Author Topic: Domino joinery  (Read 2371 times)

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Offline HandyDen

  • Posts: 13
Domino joinery
« on: January 13, 2019, 06:28 PM »
Hello all,

I’m definitely going to get a Domino 500 for joinery at some point, but my immediate need is to join miters on relatively thin colonial casing (see picture).  I’m wondering if anyone has used their Domino 500 to join such a small joint?  If so, then thats my next purchase; if not, then I’ll probably end up buying a biscuit joiner.  I’d obviously rather just own the Domino...thoughts?

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Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1448
Re: Domino joinery
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2019, 06:42 PM »
Thumb rule for a domino is like for a normal dovel: 1/3rd stock thickness for optimal load bearing.
A 4mm domino in 10mm thick stock had worked for me, in case they're for alignment only you might get away with less.
You might have to be careful with swelling from the glue, a test on some cutoff will answer questions regarding that.

Keep in mind that Festool has a (14 or 30 day, depending on region) 'money back, no questions asked' program.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2720
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Domino joinery
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2019, 08:50 PM »
I think joining these moldings with the Domino will be very difficult. The machine needs a reference surface on both sides of the joint. I’m not sure what you would use as a reference surface on this molding. If you can solve the reference surface problem, a 4mm tenon on the thickest part of the molding might work.

Please post a picture or two of your solution.
Birdhunter

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6101
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Domino joinery
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2019, 09:08 PM »
Biscuit joiner for that one.

Tom

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1286
Re: Domino joinery
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2019, 09:36 PM »
I, too, don't think the DF500 -- if used in a hand-held mode -- is the right tool for the job, and a biscuit joiner has a better chance of success.

Any reason why that job can't be done the usual way -- with brads and wood filler?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 11:54 PM by ChuckM »

Offline HandyDen

  • Posts: 13
Re: Domino joinery
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2019, 09:44 PM »
Thanks for all the input.  I tried spring clamps and glue, but some of the joints open up.

I’ve never used a biscuit joiner either, but would that have the same alignment issues as a Domino?  If so, would clamping another piece on top (essentially creating a straight surface) alleviate this issue?

Anyone with a FT Domino willing to try this?


Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6101
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Domino joinery
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2019, 09:57 PM »
Thanks for all the input.  I tried spring clamps and glue, but some of the joints open up.

I’ve never used a biscuit joiner either, but would that have the same alignment issues as a Domino?  If so, would clamping another piece on top (essentially creating a straight surface) alleviate this issue?

Anyone with a FT Domino willing to try this?

Reference the piece from the back. That is to thin for a Domino.
Tom

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1448
Re: Domino joinery
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2019, 10:58 PM »
Unless I botched the strange measurement system you have the blue shape should be the size of a 4mm Domino:

290667-0

While it's tight on the thin side (and could bulge a bit on the back) it should be doable with a Domino (referencing from the back using a shim), though not very fun to do it in case you need to produce many of them. Wouldn't really be structural on the thin end, but should be enough to keep it from opening.

Routing a groove in the faces of the joint to glue in a thin strip of wood (= basically what a biscuit jointer does, just with a router) will likely be easier and faster. Or go for a Lamello (going that route you should think about the Zeta P2 as it'll offer more options for structural stuff - but that'll be a tad more expensive).

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1286
Re: Domino joinery
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2019, 11:56 PM »
Thanks for all the input.  I tried spring clamps and glue, but some of the joints open up.
Snip.
This kind of spring clamp may work better: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=54189&cat=1,43838,54189

Use two (upper & lower) per joint.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 11:59 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
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  • Posts: 4194
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Domino joinery
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2019, 02:53 AM »
Hi @HandyDen

Do not get me wrong, the DF500 is a fantastic bit of kit and has transformed my woodwork. I use mine almost every day.

But...

Why do you want to use a domino for a mitre joint? I routinely just use glue on my mitres and have used these joints in all sorts of furniture making and recently in a new design of bench which will be shown in a forthcoming video.

Here is a link to a video showing the panel construction of a piece of furniture. None of the large mitred joints were reinforced:



I admit that in some situations you might want to reinforce a joint but if it is destined for a low stress situation then it is just not necessary as modern glues are so good.

