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Author Topic: OF 1010 play  (Read 18021 times)

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Offline Ostap

  • Posts: 26
OF 1010 play
« on: March 26, 2015, 04:57 PM »
I have OF 1010 and out of the box it has some small slack or play between router and the vertical plunge rods.
The larger rod closer to handle feels solid, but the smaller rod that is next to the rotary knob has the play.
So basically if I look at router from the top and hold its table, I can slightly rotate it around the larger rod. If I tighten the knob, there is no play whatsoever and everything feels excellent.
But if the knob is not tightened the play is there and I feel that I don't have full control over the device.

Now my question is that is it normal or is it just my OF? Is there a way to tighten up the cylinder around the rods?
Thanks.

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Offline mwildt

  • Posts: 425
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2015, 07:39 PM »
Welcome to the FOG.

No idea, but I would recommend you to call your local Festool dealer for advice.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 07:42 PM by mwildt »

Offline narrowboatboy

  • Posts: 60
    • DJ property maintenance
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2015, 12:04 PM »
no not normal
Sarcasm: the ability to insult idiots without them realizing it

Offline Ostap

  • Posts: 26
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2015, 06:16 AM »
Had a chance to get hands on another OF 1010, brand new in shop. The same slack :( So not only my tool.
Also had a chance to compare it with OF 1400 which has absolutely no play whatsoever on the rods.
Sadly I am few days over 30 days return period with the OF 1010, otherwise I would consider replacing it with OF 1400.

May be it is just a specific failed batch of OF1010 (?), but honestly, I didn't expect to find such quality issue with premium brand (and price).


Offline Mr Heavy

  • Posts: 100
  • Clamps? Who needs clamps?
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2015, 12:58 AM »
I've not noticed any excessive play in MY 1010. Sounds like you've got a warranty issue.

I'm curious though - assuming you're using a guide rail or template or xyz AND making a plunge cut - how much deviation from the expected position are you getting at the bit? What I mean is - does the play translate to the cut or is it merely a tactile issue with no discernible practical effect on the work?

I do find the plunge can get a little stictiony on this model unless the rods are kept scrupulously clean and slightly lubed (ptfe) but I wouldn't expect it straight out of the box.
Good luck!
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Offline Ostap

  • Posts: 26
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2015, 01:57 AM »
The video showing the play:

The router just returned from 2-week service stating that such play is acceptable by Festool standards and does not affect tool precision a bit. I must say I have a different opinion on the second claim as I can visually see the bit movement compared to the center hole of the shoe.

If you need a precision tool I recommend to go with OF 1400 that seems to be free of such issue. At least for now.

Offline moody

  • Posts: 46
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2015, 09:24 AM »
That is not OK! Have you tried a different dealer, or contacted Festool directly? I have a 1010 and there is nowhere near the same amount of play on mine, nor on any of the other maybe 5 or 6 1010 I have used.

Offline Ostap

  • Posts: 26
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2015, 07:54 AM »
Well, I showed the video to seller and Festool Baltics headquarters in Lithuania. The feedback was that this does not look normal, so my OF was sent to Kaunas, LT. After 2 weeks I received it back with note over email (quoting):
---
Sorry for quite long process but the case was not standard. It took some time to get answer from German colleagues.
In one word your router was sent back to you today. And I informing you that there was and is all OK with tool. Guiding rod when locking handle is unscrewed have small free space and this is normal. Would be not normal if there be some free space when locking screw is locked. Anyway, this free space is absolutely not influencing working result.
---
So the slack shown in the video is in within the Festool acceptance level.
I my opinion, the ring 436301 and bushing 210031 are just unneededly oversized. Is it intentional or batch accident -- I don't know. As I mentioned earlier, I tested another brand new OF1010 in the shop and it had the same slack.

Offline fshanno

  • Posts: 1011
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2015, 12:52 AM »
I don't see how your 1010 could be used with the LR32.  With it wiggling like that how could you set it up with the centering mandrel?

It would just be a guessing game. 
The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

Offline moody

  • Posts: 46
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2015, 02:42 AM »
The answer from Festool Lithuania seem to be based upon the presumption that it will only be used with the router in locked position, which is not my image of a plunge router, nor how I use it.

Offline carlb40

  • Posts: 370
  • Site carpenter
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2015, 04:39 PM »
Mine will arrive tomorrow, so i will check and report back to you.  The play in yours does seem excessive.  [sad]
Carl

Never never go, never never know [smile]

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Offline fshanno

  • Posts: 1011
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2015, 08:54 PM »
The answer from Festool Lithuania seem to be based upon the presumption that it will only be used with the router in locked position, which is not my image of a plunge router, nor how I use it.

That doesn't make sense.  Can they really be saying that?  The LR32 system is designed for the 1010 and the plunge is never locked when using the LR32.  The LR32 is listed as an accessory for the 1010.

