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Author Topic: 120v/60 Hz Saw Running on 100v/50 Hz current  (Read 8763 times)

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Offline Axeyard

  • Posts: 7
120v/60 Hz Saw Running on 100v/50 Hz current
« on: January 11, 2010, 06:44 AM »
I'm using several Festool products [120v/60 Hz] on my local [non-USA] 100v/50 Hz current.

The router sounds fine, but the TS 55 saw has a slight "clattering" sound, not a clear whine. It's not radical, but it's noticeable. Not sure if that's normal or not.

I'm hoping/guessing, based on a little research, that the only effect of the 100v/50 Hz current should be that the tools will run a tad slower.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

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Offline jvsteenb

  • Posts: 363
Re: 120v/60 Hz Saw Running on 100v/50 Hz current
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2010, 07:24 AM »
The sound is actually quite normal. Show me a TS55 with a clear whine ( while not under load ) and I'll show you a TS55 with defective electronics.
It's got to do with the electronics that regulate the constant effective output while under different loads.
The sound may be a bit annoying at first, but it doesn't affect the performance of the saw and you'll get used to it.

Regards,

Job
TS55, OF1010, RO150, RTS400, PS300, T15+3, CTL22E, CMS-TS55+Basis5A (OF1010), MFT/3, MFS400/700, FS800-1080-1400-1900, Centrotec-SYS 09, DF 500 full set, some accessories :)

Offline jonny round boy

  • Posts: 3227
Re: 120v/60 Hz Saw Running on 100v/50 Hz current
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2010, 08:20 AM »
I'm using several Festool products [120v/60 Hz] on my local [non-USA] 100v/50 Hz current.

The router sounds fine, but the TS 55 saw has a slight "clattering" sound, not a clear whine. It's not radical, but it's noticeable. Not sure if that's normal or not.

I'm hoping/guessing, based on a little research, that the only effect of the 100v/50 Hz current should be that the tools will run a tad slower.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

With the Festool tools, the speed is controlled electronically. Whether this is purely electronic or frequency-based in some way, I don't know, but if it's the former then they shouldn't run any slower. Voltage wise there shouldn't be any difference either - unless your supply is at the lower end of it's tolerance, then you're still within tolerance for a 110v supply (a 110v supply is usually +/-10%, so could dip as low as 99v).

Edit: just noticed the US tools voltage is 120v, not 110v. Sorry!

I'm guessing you're in Japan, since that's the only country that runs 100V @50Hz?

Edit 2: PS - welcome to the forum!
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 08:22 AM by jonny round boy »
Festoolian since February 2006

TS55R EBQ saw - CTL26 - CTL Mini - OF1400EBQ router - KS120 Kapex SCMS - ETS150/3 sander - RO90 sander - DF500 Domino - PDC18/4 drill - PSC420 jigsaw - OFK500 trimmer

Wish list (in no particular order!): Anything not listed above....

Offline Axeyard

  • Posts: 7
Re: 120v/60 Hz Saw Running on 100v/50 Hz current
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2010, 09:25 AM »
You've got me tagged! Japan it is. Very pleased to read all your responses. Sets my mind at ease. I've just got into these Festool products. They're unavailable here, so I've had to import the lot. Totally addictive.

If I might go for one more, though a different topic:

All the blades I've come across here are 155 mm. The TS 55 takes a 150 mm. Do I have 2 mm of leeway in a TS 55, or would that be pushing my luck? Thought I'd take off the cover on the blade housing to have a better look, but I need a special screwdriver -- a bit bigger than the one I use on a Mac Powerbook. Can't remember what this kind of screw is called.

Thanks for the help, that's really great.

Offline jonny round boy

  • Posts: 3227
Re: 120v/60 Hz Saw Running on 100v/50 Hz current
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2010, 09:48 AM »
TS55 blade is 160mm, not 150mm. Therefore, a 155mm replacement blade would be fine. You don't need to take the cover off to change the blade.
Festoolian since February 2006

TS55R EBQ saw - CTL26 - CTL Mini - OF1400EBQ router - KS120 Kapex SCMS - ETS150/3 sander - RO90 sander - DF500 Domino - PDC18/4 drill - PSC420 jigsaw - OFK500 trimmer

Wish list (in no particular order!): Anything not listed above....

Offline Axeyard

  • Posts: 7
Re: 120v/60 Hz Saw Running on 100v/50 Hz current
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2010, 10:24 AM »
A real Doh! moment, for sure. The news keeps getting better all the time! BTW, the kinds support crew at Festool sent me this reply, regarding the motor noise. I'm sure you folks know all of this already, but here goes...:

Different motors will act differently on different current, but generally the larger ones will act closer to ?normal?.  In this case I presume your machine would sound the same here in the U.S. with 120v 60 Hz.  I suspect what you are hearing is actually a feature of the saw that if you were not hearing, would mean there is something wrong with your saw.
 