Peter


Online Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Domino joinery
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2019, 04:19 AM »
Hello all,

I’m definitely going to get a Domino 500 for joinery at some point, but my immediate need is to join miters on relatively thin colonial casing (see picture).  I’m wondering if anyone has used their Domino 500 to join such a small joint?  If so, then thats my next purchase; if not, then I’ll probably end up buying a biscuit joiner.  I’d obviously rather just own the Domino...thoughts?

Hi there, as great as the Domino system is, in my opinion it’s overkill in this application.
Dowells, or better still biscuits would be fine but, you would probably get away with decent glued joints. [thumbs up]

Offline nvalinski

  • Posts: 99
Re: Domino joinery
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2019, 07:37 AM »
I recently did all of my door casing miters like that with a 4mm domino. I only used one, not 3, but it worked very well. I think any more than one would be overkill and probably blow out the piece. I don't have my biscuit joiner anymore since getting my domino, but I tend to think that might actually have worse issues because of the length. At least the 4x20 mm domino is pretty narrow.

As for referencing, just flip the piece of casing on its front so the domino can rest on the casing back. Gives you a flat surface to reference.

Offline HandyDen

  • Posts: 13
Re: Domino joinery
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2019, 10:48 AM »
I love having access to all of your knowledge and experience!

@ChuckM - Those are the spring clamps I use.  They do work great for pinching the joint closed, but with so little surface area for glue (& the seasonal changes in Wisconsin), some of the joints end up opening up.  Additionally, I build the casing frames on the floor then lift them into place, which stresses the joint even with spring clamps. Maybe I should change my method and build the casings in place?

@Peter Parfitt - For the same reasons above, I thought biscuits or dominos would help keep the joint closed.  I’ve heard trim carpenters use biscuits for casing miters (in fact, there was a recent article in JLC about it), and I thought that if I could get away with using a Domino, there’d be no reason to own a biscuit joiner? I have a VERY small van which is packed tight already - eliminating one tool would be helpful.

@nvalinski - I agree that using one domino would be sufficient.  Was your casing tapered like the colonial?

Offline nvalinski

  • Posts: 99
Re: Domino joinery
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2019, 10:56 AM »
@HandyDen yes, it was tapered. Referencing the back proved to be no problem.

Offline HandyDen

  • Posts: 13
Re: Domino joinery
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2019, 02:46 PM »
@HandyDen yes, it was tapered. Referencing the back proved to be no problem.

Well there you have it! I guess I’m off to buy a Domino to give it a shot (as soon as the government opens and I start getting a paycheck again).  Thanks again for everyone’s input.

Offline Getmaverick

  • Posts: 135
Re: Domino joinery
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2019, 03:21 PM »
I believe that casing may even be to small for a biscuit. I would use some HiPur if it was me.

Offline HandyDen

  • Posts: 13
Re: Domino joinery
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2019, 06:57 PM »
@HandyDen yes, it was tapered. Referencing the back proved to be no problem.

Just reporting back - I bought the Domino 500 and tried it successfully on the colonial casing. The reason I considered doing this was because my casing miters would occasionally open with the weather changes here in Wisconsin, despite using glue and clamping:

292367-0

I intended to use 4mm dominoes, but decided to just try it with the 5mm - seemed to work just fine:

292369-1
292371-2


Offline jzhu

  • Posts: 11
Re: Domino joinery
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2019, 10:05 PM »
The best way to join the casing / picture frame is to use Hoffman dovetail key

The Hoffman dovetail machine is expensive, but you can just buy the router bit, dovetail key and make a router jig.



Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6521
Re: Domino joinery
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2019, 10:26 PM »
Hi there, as great as the Domino system is, in my opinion it’s overkill in this application.
Dowells, or better still biscuits would be fine but, you would probably get away with decent glued joints.

I joined all the oak window trim in our house using standard sized biscuits. After about 5-6 years every joint opened up and they looked horrible. At some point I decided to install new windows and when I tried to remove the oak trim in one piece, the biscuits all broke apart. It was truly horrible.

I’ve since replaced all the windows and replaced the oak trim using #4 Domonos and after 10 years, everything is still tight.