Festool Owners Group

FESTOOL DISCUSSIONS => Festool Tool Reviews => Topic started by: matte on January 28, 2017, 04:22 AM

Title: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: matte on January 28, 2017, 04:22 AM
Hi. All. I already have a Kapex 60 e set.  I love the compact design , led light. It feels very robust. Well build.  Butt when i gonna cut a piece of wood with dimension like 30 cm x 25 cm, 90 degrees. The cut will not be spot on 90 degrees. Already contacted festool ask what to do.  They say that i could try to solve the problem by myself. Butt i put some hours in it and i didn't not get the saw cutting 90 degrees. So my is gonna going back to festool.  I measured with 2 different squares. One is a starret other one a angulus.  Both squares shows the same problem

Here you can see that i pulled out he saw and putt the square against the saw teeth.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170128/a4a52b550e2b5d33dd266f04f028918c.jpg)

Here i dropped the saw back at its beginning and then you can see that there is a gap between the teeth and de square

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170128/dee1ebef2a1c9d79b09da971bf97cd9a.jpg)

Here you can see the gap between the cutted piece of wood and the square. At 90 degrees
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170128/c8259786c18485ace652679c12da0b2f.jpg)
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: Alex on January 28, 2017, 11:03 AM
Hm, first real life report of the new saw on the FOG and it already has to go back.
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: Harry1561 on February 10, 2017, 03:46 AM
Any other owners of the new ks60 with a review of the saw? I'm going to put my order in with my local dealer in the morning   [eek] [scared]
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: sortandtorque on February 10, 2017, 05:55 AM
Thanks for this info as we have started selling the KS 60 here in guildford UK. A few have gone out so if we here anything will keep you updated.
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: VesaS on February 10, 2017, 09:53 AM
Thanks for this info as we have started selling the KS 60 here in guildford UK. A few have gone out so if we here anything will keep you updated.

Looking forward to your review. I'm considering KS 60 too.

Vesa
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: Skill Builder on February 10, 2017, 04:13 PM
 I don't know but I am thinking that this is just the usual matter of setting up or adjusting. Most Festool saws seem to be well set up out of the box but many other saws coming out of China need a lot of adjustment and some need constant adjustment especially if they are thrown into the back of the van.
It should be possible for your dealer to help you but it is a good idea to learn how to make those micro adjustments. I use a square and a torch. You also need to be sure the square is accurate some are not.
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: Svar on February 10, 2017, 04:48 PM
I use a square and a torch.
A torch?! What do you do with it?
Anyway, isn't the angle scale on KS60 adjustable, i.e. can be loosened up and moved side to side a little?
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: Jak147 on February 10, 2017, 05:49 PM
The problem would be that while the scale may line up the detent would not. Are the other preset angles also off? I.e. Do two 45cuts make a true 90?
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: Peter Halle on February 10, 2017, 09:40 PM
Just as a clarification a flashlight is sometimes called a torch in some parts of the world.

Peter
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: Holmz on February 10, 2017, 09:46 PM
My dictionary links it with witch hunts

torch |tɔːtʃ|
noun
1 Brit.a portable battery-powered electric lamp.
• chiefly historical a portable means of illumination such as a piece of wood or cloth soaked in tallow and ignited, sometimes carried ceremonially used in witch hunts.
• [ in sing. ] used to refer to a valuable quality, principle, or cause, which needs to be protected and maintained: mountain warlords carried the torch of Greek independence.
2 chiefly N. Amer.a blowlamp.
3 US informal an arsonist.
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: Cheese on February 10, 2017, 10:44 PM
My dictionary links it with witch hunts

Witch hunt...torch...got it. But flashlight? WTF

I've just chuckled for the last 5 minutes over this item. Who'd have thunk...sometimes the American, English & Aussie words for the same item are more difficult to understand than the same items in Finnish, Italian, German or Spanish!
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: antss on February 10, 2017, 10:57 PM
A hardened square from Starrett is accurate , trust me.

I would expect to have to fiddle with a cheap homeowner's grade saw from a Chinese factory. 

