Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.

[antss]

anyone else hear that song by Queen playing in the background ?   

[JimH2]

My 1 year and 11 month old Kapex burned up today.  I'm not going down the rant road as it serves no purpose. I'm merely posting so other FOGgers are aware of yet another failure.

BTW, my saw has always been plugged directly into a 20A or into my CT26 plugged directly into a 20A.  I have never used cords or 15A circuits.  I have never used a generator or invertor. I have cut no thicker than 2x soft wood material.  I have always used a sharp blade.  I have done everything as right as I possibly could.

On to Indiana.

20A or 15A circuit would never make a difference nor should material for the cost of this saw. Also, no need to back up your failure with justifications as to why it should not failing, as there is no excuse for any of them failing. Hopefully with your posting and those by many other people with failures will prevent others from buying them and suffering through a failure. It is obvious Festool has no intention on resolving the issue so the only option is to look elsewhere for a mitre saw.

[VW MICK]

Hi

My kapex is the best saw I've owned and I waited a long time to get it

I love it

Mick

[Harry1561]

Hi

My kapex is the best saw I've owned and I waited a long time to get it

I love it

Mick

I'm with Mick on this one, love the kapex and work it hard too.

[Cheese]

Hi

My kapex is the best saw I've owned and I waited a long time to get it

I love it

Mick

I'm with Mick on this one, love the kapex and work it hard too.

I’ll bet both of you guys have 230 volt models?

[antss]

of course they do 

[Naildrivingman]

My 1 year and 11 month old Kapex burned up today.  I'm not going down the rant road as it serves no purpose. I'm merely posting so other FOGgers are aware of yet another failure.

BTW, my saw has always been plugged directly into a 20A or into my CT26 plugged directly into a 20A.  I have never used cords or 15A circuits.  I have never used a generator or invertor. I have cut no thicker than 2x soft wood material.  I have always used a sharp blade.  I have done everything as right as I possibly could.

On to Indiana.

20A or 15A circuit would never make a difference nor should material for the cost of this saw. Also, no need to back up your failure with justifications as to why it should not failing, as there is no excuse for any of them failing. Hopefully with your posting and those by many other people with failures will prevent others from buying them and suffering through a failure. It is obvious Festool has no intention on resolving the issue so the only option is to look elsewhere for a mitre saw.

I guess I justify only because of the stories I've heard from others who have had failures. Im of the mindset that FT could potentially look for end user fault as a loophole.  I'm going to go one step further when my saw returns.  I will be looking for two independent sources of power and running my CT off a demand switch.  I will no longer be powering the Kapex from the CT.

[antss]

I'm not convinced a dedicated power feed will help.

I guess it can't hurt the situation either. 

[DB10]

  Well the 230v Kapex isn't exempt from going bad. Quite a few reports on the fog over the years about it, just seems the majority of Kapex's burning up seem to be 110v.
 It would be interesting to know what the ratio of sales between 230v & 110v Kapex's is. I would have thought that the 110v Kapex would have been in the minority.

[Cheese]

of course they do 

You don’t know that...they could be 110/120 models used with a tranny. For a proper analytical evaluation, (which we are all dying to perform on any Kapex thread) we need to know the actual facts...not just the assumptions.

[Naildrivingman]

I'm not convinced a dedicated power feed will help.

I guess it can't hurt the situation either. 

I write that utilizing my caveman knowledge of electricity. The combined power consumption of my CT 26 and Kapex with both set at full power is listed on FT USA's site as 2800 watts. Divided by 110V, the result is 25.5A.  Theoretically a 20A circuit should trip under that load.

In fairness I can say that I don't remember tripping a 20A circuit when I've plugged both the CT and Kapex into the same circuit, but from what I've found here and elsewhere it appears that one of the faults of the Kapex lies with inadequate power supply.

I work with another Kapex owner and he runs his system off two independent power sources with a demand switch.  My warrantee clock will expire in about a year. I have to assume that since FT has not commented on a solution, they are simply replacing defective parts with parts from stock that may share the same defect.  I have to do everything I can to prevent this from happening again.

[VW MICK]

Hi

Mine is a 110v one

And it's plugged into one of my 110v sockets in my dado trunking wich  is fed of a 5kva transformer  using the (I think 16ah plug the larger one if anyone can clarify)

All my festools are 110v apart from a couple that are not available

Mick

[Arthur444]

I got my Kapex back today. Customer service was flawless. Took 1 week to get it back. keep in mind it's 13 months old and I'm semi-retired, saw stays in my garage and light use, and the saw is plugged into it's own 30amp breaker 15' from the breaker box. Here is the list of things they replaced, leg spring, end shield, brush holder and brushes, field assembly, gear housing. This saw was really messed up. The day it went out I bought the Makita LS1019L for 517$ and free shipping. I'm keeping the Makita and immediately selling the Kapex. One good thing is that you can buy a bushing so you can use the Kapex blades on a standard 5/8 arbor. I've got 7 Kapex blades so I'm happy I can use them on the Makita.

[Gregor]

Here is the list of things they replaced, leg spring, end shield, brush holder and brushes, field assembly, gear housing.

According to EKAT this covers the complete motor assembly, except the covers and the electronics board.

This saw was really messed up.

My guess is that, unless the thing literally exploded the last time you used it (which I guess you would have noticed), they simply replaced it in total to be able to study it in detail as a whole (send it to a lab or back to the mothership, whatever - without keeping you waiting) in their quest to find the root cause of the problem.
Which I would chalk off as a very good idea.

Another guess is, as they don't employ slaves, that replacing the assemblies in full could be effectively cheaper than having to disassemble them.

But my money is on the first as it wouldn't make sense to replace (or even disassemble) the gear housing just to fix an electricial problem in the rotor or the field packet - pulling the motor including the end shield should be possible without removing the gear housing from the machine at all (unless I overlooked something).

Bottom line: you basically have, from a technical standpoint, a brand new saw.

[Holmz]

//
I write that utilizing my caveman knowledge of electricity. The combined amperage of my CT 26 and Kapex with both set at full power is listed on FT USA's site as 2800 watts. Divided by 110V, the result is 25.5A.  Theoretically a 20A circuit should trip under that load.

In fairness I can say that I don't remember tripping a 20A circuit when I've plugged both the CT and Kapex into the same circuit, but from what I've found here and elsewhere it appears that one of the faults of the Kapex lies with inadequate power supply.
...

A GFI (aka RCID) will trip fast when it sees unequal current.

However many breakers will run forever on 100%. It is 200% that makes them trip quick, and 125% can take a while.
Or at least it is true for mobile breakers.

Whether the vacuum draws full current during startup and whether the Kapex draws full current at startup would need to be measured.

Once they are up to speed then the Kapex should draw SFA, and the vacuum something way less than full rated power.

[Greg M]

I'm not convinced a dedicated power feed will help.

I guess it can't hurt the situation either. 

I write that utilizing my caveman knowledge of electricity. The combined power consumption of my CT 26 and Kapex with both set at full power is listed on FT USA's site as 2800 watts. Divided by 110V, the result is 25.5A.  Theoretically a 20A circuit should trip under that load.

In fairness I can say that I don't remember tripping a 20A circuit when I've plugged both the CT and Kapex into the same circuit, but from what I've found here and elsewhere it appears that one of the faults of the Kapex lies with inadequate power supply.

I work with another Kapex owner and he runs his system off two independent power sources with a demand switch.  My warrantee clock will expire in about a year. I have to assume that since FT has not commented on a solution, they are simply replacing defective parts with parts from stock that may share the same defect.  I have to do everything I can to prevent this from happening again.

The division should be by the volts measured at the outlet, between 120v and 125v, not 110.  Plus the short bursts at full amperage won't heat the breaker enough for it to trip.

I don't see how using the CT would burn up the Kapex.  If anything I would think it would burn up the CT.  I seriously doubt that it's a power supply issue.

Regardless of what's causing these failures it still comes down to a design flaw.  If other manufacturers can produce saws that last forever while being beaten to death then there's absolutely NO reason that a Kapex should die in a shop!!!!!!!

I love my Kapex but all these accounts of them dying make me too nervous to trust it.

My opinion is that Festool is foolish to have let this go on soooo long!  Their prices are too high already and they continue to raise them every year.  They justify this by how reliable and dependable their precision tools are.  I have a good bit of Festool tools so I do find value in them.  However, I've also stopped buying them.  This Kapex problem made me realize that Festool tools just might not last long enough for me to justify the HIGH price.  It's a shame because they really are terrific tools.

[Holmz]

I'm not convinced a dedicated power feed will help.

I guess it can't hurt the situation either. 

I write that utilizing my caveman knowledge of electricity.
...

The division should be by the volts measured at the outlet, between 120v and 125v, not 110.  Plus the short bursts at full amperage won't heat the breaker enough for it to trip.
...

I thought is is nominally 120v, with the allowable 110-125.
http://www.spgsamerica.com/information/acceptable-voltage-ranges

[Naildrivingman]

I'm not convinced a dedicated power feed will help.

I guess it can't hurt the situation either. 

I write that utilizing my caveman knowledge of electricity.
...

The division should be by the volts measured at the outlet, between 120v and 125v, not 110.  Plus the short bursts at full amperage won't heat the breaker enough for it to trip.
...

I thought is is nominally 120v, with the allowable 110-125.
http://www.spgsamerica.com/information/acceptable-voltage-ranges

That's why I wrote "caveman knowledge".

I was under the impression that American voltage is assigned a nominal voltage of 110 volts, with 120 being on the upper end of the scale.  That's why I used 110 as the divisor.  I've checked voltage at outlets a few times and I don't recall readings at or above 120.  Generally I see readings in the upper hundred-teens (116, 117, 118...)

[overanalyze]

My area has high voltage...consistently reads 125+/- ....actually wonder if that is part of the problem??...

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Bohdan]

What readings do you get at the wall outlet that the saw is plugged into when the saw is under load?

[overanalyze]

What readings do you get at the wall outlet that the saw is plugged into when the saw is under load?

I don't know. I have never tested that. I can on Monday and see what it reads.

[kevinculle]

Nominal voltage in my area runs 120-125V.

[Cheese]

Hey 👋 Naildrivingman,
Voltages on the east side of the Mississippi run 119-121.

[Holmz]

My area has high voltage...consistently reads 125+/- ....actually wonder if that is part of the problem??...

No! not usually.

Too low of voltage generally translates to more current, and current gets converted to heat.
Hence brown-outs are generally a bigger issue.

If the mechanism was some arcing between windings then more voltage is not better. But a 230v motor would have move more voltage than a 110v.

The best people to investigate the issue is Festool, but I am not sure where they are at with it.

[Cheese]

The best people to investigate the issue is Festool, but I am not sure where they are at with it.

I’m not sure Festool knows where they’re at with it. I was told several years ago by a Festool
rep that corporate was well aware of the problem, even whincing when the subject matter came up in conversation, however they didn’t have a solution. That does not bode well for this issue.

[Holmz]

Some people claim that the US power grid, and world power grid in general, is the most complex system invented by man.
I saw this on some documentary, and the argument seemed compelling.
It is definitely beyond caveman level of understanding, but the documentary was easy enough to follow and started with N. Tesla, Westinghouse, and Edison.

The fact that most other tools seem to work being attached to the power grid, would imply that the power grid is not broken.

When someone suggests looking at the power grid, and knowing that the power grid is complex, seems like a roundabout message.

[Cheese]

The fact that most other tools seem to work being attached to the power grid, would imply that the power grid is not broken.

When someone suggests looking at the power grid, and knowing that the power grid is complex, seems like a roundabout message.

Amen 🙏 Holmes...

Fact is, miter saws have been produced for the last 30+ years. They’ve been used to cut everything from concrete to steel.  Some people have waited for them to come up to speed before cutting while others have not. Some people have cut treated lumber while others have cut trim. They all just work, and their lifetime as measured in the construction industry is usually measured in years not months.

It’s just a saw people...for the life of me I can’t get my head around why fixing the Kapex issues is such a non-sequitur. Support the base of people that helped you gain name recognition in the first place. Without your base, you’d still be Protool.

[Naildrivingman]

Hey 👋 Naildrivingman,
Voltages on the east side of the Mississippi run 119-121.

Ok

[JNComplete]

It's time everyone demands instant action by festool on  these motors.  There's no denying it, the kapex motors have a good percentage of them being made poorly.  These last few posts have more than irratated me, and I don't even own a kapex, simply because of these issues. I tried a cut with a kapex and the motor is a weakling.  It's no wonder these things burn up.  It should be noted kapex saws are suitable only to cut balsa wood at a slow rate of cut.  What a joke this has all become.  Smh. Festool ruined their brand with this saw. It isn't happening, it happened. And I'm a guy always promoting how awesome festool tools are, but not the kapex.

I totally agree here. Mine has Just been returned, my local lumber yard dealt with it for me. Was fed up with festool, I was hoping they would wave the standard purchase the box and shipping label deal. No such luck. Haven’t gone to pick it up yet. My makita LS1018 cost me $375 on Amazon and it’s great. Lightweight- good DC and cuts Quality rivals Kaoex. My kapex has now been to their repair location three times - twice for the armature. and this time the warranty is expired. But they know it’s not a random or rare problem here. To say I’m upset is to sugar coat it. I’ll be paying over $300 to get it back and I will also be responsible for the shipping charges. I’m ready to form a group of people here and some attorneys and go for a class action lawsuit. Blatant neglect of addressing a known problem with a product and continuing to sell the same tool to the public is just cause. 

[Greg M]

Well I’ve sold the Kapex. Sad to see it go but not worth chancing the cost of having to fix. Now it’s time to find a replacement.