to position the stops along the rail. I see the main benefit of this to be saving on repositioning stops for different lengths of stock and to help eliminate a longer piece from flexing in the middle were it only referenced off the very ends. Perhaps this isn't a common use-case but, "if you don't ask" and all that  ;)

Offline tomp

  • Posts: 97
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #198 on: February 12, 2019, 11:10 AM »
When talking narrow rips, do I assume that means rips narrower than the width of the rail? Tom's video showed a rip on a narrow piece to put a good starting edge on it, but never showed cutting to a specific width. Looking at this video from Peter Millard, he's showing a home-made guide, quickly made to cut a specific width on the "waste" side of the rail; has anyone looked at something similar but adjustable for different widths? I would think that a t-track with scale and a movable stop could be used, with a sliding stop for calibration similar to that on the TPG



As much as possible, I try to do all the ripping first, and then all I have to do is cross-cut to length as needed. I have made rips as narrow as 1-1/2" with the EZ UEG and as wide as 24" (about the capacity). This works for me given my workspace limitations - and the fact that I don't have a long rail (and would have trouble finding a place to store it if I did.

292747-0

After ripping, the strips are cut to length as needed - this would be my basic used for the TPG when it's available, to give me repeatable lengths. I normally do the cross-cutting on the collapsible grid (and have also used that as an assembly table too).

292749-1

If I need to adjust the width on a part later, I'd use the Rip Dogs parallel guide. I think someone posted the idea of using a single arm of the parallel guide, in conjunction with the GRS-16, something that I had been considering as it would already be calibrated to my rail, but it looks as if the TPG might be a little more user-friendly.

292751-2

Offline Dane

  • Posts: 367
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #199 on: February 12, 2019, 11:53 AM »
I am sitting right on the fence of this purchase.  Here's my one issue- in the event that you need to get both the top and bottom arms for repeatability on long cuts I don't really see why the purchase of a second expensive square is necessary.  Seems like the top square is really just there to hold the guide arm.  Couldn't there be a secondary, less expensive way to attach that upper arm to the rail?  That would potentially knock a couple hundred off the price and bring in more buyers...

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4170
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #200 on: February 12, 2019, 12:22 PM »
I am sitting right on the fence of this purchase.  Here's my one issue- in the event that you need to get both the top and bottom arms for repeatability on long cuts I don't really see why the purchase of a second expensive square is necessary.  Seems like the top square is really just there to hold the guide arm.  Couldn't there be a secondary, less expensive way to attach that upper arm to the rail?  That would potentially knock a couple hundred off the price and bring in more buyers...

@TSO_Products  there is a good idea!

Offline tazprime38

  • Posts: 262
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #201 on: February 12, 2019, 12:24 PM »
I am sitting right on the fence of this purchase.  Here's my one issue- in the event that you need to get both the top and bottom arms for repeatability on long cuts I don't really see why the purchase of a second expensive square is necessary.  Seems like the top square is really just there to hold the guide arm.  Couldn't there be a secondary, less expensive way to attach that upper arm to the rail?  That would potentially knock a couple hundred off the price and bring in more buyers...

I think the proposed TPG Rail Adapter (p/n 610-409)  will achieve this.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4170
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #202 on: February 12, 2019, 12:38 PM »
I am sitting right on the fence of this purchase.  Here's my one issue- in the event that you need to get both the top and bottom arms for repeatability on long cuts I don't really see why the purchase of a second expensive square is necessary.  Seems like the top square is really just there to hold the guide arm.  Couldn't there be a secondary, less expensive way to attach that upper arm to the rail?  That would potentially knock a couple hundred off the price and bring in more buyers...

I think the proposed TPG Rail Adapter (p/n 610-409)  will achieve this.

Couldn’t find any such thing at TSO Products.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #203 on: February 12, 2019, 08:20 PM »
@Michael Kellough - give us a little time to bring out products. The Adapter is "proposed" - that is designed but not yet in production.The part is not as inexpensive as you might think. Take a look at other parallel guides on the market which use this type of adapter and look at the pricing. You're well on your way to paying for another multi use tool rather than just a single-purpose Adapter.

Any Adapter will also take more time and a separate handtool to install and remove: no snap-on and snap-off like the GRS-16 connection affords.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6066
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #204 on: February 12, 2019, 08:31 PM »
When talking narrow rips, do I assume that means rips narrower than the width of the rail? Tom's video showed a rip on a narrow piece to put a good starting edge on it, but never showed cutting to a specific width. Looking at this video from Peter Millard, he's showing a home-made guide, quickly made to cut a specific width on the "waste" side of the rail; has anyone looked at something similar but adjustable for different widths? I would think that a t-track with scale and a movable stop could be used, with a sliding stop for calibration similar to that on the TPG



As much as possible, I try to do all the ripping first, and then all I have to do is cross-cut to length as needed. I have made rips as narrow as 1-1/2" with the EZ UEG and as wide as 24" (about the capacity). This works for me given my workspace limitations - and the fact that I don't have a long rail (and would have trouble finding a place to store it if I did.

(Attachment Link)

After ripping, the strips are cut to length as needed - this would be my basic used for the TPG when it's available, to give me repeatable lengths. I normally do the cross-cutting on the collapsible grid (and have also used that as an assembly table too).

(Attachment Link)

If I need to adjust the width on a part later, I'd use the Rip Dogs parallel guide. I think someone posted the idea of using a single arm of the parallel guide, in conjunction with the GRS-16, something that I had been considering as it would already be calibrated to my rail, but it looks as if the TPG might be a little more user-friendly.

(Attachment Link)

The "cleaning" rip was shown to show how I start the process with a known good edge.

There are parts that allow you to do narrow rips.

If you are going to do narrow rips, you definitely need the GRS PE for the left end of the rail. I highly recommend a second set of stops so you can calibrate the narrow rip rods and leave them calibrated.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6066
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #205 on: February 12, 2019, 08:43 PM »
I am sitting right on the fence of this purchase.  Here's my one issue- in the event that you need to get both the top and bottom arms for repeatability on long cuts I don't really see why the purchase of a second expensive square is necessary.  Seems like the top square is really just there to hold the guide arm.  Couldn't there be a secondary, less expensive way to attach that upper arm to the rail?  That would potentially knock a couple hundred off the price and bring in more buyers...

@Dane

When I first stated testing this system I thought the same as you. There has to be an easy, inexpensive way to handle the left side of the rail for long rips and narrow rips.

I've drawn a few different devices, modeled some, tried this and that. Had multiple email communications with TSO. Over the year plus of working with the system I've come up with nothing as nice and simple as the GRS 16 PE for the left side of the rail.