Most of our products are equipped with what we call MMC Electronics.  MMC is a robust electronic control board that has several functions from thermal and overload protection, to motor monitoring.  A particularly strong feature with motor monitoring is the ability of the electronics to monitor performance and adjust speed through current regulation while at idle and under load.  The benefit of this is to help maintain consistent tip speed under varying load.  So as your feedrate may vary so will the load on the tool.  The electronics are compensating for that.  Also when cutting natural wood products, there is density variation throughout the piece that will affect load and the electronics will compensate for that.
 
To accomplish this ability, the electronics must monitor the speed at a frequency of 60 times a second (60 Hz.).  Your machine may not be doing that optimally on your current; however, it will still do it.
 
So, in effect, what you are hearing is the backlash in the gears as the saw speed is constantly adjusted on the fly to keep tip speed at an optimum pace for the best cut performance.
 
What you are hearing is supposed to be there and is a normal sound associated with the tool.

[Got to love that "clattering" sound, eh?]

Offline Forrest Anderson

  • Posts: 1072
Re: 120v/60 Hz Saw Running on 100v/50 Hz current
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2010, 12:28 PM »
The router sounds fine, but the TS 55 saw has a slight "clattering" sound, not a clear whine. It's not radical, but it's noticeable. Not sure if that's normal or not.

Welcome to the Festool Owners Group!

As a "new recruit", you may not have noticed the Consolidated List of Festool Links which gives links to brochures, manuals, videos, and articles about most things Festool.

One of these links is TS55 Video "The Unusual Sound of the TS Plunge-cut Saws" by Brice Burrell, and if you watch it, you'll hear the noise that a TS55 makes.

Forrest
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 12:36 PM by Forrest Anderson »
Compiler of the Consolidated List of Festool Links - the place to go for Festool reviews, manuals, brochures and videos!

Offline Sometimewoodworker

  • Posts: 752
    • Jerome's  Other work
Re: 120v/60 Hz Saw Running on 100v/50 Hz current
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2010, 01:59 AM »
You've got me tagged! Japan it is. Very pleased to read all your responses. Sets my mind at ease. I've just got into these Festool products. They're unavailable here, so I've had to import the lot. .
.

Humm. Not quite true. There is an importer. it is Halefe http://www.festool.jp/. But there is no dealer information. Pricing or English information, unlike many Japanese sites.

I have just asked a colleague to contact them for me so I may have more information soon. [eek]
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, HL 850, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/

Offline Axeyard

  • Posts: 7
Re: 120v/60 Hz Saw Running on 100v/50 Hz current
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2010, 12:53 PM »
It is quite true that the products I am interested in are either unavailable or are "available" at about twice US prices. The importer you mention appears to be just a front-man with somewhat hypothetical products. But even for power tools made in Japan, prices are much higher here than they are in the US. All in all, it's just a waste of time to try to hunt down such products in this country. One can import 30 kg of tools via USPS at less than $10 per kilo, pay a little tax, forget about warranty. Despite the strong yen, you still have to pay absurd prices for some things in Japan. Thanks for your help.

Regarding the blade size: I should have said that the Festool is 160 mm and local blades are 165 [not 150mm and 155m]. That's why I wanted to take off the cover, so I could have a look at the leeway. [Not to change blades.]
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 10:08 AM by Axeyard »

Offline Sometimewoodworker

  • Posts: 752
    • Jerome's  Other work
Re: 120v/60 Hz Saw Running on 100v/50 Hz current
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2010, 06:22 PM »
It is quite true that the products I am interested in are either unavailable or are "available" at about twice US prices. The importer you mention appears to be just a front-man with somewhat hypothetical products. But even for power tools made in Japan, prices are much higher here than they are in the US.

I have just found that you are under estimating the price difference [eek]
The RO 125 FEQ is 94,500 Yen or 1,022.35 US$ [jawdrop]
http://www.techno-tools.co.jp/
and the  Protool Univers SSP 200 EB is 2,271US$ compared to 1,354 in Europe
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, HL 850, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/

Offline Axeyard

  • Posts: 7
Re: 120v/60 Hz Saw Running on 100v/50 Hz current
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2010, 04:10 AM »
Yep. You're starting to get the picture, Jerome! Even after shipping from US and paying the import duty, it's STILL twice as expensive. I have a simple word for that, after 30 years here: I call it "unavailable."

Thanks for the research, though. I can get an immediate feel for availability by running a product name through a couple of price-comparison sites here. When something is deeply buried like a Festool product, it's "unavailable." There's just no point in looking. The other bellwether is Amazon.co.jp -- if it's not there, it's probably "unavailable" too.

Thanks to all you guys for your input. Festool tech-support USA is most helpful too [thanks, Rick]. I'll be back.