I do not expect to have to mess about with an expensive saw saw from a premimum manufacturer made in a German factory. Presumably , (and I'm fairly certain it's been said in writing on FOG) that part of the added cost of a Festool is in part because materials are better, and quality control more stringent.

If not , and these are actually just regular no name quality tools in a slick package and an excited fan club - then we are really being taken advantage of.
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: Cheese on February 10, 2017, 11:28 PM
A hardened square from Starrett is accurate , trust me.

A Starrett Master Precision square has a squareness accuracy of .0001 per 6". So if you decide to come up with the $656 necessary to purchase a Starrett 12" square, you'll be able to measure a squareness of .0002". That's the equivalent of 1/5 the thickness of a human hair, if we accept that the standard hair is .003" in diameter.

Some people rail against the cost of the Woodpeckers squares, but they are indeed cheap, cheap, cheap compared to the traditional alternatives.
A Starrett 20/36 square runs $4200, while the Woodpeckers 16/26 runs $200.

The Starrett 20/24 is relatively cheap at $1800.
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: Holmz on February 10, 2017, 11:57 PM
@Cheese the flashlight is the cordless version of a torch... like Torch-REB

On my iPhone I have an iTorch app...
It is a conundrum.
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: kevinculle on February 11, 2017, 08:02 AM
If the OP downloads the Kapex 120 supplemental manual (an invaluable resource) and performs the four cut test he will get a very accurate reading on the accuracy of the saw at 90 degrees.
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: Nigel on February 11, 2017, 12:20 PM
A hardened square from Starrett is accurate , trust me.

A Starrett Master Precision square has a squareness accuracy of .0001 per 6". So if you decide to come up with the $656 necessary to purchase a Starrett 12" square, you'll be able to measure a squareness of .0002". That's the equivalent of 1/5 the thickness of a human hair, if we accept that the standard hair is .003" in diameter.

Some people rail against the cost of the Woodpeckers squares, but they are indeed cheap, cheap, cheap compared to the traditional alternatives.
A Starrett 20/36 square runs $4200, while the Woodpeckers 16/26 runs $200.

The Starrett 20/24 is relatively cheap at $1800.

Can't understand anyone paying these prices to work with wood....
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: antss on February 11, 2017, 12:33 PM
[quote/]
The Starrett 20/24 is relatively cheap at $1800.
[/quote]



Can't understand anyone paying these prices to work with wood....
[/quote]




That is hilarious , coming from a FOG subscriber and presumed Festool owner. 🤑
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: Timtool on February 11, 2017, 02:03 PM
It's not very clear if the problem is in adjusting the scale, or if the scale detents themselves are wrong.
If it's anything like the KS120 then it's a pretty easy procedure, granted it should be set right enough in the factory. But re adjusting the scale is something you have to do sooner or later any way along with the lasers. Sending it back for that is pretty drastic, almost ridiculous, especially knowing the carrier service who brings it back might be tossing the box around. But again it's not clear if the problem is only in adjusting the scale. I recall that my used KS120 had a bent back fence, but some had it on new ones. That would cause kick backs and make it impossible to set right on both sides.
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: matte on February 11, 2017, 02:22 PM
The fence is looseable. At the top of the fence there are 4 hex bolts. I tried myself to make the kapex cut square. Tried for several ours. One time i thought it was square, but it wasn`t. When i made a cut with a piece of wood at the left side of the fence ( so the wood piece was at the left side of the blade) it was square. Butt when i made the same cut at the right side of the square it wasn`t square. I don`t know what the problem , i cannot solve the problem myself , thats why the saw will go back to festool. I think that a mitre saw at this price point must cut square. i will keep you informed about the kapex ..
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: Nigel on February 13, 2017, 06:48 AM
[quote/]
The Starrett 20/24 is relatively cheap at $1800.



Can't understand anyone paying these prices to work with wood....
[/quote]




That is hilarious , coming from a FOG subscriber and presumed Festool owner. 🤑
[/quote]


Perhaps your own words would make my meaning clearer?