All of the "adapters" were simply scaled down version of the PE. By the time it was machined and the clip installed I doubt there would be much savings. Without the clip it would be cumbersome. One of the beauties is how easily the TPG's can removed and reinstalled without affecting the calibration.

Ultimately, in my opinion, the PE is the most cost effective method of handling the left end of the rail.

Tom

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4170
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #206 on: February 12, 2019, 08:53 PM »
Tom said, “By the time it was machined and the clip installed I doubt there would be much savings. Without the clip it would be cumbersome.”

After posting I thought about it and came to the same conclusion. At best it could be a little smaller and save a little material cost and machining time but not enough to justify it’s existence as nothing more than an expensive fastener. It would be easier to store but since both GSR’s are now sized to fit flat in a Systainer that isn’t a huge benefit.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6066
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #207 on: February 12, 2019, 08:55 PM »
Tom said, “By the time it was machined and the clip installed I doubt there would be much savings. Without the clip it would be cumbersome.”

After posting I thought about it and came to the same conclusion. At best it could be a little smaller and save a little material cost and machining time but not enough to justify it’s existence as nothing more than an expensive fastener. It would be easier to store but since both GSR’s are now sized to fit flat in a Systainer that isn’t a huge benefit.

It's not a bad thing two have 2 GRS's....

Tom

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6380
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #208 on: February 12, 2019, 09:18 PM »

It's not a bad thing two have 2 GRS's....


Amen... like when you’re neighbor borrows your HKC, guide rail & GSR for building stuff at the cabin in Wisconsin and suddenly you need to break down sheet goods with the TSC.

Offline Dane

  • Posts: 367
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #209 on: February 13, 2019, 10:37 AM »
That makes sense, I suppose.  And I certainly understand the multifunctionalty of having the squares and the guides.  Still, for someone starting from zero, like I am, it makes this an almost 600.00 proposition.  I am sure it's worth it- just makes it a bit harder to jump on.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 319
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #210 on: February 13, 2019, 10:52 AM »
That makes sense, I suppose.  And I certainly understand the multifunctionalty of having the squares and the guides.  Still, for someone starting from zero, like I am, it makes this an almost 600.00 proposition.  I am sure it's worth it- just makes it a bit harder to jump on.

@Dane

I'm a serious hobbyist that struggled to justify one GRS let alone two. But, the jury is still out until the TPG's are out. Tom says he was able to get reliable long rips with one of each. I haven't had a chance to try my GRS out with my 118" rail yet but the more I think about it just in case rails are not perfectly straight could we shim one side of the GRS rail contact to calibrate it? Maybe tape on the rail since the GRS will be used on several tracks?

Offline Oldwood

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  • Alberta, Canada
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #211 on: February 13, 2019, 02:17 PM »
That makes sense, I suppose.  And I certainly understand the multifunctionalty of having the squares and the guides.  Still, for someone starting from zero, like I am, it makes this an almost 600.00 proposition.  I am sure it's worth it- just makes it a bit harder to jump on.

@Dane

I'm a serious hobbyist that struggled to justify one GRS let alone two. But, the jury is still out until the TPG's are out. Tom says he was able to get reliable long rips with one of each. I haven't had a chance to try my GRS out with my 118" rail yet but the more I think about it just in case rails are not perfectly straight could we shim one side of the GRS rail contact to calibrate it? Maybe tape on the rail since the GRS will be used on several tracks?

I think for "reliable repeatable results" on 8 foot rips you need 2 arms. Even if the square is 100% accurate the sheet stock rarely is and if you have a small bump on the plywood where you reference your square you will be out even more. The kit does get a little pricey when you add 2 squares to the price of the parallel guides but it looks like it is very well made.

Just my opinion FWIW
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Online Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 381
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #212 on: February 13, 2019, 03:52 PM »
At the same time for 600 bucks you can buy a pretty decent job site tablesaw which gives you very accurate repeatable rip cuts.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1192
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #213 on: February 13, 2019, 05:59 PM »
At the same time for 600 bucks you can buy a pretty decent job site tablesaw which gives you very accurate repeatable rip cuts.

And much more!

Feeling good that not too long ago I sold my TS75 and track.

Offline Koamolly

  • Posts: 87
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #214 on: February 19, 2019, 02:21 PM »
So I called TSO today and they are saying nothing is coming out out now until mid March. 

Offline dlu

  • Posts: 168
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #215 on: February 19, 2019, 03:56 PM »
At the same time for 600 bucks you can buy a pretty decent job site tablesaw which gives you very accurate repeatable rip cuts.

However…

  • A table saw eats up a lot more space, and
  • A $600 saw is not going to be an easy tool to use for breaking down sheet goods.

So it really depends on the space you have and the work you are planning to do.

Offline dr.r.lam

  • Posts: 22
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #216 on: February 20, 2019, 05:12 AM »
mid March.


I was just wondering if there were any updates too!


Did you get the impression that this was when they would release the pre-order? Or if that could be delivery for the pre-orders?


Online Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 381
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #217 on: February 20, 2019, 02:29 PM »
At the same time for 600 bucks you can buy a pretty decent job site tablesaw which gives you very accurate repeatable rip cuts.


However…

  • A table saw eats up a lot more space, and
  • A $600 saw is not going to be an easy tool to use for breaking down sheet goods.

So it really depends on the space you have and the work you are planning to do.
Fair enough, and no disrespect to the quality of TSO product, I own and love their GRS-16. Just pointing out that we're talking about a 600 dollar set of accessories for a tool that itself costs at least another 600/700 dollars (with the necessary rail). If you spent that accessory money on a tablesaw you'd get a whole new set of possibilities plus a lot of what you can do with that set. P
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 04:08 PM by Sanderxpander »

Offline Koamolly

  • Posts: 87
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #218 on: February 20, 2019, 02:53 PM »
mid March.


I was just wondering if there were any updates too!


Did you get the impression that this was when they would release the pre-order? Or if that could be delivery for the pre-orders?

The person I spoke with didn’t think anything would be available before mid March.  I said I was following discussion here, thinking some portion was coming out now.  He didn’t think so.  Maybe Hans can give an update regarding what will be available when.

Offline jasen

  • Posts: 41
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #219 on: February 20, 2019, 05:06 PM »
If you look on their Web page it tells you when available - most products May 1. If its earlier it will be a bonus. I can see a lot of interest out there as everyone is eagerly waiting :)

I know you can choose either Left or Right set (I have PE vcersion), curious as to what/why - Left or Right? Purely an aesthetic thing or the way they work? Any advantages / disadvantages?


