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Author Topic: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!  (Read 4111 times)

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Offline thudchkr

  • Posts: 139
Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« on: June 14, 2019, 06:35 PM »
Not sure what's going on so thought I'd throw it out here and see if anyone has encountered this.

I have the following 18V cordless Festools, DWC 18-4500, TSC 55 and an HKC 55. I recently purchased two of the 6.2 Ah bluetooth batteries in order to use with the remote control on the CT 26 and I've had flawless performance using my TSC 55.  I keep one of the bluetooth batts with the TSC and the other with the HKC.

Today I went to use the HKC and when I hit the trigger, no operation.  Figure the battery might need to be charged, but it showed a full charge as being present.  I switched out the battery to a 5.2 non-bluetooth one and the saw worked fine that way.  Placing the BT batt back in the HKC, I tried again and noticed a red indicator at the front of the housing the battery mounts into, would light up when I triggered the tool. Still no operation of the HKC.  Tossed the battery onto the charger and it showed a full charge.  Placed this battery into the DWC and it operated fine.  Placed into the TSC and also operated normally.  Returned it to the HKC and only the red light. 

Tried my other BT batt, the one I've been keeping with my TSC 55, in the HKC and the HKC operates normally with that batt.

I just tried calling Festool service, but am outside their normal hours,  [sad].  Will probably give them a call here next week though. 

In the meantime, I thought I'd throw it out here and see if anyone has ever incurred a similar issue.  Also curious as to what others might surmise to be the problem.  Is it the HKC that has an issue? Or the BT battery that is causing the problem?  Seeing as how they both seem to work normally with every other item I've paired them with, it could be a tough determination to figure out.  I suppose that as long as I keep those two apart, I won't have a problem, but that's not quite the way we should have to do business. Both items are under warranty so I hope to get some type of resolution.

Let me know your thoughts if you got em, and especially let me know of any similar experiences and what, if anything, rectified the issue.

Thanks,

« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 10:31 PM by thudchkr »
Clint

TSC 55, TS 55, TS 75, HKC 55, DF 500, DF 700, Kapex 120, UG Ext. Wings, MFK 700, OF 1010, OF 1400, OF 2200, CT 22, CT 26, ETS 150/3, ETS EQ 150/5, PRO 5, DTS 400, RO 90, RO 150, CXS, DWC 18-4500, MFT Kapex, MFT 3 (2), MFT 800, MFT 1080

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Offline demographic

  • Posts: 501
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2019, 02:38 AM »
I have a HKC and a 6.2 Ah bluetooth battery.
Just on the very odd occasion it refuses to power it and I have sorted it by removing the battery and putting in back in.

Think it flashes up something different on the saws LEDs but as its only happened maybe three times I cant say I can remember exactly what it was.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 692
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2019, 04:30 AM »
Hi thudchkr       

LED red - flashing
General fault indication, e.g. incomplete contact, short circuit, defective battery pack, etc.

LED red - lit continuously
Battery temperature is outside the permitted range.

Maybe check the contacts on the machine, and the battery.

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1807
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2019, 04:43 AM »
@thudchkr I have exactly the same issue with a 5.2Ah Bluetooth battery.

Works absolutely fine in my TSC, but when used in the HKC, doesn't even switch it on. Other batteries work fine in the HKC.

@Phil Beckley said he hadn't heard of anything similar and that I should send both the HKC and the battery in for service. I haven't done that yet but will do so this week.

So that's at least two of us with an almost identical issue and on the same saw...

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 501
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2019, 11:15 AM »
Another thing I've noticed with the 6.2 Ah Bluetooth battery is that its tighter to fit it into the battery holder of my HKC.
Takes a bit more of a push to get it in. I wonder if its that that causes the problem?

Mind, its got to be said that the battery isn't just an easy thing to just slot in even on the 5.2 Ah.
Nothing like as easy as my tools by other manufacturers.

All that said, I still absolutely love that HKC and its used most days at work.


Offline thudchkr

  • Posts: 139
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2019, 11:58 AM »
Thanks to all for the info.  As I stated, I plan on contacting Festool next week and see what they have to say.  Nice to know, it's not just me.  (Sorry, however, that others are having the same issue though.)