''I have a twin rail saw that's a lot lighter than a ks60 and it cost all of 80 quid !  And I think you mean say the KS60 has acceptable deflection don't you ?  There's a thread round here recently when I think @Cheese showed that one can deflect any mitersaw a measurable amount- which isn't none.  At the end of the day pretty much all mitersaws can and will cut a piece of wood accurately enough for carpentry jobs that we do.

We're not building Formula1 engines that require infinitesimal amounts of precision.''
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: kevinculle on February 13, 2017, 07:33 AM
The real reason that high precision tools like Starrett are overkill for woodworking is in the nature of wood itself.  If you are worried about tolerances of 0.0001" over 6" you need to consider the limiting effect of wood movement as ambient humidity fluctuates.  Dialing in a setting to this degree when the piece you are machining will move 10 or 20 times that tolerance while it sits on your bench waiting for assembly is the issue!
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: Nigel on February 13, 2017, 01:21 PM
Exactly. Well put and far better than me...
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: Chris Wong on February 14, 2017, 12:48 AM
When i made a cut with a piece of wood at the left side of the fence ( so the wood piece was at the left side of the blade) it was square. Butt when i made the same cut at the right side of the square it wasn't square

This is usually an indication that the fence isn't straight.
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: Iceclimber on February 14, 2017, 07:06 AM
I dont know about anyone else but i expect my miter saw to cut square. At least over a short span od say 3-4".

I make lots of rail and style doors face frames so forth and so on. I process the stock on the moter saw, then move to the shaper for the cope and stick. If my miter cuts are off everything ends up off and you chase square the rest of the project.

I only mill up or bring to final dimension enough lumber that i can assemble the doors or face frames within a couple hours of putting the cope and stick on them. Point is i attempt to get a perfect fit with no gaps. If the wood moves and i have to apply more pressure with clamps than i would like so be it. The point os i do everything i can from the get go to avoid such.

My Kapex has a bent fence as i can chase adjusting square from left to right all day and never get it perfect on both sides. Annoying as heck for a saw that cost $1800 all said and done.

Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: ach_78 on February 16, 2017, 08:37 AM
Before anything else, the fence should be dead flat from right to left (not concave nor convex), and it should be square to the bed (horizontal surface). If it is not it should be replaced under warranty.

Second, the square cut detent shoud produce a square cut. If not, the fence should be adjusted accordingly. This is probably the most time-consuming and tedious task if it is like pretty much all Festool calibration type : unscrew, move, tighten back. More than one trial and check might be necessary. The 5 cuts method can tell you if the cut is square or not with a precision way beyond any visual inspection (no matter the precision of the square).

Last, the scale should be adjustable and aligned to the 0° position.

Unless there is somethink actually wrong with the saw hardware (bent fence, etc) it is totally pointless to send it back because transport is typically what can throw a saw out of calibration.

Then you can proceed to calibrating the vertical squareness.
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: cosmin on February 04, 2019, 02:01 PM
The fence is looseable. At the top of the fence there are 4 hex bolts. I tried myself to make the kapex cut square. Tried for several ours. One time i thought it was square, but it wasn`t. When i made a cut with a piece of wood at the left side of the fence ( so the wood piece was at the left side of the blade) it was square. Butt when i made the same cut at the right side of the square it wasn`t square. I don`t know what the problem , i cannot solve the problem myself , thats why the saw will go back to festool. I think that a mitre saw at this price point must cut square. i will keep you informed about the kapex ..

did u sort it out somehow  ? mine doesnt cut angle brand new .
Title: Re: KS60 Comments from an owner
Post by: demographic on April 20, 2019, 07:15 AM
[quote/]
The Starrett 20/24 is relatively cheap at $1800.



Can't understand anyone paying these prices to work with wood....
[/quote]




That is hilarious , coming from a FOG subscriber and presumed Festool owner. 🤑
[/quote]

You do know that even the cheapo aluminium combination squares are pretty easy to modify if they are slightly out of square don't you?
Just use the square end to scrape a shaving off one of the bumps in the groove of the aluminium part.

Sometimes a little knowledge can save a huge amount of cash.

The cast iron combination squares are nice in a workshop where you just put them down on a bench but for anyone who regularly carries tools in a pouch a little less weight on a few items can make a big difference.
Plus the price difference obviously.