Offline dlu

  • Posts: 168
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #220 on: February 20, 2019, 10:58 PM »
I know you can choose either Left or Right set (I have PE vcersion), curious as to what/why - Left or Right? Purely an aesthetic thing or the way they work? Any advantages / disadvantages?

Left is for the near end of the rail, right is for the far end.

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #221 on: February 20, 2019, 11:18 PM »
Left and right with narrow rip rod setup.

Tom

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 319
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #222 on: February 20, 2019, 11:40 PM »
Left and right with narrow rip rod setup.

Tom
@tjbnwi do the rods need to be calibrated?

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #223 on: February 20, 2019, 11:43 PM »
Left and right with narrow rip rod setup.

Tom
@tjbnwi do the rods need to be calibrated?

Yes, that is why I highly recommend two sets of stops if you're going to be ripping a lot of narrow and "normal" sizes. Calibrate each once.

Tom

Offline dr.r.lam

  • Posts: 22
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #224 on: February 21, 2019, 07:02 PM »

Yes, that is why I highly recommend two sets of stops if you're going to be ripping a lot of narrow and "normal" sizes. Calibrate each once.

Tom


Thanks Tom (also for the picture).
Does that mean the narrow stock rods connect to the stop directly?


Are you recommending a separate set of T-tracks for a narrow-stock rod/stop combo?
Or just an additional narrow-stock rod/stop combo to be used with the same T-track as a normal stop?


Best regards,

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #225 on: February 21, 2019, 07:17 PM »

Yes, that is why I highly recommend two sets of stops if you're going to be ripping a lot of narrow and "normal" sizes. Calibrate each once.

Tom


Thanks Tom (also for the picture).
Does that mean the narrow stock rods connect to the stop directly?


Are you recommending a separate set of T-tracks for a narrow-stock rod/stop combo?
Or just an additional narrow-stock rod/stop combo to be used with the same T-track as a normal stop?


Best regards,

If you’re doing a lot of narrow rips get the entire setup. If it’s only once in awhile get the rods and another set of stops.

Tom

Offline dr.r.lam

  • Posts: 22
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #226 on: February 21, 2019, 07:29 PM »
If you’re doing a lot of narrow rips get the entire setup. If it’s only once in awhile get the rods and another set of stops.

Tom


Thank you Tom.


Offline TSO Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #227 on: February 21, 2019, 07:59 PM »
All: your interest and patience is appreciated - thank you [smile]
Our patience is even more put to the test as we work to complete the remaining tasks before shipments can begin [tongue]

We do think the mid-march time frame represents the best estimate for shipment launch. Last week we completed another production run of T-track extrusion - literally more than a mile (!) long. Now cutting, de-burring, machining, anodizing and laser engraving before assembling and kitting.

We have completed our packaging multi-corner drop tests in a lab environment. As I write this, we are road testing our packaging designs by shipping multiple actual products across the country and back using our regular parcel carrier, UPS. Barring unexpected test results,we will receive production packaging in time for mid-march shipment start.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline TSO Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #228 on: February 21, 2019, 08:02 PM »
see packaging pictures attached RE preceding post.
Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline TSO Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #229 on: February 21, 2019, 08:04 PM »
and the other packagng picture: TPG-50 set
(can't seem to get pictures attached first try)

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline rj_mccall

  • Posts: 21
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #230 on: February 22, 2019, 12:30 AM »
All: your interest and patience is appreciated - thank you [smile]
Our patience is even more put to the test as we work to complete the remaining tasks before shipments can begin [tongue]

We do think the mid-march time frame represents the best estimate for shipment launch. Last week we completed another production run of T-track extrusion - literally more than a mile (!) long. Now cutting, de-burring, machining, anodizing and laser engraving before assembling and kitting.

We have completed our packaging multi-corner drop tests in a lab environment. As I write this, we are road testing our packaging designs by shipping multiple actual products across the country and back using our regular parcel carrier, UPS. Barring unexpected test results,we will receive production packaging in time for mid-march shipment start.

Hans

To be clear, when you say you will start shipping, you mean take orders and start shipping?? I assume up to now we have not been able to make any orders for the early adopter sets??

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #231 on: February 24, 2019, 09:31 PM »
Due it a material change I had to trim some island legs that are too large for the Kapex.

I had a few options;

table saw, was not able to slide the legs smoothy along the table

Laguna sliding table saw, does not cut square

TS 75 CMS insert, use sliding table, works but means a change over for step 2

TSO PG's are what I went with.

Cuts;



Step 2;



Tom

Offline lerabotperche

  • Posts: 43
    • What I do and how I do it :)
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #232 on: February 25, 2019, 11:55 AM »
 [eek] [blink] mid march.... almost 3 more weeks ? AAAAHHHHHH

Offline blaszcsj

  • Posts: 457
  • I like building stuff with my hands.
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #233 on: February 25, 2019, 12:34 PM »
[eek] [blink] mid march.... almost 3 more weeks ? AAAAHHHHHH

This wait feels like the ground day movie...however, I have found out I love @TSO Products and the movie is not over yet!  [big grin]
OF1010 EQ Router | MFT/3 | DF500Q | Carvex 420 | ETS EC 150/3 | CT 36 Auto Clean | TSC55 | LR32 | OF1400 EQ Router | ZOBO Metric Set | CXS Li 2.6 - 90 Limited Edition | Universal Cleaning Set | HKC55 | Centrotec CE-SORT | RO150 FEQ | DTS 400 | RO90 DX | CTSYS | C18 Drill | SysLite KALII | Syslite STL 450 | RAS 115 E | OF2200 EB

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #234 on: February 25, 2019, 02:13 PM »
All: your interest and patience is appreciated - thank you [smile]
Our patience is even more put to the test as we work to complete the remaining tasks before shipments can begin [tongue]

We do think the mid-march time frame represents the best estimate for shipment launch. Last week we completed another production run of T-track extrusion - literally more than a mile (!) long. Now cutting, de-burring, machining, anodizing and laser engraving before assembling and kitting.

We have completed our packaging multi-corner drop tests in a lab environment. As I write this, we are road testing our packaging designs by shipping multiple actual products across the country and back using our regular parcel carrier, UPS. Barring unexpected test results,we will receive production packaging in time for mid-march shipment start.

Hans

To be clear, when you say you will start shipping, you mean take orders and start shipping?? I assume up to now we have not been able to make any orders for the early adopter sets??

@rj_mccall - you are correct. we're waiting for updated packaging to be delivered. Looks like there is going to be very little time difference in availability - between the EARLY ADOPTER plan and final production - we tried . . .

