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Author Topic: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.  (Read 98184 times)

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Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1170
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #420 on: March 31, 2019, 09:14 AM »
 Guys, There is a much cheaper and portable solution to owning a Kapex without worrying about it: Print a full size poster of it (with the Kapex 60 in the background perhaps), and hang it behind your cheaper chop saw -- the one that you do use, or bring it (framed) with you to the job site. Problem solved!

Sounds like Festool might just as well hand out free posters to save you the trouble ... on April 1st! [big grin]
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 10:21 AM by ChuckM »

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Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 550
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #421 on: March 31, 2019, 11:03 AM »
Guys, There is a much cheaper and portable solution to owning a Kapex without worrying about it: Print a full size poster of it (with the Kapex 60 in the background perhaps), and hang it behind your cheaper chop saw -- the one that you do use, or bring it (framed) with you to the job site. Problem solved!

Sounds like Festool might just as well hand out free posters to save you the trouble ... on April 1st! [big grin]

If you pull the poster from the wall is there a hole in the wall? A big pipe your money went into straight to festool?

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 550
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #422 on: March 31, 2019, 11:05 AM »
Well the nice thing about the Kapex is, if you set it up properly and never use it....it will never fail...what's not to like about that?

This is similar to the Elio car company approach. People put down a $1000 deposit and never have to pay a cent more to operate their Elio. Of course, they do not actually have a Elio in their possession, but that seems like a trivial point.

Nah, they just convert your deposit to their crypto currency and I'm sure the gains will not only pay for your car, it will come with a bag of money in the passenger seat when they drop it off.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1170
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #423 on: March 31, 2019, 11:12 AM »
Snip.

Sounds like Festool might just as well hand out free posters to save you the trouble ... on April 1st! [big grin]

If you pull the poster from the wall is there a hole in the wall? A big pipe your money went into straight to festool?
[/quote]

Poster owners will have a choice about the hole: it can be either 27mm or 36mm! [tongue]

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 550
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #424 on: March 31, 2019, 12:06 PM »
Snip.

Sounds like Festool might just as well hand out free posters to save you the trouble ... on April 1st! [big grin]

If you pull the poster from the wall is there a hole in the wall? A big pipe your money went into straight to festool?

Poster owners will have a choice about the hole: it can be either 27mm or 36mm! [tongue]
[/quote]

With either size they will complain that the old money hole was superior.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 6277
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #425 on: March 31, 2019, 12:34 PM »

Now, I really would love to give the Kapex 120 a shot but, even with the latest model, I haven't seen or heard anything that can eliminate the nagging doubt I have about a possible issue?

I would almost certainly choose a 240 volt version, as although I've heard of cases with both voltages acting up, the 110-120 volt seems the higher percentage?


Good news...bad news Jiggy.  [smile]

Festool finally released the EKAT parts list files for the new REB version of the Kapex.

For the GB versions in 110V, 230V and 240V all the field coils and armatures listed for the REB have been used before in previous models.  [sad]

For the US version in 120V the old field coil is listed but with a NEW armature part number. Could this be the moment?    [popcorn]
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 12:36 PM by Cheese »

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1170
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #426 on: March 31, 2019, 12:39 PM »
Snip.
For the US version in 120V the old field coil is listed but with a NEW armature part number. Could this be the moment?    [popcorn]

Half glass full here: Could that mean if you ever burned up your motor just once and had it replaced by the NEW armature, you'd then have an ever-lasting happy life with the saw thereafter? [blink]

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 550
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #427 on: March 31, 2019, 12:53 PM »

Now, I really would love to give the Kapex 120 a shot but, even with the latest model, I haven't seen or heard anything that can eliminate the nagging doubt I have about a possible issue?

I would almost certainly choose a 240 volt version, as although I've heard of cases with both voltages acting up, the 110-120 volt seems the higher percentage?


Good news...bad news Jiggy.  [smile]

Festool finally released the EKAT parts list files for the new REB version of the Kapex.

For the GB versions in 110V, 230V and 240V all the field coils and armatures listed for the REB have been used before in previous models.  [sad]

For the US version in 120V the old field coil is listed but with a NEW armature part number. Could this be the moment?    [popcorn]

I would be looking at other parts.  Mainly the parts supplying the power to it.  I'm not a big believer the armature was the issue, but more of a victim of something else.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 700
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #428 on: March 31, 2019, 03:34 PM »

Now, I really would love to give the Kapex 120 a shot but, even with the latest model, I haven't seen or heard anything that can eliminate the nagging doubt I have about a possible issue?

I would almost certainly choose a 240 volt version, as although I've heard of cases with both voltages acting up, the 110-120 volt seems the higher percentage?


Good news...bad news Jiggy.  [smile]

Festool finally released the EKAT parts list files for the new REB version of the Kapex.

For the GB versions in 110V, 230V and 240V all the field coils and armatures listed for the REB have been used before in previous models.  [sad]

For the US version in 120V the old field coil is listed but with a NEW armature part number. Could this be the moment?    [popcorn]

Deep joy!, so, the smart money is on a 120 volt version that is destined accross the pond! Otherwise it’s business as usual!  [blink]

Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #429 on: April 01, 2019, 03:06 PM »
My Kapex went up in smoke twice. First warranty, second time labour only.

The second time I took the motor apart myself to see what I could find.

My conclusion is because the motor is upright with the brushes at the top, the dust falls down. There is an extraction slot at the bottom. But before the dust gets there it accumulates at the top and bottom of the magnets re welding itself into a ring. When it gets to be about one mm thick it breaks off and PUFF.

My plan now is to disassemble the motor once a year and to clean that crap out. Hopefully this will solve the problem.

It is a one to two hour job.

Take pictures of the wiring at the top, there is not much room to get it right.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1170
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #430 on: April 01, 2019, 03:45 PM »
Sounds like a possible measure to keep the chances of "smoking" the Kapex to a minimum (other than not using it [tongue] [big grin]). Is there a way to suck out the dust with a shop vac or dust extractor without any disassembly? I would take a look next time I am in the shop.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 03:52 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 700
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #431 on: April 01, 2019, 04:26 PM »
My Kapex went up in smoke twice. First warranty, second time labour only.

The second time I took the motor apart myself to see what I could find.

My conclusion is because the motor is upright with the brushes at the top, the dust falls down. There is an extraction slot at the bottom. But before the dust gets there it accumulates at the top and bottom of the magnets re welding itself into a ring. When it gets to be about one mm thick it breaks off and PUFF.

My plan now is to disassemble the motor once a year and to clean that crap out. Hopefully this will solve the problem.

It is a one to two hour job.

Take pictures of the wiring at the top, there is not much room to get it right.

Hi there, well it certainly sounds plausible. I wonder if a fine mesh would stop any debris getting in?

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 532
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #432 on: April 01, 2019, 05:11 PM »
Finally some rational discussion on this topic after post after post of bs. And to think many of the moderators have chided me and not all the crap 💩  on this thread.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #433 on: April 01, 2019, 07:43 PM »
This thread has always been about reported issues and theories of what might be wrong with the Kapex.  It continues to be traveling along that avenue.

Moderation hasn't been necessary as far as I remember.

Peter

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 700
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #434 on: April 11, 2019, 06:13 AM »
I agree Peter, I think the thread has been honest and to the point without malice.
I have spoken to a good few Kapex 120 owners now, and read and heard of quite a few of the unfortunate tales of smoke appearing from the motor housing, or sudden power loss, and failure etc.
However, I constantly hear and read about many more positive reviews from very happy owners. So, I like to be open minded about these sort of things.

Currently, I am seriously chomping at the bit to buy one now, as we do need another miter saw, and I’ve fancied one for a while.
I can’t deny I still have doubt, and at the back of my mind, I sort of hope that Festool found out what was causing some of the saws to fail, and have remedied it with the latest model. Albeit still denying or recognising an issue.

Personally I have given up trying to work out if there is any pattern connected to the failures. Simply because I know of cases with both voltages, and with saws that get used in all capacity, even mistreated regularly, and some that are “shelf queens” or wrapped in cotton wool.

The voltage or amperage fluctuations sound plausible but, I would of thought a premium tool such as this would have the relevant protection built in?
So, personally I haven’t a clue, at this stage I’m more concerned about the odds or percentages, and it still seems that any failures are in a very small percentage.

I have to make a decision pretty soon now, between the Makita LS1019L or Festool Kapex KS 120 REB   [unsure] [scratch chin]

Offline Doug S

  • Posts: 436
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #435 on: April 11, 2019, 08:11 AM »
Go for Kapex and UG stand, it is an awesome combination and I would be amazed if Festool have not sorted out the problems by now.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 294
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #436 on: April 11, 2019, 09:11 AM »
Go for Kapex and UG stand, it is an awesome combination and I would be amazed if Festool have not sorted out the problems by now.

$2,435 US with extension wings...amazed might not quite be the perfect word here!

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 6277
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #437 on: April 11, 2019, 09:23 AM »

Currently, I am seriously chomping at the bit to buy one now, as we do need another miter saw, and I’ve fancied one for a while.


Well Jiggy, just to make your decision more painful... [poke]...I absolutely love my Kapex. It's a fantastic saw and the accuracy is unbelievable. Five years later and I'm still impressed when cutting miters. I owned 3 different Milwaukee miter saws before the Kapex and while they were all tough as nails, they seldom cut accurate 45º miters before they'd go back out of misalignment.

If my Kapex goes up in smoke, I'll fix it and if it goes up in smoke a 2nd time, I'll sell it and then buy a new Kapex.  [smile]

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1170
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #438 on: April 11, 2019, 09:47 AM »
Five years later and I'm still impressed when cutting miters.

Accurate bevels too. As I see it, there are only two solutions to the "pain" problem:

i) Go get a Kapex (and worry about it (if you choose to), but no pain)
ii) Take a pain killer everyday while agonizing  if you should get a Kapex.  [tongue]

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4111
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #439 on: April 11, 2019, 09:53 AM »
I’ll join the pile-on.

If anyone is a good candidate to buy a Kepex it’s you Jiggy.
The questionable longevity is really only an issue (in terms of cost effectiveness) for occasional users.

Once you get used to the Kapex the temporary loss due to repair (if it occurs) will have a bigger emotional impact than financial, since you are a professional.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 09:55 AM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 700
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #440 on: April 11, 2019, 02:31 PM »
Haha! You guys are more entertaining than TV!  [thumbs up]
I think you also make a lot of sense too, and in reality life’s too short to worry how long a miter saw will last.

My mind is pretty much made up but, 110 volt or 240 volt?  [scared]  ;)

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 700
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #441 on: April 16, 2019, 06:45 PM »
Well that was short and sweet, my Kapex has bit the dust and I haven’t used it yet  [sad]

I ordered the set from a supplier I haven’t used in a long time. When I enquired about how well it would be packed, I was told it would actually be on a pallet, and therefore no next day delivery. I was assured the packaging would be more than adequate.
Then it did arrive next day, no pallet though, just three boxes, two of which were beaten up a bit.
Well everything is ok, apart from the saw itself, it wasn’t even locked down, just a zip tie through the handle, and some polystyrene?
There is a crack and a hole in the back of the saw, friction marks everywhere, the quick clamp is so badly bent, I can’t remove it, and the angle finder was loose inside and looks like it’s bounced off every part of the saw?

How absolutely disgusting is this?
I had a similar thing a while back with some other brand tools.
The problem is, the factory packaging is fine when the stuff turns up at the dealers, it’s on a pallet, and the right way up. That tool might get sold over the counter, and the customer will keep it upright, unpack it and all is good. Why do these suppliers think the same packaging will survive possible rough handling, being rolled as I’ve seen many times!
My saw was upside down on the van when it arrived?

Not sure if this is a bad omen, I went to buy a saw on Saturday, and as I walked to the counter, they were selling the last one, and now this?

I have emailed the supplier and told them exactly what I think.
I have asked for a replacement saw, as everything else seems ok, or I will get a full refund on everything.

Maybe the manufacturers need to start advising dealers about distance selling packaging, as I know others on here have suffered the same.
I also asked them not to register a possible replacement, as I like to register my own tools, this is a perfect example of why.
Also this is why I like to buy over the counter.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1170
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #442 on: April 16, 2019, 07:13 PM »
Snip.
Also this is why I like to buy over the counter.

Sorry to hear that your Kapex went "bust" so quickly...was it a record? [tongue]

I, too, prefer to buy medium to large size or stationary machines over the counter as any repair/return can be arranged more easily.

These days, delivery service is not reliable because everything is insured for loss or damage; delivery companies treat damage and claims as part of the business cost.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #443 on: April 16, 2019, 08:00 PM »
You’ll get it sorted out I am sure!

Offline pettyconstruction

  • Posts: 518
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #444 on: April 17, 2019, 12:26 AM »
Well that was short and sweet, my Kapex has bit the dust and I haven’t used it yet  [sad]

I ordered the set from a supplier I haven’t used in a long time. When I enquired about how well it would be packed, I was told it would actually be on a pallet, and therefore no next day delivery. I was assured the packaging would be more than adequate.
Then it did arrive next day, no pallet though, just three boxes, two of which were beaten up a bit.
Well everything is ok, apart from the saw itself, it wasn’t even locked down, just a zip tie through the handle, and some polystyrene?
There is a crack and a hole in the back of the saw, friction marks everywhere, the quick clamp is so badly bent, I can’t remove it, and the angle finder was loose inside and looks like it’s bounced off every part of the saw?

How absolutely disgusting is this?
I had a similar thing a while back with some other brand tools.
The problem is, the factory packaging is fine when the stuff turns up at the dealers, it’s on a pallet, and the right way up. That tool might get sold over the counter, and the customer will keep it upright, unpack it and all is good. Why do these suppliers think the same packaging will survive possible rough handling, being rolled as I’ve seen many times!
My saw was upside down on the van when it arrived?

Not sure if this is a bad omen, I went to buy a saw on Saturday, and as I walked to the counter, they were selling the last one, and now this?

I have emailed the supplier and told them exactly what I think.
I have asked for a replacement saw, as everything else seems ok, or I will get a full refund on everything.

Maybe the manufacturers need to start advising dealers about distance selling packaging, as I know others on here have suffered the same.
I also asked them not to register a possible replacement, as I like to register my own tools, this is a perfect example of why.
Also this is why I like to buy over the counter.
I buy a lot of Festool online , but the Kapex I would buy at a brick and mortar store , if anything where to happen to it, I would have a rep to help deal with it. And  save the box.
Charlie


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 6277
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #445 on: April 17, 2019, 12:47 AM »
Well Jiggy what you’ve described is disgusting. It’s certainly not a great way to start a romance. Festool if they’re listening should seriously chastise the distributor.  First impressions are lasting impressions.

I’d immediately reject the saw and ask for a replacement. Who knows what else has been damaged in the shipping process. And why is it your responsibility to ferret it out?

That’s exactly the reason Bob Marino was held in so high esteem in the US. This same situation would never pass muster with him.


Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 700
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #446 on: April 17, 2019, 09:00 AM »
Thanks Cheese, well I sent them a mail last night, and because I was very tired and frustrated, it was very much to the point so to speak.
I got a phone call this morning from the same lady I spoke too before ordering.

To be fair, she was very apologetic, and told me she actually had an argument with the warehouse staff, as she instructed them to put it on a pallet, and their excuse was, by sending it loose it would arrive quicker? No good if it’s not usable though.

Anyway, they offered to collect with a refund, or collect and replace everything, this time on a pallet.
So, I decided to give them another chance to redeem themselves. Only trouble is, because of Easter, it will probably be next week before I see it  [sad]

I had a similar thing early in the year with some Makita tools, a certain company were the only ones who had stock. I cannot describe the mess I discovered when unboxing.
Then to make matters worse, they almost accused me of causing the damage!  [scared]
I eventually took legal advice, and spoke to Makita, who kindly intervened, and turned the situation around. This left a bad taste though, and was the exact reason why I phoned this recent supplier, to make sure the packaging wasn’t scrimped on.

Anyway, hopefully the replacement will be fine, and a new love affair will blossom!  [big grin]
Fingers crossed.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 700
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #447 on: April 17, 2019, 09:04 AM »
Peter and Charlie, thanks, yes I dearly wanted to buy over the counter but, both my usual suppliers are awaiting stock.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 700
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #448 on: April 18, 2019, 05:15 PM »
Just an update, the full replacement set arrived today, on a pallet but, the driver decided to pile other packages on top of it. Don’t think there’s much common sense or consideration around nowadays. I noticed the saw box was on end instead of the right way up  [sad]
Anyway, one box that held the side extensions was a bit squashed but, the contents survived.
The box with the cart/stand was fine and very well internally packed, so all good there.
Then with my heart in my mouth, I got to the Kapex, opened the box, the same four pieces of polystyrene, and a zip tie, all look in tact.
The angle finder again was loose and had obviously had a bit of exercise on the trip but, seemed ok, and worked fine, just can’t understand why this wasn’t in it’s own box etc?
The saw looked fine, but the transport lock wasn't engaged, just foam and a zip tie holding the saw head down? Crazy really.

The work piece clamp, was again clamped to the base, and again because of movement had locked itself up, and took a lot of messing around to release it. It also suffered the same marks to the shaft, and was also slightly bent, anyway, it’s not usable in it’s current state but, everything else is fine, so I’m grateful for that.

The supplier contacted Festool, and they are sending a new clamp direct to me, so not a big deal, and then I’m sorted.
The supplier acted in a very professional way, and tried to sort out the unfortunate situation as quickly as possible, and apart from the clamp, they did. I will remember this in future when buying. Anybody can have issues, it’s how they’re dealt with that matters to me.

It has further made me anxious about buying large or expensive tools online though, as this is the third time I’ve experienced this but, with other brands.
The simple fact is, the packaging is not adequate for any sort of real distance.
Some might argue that the dealer should ensure extra packing, and to some extent I agree. However, the way my tools arrived is the same packing as the dealers get from the manufacturer, and often new stock arrives badly damaged as a consequence, I’ve found out many cases of this in the last year, just from talking to dealers.

I have written to Festool UK today, telling them the story with a few photos, and told them I was obviously a bit disappointed but, I am also trying to give them some input and feedback as a customer. In my opinion some of the packaging is just inadequate, and I have asked them their thoughts about it.

I have had a quick play with the saw, I’m initially very impressed with it and can see why they are held in such high regard. I have owned some great miter saws over the years but, nothing quite like this.
It’s cutting square untouched out of the box, and although the lasers were lined up fine, I adjusted them more to my liking.

Not sure I like the motor sound/tone, it’s not like any of my other saws but, neither is my TS55, that always sounds odd to me?

So, after reading many good, and a good few bad stories about the Kapex, and taking part in this thread, to show I’m game and open minded, (wanted one for a while now) I’ve bought one.

I hope it creates a lot of dust ( for the extractor) but never bites any  [big grin] [thumbs up]

Offline Norfolk Bean

  • Posts: 20
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #449 on: May 13, 2019, 03:49 PM »
Hi,

I haven't posted for some time but do keep tabs of what's going on. Well my Kapex died today half way through a big job  [sad].

I have had it for 7 years but it only gets used on kitchen fits due to it's accuracy. I have a smaller Dewalt for studwork etc.
So it has not had a lot of use really but as it is 7 years old, well out of guarantee.
So will make the call tomorrow to Bury St. Edmunds where I believe they repair them. The good news is it's only 35 miles down the road so will deliver it there myself.
No idea of cost but knowing Festool it is probably going to be expensive.

Will keep you posted on how it goes.