Author Topic: HKC 55 EB review  (Read 129112 times)

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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #90 on: September 17, 2016, 10:28 AM »
North America is BIG. It's often difficult to find a place within a reasonable driving distance to "try out" a tool. Since UPS will bring it you, and Festool offers a 30 return policy (for any or no reason), just order it and then try it, makes the most sense here,

Remember you are responsible for return shipping, and accessories are not covered by the 30 day no questions asked return policy.
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Offline Arvid

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #91 on: September 18, 2016, 02:08 PM »
The closest festoon retailer to me is woodcraft and they do not always have in stock what you want to look at and also 1-1/2 hour away from me. I was not the only one to mention that the grip rubbed on my knuckles. And many big men bigger then me have small slender fingers and many men smaller then me have sausage fingers. I don't consider my hands to be large but on the medium scale. No other festool saw has given me that problem just the hk55. So i know i am responsible  for shipping and will send it back as it was the gamble i took. As to why festool should take back a saw that was tried out i wouldn't call it used. Well because i can buy a saw at any home center and if not happy with it i can return it as well. no questions asked is no questions asked.  I have been very happy with all my festools. This one is just not for me. I hold my saw the same way i would hold a 357 with a pistol grip. Any altered grip would give me less control. just trying to give people a friendly heads up if they can try before they buy they should. if not order and live with it or send it back. At the price of the saw i opted to send it back. Might try a mafell 400

Offline Lbob131

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #92 on: September 18, 2016, 05:17 PM »
The Mafell  hand grip   looks  the same. They probably copied festool. For those of us  with normal sized hands  it will probably  be fine....

The mafell  is limited  in depth of cut  in comparison to the   festool.
As you can see from the video.

And weighs a brutal 6kg  in comparison   to the  sensible   4kg  of the festool. I'm not convinced with  mafell and their prices   are off the scale.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 05:30 PM by Lbob131 »

Offline Arvid

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #93 on: September 18, 2016, 06:09 PM »
The Mafell  hand grip   looks  the same. They probably copied festool. For those of us  with normal sized hands  it will probably  be fine....

define normal sized hands.   

       

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #94 on: September 18, 2016, 06:19 PM »
The Mafell  hand grip   looks  the same. They probably copied festool. For those of us  with normal sized hands  it will probably  be fine....

The mafell  is limited  in depth of cut  in comparison to the   festool.
As you can see from the video.

And weighs a brutal 6kg  in comparison   to the  sensible   4kg  of the festool. I'm not convinced with  mafell and their prices   are off the scale.

The cutting depth specs for both saws is the same, 55mm off the rail. Is the Mafell rail thicker?

Offline Arvid

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #95 on: September 18, 2016, 06:45 PM »
mafell handle sits higher up too. sits a touch more above the blade housing.  yes cutting depth looks to be the same.
 

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #96 on: September 18, 2016, 06:57 PM »
mafell handle sits higher up too. sits a touch more above the blade housing.  yes cutting depth looks to be the same.

I have fairly larger hands and I don't have any trouble with the KSS 400.  I'm not sure if the handle sits up any higher, but there is a step in the blade housing to give more room for your hand.
250966-0

The KSS 400 has slightly more cutting depth on a 45 degree bevel.  It can cut all the way through a 2x4 on a 45, the Festool HK saws can't.
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Offline Arvid

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #97 on: September 18, 2016, 07:05 PM »
mafell handle sits higher up too. sits a touch more above the blade housing.  yes cutting depth looks to be the same.

I have fairly larger hands and I don't have any trouble with the KSS 400.  I'm not sure if the handle sits up any higher, but there is a step in the blade housing to give more room for your hand.
(Attachment Link)

The KSS 400 has slightly more cutting depth on a 45 degree bevel.  It can cut all the way through a 2x4 on a 45, the Festool HK saws can't.

good info right here. not only does the festool not have the step in the blade housing for more room, but it is the lever that unlocks the plunge feature that steps out from the blade housing that rubs on your knuckles. maybe thats why the russians in the video on the first page are wearing gloves.
I'm not sure but i believe the hk55 can cut a 2x4 beveled at 45 but could be wrong. if it can't then it is even more useless then i thought for me.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 07:18 PM by Arvid »

Offline Arvid

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #98 on: September 18, 2016, 07:32 PM »
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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #99 on: September 18, 2016, 07:38 PM »
The HK saws can not cut a North American 2 x 4 on a 45 degree bevel on a rail.  I confirmed that in person last weekend.  That is what had previously been reported here and I can confirm that my information came directly from a Festool trainer who had already been asked that question several times before I talked to him.

Peter

Offline Arvid

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #100 on: September 18, 2016, 08:12 PM »
The HK saws can not cut a North American 2 x 4 on a 45 degree bevel on a rail.  I confirmed that in person last weekend.  That is what had previously been reported here and I can confirm that my information came directly from a Festool trainer who had already been asked that question several times before I talked to him.

Peter

i know i tried it with out being on the rail with no problem, can you confirm if it cuts through a 2x on the rail as well? thats what i did not try out and was not sure of.

Offline ScotF

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #101 on: September 18, 2016, 08:24 PM »
Some good information in this thread -- great to hear some real-world feedback. I have patiently waited for the HK saws to be released as I need a lighter weight saw for processing hardwood. The new KSS60 has even more cutting capacity, but like all things Mafell much higher priced. The hand clearance is not something I would have even thought about had I just ordered online. I will need to check it out in the store first-hand.

Offline Arvid

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #102 on: September 18, 2016, 08:31 PM »
Some good information in this thread -- great to hear some real-world feedback. I have patiently waited for the HK saws to be released as I need a lighter weight saw for processing hardwood. The new KSS60 has even more cutting capacity, but like all things Mafell much higher priced. The hand clearance is not something I would have even thought about had I just ordered online. I will need to check it out in the store first-hand.

let us know what you think when you try it out. if i was only using it for 10 - 20 cuts  day no big deal. But if I'm going to be cutting all day or a good part of that day i know it would of rubbed my knuckles raw

Offline Untidy Shop

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #103 on: September 18, 2016, 08:53 PM »
The HK saws can not cut a North American 2 x 4 on a 45 degree bevel on a rail.  I confirmed that in person last weekend.  That is what had previously been reported here and I can confirm that my information came directly from a Festool trainer who had already been asked that question several times before I talked to him.

Peter

Which makes for a problem in a Metric world also. A 42mm cut at 45 degrees is 3mm short on Aussie 90/140mm X 45mm framing/bearing/rafter timber.

The Australian website does not specify with or without rail. I note that these angled specifications are the same as for the TS55R. In aiming to be light weight through a 160mm blade system, there is only so much that can be achieved. These saws are complimentary, not a replacement to a good on site mitre saw.

Still, in construction its increasingly a square world! [eek] [smile]

@Peter Halle
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 08:58 PM by Untidy Shop »
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Offline jimbo51

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #104 on: September 18, 2016, 08:56 PM »
I have tried a few 45 degree cuts on 2x material. My results are rather mixed. Sometimes I could get a clean looking cut on one side and sometimes not. Very minor differences in the thickness of the board may be critical in the result. I never got a clean cut on both sides of the cut. I also had a couple of times where the saw seemed to jam during the cut of a 2x8 . I suppose that practice will decrease any jamming.

I just did a couple of more cuts. I found that putting 2 boards side by side made the whole experience much more stable. Again, more practice would be helpful in getting the rather unwieldy rig to sit properly on a 2x4. I will post a couple of examples of the results on a piece of width trimmed 2x8. This board was not dead flat, but perhaps that is a more real world test.

I saw a response that putting a 162 mm blade on the HKC is not feasible. Is that because of a technical issue or because Festool made a deal with Mafell not to use 162 mm blades?



Offline Arvid

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #105 on: September 19, 2016, 12:07 AM »
If it can't consistently cut a 2x beveled 45 degrees it's a failure in my book.
And it's funny in every video demoing the saw they demo a compound miter cut but only set the bevel to about 30 degrees.  carefully not promoting it won't cut all the way through at 45 degrees. One guy says let's just pick any angle not saying what angle it was.
One other guy even says a compound miter for a valley rafter and sets it to about 30 degrees which shows me he knows nothing about valley rafters if he isn't Cutting a 45 degree bevel which is required for most hip, valley and jack rafters.
If it wasn't  promoted and demonstrated so much on 2x material as I've seen I wouldn't be as critical. Another great trim saw from festool. But as a framing saw it's limited.


Offline Peter Halle

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #106 on: September 19, 2016, 03:16 AM »
I should clarify what I wrote.  On the rail the HKC will not cut cleanly thru a 2 x so that piece remaining under the rail does not have a lip on it.  The off cut piece is cut all the way thru.

Peter

Offline Arvid

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #107 on: September 19, 2016, 07:30 AM »
I should clarify what I wrote.  On the rail the HKC will not cut cleanly thru a 2 x so that piece remaining under the rail does not have a lip on it.  The off cut piece is cut all the way thru.

Peter

So it cuts deep enough that it breaks of the last remaining millimeter
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 08:52 AM by Arvid »

Offline T. Ernsberger

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #108 on: September 19, 2016, 07:44 AM »
If it can't consistently cut a 2x beveled 45 degrees it's a failure in my book.
And it's funny in every video demoing the saw they demo a compound miter cut but only set the bevel to about 30 degrees.  carefully not promoting it won't cut all the way through at 45 degrees. One guy says let's just pick any angle not saying what angle it was.
One other guy even says a compound miter for a valley rafter and sets it to about 30 degrees which shows me he knows nothing about valley rafters if he isn't Cutting a 45 degree bevel which is required for most hip, valley and jack rafters.
If it wasn't  promoted and demonstrated so much on 2x material as I've seen I wouldn't be as critical. Another great trim saw from festool. But as a framing saw it's limited.


I agree, it should cut a 2x on a 45 degree bevel.  In my option its a major fail.   I had originally had a HK on preorder until I got to play with the saw and tried to cut a 45 bevel on a 2x6 and it couldn't cut all the way through.  I actually brought my own 2x6 to the demo to see what it could do.  I really like Festool tools and feel like they are well engineered tools.   Not sure why the saw was brought to the US as it is in Europe and was not changed or modified to be able to cut a common cut.   This in my option will limit sales of the saw.   I was very excited and it would bring a new group of people into the Festool world, but a person that does framing will pass on this saw for its lack of depth.   

Offline Arvid

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #109 on: September 19, 2016, 08:50 AM »
It was deceitfully demonstrated in my opinion showing what it can do but not what it could not do. You may say well who will point out everything a tool cannot do? Do not demo the saw on framing material used everyday in common framing work if it cannot handle the tasks of processing that material as commonly needed. The people demonstrating it in North America in the videos I've seen were very careful to avoid letting it be known that a compound miter at a 45 degree bevel was not achievable . Not truthful advertising and very biased reviews I've seen.



Offline T. Ernsberger

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #110 on: September 19, 2016, 08:57 AM »
It was deceitfully demonstrated in my opinion showing what it can do but not what it could not do. You may say well who will point out everything a tool cannot do? Do not demo the saw on framing material used everyday in common framing work if it cannot handle the tasks of processing that material as commonly needed. The people demonstrating it in North America in the videos I've seen were very careful to avoid letting it be known that a compound miter at a 45 degree bevel was not achievable . Not truthful advertising and very biased reviews I've seen.

The nice thing about Festool is the 30 day money back guarantee.  You can return your saw and get your money back with no questions asked.  I feel this is going to be a common practice with this saw.  I'm personally saving my money and get the Mafell KSS400 from Toolnut. 

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #111 on: September 19, 2016, 10:04 AM »
I should clarify what I wrote.  On the rail the HKC will not cut cleanly thru a 2 x so that piece remaining under the rail does not have a lip on it.  The off cut piece is cut all the way thru.

Peter

It will cut through dry small 2x4s at 45* on the guide rail but when the stock is green (thicker than 1.5") and/or wide and cupped (not perfectly flat) then the blade might not reach the far side. Since the rail can rock on a high spot (bad for miters) it might cut trough a cupped board from the convex side. But if you cut a cupped board from the concave side (the guide rail spans the valley) the blade might not reach all the way.

A 45* miter on anything wider than a 2x4 gets iffy it seems.

Offline Arvid

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #112 on: September 19, 2016, 10:51 AM »
It was deceitfully demonstrated in my opinion showing what it can do but not what it could not do. You may say well who will point out everything a tool cannot do? Do not demo the saw on framing material used everyday in common framing work if it cannot handle the tasks of processing that material as commonly needed. The people demonstrating it in North America in the videos I've seen were very careful to avoid letting it be known that a compound miter at a 45 degree bevel was not achievable . Not truthful advertising and very biased reviews I've seen.
The nice thing about Festool is the 30 day money back guarantee.  You can return your saw and get your money back with no questions asked.  I feel this is going to be a common practice with this saw.  I'm personally saving my money and get the Mafell KSS400 from Toolnut.

I agree. Just feel this tool was deceitfully marketed toward use with framing lumber and the reviews were very poor by not demonstrating it's simple limitations.
Going with Mafall on this one too.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 10:57 AM by Arvid »

Offline Svar

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #113 on: September 19, 2016, 01:03 PM »
I should clarify what I wrote.  On the rail the HKC will not cut cleanly thru a 2 x so that piece remaining under the rail does not have a lip on it.  The off cut piece is cut all the way thru.

Peter

165 mm blades with 20 mm bore are common. Will that solve the problem? I know Festool will not like it, but there seem to be enough clearance between 160 mm blade and riving knife on HKC. That will throw off your depth scale of course.
Festool could even do some minor modifications to use slightly larger blade for NA market. Does not look like major redesign.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 01:09 PM by Svar »

Offline Lbob131

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #114 on: September 19, 2016, 01:05 PM »
So to conclude   the hkc55  and the mafell Kss400  have the same cutting   capacities?

On my  Mafell  catalogue  it states the   Kss400 cordless  has a   cutting depth  of  49.5mm (90 degrees)  with  the track  and  40mm  @ 45 degrees  with the track.

And on the Festool UK website  it states  the HKC55  cutting 55mm @90  degrees  and 42mm  @ 45 degrees.
Though not sure if that's  with or without the rail.

Can anyone confirm  if the HKC 55  has the same  handle  clearance as the TS 55?

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 473
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #115 on: September 19, 2016, 01:08 PM »
If it can't consistently cut a 2x beveled 45 degrees it's a failure in my book.
And it's funny in every video demoing the saw they demo a compound miter cut but only set the bevel to about 30 degrees.  carefully not promoting it won't cut all the way through at 45 degrees. One guy says let's just pick any angle not saying what angle it was.
One other guy even says a compound miter for a valley rafter and sets it to about 30 degrees which shows me he knows nothing about valley rafters if he isn't Cutting a 45 degree bevel which is required for most hip, valley and jack rafters.
If it wasn't  promoted and demonstrated so much on 2x material as I've seen I wouldn't be as critical. Another great trim saw from festool. But as a framing saw it's limited.


I agree, it should cut a 2x on a 45 degree bevel.  In my option its a major fail.   I had originally had a HK on preorder until I got to play with the saw and tried to cut a 45 bevel on a 2x6 and it couldn't cut all the way through.  I actually brought my own 2x6 to the demo to see what it could do.  I really like Festool tools and feel like they are well engineered tools.   Not sure why the saw was brought to the US as it is in Europe and was not changed or modified to be able to cut a common cut.   This in my option will limit sales of the saw.   I was very excited and it would bring a new group of people into the Festool world, but a person that does framing will pass on this saw for its lack of depth.

Will the mafail  kss400  cordless cut  2x  on a 45  degree bevel  angle?

It tells you in the festool  manual  the HKC 55  cuts  40mm @45 degrees.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 01:17 PM by Lbob131 »

Offline Lbob131

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #116 on: September 19, 2016, 01:15 PM »
The HK saws can not cut a North American 2 x 4 on a 45 degree bevel on a rail.  I confirmed that in person last weekend.  That is what had previously been reported here and I can confirm that my information came directly from a Festool trainer who had already been asked that question several times before I talked to him.

Peter

It tells  you on the specs  on the UK website the capacity  is  40mm @45 degrees.

Offline Lbob131

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #117 on: September 19, 2016, 01:19 PM »
mafell handle sits higher up too. sits a touch more above the blade housing.  yes cutting depth looks to be the same.

Aaah  the same. That's what I said.

Offline Lbob131

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #118 on: September 19, 2016, 01:27 PM »
The clearance  between   the handle  and the guard on my  ts55  is 50mm.

Is the HKC 55 less that that?

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 473
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #119 on: September 19, 2016, 01:32 PM »
mafell handle sits higher up too. sits a touch more above the blade housing.  yes cutting depth looks to be the same.

I have fairly larger hands and I don't have any trouble with the KSS 400.  I'm not sure if the handle sits up any higher, but there is a step in the blade housing to give more room for your hand.
(Attachment Link)

The KSS 400 has slightly more cutting depth on a 45 degree bevel.  It can cut all the way through a 2x4 on a 45, the Festool HK saws can't.

good info right here. not only does the festool not have the step in the blade housing for more room, but it is the lever that unlocks the plunge feature that steps out from the blade housing that rubs on your knuckles. maybe thats why the russians in the video on the first page are wearing gloves.
I'm not sure but i believe the hk55 can cut a 2x4 beveled at 45 but could be wrong. if it can't then it is even more useless then i thought for me.

Ah OK. So that  distance is  less than 50mm?
If the mafell   doesn't do what you want  then surely its useless also?