Hans

Hans

Offline mungk

  • Posts: 18
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #235 on: February 26, 2019, 07:49 PM »
How does one get in on the early adopter plan or did i miss it?

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #236 on: February 26, 2019, 07:56 PM »
Just write Hans, but it may not be what you think. “Early adopter” refers to the earliest buyers of the GRS before the 6mm holes were added that will allow attachment of the new rails. TSO wanted to send out a jig (in advance of the rails being ready) to make it easy for the early adopters to add those holes but it looks like everything will happen more or less at the same time.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 932
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #237 on: February 27, 2019, 12:32 PM »
@TSO Products Hans I'm really excited about your parallel guide. To use the guide for ripping will I need two GRS-16?

@tjbnwi Tom please more of those videos  [thumbs up] by the way you need a helper to turn your pieces  /raise hand
Mario

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #238 on: February 27, 2019, 12:51 PM »
@TSO Products Hans I'm really excited about your parallel guide. To use the guide for ripping will I need two GRS-16?

@tjbnwi Tom please more of those videos  [thumbs up] by the way you need a helper to turn your pieces  /raise hand

@Mario - we also have a Guide Rail Adapter in the works as an alternative to using one or two GRS-16's. One adapter is designed to handle the left or right T-track set as needed. If you need two T-tracks for a series of cuts then you will need two Adapters or a combination GRS-16 and one Adapter.
It will be available as a single item for customers who want to use it with just one GRS-16. We don't have a price yet but it will obviously quite a bit less than another GRS-16 but, unlike the GRS-16,  can only perform one function [wink]

Hans

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #239 on: February 27, 2019, 09:38 PM »
@TSO Products Hans I'm really excited about your parallel guide. To use the guide for ripping will I need two GRS-16?

@tjbnwi Tom please more of those videos  [thumbs up] by the way you need a helper to turn your pieces  /raise hand

Working on it. Life keeps getting in the way.

Tom

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #240 on: February 28, 2019, 06:39 AM »
Thank you Hans. The day we had that first discussion I knew I made a mistake  [crying] We all learn from our mistakes  [embarassed]
Mario

Offline John Stevens

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #241 on: March 01, 2019, 07:39 AM »
Tom, many thanks for the videos showing the TSO products in use.  Very helpful for estimating  the value to be obtained for the price.  (Looks to be well worth it for me, but to each his own.)

Also, thanks for the tip about running the hose and power cord over your arm—obvious to me only after I saw you doing it!

—John
What this world needs is a good retreat.
--Captain Beefheart

Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 464
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #242 on: March 07, 2019, 01:37 PM »
Is the early adopter sale over? I could not figure out how to order it on the website.

Offline dr.r.lam

  • Posts: 22
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #243 on: March 08, 2019, 08:05 PM »
Is the early adopter sale over? I could not figure out how to order it on the website.


The TPG system hasn't been released yet. From the limited information we have, it looks like the early adopter sets have a preliminary release date middle to end of March.


Hans/Eric have said that they tried to get early-release models out, but were over ambitious with their time-frame for delivery.


It is likely that whilst we will have an early release, it won't be that far ahead of the actual release.


Offline tomp

  • Posts: 97
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #244 on: March 08, 2019, 08:08 PM »
The drill jig needed to add the tapped holes to my early-model GRS arrived today so I guess that I can do the modification while I wait.

Offline m. lindholm

  • Posts: 12
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #245 on: March 15, 2019, 02:19 PM »
Well March 15th is here, and unless my memory fails me, the dates now show April 15 for the early adopter "TPG-30 R" set, and May 1 for the "TPG 20 & 30" Right Hand, Left Hand, and combo sets.  Guess I'll be holding onto my money a little longer.

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #246 on: March 15, 2019, 04:24 PM »
of all things, cosmetic appearance problems with production have thrown us unexpected curveballs and blown our expectation to start shipping today, March 15.
Rest assured that completing the required process changes is a high priority for everyone involved on our team. We will have an update on availability as soon as we have qualified parts.

Hans and Eric

Offline m. lindholm

  • Posts: 12
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #247 on: March 21, 2019, 02:22 PM »
of all things, cosmetic appearance problems with production...

Saaaay...those, "seconds", shall we call them...they wouldn't be eventually available at a discounted rate, would they? Obviously their usability depends on the fault, be it blotchy anodizing, visible machining marks, illegible scale etching, or whatever else.

In the meantime, I went ahead and got a GRS ordered, and am twiddling my thumbs to nubs waiting for that March 25th expected ship date to arrive.

Offline lerabotperche

  • Posts: 43
    • What I do and how I do it :)
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #248 on: April 01, 2019, 11:36 AM »
did someone tried this alternative to TSO ?https://www.assistent-system.fr/profiles/210-equerre-equetrack.html

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 932
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #249 on: April 01, 2019, 12:49 PM »
My experience lead me to be patient and wait for TSO  [big grin] no substitute anymore  [embarassed]
Mario

Offline dr.r.lam

  • Posts: 22
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #250 on: April 10, 2019, 08:32 PM »
I expect that when they release the units for pre-order that they will post here?
Or should I be religiously checking the website?

Offline jasen

  • Posts: 41
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #251 on: April 10, 2019, 11:13 PM »
@dr.r.lam I was thinking the same thing. So I just check religiously everyday as part of my morning routine :)> I'm sure the guys at TSO will let us know as well. Cheers

Offline TSO Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #252 on: April 20, 2019, 08:53 PM »
@Mario Turcot - @dr.r.lam - @jasen  and @lerabotperche -  finally specific dates: Expect a TSO INSIDER shipping announcement for the TPG-30  two weeks from now – on May  4th and for the TPG-50 a week later  - on May 11th with each date followed by production shipments. FOG posts to this effect will appear right after the TSO INSIDER has gone out.

Meanwhile you’ll notice revisions bringing our TPG-Series product page up to date step-by-step.

To sign up for the TSO INSIDER look on the bottom of our webpages: https://tsoproducts.com/tso-parallel-guide-system/

Hans and Eric
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline rj_mccall

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #253 on: April 20, 2019, 10:25 PM »
This is great news Hans.

Has everything been fixed regarding the TSO Insoder newsletter? I still have never received one through email.

Thanks

Offline TSO Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #254 on: April 20, 2019, 10:45 PM »
This is great news Hans.

Has everything been fixed regarding the TSO Insoder newsletter? I still have never received one through email.

Thanks
@rj_mccall – if TSOproducts.com is  in your address book you should see a new TSO INSIDER arrive in your In-box over the weekend April 27/28. PM me with your email address as you have subscribed.

