Author Topic: Domino 700 or 500  (Read 14307 times)

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Offline Millcrete

  • Posts: 8
Domino 700 or 500
« on: April 23, 2014, 07:22 PM »
Uses of either? Differences? Applications of either?eventually I'll get both  which should I get first?

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Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7652
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2014, 07:47 PM »
There's been a lot of discussion on this. Also lots of consideration of the Seneca Woodworking adaptor to extend the range of the 700 to the smaller dominos.

If you're going to ultimately get both, buy the one that suits your first project needs now.

The only real negative for the 700 is it's size ... it's a lovely machine.

500 = chairs, cabinets, boxes
700 = doors, tables, beds

as a guide anyway!

Offline Millcrete

  • Posts: 8
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2014, 07:53 PM »
Does that adaptor fit every small domino bit?

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3416
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2014, 07:56 PM »
Over simplification, but joining big pieces, 700. Joining small to medium pieces, 500. I am trying hard to dream up a project big enough to justify the 700. So far, no luck in spite of building large cabinets and bookcases. The 500 seems to do everything I can dream up to build. Perhaps, a log cabin?
Birdhunter

Offline promark747

  • Posts: 484
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2014, 08:04 PM »
Does that adaptor fit every small domino bit?

Yes. Two minor caveats: 1) the indexing pins on the 700 will not fit inside 4mm mortises, and 2) you will need a shim such as the Seneca Domishim (or equivalent) to use 3/4" or 1/2" material, as the fence on the 700 is offset 15mm (vs 10mm on the 500).


Offline jacko9

  • Posts: 2381
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2014, 08:21 PM »
If your going to get both eventually (like I have) then think about your first few projects and see which one fits best.  I use my 500 for cabinets, credenzas, small to medium size furniture.  My 700 shines in table building where stout leg to apron joints need the extra length and thickness and of course doors where even with doubling or stacking tenons the 500 doesn't cut deep enough.  Both machines are excellent and fit the everyday needs in a cabinet/furniture shop.

Jack

Offline jacko9

  • Posts: 2381
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2014, 09:30 PM »
The sale at Tool Nut got the better of me and I ordered a 500 and the assortment sys. I have plenty of projects this year where it will get good use. I went the route of the 500 because the 700 just seems too big and making smaller tenon slots with the Seneca adapter seems like a bulldozer for a post hole.

So I hear consistent distinctions made about when to use the 500 vs 700. But my question is how were doors and table tops built prior to the intro of the Domino in 2006 (the original to the 500)? The reason I ask is that such declarations of use are made but for tools which never existed a decade ago yet table tops and doors have been built for a loooong time. Sure, large cut mortise and tenon joinery was used but so were biscuits for decades, were they not? And biscuits are smaller than Domino tenons.

I used a slot mortising machine where I could cut 3/8", 7/16", 1/2", OR 5/8" mortises 4" deep as wide as I wanted to.  I cut the tenons on the table saw and for doors I always used multiple haunched tenons.

Jack

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7652
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2014, 09:36 PM »
The sale at Tool Nut got the better of me and I ordered a 500 and the assortment sys. I have plenty of projects this year where it will get good use. I went the route of the 500 because the 700 just seems too big and making smaller tenon slots with the Seneca adapter seems like a bulldozer for a post hole.

So I hear consistent distinctions made about when to use the 500 vs 700. But my question is how were doors and table tops built prior to the intro of the Domino in 2006 (the original to the 500)? The reason I ask is that such declarations of use are made but for tools which never existed a decade ago yet table tops and doors have been built for a loooong time. Sure, large cut mortise and tenon joinery was used but so were biscuits for decades, were they not? And biscuits are smaller than Domino tenons.

We've obviously had the option for chain mortising and had our "big machine" cut tenons for a long time - it's just that the Domino is a process revolution in that space ... Yes, dowels, pins, biscuits, etc have all been about too ... and don't forget pocket joinery.


Offline Ajax

  • Posts: 199
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2014, 09:50 PM »
I just received the DF500.  I'm probably going to get the DF700 before the sale ends in June.

I'm an amateur woodworker, but I've done plenty of mortise and tenon work for tables, desks, library stands, etc.  I'm into Craftsman style furniture, so M&T work is essential.  I'm interested to see how the Domino machine works out.  I've had good success cutting tenons by hand and with a table saw (both with a dado stack and with a tenoning jig.  I've also had good success with cutting mortises with a chisel, a forstner bit and chisel, and a router and a Mortise Pal.  The Mortise Pal is a fantastic way to go if you don't have a Domino.

I also bought a Leigh FMT  jig off EBay with all the templates that I plan to use for a set of dining room chairs.
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Offline Oso Rojo

  • Posts: 103
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2014, 10:12 PM »
I had my hands on both machines yesterday and the 700 seemed really big. I guess I'm used to the PC biscuit cutter and the 500 fits more that format. For me the 500 is big enough and the one or two projects I'll ever do that need more just will get more tenons.


Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2335
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2014, 11:30 PM »
I had my hands on both machines yesterday and the 700 seemed really big. I guess I'm used to the PC biscuit cutter and the 500 fits more that format. For me the 500 is big enough and the one or two projects I'll ever do that need more just will get more tenons.


. The 700 will shrink a bit as you get used to it [wink]
I started with the 500 and after about 3 or so years, I now got the DF700 to go along with it recently before the price increase. And yes, my dealer called me about the sale next month...... [embarassed]
But that's okay [big grin].
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3416
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2014, 12:54 AM »
I'd buy a 300 Domino if they would make much a jewel.
Birdhunter

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7652
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2014, 01:01 AM »
I had my hands on both machines yesterday and the 700 seemed really big. I guess I'm used to the PC biscuit cutter and the 500 fits more that format. For me the 500 is big enough and the one or two projects I'll ever do that need more just will get more tenons.


. The 700 will shrink a bit as you get used to it [wink]
I started with the 500 and after about 3 or so years, I now got the DF700 to go along with it recently before the price increase. And yes, my dealer called me about the sale next month...... [embarassed]
But that's okay [big grin].

So this is an interesting point ... and it's something that erks me with promotions down under (and not just Festool). The more you buy of a company's products, the less benefit you get from their promotions over time - but you'd think it should be the other way round!

Further ... bundles, what if you already have lots of CT's ?

Better promo plans please ... How sad would be to have invested in everything Domino and then be offered a discount? [crying]


Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7652
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2014, 01:02 AM »
I'd buy a 300 Domino if they would make much a jewel.
Yes please [wink]

Offline wow

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Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2014, 03:25 AM »
I had the same debate. In fact, I suspect everyone who buys a domino goes through that UNLESS they have a specific job that requires or is better suited to the XL. In the end I could only buy one (for now) so I chose the 500 simply because it was a better fit for most of what I expect to use a domino for.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if I ALSO pick up the 700/XL down the road a bit, once I have a need for it's capabilities and after my tool budget stops hemorrhaging.  [crying]
Trying to be one of the most helpful members on the FOG.

Offline shed9

  • Posts: 499
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2014, 03:55 AM »
The "500 for small and 700 for bigger" separate comparison is really a moot point in my opinion. It all comes down to ergonomics and maximum capacity requirements.

In reality the 700 can handle the full range of small and large Domino cutters with the Seneca kit (albeit with the end pin > small hole caveat already mentioned).

I have the 500 and the 700 (along with the Seneca adaptor and plates) and using the two machines side by side cutting the same size slots I prefer the 700 overall; The 700 is bigger but this translates into mass which itself translates into stability. Also the fence pins are better in use compared to the newer 500 paddles (yes I know you can get the old style 500 fence with pins but not out of the box). And of course you get a bit more power.

Appreciate everyone's interpretation of the tools will be different but this is mine.

My opinion is that the 500 is for small domino's, whereas the 700 is for small and / or larger domino's with the latter having a slight ergonomic edge.



Offline Michael1960

  • Posts: 187
  • It needs a little work...
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2014, 04:49 AM »
The "500 for small and 700 for bigger" separate comparison is really a moot point in my opinion. It all comes down to ergonomics and maximum capacity requirements.

In reality the 700 can handle the full range of small and large Domino cutters with the Seneca kit (albeit with the end pin > small hole caveat already mentioned).

I have the 500 and the 700 (along with the Seneca adaptor and plates) and using the two machines side by side cutting the same size slots I prefer the 700 overall; The 700 is bigger but this translates into mass which itself translates into stability. Also the fence pins are better in use compared to the newer 500 paddles (yes I know you can get the old style 500 fence with pins but not out of the box). And of course you get a bit more power.

Appreciate everyone's interpretation of the tools will be different but this is mine.

My opinion is that the 500 is for small domino's, whereas the 700 is for small and / or larger domino's with the latter having a slight ergonomic edge.



Agree with Shed 9 - if you are going to get both, I'd go the 500 first and when your ready for the 700 purchase you can decide if you want to go to the extra expense of purchasing the 8mm and 10mm cutters (doubling up with the 500).  This is what I have just done....

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 2074
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2014, 08:46 AM »
Does that adaptor fit every small domino bit?

Yes. Two minor caveats: 1) the indexing pins on the 700 will not fit inside 4mm mortises, and 2) you will need a shim such as the Seneca Domishim (or equivalent) to use 3/4" or 1/2" material, as the fence on the 700 is offset 15mm (vs 10mm on the 500).

I have a 700 and love it. I agree that you need the shims to really work with this beast, but she is a lovely beast.

The pins not fitting the 4mm holes is another matter. If you have a 500, you won't get pins in the first place, you will have paddles and they don't fit 4mm holes either. ;)

I will say that if you are building a lot of kit where there are a lot of shelves being mounted mid panel, the 500 may be your best choice.
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 2048
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2014, 02:44 PM »
I noticed that, in one response, this comment was made; "yes I know you can get the old style 500 fence with pins but not out of the box)".

How do you order the fence for the 500 with pins? I don't see it as an accessory on the Festool website.
Randy

Offline promark747

  • Posts: 484
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2014, 02:54 PM »
I noticed that, in one response, this comment was made; "yes I know you can get the old style 500 fence with pins but not out of the box)".

How do you order the fence for the 500 with pins? I don't see it as an accessory on the Festool website.

I think the only way is to find one secondhand/used.  As far as I know, Festool does not sell the old-style fence anymore.

Offline shed9

  • Posts: 499
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2014, 03:08 PM »
I noticed that, in one response, this comment was made; "yes I know you can get the old style 500 fence with pins but not out of the box)".

How do you order the fence for the 500 with pins? I don't see it as an accessory on the Festool website.

As noted up there, its not a current accessory, the only way to get one is second hand or perhaps as NOS (New Old Stock) from a dealer.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 2048
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2014, 03:56 PM »
Maybe this is inappropriate for this thread and is for Shane to answer but why did Festool change the 500 fence design? It seems as if most users feel the old style is superior.
Randy

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 2074
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2014, 04:53 PM »
Maybe this is inappropriate for this thread and is for Shane to answer but why did Festool change the 500 fence design? It seems as if most users feel the old style is superior.

I had heard (this was before my time on the FOG) that the pins were pushing the workpiece away from the fence. I believe they weren't able to lock into the fence like on the 700.
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline neeleman

  • Posts: 1273
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2014, 03:42 PM »
I noticed that, in one response, this comment was made; "yes I know you can get the old style 500 fence with pins but not out of the box)".

How do you order the fence for the 500 with pins? I don't see it as an accessory on the Festool website.

The fence with pins is not available anymore. You have to look for an old style second hand Domino DF 500 .
Festool probably had to change the pin-fence due to violation of a patented fence from the Mafell Duo Doweler DD40.
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Offline waltwood

  • Posts: 114
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2014, 06:13 PM »
The sale at Tool Nut got the better of me and I ordered a 500 and the assortment sys. I have plenty of projects this year where it will get good use. I went the route of the 500 because the 700 just seems too big and making smaller tenon slots with the Seneca adapter seems like a bulldozer for a post hole.

So I hear consistent distinctions made about when to use the 500 vs 700. But my question is how were doors and table tops built prior to the intro of the Domino in 2006 (the original to the 500)? The reason I ask is that such declarations of use are made but for tools which never existed a decade ago yet table tops and doors have been built for a loooong time. Sure, large cut mortise and tenon joinery was used but so were biscuits for decades, were they not? And biscuits are smaller than Domino tenons.

I used a Robland mortising machine which is a very nice tool. It has a 3 1/2 HP router mounted on it and it is very versatile tool. I built many doors with it. BUT, you have to make your own loose tenons each time and set up takes awhile. Another drawback is you have to bring the wood to it and support the end for example when mortising the end of an 80" stile of a door. You can mortise the end of 20' piece of wood with the Domino with no problem.

I have not used it since I got the Domino. 

Offline elfick

  • Posts: 621
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2014, 09:04 AM »
I'd buy a 300 Domino if they would make much a jewel.

They are making it, but they changed the name... It's called the Vecturo  ;)

Offline Festool USA

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Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2014, 11:15 AM »
The fence with pins is not available anymore. You have to look for an old style second hand Domino DF 500 .
Festool probably had to change the pin-fence due to violation of a patented fence from the Mafell Duo Doweler DD40.

The design was not changed due to a patent infringement, for what it's worth. If that were the case, the DF 700 wouldn't have pins...

Maybe this is inappropriate for this thread and is for Shane to answer but why did Festool change the 500 fence design? It seems as if most users feel the old style is superior.

The pin design was changed for a few reasons. One reason was because glue was getting into the pin mechanism and making it stick. I would say that it's incorrect that most people prefer the pin-style. It seems fairly equally divided from my experiences. I personally have the pin model and rarely use the pins for indexing. But, that's just how I use it. I rarely use the default distance between mortises provided by the pins. The cross stops have pins if you prefer indexing in that way.

Shane
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 11:19 AM by Shane Holland »

Offline promark747

  • Posts: 484
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2014, 12:42 PM »
When I first got my 700, I was using the pins.  But I was having occasional problems where the pin, when placed inside a previously-cut mortise, wouldn't seat all the way to the side and was getting hung up...and I wasn't checking carefully enough to ensure the fence was totally flat on the work piece.  My panels would then be slightly skewed.  Lately I've just been using pencil lines.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 2048
Re: Domino 700 or 500
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2014, 02:02 PM »
A follow up question . . . Why wouldn't glue get into the new stops in the same way as with the pins?
Randy