How are you going to get a proper 5mm system hole with the router wobbling around as we see in that video?  If that hole is not right then shelf pins will not be snug.  I don't know, it might not hold system screws properly.
The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

Offline Ostap

  • Posts: 26
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2015, 01:34 AM »
Sadly smth bad happened with my old caliper, so I can't measure holes currently, but I will when I will get new one.

What I learned meanwhile is that if I loose the knob only very little, like 10-15 deg, the router can be moved up and down without significant wobbling. The spring has harder times to push it back up though.

Offline Mike B

  • Posts: 73
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2015, 06:35 AM »
I'm astonished that any play at all is acceptable for a plunge router. I had assumed the bushing on the plunge rods would be as tight/smooth as the ones on the Domino's.

Offline Phil Beckley

  • Posts: 1518
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2015, 06:56 AM »
I have OF 1010 and out of the box it has some small slack or play between router and the vertical plunge rods.
The larger rod closer to handle feels solid, but the smaller rod that is next to the rotary knob has the play.
So basically if I look at router from the top and hold its table, I can slightly rotate it around the larger rod. If I tighten the knob, there is no play whatsoever and everything feels excellent.
But if the knob is not tightened the play is there and I feel that I don't have full control over the device.

Now my question is that is it normal or is it just my OF? Is there a way to tighten up the cylinder around the rods?
Thanks.

Hi Ostap
Hello from the U.K.
 I have asked a colleague in Lithuania to contact you or you can PM me a email address and i will put you intouch with him.
rg
Phil

Offline Ostap

  • Posts: 26
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2015, 08:07 AM »
Sent PM.

Offline moody

  • Posts: 46
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2015, 09:23 AM »
I'm astonished that any play at all is acceptable for a plunge router. I had assumed the bushing on the plunge rods would be as tight/smooth as the ones on the Domino's.
Totally agree.

Offline Phil Beckley

  • Posts: 1518
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2015, 11:33 AM »
Sent PM.

Hi
 I have passed the P.M over to my colleague in Lithuania so he should be in touch with you.
rg
Phil

Offline Locks14

  • Posts: 291
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2015, 11:50 AM »
I think it's great that Phil has stepped in, in order to help resolve things.

However, the fact that he needed to and the local Festool support service are either a) that incompetent in understanding acceptable tolerances or b) that unconcerned with supporting their customers properly, is utterly disgraceful.

What if the OP wasn't aware of this forum to kick up a stink? He would now be stuck with what would at best be a €400 door stop.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 11:53 AM by Locks14 »

Offline carlb40

  • Posts: 370
  • Site carpenter
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2015, 12:53 PM »
Hopefully with Phil's help this will get sorted.  [smile]


I have mine in front of me and there is very minor play with it unlocked. Locked there is no play what so ever.  [smile]
Carl

Never never go, never never know [smile]

Flickr

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 4357
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2015, 04:09 AM »
Sent PM.

Hi
 I have passed the P.M over to my colleague in Lithuania so he should be in touch with you.
rg
Phil
Hi Phil

Ostap has now PM'd me via YouTube and I have referred him back to his parent Festool HQ - presumably that is Lithuania. He does not appear to have been contacted yet.

I have told the OP to talk to Festool who will investigate this on his behalf.

Peter

Offline Ostap

  • Posts: 26
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2015, 08:35 AM »
Just for update.
Phil's colleague did not contact me, but I was in contact with Festool Baltics myself.
Long story short, they stand with the decision that such play is normal for OF 1010.
I think this road has reached its end, I'm sure they did the best they could under the circumstances.

Looking last night the Peters video about inlays I had trouble imagining doing similar thing with my OF, so I asked for his advise. Of course I should have guessed he is FOG member and actually familiar with the case :)
I'm currently trying to establish connection with Festool DE and try to get to some reasonable solution.

Will LYK about the results.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 08:39 AM by Ostap »

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
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  • Posts: 4357
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2015, 09:36 AM »
If I could reach out and help Ostap I would but I am sure that Festool HQ will be on the case very soon. From the video it looks like a genuine problem.

My OF1010 is perfect and has absolutely no play between the shafts and their bearings.

Peter

Offline Phil Beckley

  • Posts: 1518
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2015, 05:12 PM »
Just for update.
Phil's colleague did not contact me, but I was in contact with Festool Baltics myself.
Long story short, they stand with the decision that such play is normal for OF 1010.
I think this road has reached its end, I'm sure they did the best they could under the circumstances.

Looking last night the Peters video about inlays I had trouble imagining doing similar thing with my OF, so I asked for his advise. Of course I should have guessed he is FOG member and actually familiar with the case :)
I'm currently trying to establish connection with Festool DE and try to get to some reasonable solution.