I was surprised at the relatively high percentage of un-delivered emails which are considered “normal” in the email service business like MailChimp. Apparently, the various major players in the internet business ae finding ways to pour the baby out with the bathwater – blocking not only spam but a fair volume of legitimate mass mailing communication. We’re not satisfied with the answers we’re getting from MailChimp.

Perhaps another FOGger can point us in a direction for better service.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #255 on: April 21, 2019, 09:59 AM »
Hans, Thanks for the update, can't wait :)

As for email, I am a subscriber for over a year and received only one news letter from T.S.O. I checked my spam folder and there was no TSO email.

Q: Can left & right hand tracks be attached to the GRS-16 PE?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 10:04 AM by Mario Turcot »
Mario

Offline TSO Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #256 on: April 21, 2019, 12:56 PM »
@rj_mccall and @Mario Turcot ;
Here is what Eric found today:
“We have him in the database to receive transactional emails about the order he placed on 9-2017. He has not subscribed to the Insider”.
TSO INSIDER mailing go only to individuals registered specifically to receive it. We interpret privacy to mean that only (purchase) transaction related emails like tracking, order confirmation, etc can be sent. Mass mailings like the TSO INSIDER are considered by TSO to be wanted only when specifically requested by “subscribing”.
rj_mccall is in our database for his purchase 7:40pm Sept. 3rd 2017. But he is not registered to receive the TSO INSIDER.
Anyone  with expertise on this subject on the FOG?

Hans and Eric
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #257 on: April 21, 2019, 09:32 PM »
@rj_mccall and @Mario Turcot ;
Here is what Eric found today:
“We have him in the database to receive transactional emails about the order he placed on 9-2017. He has not subscribed to the Insider”.
TSO INSIDER mailing go only to individuals registered specifically to receive it. We interpret privacy to mean that only (purchase) transaction related emails like tracking, order confirmation, etc can be sent. Mass mailings like the TSO INSIDER are considered by TSO to be wanted only when specifically requested by “subscribing”.
rj_mccall is in our database for his purchase 7:40pm Sept. 3rd 2017. But he is not registered to receive the TSO INSIDER.
Anyone  with expertise on this subject on the FOG?

Hans and Eric

Hans, thanks for looking into this.

From what I recall I did, but to make sure I clicked on the link above to access the TSO parallel guide system. At the bottom of the page I clicked on the subscribe link and subscribed to the TSO Insider. I received that message:


I understand that this is for your insider communication, which I rarely or never received any email (checked spam too). I did not found any where to subscribe to the parallel guide system update. Did I miss something?
Mario

Offline rich1

  • Posts: 37
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #258 on: April 22, 2019, 12:02 AM »
@Mario Turcot - @dr.r.lam - @jasen  and @lerabotperche -  finally specific dates: Expect a TSO INSIDER shipping announcement for the TPG-30  two weeks from now – on May  4th and for the TPG-50 a week later  - on May 11th with each date followed by production shipments. FOG posts to this effect will appear right after the TSO INSIDER has gone out.

Meanwhile you’ll notice revisions bringing our TPG-Series product page up to date step-by-step.

To sign up for the TSO INSIDER look on the bottom of our webpages: https://tsoproducts.com/tso-parallel-guide-system/

I am unable to purchase the TPG  30/20 both hands, do I have to wait for an Insider email... I've entered several times and yet to receive an email.

Hans and Eric

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 319
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #259 on: April 29, 2019, 04:35 PM »
@Mario Turcot - @dr.r.lam - @jasen  and @lerabotperche -  finally specific dates: Expect a TSO INSIDER shipping announcement for the TPG-30  two weeks from now – on May  4th and for the TPG-50 a week later  - on May 11th with each date followed by production shipments. FOG posts to this effect will appear right after the TSO INSIDER has gone out.

Meanwhile you’ll notice revisions bringing our TPG-Series product page up to date step-by-step.

To sign up for the TSO INSIDER look on the bottom of our webpages: https://tsoproducts.com/tso-parallel-guide-system/

Hans and Eric

Was browsing your site and happily surprised you went back to BLUE!


Mike

Offline dr.r.lam

  • Posts: 22
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #260 on: May 05, 2019, 11:02 PM »
Expect a TSO INSIDER shipping announcement for the TPG-30  two weeks from now – on May  4th and for the TPG-50 a week later  - on May 11th with each date followed by production shipments. FOG posts to this effect will appear right after the TSO INSIDER has gone out.

Eagerly awaiting any updates!

Although the adjustable dogs look good, they're certainly not the TPG System!
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 01:16 AM by dr.r.lam »

Offline rj_mccall

  • Posts: 21
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #261 on: May 10, 2019, 01:51 PM »
@Mario Turcot - @dr.r.lam - @jasen  and @lerabotperche -  finally specific dates: Expect a TSO INSIDER shipping announcement for the TPG-30  two weeks from now – on May  4th and for the TPG-50 a week later  - on May 11th with each date followed by production shipments. FOG posts to this effect will appear right after the TSO INSIDER has gone out.

Meanwhile you’ll notice revisions bringing our TPG-Series product page up to date step-by-step.

To sign up for the TSO INSIDER look on the bottom of our webpages: https://tsoproducts.com/tso-parallel-guide-system/

Hans and Eric

Has an insider newsletter circulated regarding the TPG product line?

Offline TSO Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #262 on: May 10, 2019, 08:49 PM »
@Mario Turcot - @dr.r.lam - @jasen  and @lerabotperche -

Has an insider newsletter circulated regarding the TPG product line?

the  TSO INSIDER release date announcement of the TPG-Series Parallel Guide is already programmed to be in mailboxes as planned around the world this weekend: May 11/12.

Let us share with you the approach we are taking with all our new product introductions. We will have the complete product offering in the warehouse, initially in limited quantities. All of our new product roll-outs will typically be met by demand in excess of our ability to immediately fulfill.

Rest assured that follow-on production materials are already in the pipeline several months into the future. We will be ramping up as quickly as is responsible to do.
We expect it will take several months before we have product to fill our dealer supply line, not just our own stock.

Remember: it’s not just you wonderful people out there wanting our product – for TSO it is a necessity to ship.

We are motivated!
Hans, Eric and the whole TSO Team

TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1378
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #263 on: May 10, 2019, 08:58 PM »
@TSO Products
When will we be able to buy a GRS-16 PE square plus a left hand 50" track and flip stop only?

Offline TSO Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #264 on: May 10, 2019, 09:38 PM »
@TSO Products
When will we be able to buy a GRS-16 PE square plus a left hand 50" track and flip stop only?
the GRS-16 PE parts just came back from anodizing this afternoon so its just getting into the assembly- packing and warehousing schedule, perhaps a week.