Clint

TSC 55, TS 55, TS 75, HKC 55, DF 500, DF 700, Kapex 120, UG Ext. Wings, MFK 700, OF 1010, OF 1400, OF 2200, CT 22, CT 26, ETS 150/3, ETS EQ 150/5, PRO 5, DTS 400, RO 90, RO 150, CXS, DWC 18-4500, MFT Kapex, MFT 3 (2), MFT 800, MFT 1080

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1807
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2019, 03:51 AM »
I've checked all my batteries, and now have two 5.2Ah Bluetooth batteries that light green but don't power the HKC. For clarity, the batteries work fine in everything else. So I'm betting at this stage that it's a HKC problem but will send both away to Festool this week.

Offline thudchkr

  • Posts: 139
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2019, 07:43 AM »
Will probably try ding the same. Test each battery in each tool. Guess I should label them all first though. Could get confusing otherwise.  [eek]
Clint

TSC 55, TS 55, TS 75, HKC 55, DF 500, DF 700, Kapex 120, UG Ext. Wings, MFK 700, OF 1010, OF 1400, OF 2200, CT 22, CT 26, ETS 150/3, ETS EQ 150/5, PRO 5, DTS 400, RO 90, RO 150, CXS, DWC 18-4500, MFT Kapex, MFT 3 (2), MFT 800, MFT 1080

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1807
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2019, 08:15 AM »
I've initiated a warranty repair to be collected from me tomorrow. As soon as I hear anything back, I'll reply to this thread.

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 501
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2019, 03:36 PM »
Nice one. Be good to know what causes it.

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1807
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2019, 11:11 AM »
Just had a call from Festool Service.

It appears that there is a software issue in a particular revision of the electronics on the HKC that causes communication issues between the saw and the battery. In some cases, the saw incorrectly believes that the battery is drained and hence the saw does not start.

The electronics in my saw have been replaced for a new revision with a software update and the saw is on its way back to me.

So repair order created Monday, saw collected Tuesday, repaired and shipped back on Wednesday, should be back with me tomorrow (Thursday) - that's what I call great service!  [big grin]

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1664
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2019, 11:40 AM »
So it's only the BT battery in the HKC that will cause the issue to surface?  I don't have any BT batteries, but I will probably get some someday.  If my saw needs to be updated, I'd certainly rather know while it's still under warranty.
-Raj

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1807
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2019, 12:00 PM »
So it's only the BT battery in the HKC that will cause the issue to surface?

They didn't specifically say it was an issue when used with Bluetooth batteries, but the two batteries I had an issue with are Bluetooth ones. Other Bluetooth batteries worked fine in it though.

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 552
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2019, 12:21 PM »
Hmmm, just like RKA says i don't have any BT batteries yet, but I'd be well annoyed to find out my saw is a duffer (in this respect) after the warranty runs out! Is there anyway to tell if our saws have the affected electronics @Phil Beckley ?

Irrespective of the auto on Bluetooth vac, I assume all batteries now shipping are Bluetooth and so this will be an issue for affected saws sooner or later. (Edit: i now see that Gary said some of his BT batteries do work.... But still..)

Thanks for the discovery and follow up info @GarryMartin.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 12:25 PM by mrB »
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline thudchkr

  • Posts: 139
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2019, 09:30 PM »
Just went through this morning and tried each battery I have, in each tool they fit.

Seven separate batteries, all airstreams. Three are 5.2 AH, two are 6.2 AH, and the last two are 6.2 AH Bluetooth batts.

With the exception of the one battery I originally reported, each battery worked fine in my DWC, TSC, & HKC.

One of the Bluetooth batts works fine in the HKC while the other just gets the flashing red light. That battery, however, works fine in every other tool.

I called Festool today and they directed me to send in both the HKC and the battery the HKC isn’t happy with.

Here’s hoping I’ll get as good of service as Gary received. Thankfully, I don’t have any specific projects in the pipeline for the HKC.

Will post updates as they occur.
Clint

TSC 55, TS 55, TS 75, HKC 55, DF 500, DF 700, Kapex 120, UG Ext. Wings, MFK 700, OF 1010, OF 1400, OF 2200, CT 22, CT 26, ETS 150/3, ETS EQ 150/5, PRO 5, DTS 400, RO 90, RO 150, CXS, DWC 18-4500, MFT Kapex, MFT 3 (2), MFT 800, MFT 1080

Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 310
Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2019, 12:33 AM »
Stating the maybe obvious. Did you guys updated (and checked version/)  the firmware on the batteries?

I have updated my BT battery (don’t have a HKC) at least twice in the last months.


Sent from my X using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 01:13 AM by threesixright »

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 552
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2019, 02:49 AM »
@threesixright how do you update Festool BT batteries? Is it with one of the festool apps? Which one? Just curious, don't have any yet.
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 310
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2019, 05:17 AM »
@threesixright how do you update Festool BT batteries? Is it with one of the festool apps? Which one? Just curious, don't have any yet.

For me it works via the iOS "Festool Work" app. As a matter of fact a new update is available.

Offline thudchkr

  • Posts: 139
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2019, 05:51 AM »
That app is not available to me here in North America. Am guessing you’re located somewhere across the pond.

In response to your question, No, have never updated firmware on the batts. Don’t know if there is even a way for me to do it as an enduser.

Will do some exploration though in the meantime.

Thanks
Clint

TSC 55, TS 55, TS 75, HKC 55, DF 500, DF 700, Kapex 120, UG Ext. Wings, MFK 700, OF 1010, OF 1400, OF 2200, CT 22, CT 26, ETS 150/3, ETS EQ 150/5, PRO 5, DTS 400, RO 90, RO 150, CXS, DWC 18-4500, MFT Kapex, MFT 3 (2), MFT 800, MFT 1080

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1807
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2019, 05:58 AM »
Stating the maybe obvious. Did you guys updated (and checked version/)  the firmware on the batteries?

Festool Service specifically said it was the electronics and firmware on the HKC that was the issue. One of the batteries with an issue was Version 13 software, and the other Version 19 (the latest). The other Bluetooth battery that worked fine was also Version 19.

I sent the HKC back with the battery with Version 13 software, and it came back still with that version, so pretty convinced it's not a battery firmware issue.

Nonetheless, good reminder for people that the battery firmware is upgradeable via the Festool Work app.

Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 310
Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2019, 06:11 AM »
That app is not available to me here in North America. Am guessing you’re located somewhere across the pond.

Which platform you are looking on? I think it’s available on iOS App Store.

https://www.festoolusa.com/knowledge/festool-app

Page is empty  [blink]

I would suggest to contact their 'applications departments'
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 06:16 AM by threesixright »

Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 310
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2019, 06:33 AM »
Nonetheless, good reminder for people that the battery firmware is upgradeable via the Festool Work app.

@festool-app-development
It would be great if FT could use the BT battery as 'proxy' to update the firmware of the connected machine. Saves you the sending and waiting ;) Free idea!  [big grin]

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 815
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2019, 08:18 AM »
Stating the maybe obvious. Did you guys updated (and checked version/)  the firmware on the batteries?

I have updated my BT battery (don’t have a HKC) at least twice in the last months.


Sent from my X using Tapatalk

Exactly what I don't want to be involved with in my tools which I just want to work without futzing.

Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 310
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2019, 08:46 AM »
Stating the maybe obvious. Did you guys updated (and checked version/)  the firmware on the batteries?

I have updated my BT battery (don’t have a HKC) at least twice in the last months.


Sent from my X using Tapatalk

Exactly what I don't want to be involved with in my tools which I just want to work without futzing.
Maybe you rather send it in and wait 3-5 days before your tools are back?

Don't want to burst your bubble, these are software issues that come with the territory (not agreeing with that). Days that a hammer was just that, a hammer, are over. Nowadays a hammer send back to your boss how many nails you 'nailed' (LOL) in the last hour. I'd say stay away from anything with a power cord  ;)

Efficient power management, charging, etc. doesn't come easy and for sure not possible with analog circuitry.You need microprocessors and therefor you need software. Software = bugs. You win some, you loose some.

IMO for companies like FT this (bluetooth stuff) is whole new dimensions. Even companies like MS, Apple, etc. are not able to release bug free stuff, I don't have high hopes. Maybe FT outsourced this part, maybe they do it in-house, either way it will bring issues. Doing software development myself for > 25 years and still waiting to see a bug free, on time and on budget (serious) project [tongue].
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 08:51 AM by threesixright »

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 815
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2019, 02:44 PM »
Stating the maybe obvious. Did you guys updated (and checked version/)  the firmware on the batteries?

I have updated my BT battery (don’t have a HKC) at least twice in the last months.


Sent from my X using Tapatalk

Exactly what I don't want to be involved with in my tools which I just want to work without futzing.
Maybe you rather send it in and wait 3-5 days before your tools are back?

Don't want to burst your bubble, these are software issues that come with the territory (not agreeing with that). Days that a hammer was just that, a hammer, are over. Nowadays a hammer send back to your boss how many nails you 'nailed' (LOL) in the last hour. I'd say stay away from anything with a power cord  ;)

Efficient power management, charging, etc. doesn't come easy and for sure not possible with analog circuitry.You need microprocessors and therefor you need software. Software = bugs. You win some, you loose some.

IMO for companies like FT this (bluetooth stuff) is whole new dimensions. Even companies like MS, Apple, etc. are not able to release bug free stuff, I don't have high hopes. Maybe FT outsourced this part, maybe they do it in-house, either way it will bring issues. Doing software development myself for > 25 years and still waiting to see a bug free, on time and on budget (serious) project [tongue].

I'll clarify...the concept of updating firmware on a battery is absurd. It is fine for the hobbyist, but it's not acceptable for someone who earns a living with their tools. Granted you should have multiple extra batteries especially if on-site, but I'd be more than a little disappointed if it happened to me in the field. Comparing the ability of large companies to release bug-free stuff is not even remotely similar to BT on a battery.

Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 463
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2019, 08:39 PM »
I'll clarify...the concept of updating firmware on a battery is absurd. It is fine for the hobbyist, ...

As a hobbyist, I do not want to worry about updating firmware on a battery! I think the green drink is starting to wear off for me.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6260
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2019, 09:55 PM »
As a hobbyist, I do not want to worry about updating firmware on a battery! I think the green drink is starting to wear off for me.

Neither do I..however the gauntlet was thrown to the ground about 2 years ago and if you want the advantages of the latest technology you need to take the leap.

If you’re still craven to analog technology, I have 2 like-new, Milwaukee 1/4 sheet sanders in a Milwaukee steel case with bags and hole punches that I’ll be happy to move for $20 for everything. I may even find some extra sandpaper around that I’d throw in.  [smile]

Green drink...red drink...orange drink...yellow drink...blue drink...the ingredients in every one of them have been changed recently and the new flavors may not sit well with their long time imbibers.

Times change...

« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 10:00 PM by Cheese »

Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 310
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2019, 01:50 AM »
I'll clarify...the concept of updating firmware on a battery is absurd. It is fine for the hobbyist, but it's not acceptable for someone who earns a living with their tools. Granted you should have multiple extra batteries especially if on-site, but I'd be more than a little disappointed if it happened to me in the field. Comparing the ability of large companies to release bug-free stuff is not even remotely similar to BT on a battery.

With all due respect. I think you're missing my point. I'm not trying to say that the software is equally complex as that of i.e. a (smart)phone. I'm saying software brings bugs, a lot of them. The amount of effort that goes into testing is enormous. Could be easily ⅓ of the development costs itself. Big companies don't have this really under control, hence the slew of updates. For FT this is not different.  Yes, I understand that by first thought its crazy to update a freaking battery, but I'm guessing there is a lot some communication going on between the different tools and the battery. And that all needs to be tested. I don't know if FT has h/w revisions, but if so these also need to be tested. Bottom line, testing is expensive and firmware updates are a solution to update software after its released. Sooner or later bugs will slip through. Like it or not.

TBT the FT battery update via the app is not that bad. And if you don't like the BT functionality, go old school, buy a 'normal' battery (which IMO could also be causing issues, since li-ion also needs some special stuff for charging and what not)  ;) As @Cheese says, times are changing (not always for the better...).
« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 06:38 AM by threesixright »

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 692
Re: Bluetooth Battery doesn't work. In just one tool!
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2019, 04:51 AM »
As a tradesman, I am more than grateful for the changes, advances everything else that goes towards improving technology.
When I look back at what tools I had when starting out, to what I have now, and what’s available to me, I feel privileged.
There will always be glitches, and teething problems with any new tech, there always has been.

Tool technology progression is a great thing, regardless of the brand, anything that makes work easier and more efficient, gets my vote.