Will LYK about the results.

Hi Ostap
 My colleague got back to me that the machine was fine when tested. I have informed him about this and again asked the he contact you direct.
rg
Phil

Offline Ostap

  • Posts: 26
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2015, 05:25 AM »
My colleague got back to me that the machine was fine when tested. I have informed him about this and again asked the he contact
Thanks Phil, but I honestly believe Festool LT already did everything in their power here. There is no broken part (I think) in my device Festool LT could have replaced.

The fact that another router in the shop has similar play kinda indicates that there is some mass-prod issue, either deliberate or non-deliberate. In my opinion bushings used are just produced wrong and oversized. There is no point to replace existing busing with spare one that comes from the same box.

Inspired by fshanno, I created two short videos about my OF1010 (these videos were shared with Festool LT).
I took a scrap piece of OSB and clamped router with 5 mm hole drilling bit to it. When zoomed in, you can actually see how much router bit moves compared to work piece when knob in not tight (0:21).


I drilled 3 holes to the test piece. First two were done with knob being loose, third one with as much tight as possible. I intentionally wiggled with router to the level of the play, but did not use any force, just fingertips.

As you can see, the left two holes are fully unacceptable, the 5mm plug just falls into the hole. in 0:37 in the video you can see how oversize the hole is. The third gets very close to acceptance but is still worse comparing 5mm hole I drilled into the same wood by hand. (Please ignore the leftmost hole as I did it before I clamped router, so its size is not informative)

As per Festool LT they consulted with German colleagues and suggested to upgrade to OF1400 if I am interested in precision, I'm on my way to get statement from Festool DE directly whether the videos above are really what one could expect from OF 1010. The information can then be used by customers choosing which product to purchase.

Offline Locks14

  • Posts: 291
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2015, 05:45 AM »
Just for update.
Phil's colleague did not contact me, but I was in contact with Festool Baltics myself.
Long story short, they stand with the decision that such play is normal for OF 1010.
I think this road has reached its end, I'm sure they did the best they could under the circumstances.

Looking last night the Peters video about inlays I had trouble imagining doing similar thing with my OF, so I asked for his advise. Of course I should have guessed he is FOG member and actually familiar with the case :)
I'm currently trying to establish connection with Festool DE and try to get to some reasonable solution.

Will LYK about the results.

Hi Ostap
 My colleague got back to me that the machine was fine when tested. I have informed him about this and again asked the he contact you direct.
rg
Phil

This is brilliant!

Festool's advice is if you want precision you have to buy an OF1400.   [eek]

That's like buying a brand new BMW 3 series with a defective steering rack and when complaining BMW saying "oh you wanted a car that goes in a straight line? You should really upgrade to a 5 series!"
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 05:48 AM by Locks14 »

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2015, 05:50 AM »
...
As per Festool LT they consulted with German colleagues and suggested to upgrade to OF1400 if I am interested in precision, I'm on my way to get statement from Festool DE directly whether the videos above are really what one could expect from OF 1010. The information can then be used by customers choosing which product to purchase.

Thanks Ostap, you've certainly helped my decision making.

Are you in Talin? (it is the only place I have been there, but it was very gorgeous).

Offline gary in texas

  • Posts: 613
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2015, 10:52 AM »
I really don't understand how this much play can be acceptable with the OF1010...  As "fshanno" mentioned above, using this with the LR32 system would leave your holey rail rendered useless, before and after, as your bit would be gouging out the aluminum with each plunge!

I guess I need to inspect my 1010 and holey rail when I get home this evening.....

Gary

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1865
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2015, 12:01 PM »
I really don't understand how this much play can be acceptable with the OF1010...  As "fshanno" mentioned above, using this with the LR32 system would leave your holey rail rendered useless, before and after, as your bit would be gouging out the aluminum with each plunge!

I'm not sure whether you have the LR32, but the holes in the "holey" rail are there for alignment. The router cutter does not go anywhere near them so the bit wouldn't be gouging out the aluminium with each plunge.

Having said that, in my mind, the videos clearly show an unacceptable level of "wobble" and my own OF 1010 displays no such movement and is very accurate.

I'm not questioning the original poster regarding his communications as I have no visibility of them, but I'd be amazed if Festool actually suggested buying an OF 1400 rather than an OF 1010 if you want precision.

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: OF 1010 play
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2015, 12:33 PM »
I'm not questioning the original poster regarding his communications as I have no visibility of them, but I'd be amazed if Festool actually suggested buying an OF 1400 rather than an OF 1010 if you want precision.

I'd be surprised too, if it weren't for...

Hi Ostap
 My colleague got back to me that the machine was fine when tested. I have informed him about this and again asked the he contact you direct.
rg
Phil

Which makes it sound like perhaps in Lithuania they might say things like that.
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