The TPG-50 Track is planned only as a pair for now. I'd say buy the pair, it will never cost less. The whole question of "which combinations will customers actually buy" - is really the big unknown for us from a production planning standpoint. Only time will tell what adjustments need to be made to our offerings and product groupings.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline jasen

  • Posts: 41
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #265 on: May 15, 2019, 02:53 AM »
FYI  To help the team at TSO with what I can imagine as a busy time starting today :), I thought I'd post here to let others know of some of the issues in ordering. I sent them an email and thought if we state the issue here in this thread it will save the guys reading / being notified of the same issue.

As hans is said its best to email @info but mentioning it here, at least helps others whether TSO know about the issue.

I hope that all makes sense.

Issue 1: If you want to order the PE square - you can't - as it's not in stock - not an issue if you dont want to get a $10 discount or purchase the PE.

Issue 2: At the time of this post you can't order the TPG20 & TPG30 as its still "Notify" - might be my timing.

Cheers

Offline dr.r.lam

  • Posts: 22
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #266 on: May 15, 2019, 05:48 AM »

Issue 1: If you want to order the PE square - you can't - as it's not in stock - not an issue if you dont want to get a $10 discount or purchase the PE.



Thanks for that!
I tried so desperately to get my order in, but could not get any of the options to work and now I know why! For what its worth I need to get a PE or 2.


Hopefully they'll let me pre-order, to lock in one of the TPG's and wait for the PE's to be back in stock.

Offline reidbailey

  • Posts: 19
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #267 on: May 15, 2019, 01:15 PM »
Ordered a TPG 50 complete system this morning and received tracking information this afternoon. Very efficient! Can’t wait to put this to use it!

Thanks Hans!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline rmhinden

  • Posts: 199
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #268 on: May 15, 2019, 01:31 PM »
I received an email that it was available and ordered it last night.  Also got a tracking notice this morning.

Bob

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #269 on: May 15, 2019, 04:46 PM »
- glad to hear the notification system is working. It has been the most reliable way to communicate availability .

Hans

Offline Reed Hoyer

  • Posts: 29
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #270 on: May 15, 2019, 07:31 PM »
That makes sense, I suppose.  And I certainly understand the multifunctionalty of having the squares and the guides.  Still, for someone starting from zero, like I am, it makes this an almost 600.00 proposition.  I am sure it's worth it- just makes it a bit harder to jump on.

@Dane $600 is a big number, I agree. If I were starting my woodworking journey today, instead of 6 years ago, I think I would purchase the full TSO setup before I bought my MFT/3. While I really like the table and use it in other ways than making crosscuts, I think I'd much rather have worked from the floor on a 2" sheet of XPS foam with the TSO setup than standing up on a tiny table. It's trivial to make/purchase an inexpensive surface to use for clamping or assembly. Perfect squares and repeatable parallel cuts are tough to come by.

Offline Reed Hoyer

  • Posts: 29
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #271 on: May 15, 2019, 07:33 PM »
From here it looks like the tso parallel guide suffers from the same clumsy ness as the Festool. That the guide stops have to be at the ends of the material being cut. What makes the Seneca and woodpecker easier to handle is that the guide rails that connect to the cutting rails can be at at any distance as they rest on top of what they are cutting as opposed to be at the ends.

@glass1 - please help us understand what makes for "clumsiness" in the FESTOOL parallel guide (- and what you have so far seen of the TSO TPG System) ?

Your feedback may help us decide to speed up the availability of our optional TPG Rail Adapter (p/n 610-409) which accomplishes exactly what you are referring to.

Hans

The clumsiness of the Festool guides is their desire to be perpendicular to the floor rather than parallel. It appears TSO's solution eliminates that by resting its rails on the material rather than next to it.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 319
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #272 on: May 15, 2019, 09:42 PM »
From here it looks like the tso parallel guide suffers from the same clumsy ness as the Festool. That the guide stops have to be at the ends of the material being cut. What makes the Seneca and woodpecker easier to handle is that the guide rails that connect to the cutting rails can be at at any distance as they rest on top of what they are cutting as opposed to be at the ends.

@glass1 - please help us understand what makes for "clumsiness" in the FESTOOL parallel guide (- and what you have so far seen of the TSO TPG System) ?

Your feedback may help us decide to speed up the availability of our optional TPG Rail Adapter (p/n 610-409) which accomplishes exactly what you are referring to.

Hans

The clumsiness of the Festool guides is their desire to be perpendicular to the floor rather than parallel. It appears TSO's solution eliminates that by resting its rails on the material rather than next to it.

When making test cuts before my first project I found my cuts to be off and initially blamed the TSO square but it was my rail. I have two 55"and one 118" Makita rails plus a 75" Festool rail. One of the 55" Makita rails was off by 3/16" over the 55" (it was new so I got it replaced). So first make sure the rail is straight.

I used my TSO GRS 16-PE square on a real project (simple bookcase) for the first time a couple weeks ago. I had to make a few 48" cross cuts. I marked both the near and far end with my cut line. I registered the square and anti-chip edge at the near side and the far end of the anti-chip was spot on the other pencil mark. I measured across the corners and dimensions were within 1/32".

I made several 10" to 12" cross cuts and had excellent results but had to mark every piece while I wait for the TSO TPG.

So, if you are cutting at least up to 48" I see no need for two squares and two sets of parallel guides putting you under $300. I haven't tried the square for a cut with my 118" rail for a full 96" rip but that may require two parallel stops. I use another jig for ripping long lengths.


Mike
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 08:44 AM by Mike Goetzke »

Offline BarneyD

  • Posts: 83
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #273 on: May 17, 2019, 04:44 PM »
I just received my TPG 20 & 30 RH kit today (had previously purchased the GRS-16) and I'm very impressed. Took me about 30 seconds to calibrate it to my guide rails. I've not tried the narrow rip rod and likely never will. I prefer to do that on the table saw. But the fit, finish, and packaging are all superb.  So kudos to Hans and Eric for a very well designed and executed product.
Barney

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 319
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #274 on: May 22, 2019, 09:33 PM »
@tjbnwi  @TSO_Products

Received my TPG-50 complete set today. These are not only beautiful but very functional and quick to setup. I have three Makita rails and a Festool rail. Once calibrated all line up perfectly. Probably need to tweak calibration if I install one of the other arms??? Didn't test that yet.

Couple questions:

1) Where is the best place to place the cursor? Middle of the tick mark or left/right side of it. Taking me a little bit to have confidence centering right on top of it. Maybe experience will help.

