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Author Topic: Domino calibration scale  (Read 3737 times)

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Offline YOGO100

  • Posts: 20
Domino calibration scale
« on: May 02, 2018, 06:30 PM »
Hi everybody,

I have owned the domino 500 for a couple of years, but have been experiencing considerable trouble in calibrating the the plastic cursor plate (the tool is out of warranty). The problem that I am having is that the two provided screws do not tighten enough for the plastic cursor plate to stay in place. I have sent the machine in for service previously for this problem, and it came back without any improvement (but I was charged for some kind of work, the nature of which wasn’t really revealed). When I contacted festool service about the issue this week, I was told that they had never encountered this problem, and suggested to put some loctite on the screws. My local dealer today suggested that I simply buy a bit longer M3 screws and try that. That doesn’t seem to have do the trick either. I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this, but more importantly I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions how to deal with this, as I currently have no reliable means of calibrating the tool. Thanks!

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Offline alice

  • Posts: 109
Re: Domino calibration scale
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2018, 08:54 PM »
I had one of the curser screws strip too . I had too grind down one side of curser to make pieces line up

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 184
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: Domino calibration scale
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2018, 09:42 PM »
Sorry to hear about your problems -
And I hate to continue “beating the same drum” - But... I will.
The calibration/alignment of the the plastic cursor plate on Dominos -
Has been a KNOWN PROBLEM by Festool for 10+ years -
Detailed repeatedly in the FOG. It’s a SYSTEMIC problem:
Dominos SOLD - That weren’t - Couldn’t be - Calibrated/aligned...
Then sent in to Festool Service - And returned to the customer without being fixed.

See my own experience - Detailed on the FOG (and Amazon).
“Festool Quality Assurance: Disappointing > Disgusted > Domino XL DF700EQ”
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/festool-service-disappointed-dissatisfied-disgusted-gt-domino-xl-df700eq/
Finally resolved by Festool Service calibrating/aligning/sending me a NEW Domino 700.

I hope you get resolution. I truly do.
Stick with it. Tyler ((US) and Phil (UK) will be great allies in helping you.
But... The answer isn’t fixing the “same problem” over and over again - Tool by tool.
It’s fixing the problem at the source: Festool’s Quality Assurance.


« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 09:58 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26, CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides & Extensions, Plunge Routers: OF1400 EQ & OF1010, Sanders: RO125 FEQ Rotex, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail, DX93E Detail, Drills: C12 Cordless, CXS Cordless Compact Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Dominos: XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, DF 500 Tenon Joiner, VAC SYS: System Set, SE 2, Accessory Set | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2742
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Domino calibration scale
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2018, 05:26 AM »


Do the screws hold the cursor plate for a while after being tightened and then loosen? Or, does the cursor plate move right after the screws are tightened?

If the first, then Loctite seems like a good option.

If the second, the screws may be too long and bottoming out or just be the wrong screws. In this case, I'd try placing a star washer under the head of each screw and see if that fixes the problem.
Birdhunter

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
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  • Posts: 12082
  • Magnum - My new little boy
Re: Domino calibration scale
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2018, 08:33 AM »
Sorry to hear about your problems -
And I hate to continue “beating the same drum” - But... I will.
The calibration/alignment of the the plastic cursor plate on Dominos -
Has been a KNOWN PROBLEM by Festool for 10+ years -
Detailed repeatedly in the FOG. It’s a SYSTEMIC problem:
Dominos SOLD - That weren’t - Couldn’t be - Calibrated/aligned...
Then sent in to Festool Service - And returned to the customer without being fixed.

See my own experience - Detailed on the FOG (and Amazon).
“Festool Quality Assurance: Disappointing > Disgusted > Domino XL DF700EQ”
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/festool-service-disappointed-dissatisfied-disgusted-gt-domino-xl-df700eq/
Finally resolved by Festool Service calibrating/aligning/sending me a NEW Domino 700.

I hope you get resolution. I truly do.
Stick with it. Tyler ((US) and Phil (UK) will be great allies in helping you.
But... The answer isn’t fixing the “same problem” over and over again - Tool by tool.
It’s fixing the problem at the source: Festool’s Quality Assurance.

There is always a possibility of issues with anything purchased whether it be a Mercedes, a Festool, a Ford Transit, a head of romaine lettuce, or a pack of cheap led tea candles from Walmart.  As the total quantity of items sold increases there will be a larger total number of issues.  The percentage rate of complaints may remain the same but more items produced X same percentage = larger number of complaints heard.

By the sounds of this, if the screws thread into the holes but then stop before securing the plastic in place it seems that the existing screws might be a tad long as suggested by @Birdhunter as a possibility in his post.

Peter

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 184
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: Domino calibration scale
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2018, 09:53 AM »
Peter:
I appreciate what you and Seth do each day - “Moderating” (good word) the issues brought forward on the FOG. It’s also assumed that your roll is to put the best thoughts forward regarding the Festool brand.
Having worked for decades for a Fortune 100 company in the areas of Consumer Product Development and Marketing Research (and taught both subjects at the post-graduate level) - I can also agree - Somewhat - With your premise of “sales expansion” leading to the number of increased instances of product problems, as a percentage.
But I can absolutely assure you that there’s a categorical difference between a Mercedes and a head of lettuce.
The price of a high priced, premium product, come with substantial expectations that the product is as advertised. I didn’t have to adjust the carburetor or brakes when I drove my ‘Benz off the dealer’s lot. Several years ago, GM and Chrysler started selling cars with serious QA issues - And Honda and Toyota took major amounts of business from them before they looked at their QA - And fixed the problems.
Festool has been getting feedback from customers about the Domino alignment issues for over a decade. The Kapex motor burnout issues continue - Unabated.
Both are QUALITY ASSURANCE issues. Both fixable.
Festool finally listened to their customers’ feedback and fixed the fragile (easily broken) hose housing issues on the Dust Extractors. They improved the product.
So... It can be done.
On the other hand... There is NO EXCUSE for tools being returned to customers - Even once - Without being perfect (“in spec” and operable) - From Festool Service.
Tyler and Phil should never have to be involved.
Please understand that, at heart, I love my Festool tools.
I do not want to see the Festool brand’s demise.
But... BRAND LOYALTY is historically fickle - No matter the brand.
When you pay for a “Mercedes” - You expect a “Mercedes”... And the Service -
That comes with the price of both.
Anything less - And customers will look for alternatives with better price/values.
And they eventually find ‘em.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 10:49 AM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26, CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides & Extensions, Plunge Routers: OF1400 EQ & OF1010, Sanders: RO125 FEQ Rotex, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail, DX93E Detail, Drills: C12 Cordless, CXS Cordless Compact Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Dominos: XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, DF 500 Tenon Joiner, VAC SYS: System Set, SE 2, Accessory Set | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline Peter Halle

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  • Posts: 12082
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Re: Domino calibration scale
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2018, 10:08 AM »
Joe,  you wrote in part:  "It’s also your roll to put te best thoughts forward forward Festool brand."

Neither Seth nor I have ever been instructed nor asked to do just what you wrote.  I have certainly posted here about issues I thought Festool has and because of perhaps what could be considered better access to others within the company have made my voice and opinion known on topics including customer service. 

I have seen the service department in Lebanon and the actual specially made alignment jig / device for the Domino 500 and was explained at the time how it worked and the mathematical calculations that went along with adjustments to the tool.

Peter


Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1231
Re: Domino calibration scale
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2018, 10:47 AM »
Scary, this is the first I've heard of this problem.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5919
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Domino calibration scale
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2018, 11:50 AM »
To the OP:

Have you called Festool Service?  I cant speak for them but If this is a known/common issue Im sure they have a service notice out on it and will take care of it.

If its not a known issue , Im sure they will work with you to correct the issue. I  can honestly say Ive contacted on Festool Service Both festool USA and Festool UK and have been taken care of.

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1231
Re: Domino calibration scale
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2018, 12:26 PM »
To the OP:

Have you called Festool Service?  I cant speak for them but If this is a known/common issue Im sure they have a service notice out on it and will take care of it.

If its not a known issue , Im sure they will work with you to correct the issue. I  can honestly say Ive contacted on Festool Service Both festool USA and Festool UK and have been taken care of.

Did you read the OP? Said he contacted Festool service center and the reseller.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 184
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: Domino calibration scale
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2018, 04:18 PM »
Search: “Domino calibration” - “Domino alignment” - “Domino sight gauge”.
A critical functional element in being able use the Domino tool -
This sight gauge calibration/alignment problem goes back for years... Unresolved.
Paul Marcel/Half Inch Shy even did a YouTube video on how to align/calibrate the Domino sight gauge.
For some the sight gauge couldn’t be aligned, at all - As their tool didn’t have sufficient left/right adjustable tolerance.
Admittedly, this isn’t a problem for the majority. I bought a DF500 (which I loyally and faithfully bought while my DF700XL was in for service) - And it was perfect. But for those this is a problem for - It’s a “bought $1,000-$1,400 paper weight” issue.

And YES - I did call - And spoke extensively to Festool Service - Multiple times.
I’m very glad to hear that your experience was good. Mine wasn’t the same.
My first call was received with apathy - With no interest in even what the problem was.
It was: “Fill out the form. Send in the tool.” Exactly 8 words total. Period.
Tyler Carter had to get involved - And then Festool Service’s Supervisor.
Nonetheless... My DF700XL came back unfixed (and due to extremely poor packaging, with a broken part). Click on the link I listed above to see the details.
That’s when I started extensively researching the history of this issue. And writing.
Tyler C got involved again (quickly) - And subsequently Festool HQ (Germany).
Eventually they offered me a NEW tool - Which was gratefully accepted with the caveat that they check all the alignments on the tool BEFORE sending it to me.
That’s how I know that they have extraordinary equipment to align tools to exacting tolerances. It CAN be done. It WAS done.
Which begets that question: Why do tools have to be sent back to Festool Service -
When the problem isn’t fixed - Sometimes more than once?
Could it be a systemic QUALITY ASSURANCE issue?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 06:13 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26, CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides & Extensions, Plunge Routers: OF1400 EQ & OF1010, Sanders: RO125 FEQ Rotex, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail, DX93E Detail, Drills: C12 Cordless, CXS Cordless Compact Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Dominos: XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, DF 500 Tenon Joiner, VAC SYS: System Set, SE 2, Accessory Set | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1315
Re: Domino calibration scale
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2018, 06:02 PM »

