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Author Topic: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?  (Read 28258 times)

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Offline promark747

  • Posts: 473
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #90 on: February 27, 2018, 11:25 AM »

but one should not forget that Festool sold their tools in the US for far less than their prices in the rest of the world for years, probably to gain market share.
The prices are becoming more in line, esp. taking into account the cost of the USD in relation to EUR.


Agree with you on the first part, but the USD/EUR exchange rate has decreased substantially over the past several years, which in theory should have benefited people paying in US dollars.

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Offline egmiii

  • Posts: 150
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #91 on: February 27, 2018, 11:28 AM »
For me, as a hobbyist, these tools are a luxury, not a necessity. If they do the job to my satisfaction, at a price that doesn't insult my intelligence (more and more this is happening), then I will continue to purchase new tools.

I was going to purchase the 2018 Midi, but given that it does not support the new Bluetooth module, I have decided to hold off. I can't understand why this functionality was excluded given the redesign, and price increase! If you add the capability a year from now, current buyers will be upset. If you wait 3-7 years for the next redesign, the fence sitters will be upset.

I purchased the module for my CT36. It's a huge feature in my opinion. Why would you handicap half your dust collection lineup? Corporate decisions like this are giving legitimacy to this thread and upsetting brand ambassadors like myself.

Offline JSlovic

  • Posts: 105
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #92 on: February 27, 2018, 12:14 PM »
I have to agree with Eric on some aspects of the annual price increases.
Here's an example- Red Bins for a systainer 498038- they were $15/ a dozen in 2013 they're now $19. 5% annually for 5 years for no apparent reason.

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 779
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #93 on: February 27, 2018, 12:35 PM »
Festool has room to grow for sure. Market loss should be a good reason to start improvements. They can start with the guide rail attachments on the MFT/3!

Really the only Festool I wished I hadn't bought is my TS55 REQ, but instead purchased a Mafell saw and their rail system. Typically I run my routers against the backside of the rail so it wouldn't make a difference what brand the rails are for my Festool equipment. Actually my trusty old Festool OF2000 is a Mafell rebranded (Festool did come out the OF2200 which has a lot of improvements).

There are lots of tool brands to choose from today, especially when it comes to cordless tools. No one tool brand makes everything a person needs. Heck I have three types of batteries made by two manufacturers.

I saw Eric in another video using his new Bosch Colt and couldn't help but laugh. Why would anyone go seriously backwards? Not only does the Colt have an issue with the housing dropping, but it does an excellent job of spreading the cuttings everywhere, as shown in his video, and my picture below.

This was one of the last times I used my Bosch Colt, before replacing it with a OF1010. No comparison between the two is even possible.




Offline McNally Family

  • Posts: 615
  • Festool Atomic Phaser Particle Blaster (APPB Set)
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #94 on: February 27, 2018, 12:44 PM »
My theory on the annual price increase has much more to do with keeping dealers happy, than anything else.  It takes a good hunk of change to maintain a decent size Festool inventory, and the fact the inventory goes up in value each year, helps justify the investment the dealer has made.  The banks don't pay anywhere near what the ever increasing inventory does....
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26  |  RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | SYS-Rock BR10 | Cordless Sander RTSC 400 Set |  Cordless Delta Sander DTSC 400 Basic | Linear Sander LS 130 | PDC 18/4 set | CXS  2.6Ah Set | Installer Cleaning Set (2018 version) |  New style Festool hose D 27/32 x 3,5m AS/CT | Replacement Hose Garage | Remote control CT-F I/M-Set | MFH1000 work stool | Next purchase: TBD

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1878
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #95 on: February 27, 2018, 12:49 PM »
This was one of the last times I used my Bosch Colt, before replacing it with a OF1010. No comparison between the two is even possible.
Not a fair comparison. Try using OF1010 without dust collection. Bosch does sell DC attachment for Colt.

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 779
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #96 on: February 27, 2018, 12:58 PM »
Not a fair comparison. Try using OF1010 without dust collection. Bosch does sell DC attachment for Colt.
Wait until your Bosch Colt drops the bit on a $650 piece of Corian. F$*(#D This is a known issue.

I stand by no comparison. (And yes the housing was tight.)

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 540
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #97 on: February 27, 2018, 01:10 PM »
This was one of the last times I used my Bosch Colt, before replacing it with a OF1010. No comparison between the two is even possible.
Not a fair comparison. Try using OF1010 without dust collection. Bosch does sell DC attachment for Colt.

Not trying to go off topic, but couldn't resist............Dust extraction on my Bosch Colt with my Festool  CT36 is excellent and the 27mm hose fits perfectly.  Now, back to the matter at hand [smile]


Offline Master Carpenter

  • Posts: 110
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #98 on: February 27, 2018, 01:18 PM »
I don't know why people take the annual price increase as a negative. With used Festools often selling for 80% of new value, after a few years of ownership you can sell them for what you paid. Not too many products out there right now like that.

I do understand that Festool needs to maintain the highest level of perceived quality for this to continue to happen. Nobody pays BMW money for a KIA, new or used. I like that my collection increases in value every year.

Festool ABSOLUTELY needs to maintain perfect customer service and deal with any "tool issues" impeccably.

Offline RustE

  • Posts: 403
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #99 on: February 27, 2018, 01:53 PM »
I don't know why people take the annual price increase as a negative...


Because it is more than my salary goes up some years.  The prices of the tools that I do not own quickly get out of reach.

Very rarely do I sell tools, so resale value is not much of a consideration when buying.  The reason I bought some Festool items was because of features and overall quality.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1294
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #100 on: February 27, 2018, 02:59 PM »
I like that my collection increases in value every year.

Festool ABSOLUTELY needs to maintain perfect customer service and deal with any "tool issues" impeccably.

Me, too. That was why I got a bit disappointed when they did not jack up the price for the Kapex this year!

The resale value of a pricey item is always part, though not a very big one, of my purchase consideration, because it somehow reflects the value of the item. When I buy a new car, I like to know how the resale market looks at the different offers, not necessarily that I plan to resell my car any time soon. 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 03:02 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Paddyfin1

  • Posts: 92
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #101 on: March 03, 2018, 03:07 PM »
I won’t ditch my Festool gear, but I am looking at other manufacturers for future tools as I feel that Festool have become lazy in its R&D compared to the likes of metabo that seem to be gunning for everyone with some great products and an R&D department that is actually listening to its customers

Offline Carl Ommert

  • Posts: 4
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #102 on: May 29, 2018, 07:12 PM »
Sorry to hear about your issues. I sent my Rotex 125 in last week as the variable speed stopped working. The sander is not frequently used. I was informed I also needed bearings and everything was going to be $368.00 Canadian dollars plus tax. The conversation I had with my Festool dealer is too long to go into, but they will not repair the variable speed unless they repair everything. I am not at all happy about this. I have spent thousands of dollars on Festool and use it for work.
I could see if the sander had heavy use but it does not. They did get the repair price down to $308.00 plus tax but I am still not impressed with a high end tool failing after such light use.
I have Makita tools that take daily heavy use and never had an issue.

Carl

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1294
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #103 on: May 29, 2018, 07:31 PM »
So the repair cost would be about 50% of your purchase cost.

I would not spend that kind of money (in terms of %) on repairs. One of my SUVs (year 2003) still has about a market value of $7000Cdn left. I recently spent $550 Cdn (after a COSTCO cash rebate) on a new set of tires that are expected to outlast its remaining life of another 5 to 8 years. Would I spend $3,500 on it to fix any unexpected single repair? Fat chance. I would use that money towards a new SUV. Often, new SUV discounts of $2,000 to $3,000 are offered in promotions and that means I could save five to six thousand dollars in a new purchase.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 07:42 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 958
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #104 on: May 30, 2018, 07:38 AM »
So the repair cost would be about 50% of your purchase cost.

I would not spend that kind of money (in terms of %) on repairs. One of my SUVs (year 2003) still has about a market value of $7000Cdn left. I recently spent $550 Cdn (after a COSTCO cash rebate) on a new set of tires that are expected to outlast its remaining life of another 5 to 8 years. Would I spend $3,500 on it to fix any unexpected single repair? Fat chance. I would use that money towards a new SUV. Often, new SUV discounts of $2,000 to $3,000 are offered in promotions and that means I could save five to six thousand dollars in a new purchase.

That, and especially if you don't use the sander that often. Don't even replace it and save the money on a nice diner with the lady  [big grin]
Mario

Offline NYC

  • Posts: 4
Eternal Hose Garage problem. Looking for help.
« Reply #105 on: October 20, 2019, 01:25 PM »
Hi, I'm new to the forum & hope this is the correct section to post. Our shop has an older CT-Mini. Many have noted in the forum the tendency of the hose garage to shatter. Ours did when a screwdriver fell on it. Dozens of tiny bits.
 As folks have also noted here, it took quite a while for Festool to concur that the hose garage was made out of lousy plastic. BUT, they did not issue a RECALL. A recall would have been the standup way to address a product design mistake.
Before ordering the replacement part (499748 $86), I called Festool customer service to confirm that the install of the replacement part did not require any re-wiring by the consumer.
I was told, no prob, it's an easy screw off/on task. I had seen a post here saying the opposite & clearly the power cord came out of a hole in the upper casing being replaced.(?)
The Fest rep checked with tech people and came back with 'I stand corrected! Yes, there is re-wiring involved.' I asked if they had a diagram/instructions for the replacement. There was a long pause- while they lawyered up I think.
         Festool Customer Service changed from a friendly chat to the usual corporate brushoff.
The eventual email reply is too long to post (AND all their emails claim that it is not legal to re-post anything they say!), but basically Festool said they don't have instructions for the swap. When I responded 'Wha?'
The next email said, along with other dodges, Festool was not willing to join in someone's self-repair. Send it in for the replacement and 'professional' install.
So, with shipping, the new part, and official Festool repair, the bill would likely be more than 50% of the original purchase of the vac.
Does anyone have advice on how to install the replacement & re-wire? I promise not to hold you liable!

1.Festool designs a faulty part out of lousy plastic. 2.They ignore customers' complaints. 3.They finally make a replacement part that only their 'experts can install.
Yikes. I like their tools, but it's likely that their execs are too flaky to see that a recall was the right way to go. That's why execs are paid the big bucks, right? To throw more money into lawyers and exec salaries and leave the customer service folks holding the bag.

If anyone is still out there after this tirade, any instructions? Should I just build a wooden hose garage- anyone done that or some other work around?
THANKS!

Offline krudawg

  • Posts: 48
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #106 on: October 26, 2019, 11:13 PM »
I have "economically ditched" Festool as I am retired now and can't afford the price of admission.  The Festools I have I am completely satisfied with and wish I could fill my garage/shop with more but alas, I must look at other tool lines like recently I bought a Bosch Palm Trim Router which I bought after the Trim Router from Harbor Freight was such a flimsy tool.  Unless I hit the lottery, Bosch and DeWalt will be the lines I will look at and buy.  Festool will remain on my dream list though
Ted
MFT/3, DF 500, Hammer K3 Winner, TS55,  Sjoberg Elite 1500 Workbench, Fuji MiniMite4 Platinum,
Former Marine, Vietnam Vet

Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 400
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #107 on: October 27, 2019, 05:22 AM »
Why would you ditch all off it, if you already invested it? Thats loose - loose IMO. Just buy the new tools from another brand once you need them (or if repair turns out to expensive).

I do find it strange that there are so many problems with just single buyer. To state its all bad luck I would find a bit hard to swallow. Is there any change there is some issue with 110/220 voltage? Any refurbished tools?

// Off topic

It's also weird is that FOG is US oriented (even more since it German made) [blink], there is nothing in EU for this, so we come here. Why FT(HQ), why oh why??

I think FTHQ should claim a central website/forum for all owners and have it decently segmented into 110v and 220v. I'm getting the feeling some of the electrical problems are due to the fact tools are not designed for the 110 market (now it could also because 80% here is US based...  [huh])?

Maybe other tool companies also have similar problems, but due their price point there is less fuzz about it?

I would be very curious to see repair statistics based on the power source (110/220/battery)

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6165
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #108 on: October 27, 2019, 07:37 AM »
It's also weird is that FOG is US oriented (even more since it German made) [blink], there is nothing in EU for this, so we come here. Why FT(HQ), why oh why??

It is US orientated because a private person in the US took the initiative, and no one in the EU did. Simple as that.

To be honest, there is INCREDIBLY little initiative for anything in the EU. Just living the live as they were used too, not ever developping anything new.

Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 400
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #109 on: October 27, 2019, 08:12 AM »
It's also weird is that FOG is US oriented (even more since it German made) [blink], there is nothing in EU for this, so we come here. Why FT(HQ), why oh why??

It is US orientated because a private person in the US took the initiative, and no one in the EU did. Simple as that.

Ah. I thought FOG was funded by FT US?

Great initiative, FT HQ should have given some support instead to leave it to the locals. Missed change (to interact with your customer base) if you ask me!


Sent from my X using Tapatalk

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6165
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #110 on: October 27, 2019, 08:24 AM »
Great initiative, FT HQ should have given some support instead to leave it to the locals. Missed change (to interact with your customer base) if you ask me!

Support? ROFL, it went quite differently. I don't think the original FOG creator Matthew Schenker felt very supported.

As for interacting with their customers, there's hardly any company in the world that uses the internet the way it could be done. Despite all their marketing bla-bla-bla, there are very few companies who really want to go face to face with their customers.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6546
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #111 on: October 27, 2019, 11:03 AM »
As for interacting with their customers, there's hardly any company in the world that uses the internet the way it could be done. Despite all their marketing bla-bla-bla, there are very few companies who really want to go face to face with their customers.

I concur, when Danny Mack was the local Festool rep, he'd set up a demonstration every 8-12 weeks at the local Woodcraft store. It was entirely ad hoc and oriented around solving customer issues and answering questions. NOTHING was off limits. It could last 3 hours or go until the store closed, it depended entirely upon the customers' needs that were present. He sold a lot of tools with that approach.  [big grin]

Same thing with the local Milwaukee rep. He reveled in interfacing with customers and answering their questions. Even loaning out his personal Milwaukee tools to help customers out of a jamb.

Sadly, at some level corporate communications then broke down and the customer's questions became... well... the customer's problems.

Festool updates are never announced and neither are the items that Festool obsoletes. The only thing that's ever heralded is the announcement of new tools which Festool corporate hopes will lead to new revenue streams. That's a pretty one-dimensional approach.

I've found that Richard Hummel from Woodpeckers and Richard Wedler from Micro Fence are the best at interfacing with customers to actively solve their problems and answer their questions. I've talked with both on numerous occasions, they're terrific.

So maybe being a Dick isn't so bad after all?




Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
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  • Posts: 8998
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #112 on: October 27, 2019, 11:27 AM »
It's also weird is that FOG is US oriented (even more since it German made) [blink], there is nothing in EU for this, so we come here. Why FT(HQ), why oh why??

It is US orientated because a private person in the US took the initiative, and no one in the EU did. Simple as that.

Ah. I thought FOG was funded by FT US?

Great initiative, FT HQ should have given some support instead to leave it to the locals. Missed change (to interact with your customer base) if you ask me!


Sent from my X using Tapatalk


FOG is currently, and has been for many years, owned, funded, and supported by Festool USA. It had originally been started  and operated by an individual private person (Mathew Schenker).

Seth

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6165
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #113 on: October 27, 2019, 01:20 PM »
FOG is currently, and has been for many years, owned, funded, and supported by Festool USA. It had originally been started  and operated by an individual private person (Mathew Schenker).

Too bad that since Shane Holland left the official Festool presence is zero point zero. You could see Shane absolutely loved being here and as such he was a great interactive force with Festool's customers, and that did a lot of good for the forum.

Tyler did some good things too, but you could see for him it was a just a job, and not that big a part of his job. Now that Tyler has also left there's nobody anymore.  Official Festool presence is totally gone now. That is sad.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 852
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #114 on: October 27, 2019, 01:47 PM »

but one should not forget that Festool sold their tools in the US for far less than their prices in the rest of the world for years, probably to gain market share.
The prices are becoming more in line, esp. taking into account the cost of the USD in relation to EUR.


Agree with you on the first part, but the USD/EUR exchange rate has decreased substantially over the past several years, which in theory should have benefited people paying in US dollars.

The problem with this logic is that if you lower the prices or stop the increases (which are part of their business model) what do you do when the euro returns to $1.20USD or $1.50USD. Would customers be willing to accept a 20% or more increase to cover the currency fluctuation? I doubt it.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 958
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #115 on: October 27, 2019, 01:59 PM »
@ChuckM

Me, too. That was why I got a bit disappointed when they did not jack up the price for the Kapex this year!

You know what? the Kapex is in sale right now kapex  [eek]

I paid mine 2,000$ last year  [unsure]
Mario

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1294
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #116 on: October 27, 2019, 02:04 PM »
25%off [scared]

Those of us who paid the regular price for the EBs should receive an extension of our warranty or a new motor if they broke down within the next three years for our loyalty (despite the smoking concerns)... eh? [tongue]
« Last Edit: October 27, 2019, 03:31 PM by ChuckM »

Offline RustE

  • Posts: 403
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #117 on: October 27, 2019, 07:51 PM »
...
Official Festool presence is totally gone now.
...

That was kind of my thought with Tyler’s departure. At one point he mentioned the forum was a bit of a side task, not a regular item on anyone’s job description. Would be really nice to see a new employee or two from Festool chime in at some point.

Offline RJNeal

  • Posts: 404
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #118 on: October 27, 2019, 10:21 PM »
Once again Alex you hit the nail on the head. And you worded it correctly.
Rick.
Have you walked your saw today?

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #119 on: October 28, 2019, 03:14 AM »
It will be interesting to see if Festool UK nominate a FOG person now that Phil Beckley has moved on. His contributions were always very helpful.

Peter