2) Don't know why but I just noticed that the 20 & 30 have etched scales but the 50 a glued on scale. Curious why this is?

I only made a few test cuts but this is a perfect compliment to any track saw. I don't have enough experience with the square but seems to me it is easier to square the lumber the to square with the parallel arm in place. Over the next week I have some planter boxes to build for my wife with many repetitive cuts. Will report back how it works out.

(Side question - anyone else have Makita and Festool rails? I find the guide rib on the Festool rail to be little wider requiring me to adjust the saw when I go from rail to rail. Need a solution to this - maybe shim/tape?)

Thanks,

Mike


Offline tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #275 on: May 22, 2019, 09:52 PM »
@Mike Goetzke,

I set the cursor rail side face in line with the tick mark rail side face. To me that is the distance I am looking for. I also find it easy to align them this way, I'm not splitting the line unless absolutely necessary.

If you're going to use tape to take up some slop use UHMW slick tape.

Tom

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #276 on: May 23, 2019, 03:58 AM »
TSO is stepping up production with particular emphasis on the TPG combination purchased most frequently.

@Mike Goetzke- the choice of a STARRETT bench tape on the 50 inch T-track is for reasons of manufacturing convenience. If it turns out that engraving of this long part makes more sense later on, we may change that.

We worked hard on packaging and will appreciate submittal of pictures of any shipping damage of packaging shortcomings  which will help us improve. I was at AXMINSTER TOOLS & MACHINERY earlier this week and the individually FedEx shipped TPG-50 sample arrived completely intact as have all the other test packages we have shipped back  and forth across the US  multiple times.

Your experience reports are appreciated via email to
      info@tsoproducts.com

Hans
(from Europe at the moment)

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1378
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #277 on: May 24, 2019, 04:42 PM »
@TSO Products

What is the the maximum width each track can cut to...20", 30", and 50"?

I assume it is approximately the width of the Festool guide rail and splinter strip plus the length of the TSO track used?

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #278 on: May 25, 2019, 04:26 AM »
@TSO Products

What is the the maximum width each track can cut to...20", 30", and 50"?

I assume it is approximately the width of the Festool guide rail and splinter strip plus the length of the TSO track used?

@RobBob  - TSO's t-track numbering refers to the nominal maximum width you can rip. The actual length of each t-track is shorter than it's name by the width of the guide rail including splinter guard.

Hans

Offline lerabotperche

  • Posts: 43
    • What I do and how I do it :)
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #279 on: June 13, 2019, 05:31 PM »
why cthe DBF-45 can't be set on festool rail ??? I mean, this is a long awaited thing.

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 146
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #280 on: June 13, 2019, 05:51 PM »
why cthe DBF-45 can't be set on festool rail ??? I mean, this is a long awaited thing.
Now there's a good idea! Something that would reference off a track with an adjustable offset sounds like a winner. Compatibility with MFS tracks would be a nice to have too.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 05:53 PM by Roachmill »

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5799
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #281 on: June 13, 2019, 08:54 PM »
@TSO_Products

Ill let ya know tomorrow as mines should be delivered tomorrow and Monday.

Bought r/h side then the next day bought l/h side and another grs. Some ones coming Monday and the other Tomorrow


Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 319
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #282 on: June 14, 2019, 09:20 AM »
@TSO_Products

Ill let ya know tomorrow as mines should be delivered tomorrow and Monday.

Bought r/h side then the next day bought l/h side and another grs. Some ones coming Monday and the other Tomorrow

Your going to like them!

I'm on my second project - sewing machine cabinet for my daughter. Last weekend had half day to work on the dovetailed drawers. I used the GRS/TPG for most of he components but couple drawers have sides narrower than the rail width so I ended up cutting those on the table saw.

I was going to try the narrow stock rods on the TPG but didn’t feel like messing with it and didn’t want to take off my calibrated plunger on the flip stop. I'll probably mess around with it some more this weekend. Need to gain confidence in cutting narrow stock with this setup before applying it to a project piece.

Was thinking another set of flip stops dedicated to the rods might be nice but that a little $pricey$ at about $50/per.

Would be nice if the TSO far end t/track attachment for the second thin stock rod didn’t go under the rail like the GRS's. Maybe attach the t-track like Woodpecker’s or Seneca’s parallel guides to the rail top groove. This way you wouldn’t have to worry about the square needing to register the end of the the wood on the far end and allow more freedom for the position of this second material stop.

I agree with Hans/TSO/others that the TS is better for thinner rips but some don’t have a TS and in my case if I need to drag out and set up my TS in my space constrained garage/shop might as well use that instead of the GRS/TPG for all of my work.

I'm sure as more get their hands on the TPG's there will be ideas/experience on how to accurately produce thin rips.

Mike

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2670
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #283 on: June 14, 2019, 06:43 PM »
Just placed my order for the full kit today!

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5799
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #284 on: June 15, 2019, 12:17 AM »
My R/H side came today. I must say it was pkg real good. Not even a scratch on the box.

Well done Hans

Offline tazprime38

  • Posts: 262
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #285 on: June 15, 2019, 05:05 AM »
I received my TPG50 kit along with the guide rail connecting bars yesterday. For some reason, delivery took a month to the UK. Had to pay £73.10 (82.08 Euros) customs charge [sad]. UPS have no way of paying this online and only accept cash and they have no facility to provide a receipt.  The drive was great though as he signed the box with his driver ID number and name.

With customs charge added this has cost me 507 Euros which is expensive but the quality of the product is very high.

Items were packaged very well. I don't think there is any damage (have only checked the small tracks so far). The GRC12 guide rail connecting bars were also in the box as I ordered these at the same time. This cost an extra $10 in postage but maybe the postage for the TPG50 alone should have been sufficient to cover this extra small weight?

The TPG50 is well engineered as are the guide rail connecting bars. These also work in connecting the parallel guide tracks together nicely but not needed as the three lengths of the TPG should cover most work. Also, you would not be able to use the stops where the connecting bar is connected as the tracks are single slot t tracks not double.

I sold my Festool parallel guides including the large storage case for a very good price which covered the cost of these TPG50 and GRC12 and still left me in profit  [big grin].

Tariq
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 06:07 AM by tazprime38 »

Offline simonh

  • Posts: 68
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #286 on: June 15, 2019, 05:37 AM »
Hans,

Are Axminster UK going to stock this at some point? I'd like to get hold of the TPG-50 but I'd rather buy from a UK dealer without having the import duties and shipping costs for a single package.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 319
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #287 on: June 22, 2019, 10:58 AM »
Working on a sewing cabinet project and thought I'd show off my TPG. The project required two sheets of ply cut into 12 pieces. I was going to make my rip cuts first and thought I'd see how accurate of a cut I could get with only using a RHS t-track and TSO square.