Which begets that question: Why do tools have to be sent back to Festool Service -
When the problem isn’t fixed - Sometimes more than once?
Could it be QUALITY ASSURANCE?
Sounds like it.

But if you ask me, it looks like just being the symptom of a more serious underlying, unresolved problem that exists in the system, somewhere.

Offline YOGO100

  • Posts: 20
Re: Domino calibration scale
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2018, 07:21 PM »
Hi all,

It was certainly not my intent to start a discussion about Festool's overall customer service, or quality assurance. I would say that sending the machine in did not do any good, as it came back with no resolution and no explanation (but I was charged for something, although it wasn't clear what it was). I was a little bit taken aback by the response from Festool service that they had "never heard of this problem before" and not really offering a fix (I don't think loctite is a real solution in this case). It felt like the person on the other end of the line thought that this was my problem, and not his problem. This is a first for me, as my interactions with Festool service before have been positive (both the process and the outcome). At any rate, I'm not sure this is a fundamental design flaw. Some adjustability in the cursor does not seem to be a bad idea in my mind. The fact that the screws weren't holding was a problem, however. In the end, longer screws didn't work (the fix that the dealer suggested), but I got a new set of M3x6 screws, and that seems to have done the trick for now. This begs the question, however, why the original screws did not hold as they came with the machine. It also begs the question what festool service did with the machine when they had it last time, given the fact that the screws didn't hold before I sent it in, nor after...

Thanks for the responses all,

 

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 184
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: Domino calibration scale
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2018, 08:07 PM »
ChuckM:
I agree with your assessment.
I came to that conclusion when - After researching the Domino alignment issue -
I then started reading about and researching the Kapex motor/armature problems.
$1,500 saws burning out, being returned - Or being sent in for repair.
Seemingly... It appears to be the same paradigm.
As an aside - I REALLY wanted to buy a Kapex. Check my “signature block”. I buy quality tools. Money isn’t the issue. But... I’ll stick with my Bosch 5412L.

Early on... Festool was a premium niche tool maker - Marketed in the U.S. to woodworkers and furniture makers (as compared to mass marketed brands like Dewalt/Rigid sold in the blue/yellow big box stores). Festool was sold at specialty woodworkers’ stores - Like Woodcraft and Rockler’s.
Rockler’s has discontinued the brand.
Ardent Festool advocates like YouTubers Mark Spagnuolo/The Wood Whisper and Eric/eRock/ThePoplarShop - Have sadly also abandoned the brand.
All of my “early” Festool tool purchases never had a problem - Never needed fixing - And still don’t. The last several years, it seems Festool tools appear - At least anecdotally on the FOG, Amazon, and elsewhere - To be having more and more QUALITY and SERVICE issues.
Also, during the last several years, Festool has more aggressively been marketing to the construction industry - Expanding their marketing model.
Is there a connection? Is this a shift in their BUSINESS MODEL?
Years ago, Black & Decker hand tools were a “standard” in the tool industry.
Then they changed their BUSINESS MODEL - Wanting to expand their customer base into the Homeowner DIY sector. They degraded their product quality - Putting plastic parts in their tools. Customer Service degraded, as well.
Dewalt/Bosch/Milwaukee took B&D’s Share of Market in the mid-priced “quality” segment of the hand tool market.
But... Today - B&D’s selling more drills and saws than ever - To Homeowners -
At Walmart. (They’re also selling toasters and vacuums.)
It makes one wonder if the Domino/Kapex/Carvex “come lately” issues - Are the “canary in the coal mine” - The harbinger of a slow, evolving shift in Festool’s premium segment strategy - To expand the brand - And increase the “bottom line”.
Not wrong. But if so... Just sad for us woodworkers and craftsmen.
Festool CAN fix the seemingly increasing number of tool and customer service issues.
The question is - Do they want to?

« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 08:42 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26, CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides & Extensions, Plunge Routers: OF1400 EQ & OF1010, Sanders: RO125 FEQ Rotex, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail, DX93E Detail, Drills: C12 Cordless, CXS Cordless Compact Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Dominos: XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, DF 500 Tenon Joiner, VAC SYS: System Set, SE 2, Accessory Set | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2742
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Domino calibration scale
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2018, 08:48 PM »
To the OP.... I’m glad your problem was resolved. It’s weird that the original screes didn’t hold the plastic part in place.
Birdhunter