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Author Topic: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?  (Read 17402 times)

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Offline sawtooth

  • Posts: 3
Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« on: August 30, 2007, 01:55 AM »
Just got my TS55 home, plugged it in and ran it on speed six in my hands (off the rail and not touching any stock) to hear it's "normal" sound.

I guess for $440, I was expecting to hear angels singing, (like my Bosch jigsaw, only higher pitched and with wind noise from the blade) but I was surprised to hear a plasticy rattle undertone to the motor.  It wasn't a horrible sound, but made me poke around looking for something loose on the saw.  It reminded me of the $100 Freud biscuit joiner bearing clatter, only much, much more subtle.  The only thing loose was the rivving knife that had maybe 3mm of play left to right.  I didn't feel too much vibration, but it just didn't sound like a quality saw.

When I paid for the unit at the store, the systainer was latched but not sealed in any way.  Every power tool I've ever seen had some "factory seal" on the box.  Do Festool's?

So I'm wondering if anyone can tell me if these saws just sound kinda cheap.

It cut nicely, but I don't want a bearing going or something coming loose in the middle of a cut.

Thanks!


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Offline bruegf

  • Posts: 813
  • Michigan
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2007, 07:52 AM »
That's a normal sound, I believe from backlash in the gears as the motor adjusts itself to a constant speed as it compensates for the load.   Seems like that was mentioned in either the Festool manual or Rick's manual

Fred
Fred

Offline Timmy C

  • Posts: 462
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2007, 08:39 AM »
The TSs' are "smart saws".  As brue says it is trying to compensate for the load.  The old ATF saws used to have lights on them that would indicate to the user the status of the saw as it related to the "load" you were placing it under.  Green= "All Good Yellow= "Dude, your starting to annoy me, I can't find the right gearing to do what you are asking me to do." (or as Scotty would say, "I'm givin' it all she's got sirr, the dialithium crystals are fading" then finally Red= That's it, now I'm ticked! I'm shutting it down," and the saw would stop on ya.

The saws do sound a bit "clunky", but they are simply trying to find the right gear ratio to do what it is you are asking them to do.

Good Question, Thanks Dude,

Timmy C

Offline Forrest Anderson

  • Posts: 1072
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2007, 01:30 PM »
Just got my TS55 home, plugged it in and ran it on speed six in my hands (off the rail and not touching any stock) to hear it's "normal" sound.

I guess for $440, I was expecting to hear angels singing, (like my Bosch jigsaw, only higher pitched and with wind noise from the blade) but I was surprised to hear a plasticy rattle undertone to the motor.  It wasn't a horrible sound, but made me poke around looking for something loose on the saw...

It cut nicely, but I don't want a bearing going or something coming loose in the middle of a cut.

As Fred and Timmy have said, the rattly/growly noise is quite normal, and the subject is actually covered in the Frequently Asked Questions Database on the Festool USA website. Although this particular FAQ mentions the TS75, which is the larger version of the TS55, the same answer works for both:

Question:
I just purchased a TS75. It makes an odd sound like a bad bearing at start up. Others have likened it to a saw running on low voltage struggling to get going. Research indicates that this is normal. But I am curious as to what exactly this noise is. Is it part of the soft start?
   
Answer:
What you are hearing is the Multi Material Control electronics. This is probably the first intelligent saw you have used. The Festool saw is unique. There is an integrated circuit on board which regulates the speed by sending power to the motor in various sized bits to ensure constant speed under load for improved cut quality. If other manufacturers used similar pulse-width modulation speed control in their saws, customers would come to expect such strange noises.

The motor is constantly engaging and disengaging to keep the saw blade rotating at a constant speed. Most of the sound is being produced by backlash between the small pinion gear on the rotor and the larger gear that drives the blade. The saw blade behaves like a flywheel and has inertia that keeps it rotating while the small gear has slowed down. The opposite sides of the teeth tap against each other and the vibration conducts to the saw blade where it radiates like a speaker. Some of the noise is created by the field coil wires and plates which vibrate from the pulsing magnetism as they energize and de-energize. This noise is particularly noticeable in soft start as the saw ramps up.

So the strange sound you hear is actually quite normal. The best way to test the saw really is to make a cut. You will see that it runs smoothly under load no matter what you are cutting.
 


Forrest

Compiler of the Consolidated List of Festool Links - the place to go for Festool reviews, manuals, brochures and videos!

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2007, 02:20 PM »
Just got my TS55 home, plugged it in and ran it on speed six in my hands (off the rail and not touching any stock) to hear it's "normal" sound.

I guess for $440, I was expecting to hear angels singing, (like my Bosch jigsaw, only higher pitched and with wind noise from the blade) but I was surprised to hear a plasticy rattle undertone to the motor. ...

If you want to hear angel's singing in a power tool, try your 1400 router, or an ancient, original Milwaukee Sawzall.  Despite >4 decades of use/abuse including being dropped from the tops of farm silos, my Sawzall hums and whirs smoothly with no rattles or clunky sounds at all.

As others have said, the sounds you hear from your unloaded TS 55 are normal.  Mine does the same.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Timmy C

  • Posts: 462
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2007, 02:27 PM »
Just one more little tid bit here.  When running the TS 75; get your blade speed all the way up to the respective speed...then make your pass...conversely, do not trigger down until you are through the work piece.  The blade is just big enough so you will get some vibration as you wind up or wind down leaving kerf marks on your edges....

Timmy C

Offline SRSemenza

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  • Posts: 9996
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2007, 02:53 PM »
Hi,

        It is simply crying out for you to put the blade inot some wood. ;)   You can also hear or not hear the sound you are talking about if you vary  your cutting speed going through a cut. If you start a cut and push  nice and smooth through out it wil sound smooth.  If you start the cut and then push it faster you will hear the MMC adjusting (growling). It sounds bad but it is actually a really good feature!


Seth

Offline Bob Childress

  • Posts: 121
  • South Carolina, USA
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2007, 04:23 PM »
So I'm wondering if anyone can tell me if these saws just sound kinda cheap.

So, now you know it is an expensive rattle, not a cheap rattle. Makes all the difference.  ;D ;D
TS-55, RO-150, ETS-150/3, DX-93, LS-130, CT-22, OF-1000, DF-500Q, C-12

Offline Eli

  • Posts: 2503
  • A Yankee in Kangaroo Court
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2007, 05:02 PM »
Angels singing? I can't hear any music through my ear protection. I'm too busy trying to remember not to leave the razor blades in to listen to anything ::)
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline sawtooth

  • Posts: 3
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2007, 05:29 PM »
Thank you all! 

Offline ForumMFG

  • Posts: 1016
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2009, 09:16 PM »
You know, I just can't get over this noise issue.  It's driving me nuts.  I know it's normal but you think with all the money you invest, they would of taken care of this issue.  It sure does sound like it's falling apart and made cheaply.  I was also expecting angels singing from all I heard about this saw..  Running the saw on the slowest speed is the worst, it make the noise the whole cut.

Offline Bob Childress

  • Posts: 121
  • South Carolina, USA
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2009, 04:06 PM »
You know, I just can't get over this noise issue.  It's driving me nuts.  I know it's normal but you think with all the money you invest, they would of taken care of this issue.  It sure does sound like it's falling apart and made cheaply.  I was also expecting angels singing from all I heard about this saw..  Running the saw on the slowest speed is the worst, it make the noise the whole cut.

Why not? These other posters have been over it for two years. What difference does the sound make if it works well and is NOT "falling apart." Buy better ear protection.

Why should they take care of the sound, anyway? A bit like buying a Ferrari and then wishing they would put a Buick muffler on it to "quiet it down."  ;D ;D
TS-55, RO-150, ETS-150/3, DX-93, LS-130, CT-22, OF-1000, DF-500Q, C-12

Offline ForumMFG

  • Posts: 1016
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2009, 04:57 PM »
Because you buy a Ferrari expecting it to sound like it has 500 horses roaring.   You buy a Festool expecting it to preform and it does, it just doesn't sound right. 

Offline bruegf

  • Posts: 813
  • Michigan
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2009, 06:37 PM »
Why take care of something that's not a problem,  Festool has stated that its normal and in no way affects the use of the product, has adequately explained why the noise is made, and the saw doesn't make the noise under load.

How much would you want to pay to have the noise changed or eliminated.  I for one don't see the issue.

Fred
Fred

Offline justinmcf

  • Posts: 720
  • Queensland Builder
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2009, 07:28 PM »
i thought there was something wrong with my ts-55 when i first used it, i then found this forum and read the tech thingy, now the saw sounds great! the noise does not bother me at all, and i would not want festool to "fix it", these tools are very expensive as they are now, lets not give them any more excuses to make them more expensive.

Offline simon

  • Posts: 10
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2009, 09:25 PM »
Even under load mine make that rattle sound sometimes. And when its does, you can feel the saw vibrate a bit. Is this normal?

Offline Rob Z

  • Posts: 1080
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2009, 09:34 PM »
I haven't noticed anything untoward with my new 75...although with the vac running and high dB reduction ear protection....I might  not be able hear a problem anyway. ???

Offline Tom Bellemare

  • Inactive Member
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  • Posts: 5148
  • Festool demo's & personal service in Central Texas
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2009, 09:47 PM »
Simon:

You may just have more sensitive hearing than the rest of us. Both the TS 75 and TS 55 have a "distinctive" sound to me. They sort of sound like work is being done, and measured...

I really enjoy the sound, 'Sounds Like Quality.

In all seriousness, if you want to call me and play the sound over the phone, I'd be happy to tell you, or anyone, if it is normal.


Tom

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7392
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2009, 09:56 PM »
Even under load mine make that rattle sound sometimes. And when its does, you can feel the saw vibrate a bit. Is this normal?

Simon the sound will be heard under load too. The vibration I'm not sure what to say, is this a very small vibration? I've got a video of my TS55 running so new users can hear the sort of strange sound the TS saws make. Sound of the TS55 plunge cut saw. The sound you'll hear in the video is perfectly normal, this same sound is heard under load as well.

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7392
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2009, 09:59 PM »
Simon:

You may just have more sensitive hearing than the rest of us. Both the TS 75 and TS 55 have a "distinctive" sound to me. They sort of sound like work is being done, and measured...

I really enjoy the sound, 'Sounds Like Quality.

In all seriousness, if you want to call me and play the sound over the phone, I'd be happy to tell you, or anyone, if it is normal.


Tom

BTW, Tom is in the US so a phone call may be out of the question if you're outside of N. America.

We've got to get locations as a mandatory piece of info for registration and have it show up in the profile at a minimum.

Offline Tom Bellemare

  • Inactive Member
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  • Festool demo's & personal service in Central Texas
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2009, 10:31 PM »
That's a very good point, Brice.

I can call you on land lines in Italy, France, Spain, UK, and Ireland, plus anywhere in the U.S., Canada, or Puerto Rico and we can discuss things at length. If you prefer to use your mobile, it's different...


Tom

Offline Jimhart

  • Posts: 218
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2009, 11:56 PM »
Skype. It's crystal clear and it's free. Could even include 2-way video. All free, globally.

Offline Rick Christopherson

  • Retailer
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  • Posts: 1646
    • http://www.rts-engineering.com/
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2009, 01:41 AM »
I didn't read the whole thread, but the sound is caused by the backlash in the gearbox due to the Pulse-Width-Modulation electronics of the variable speed drive.

Although most people have never heard this before because only Festool had previously developed a variable-speed circular saw, now that DeWalt and Makita have launched similar saws, it should be noted that their saws also exhibit the same sound.

I have all 3 saws (plus the TS75 too), and they all exhibit the same sound at comparable levels.

It is normal.

Offline simon

  • Posts: 10
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2009, 09:51 PM »
Guys thanks for the response. The vibration is very small and not constant, and only when you hear the rattle sound. I,ve listened to the sound of the clip, the sound at the beginning of the clip (at 3 sec) is what is here at certain times during a cut.

Offline jvsteenb

  • Posts: 363
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2009, 02:48 PM »
For me it's a tell-tale sound...

I started my career as an electronics engineer, so the sound of a PWM controlled brush-motor is no bother to me. When applied to my TS55, it's indeed an "expensive" rattle sound. I trust Festool has engineered the gearteeth to take the impulse load easily, so I don't really care.

But whenever the same sound occurs under load, I'm in trouble. I mean the rattling sound, there's almost always a slight "irregularity" in the sound, due to motor-control when not under absolute maximum load. If I hear even a hint of the "rattle" , it almost always means that my cut will be good.
That's reason enough for some strong language, for I've got used to the cuts being perfect.....

In my case it usually means that I have to reset my LA.... I'm from Holland, and I have purchased my TS55 as part of a CMS-TS55 set, and I purchased the LA as well, - just a rip fence, basically. It's an OK piece of kit, but the compact size of the CMS together with the ability to clamp the fence on both sides of the table AND the extra adjustment at the front end mean that there's room for some error - trust me to jump in. The adjustability of the LA fence is a great feature, but the mechanism neccisarily introduces some play and thus room for ( user) error.

My TS55  has been adjusted to have an ever-so-slightly toe-in when used on the guide-rail, but for what I do the spent part is on the other side when used in the CMS and if I am a bit sloppy, there's a chance to mis-set the LA rip-fence on my CMS so that the resulting cut is made with a slight toe-out....
Whenever that's the case , I sometimes experience the "rattle" sound, and the resulting cut won't be glue-ready, at least not in my book. Sawmarks are a no-go.

The sound may also tell me that I forgot to pay attention to the correct saw-depth. When the sawblade protrudes for more then the depth of a complete tooth the saw is kind enough to politely inform me with a slight variation in sound.

No it doesn't exactly sound nice. Cuts nice though....
 
So I choose to treat what some may consider to be a bug as a feature. I've made a LOT of panels glueing up discarded oak floarboards, ripping of the tongue-and-groove parts. When the first board passes and the sound is OK, I happily feed the next 30-or-so, knowing they will all be OK.

In an ideal world, I wouldn't have to worry about this. But then again a  CMS is a nice kit, but it's more like a contractor's saw than a tablesaw, and the LA ( due to the size and mechanical constraints ) is not a Biesemeyer fence. And I can also fit My OF1010 in it, or use the TS55 as-is, on a rail or on my MFT-3, and the OF1010 also fits the rail, and... and... and....


Regards,

Job
TS55, OF1010, RO150, RTS400, PS300, T15+3, CTL22E, CMS-TS55+Basis5A (OF1010), MFT/3, MFS400/700, FS800-1080-1400-1900, Centrotec-SYS 09, DF 500 full set, some accessories :)

Offline Rob-GB

  • Posts: 1101
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2009, 09:57 AM »
As a new FS55 owner and have been using it hard all week, it's gotta pay its way [wink] I thought the rattle a bit odd.
However, the saw does a great job and the later points posted here have put my niggles to rest. The saw also runs far more
quietly than any other brand I have owned or used.
I guess I have started down the 'slope' [big grin] already trying to convince herself that I need the parallel guides
for it and that my old cordless is on its way out ;D T15+3 here I come [eek]
Great site loads of great info thanks, Rob

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7392
Re: Do TS55s make a cheap rattle sound?
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2009, 10:21 AM »

I guess I have started down the 'slope' [big grin] already trying to convince herself that I need the parallel guides
for it and that my old cordless is on its way out ;D T15+3 here I come [eek]
Great site loads of great info thanks, Rob

In that case, Parallel Guide review and T15+3 review. I'm working on finishing my T15 review now, there will be more to see soon. Now that should help convince you.  ;D