Don't know if I was lucky but I was shocked to find I was only off by 1/32" ove 8'. I measured from the back side of the rail to the edge of the board - so probably not the best way to check but I'm still impressed:








Even though this looked to be acceptable accuracy I added my LHS TPG for my cuts:



I've been working with another track saw systems for many years but this was not only quicker but more accurate than my previous method of breaking down sheet goods. I still had to measure every piece vertical/horizontal/diagonal but my confidence is growing.

Some comments on the system:

1) When I put the various length t-tracks on I held them toward the rail when tightening. Seems like the stop plunger is in the correct position for all tracks w/o need for calibration but I need to verify this with test cuts.

(Edited: test cut with all 6 t-tracks and found the 20” & 30” LHS/RHS are almost spot on to each other but both 50” cut 1/16” oversized. Have to think how to correct for this as I don’t want to calibrate for every setup.)

2) On size of the tracks. A 50" was added from requests but my project had a couple cuts just over that. I just marked them and cut. So maybe no need for the 50" track? This is my second project with the TPG but finding the 30" may be all you need for most of the work.

3) Wish the LHS t-track didn't depend on a square that attaches to the underside of the rail. On setup it's one more thing that takes time to make sure the tracks are centered - i.e. the sheet needs to be trapped between the squares. Maybe a rail connector similar to WP and Seneca PEG's?

4) Holding settings. I saw complaints about the WP system with so many connectors losing setting with common bumping of the stops. I actually found the same on the TPG! This occurred at both the flipstop to t-track and flipstop plunger. I found you really need to tighten everything very tight.

Mike
« Last Edit: June 22, 2019, 01:04 PM by Mike Goetzke »

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2670
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #288 on: June 22, 2019, 11:21 AM »
Just got my set delivered yesterday. Tried the GRS16 and had perfect results squaring a plastic panel that I needed to do. Cannot wait to try the rest of the pieces out...

Offline rmhinden

  • Posts: 199
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #289 on: July 11, 2019, 04:02 PM »
I purchased the TPG-20 & TPG-30 Parallel Guide System (Right Hand) set and used them for the first time a few days ago to cut some plywood.

I am impressed, was very easy to install and calibrate on my GRS-16 guide rail square.   Then set the cursor to the width of the cuts I wanted to make and made the cuts.   All very easy and accurate.

Good product!

Bob

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 319
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #290 on: July 30, 2019, 10:44 AM »
I know all tools have their limits but I'm having fun working on a project that I'm trying to use the TPG on as much as possible.

For all my panel cuts the GRS/TPG system is spot on! I ran into a small issue over the weekend when I was using the GRS/TPG to cut some hardwood drawer fronts which I would usually do on the TS & SCMS. The parts were 8-1/2" x 9-1/2". I was surprised when I found the cut to be off by almost 1/16" when I was within 1/32" over 96" on the ply cuts. The parts were wider at the end of the cut.

I was thinking that this was probably the result of the part moving as I cut it. Not as much anti-slip pad on the piece and not much area registering against the square.

I have the RH & LH TPG. I know the LH was developed for the long cuts but was thinking it may have helped for material trying to move on my small pieces. If I had the TPG material stops at the top & bottom of the piece to be cut this would resist it from moving during the cut. May try this out this weekend.

Mike

Offline tazprime38

  • Posts: 262
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #291 on: August 20, 2019, 06:16 AM »
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 06:19 AM by tazprime38 »

Offline AndrewG

  • Posts: 104
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #292 on: August 26, 2019, 05:28 AM »
Is there a way of using the TSO parallel guides in a shop made MFT (using the parf guide system). I’ve seen members use it with the swing mount on an MFT, but is there any other way of attaching it eg with rails dogs?

Thanks!

Offline TSO Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #293 on: August 26, 2019, 08:04 AM »
Is there a way of using the TSO parallel guides in a shop made MFT (using the parf guide system). I’ve seen members use it with the swing mount on an MFT, but is there any other way of attaching it eg with rails dogs?

Thanks!

@AndrewG -  you raise an interesting question.

There is no reason not to use the TSO Parallel Guide on a shop made 20mm pattern workbench just as you can use the system on any flat surface without any holes at all.

Help me picture a situation where a hinged arrangement would really be helpful for ripping.
Can you provide some specific examples of workpiece dimensions you are trying to rip? Typically ripping involves a larger workpiece or even a full sheet to start with. The idea with track saws is to take the smaller tools to the larger workpiece.

The TSO Parallel Guide is so easy to handle and move around, we find it simpler to leave the sheet of material where it is and move the Parallel Guide and guide rail – either still assembled, or as Tom Bader (tjbnwi on the Fog) has shown earlier in this thread, unsnap the GRS-16 with the Parallel Track still attached and then move/relocate the Guide Rail. This is especially helpful if you have a very long Guide Rail or connected pair.

Tell us a little more about your idea – we are always interested in different approaches to the work.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline AndrewG

  • Posts: 104
Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #294 on: August 26, 2019, 09:11 AM »
Hi Hans,

I was more so referring to a cross cut operation rather than ripping similar to how the Festool MFT works, but without the swing mount etc. My original plan was to make my MFT bench, then use a fence with a scale secured with fence dogs and have my rail secured with parf dogs/clips. Then I just set my measurement, bring my piece to the fence and away I go.

So I was wondering if there is a way of making the TPG work in this way? Or is more of a case of bringing the guides to the work piece?

Reading your reply however, it seems the parallel guides are rather easy to take on/off and may be an alternative option to having a fence secured to the MFT.

I hope this make sense.

Cheers




Offline TSO Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #295 on: August 29, 2019, 08:54 PM »
Hi Hans,

I was more so referring to a cross cut operation rather than ripping similar to how the Festool MFT works, but without the swing mount etc. My original plan was to make my MFT bench, then use a fence with a scale secured with fence dogs and have my rail secured with parf dogs/clips. Then I just set my measurement, bring my piece to the fence and away I go.

So I was wondering if there is a way of making the TPG work in this way? Or is more of a case of bringing the guides to the work piece?

Reading your reply however, it seems the parallel guides are rather easy to take on/off and may be an alternative option to having a fence secured to the MFT.

I hope this make sense.

Cheers

@AndrewG - you said it: bring the TSO parallel guides to the workpiece  - they're easy-on / easy-off.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA