Author Topic: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop  (Read 13241 times)

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Offline Jim Metzger

  • Posts: 65
Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« on: June 26, 2017, 06:02 PM »
From ToolGuyd website "SawStop announced that they’re being acquired by Festool’s parent company, TTS Tooltechnic Systems!"
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[/size]Let the commenting begin[/color]
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[/size]Jim[/color]

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Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2280
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2017, 07:39 PM »
My dealer sent me this info......Wonder where this might take the Track Saws and their other saws in the future.... [scratch chin] [scratch chin] [scratch chin] [popcorn]
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 01:47 PM by leakyroof »
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Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2017, 09:59 PM »
I doubt anywhere.  The brake mech. are just too big for handheld tools.  [sad]

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2280
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2017, 10:15 PM »
I doubt anywhere.  The brake mech. are just too big for handheld tools.  [sad]
picture a much smaller one.... [cool]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2017, 11:33 PM »
And where is that mini brake going to mount, and how heavy is it going to be ?

And how much torque do you think it's gonna generate when it fires, and are you going to be able to hold on when it does ?

Possible , sure.  Practical ?  Me thinks not.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2017, 01:18 AM »
And where is that mini brake going to mount, and how heavy is it going to be ?

    On the bottom rear corner of the motor housing.



And how much torque do you think it's gonna generate when it fires, and are you going to be able to hold on when it does ?



I don't know how much torque but people will be much stronger by then so holding it down won't be an issue. Or TTS /SS will invent a torque countering limiter.




Possible , sure.  Practical ?  Me thinks not.


In the current form it might not be pratical, but who knows what may develop in the future from the basic concept. Every idea started somewhere.

Seth


Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3717
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2017, 04:32 AM »
TTS will redesign the MFT's to support the extra weight of the SS.
The giude rails will be built stronger for added support as well.
New earmuffs will be designed to lessen noise impact when the SS explodes.
Rick Cristopherson will be busy writing up a new instruction manual.
Uncle Bob will have to design new packaging.

Oh, there are all sorts of possibilities 8)
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2647
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2017, 05:37 AM »
I own a SawStop Industrial saw and greatly admire its design and execution. I've never had a problem, but called the company with questions early on. I got superior support.

I hope the acquisition doesn't affect product or support quality.

Once the safety technology is incorporated into a product and is proven to work, schools and other teaching organizations almost have to adopt it. Companies wishing to avoid injuries and injury claims will follow.

I would see bandsaws, miter saws, planets, jointers, drill presses, and shapers as being candidates. I think hand held power tools would be problematic.
Birdhunter

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 586
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2017, 07:24 AM »
I like my SS.  Fantastic tool.  I'd buy another without hesitation.  If the next one is green when it arrives, so be it. 

From another angle - getting acquired means changes.  It's unavoidable.  Without understanding the intended strategy, none will be able to guess if the changes will impact the product line or not.  Some acquiring entities allow the acquired to continue to operate with autonomy and others fully integrate moving all aspects in to leverage supply chain, mfg relationships, leadership, and so on.  Some changes will benefit the consumer and others may not.  Kinda gotta wait and see.

Regarding a previous comment - if they paint it green and jack up the price, it would likely hurt their market.  After using one for years now (I was an early adopter), I can honestly say I wouldn't have bought one for 2x the price.  I'd instead take up finger painting.


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Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2017, 08:20 AM »
Isn't the track saw concept safer than a table saw to begin with , hence one of its appeals ?

How much xtra would guys be willing to pay for this mini brake ?  The pricing is likely to put off even the FT faithful.

Can't see TTS leveraging supply chain economies with SS.  They aren't even a manufacture , and FT doesn't have that capability in house.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 819
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2017, 08:55 AM »
Isn't the track saw concept safer than a table saw to begin with , hence one of its appeals ?

How much xtra would guys be willing to pay for this mini brake ?  The pricing is likely to put off even the FT faithful.

Can't see TTS leveraging supply chain economies with SS.  They aren't even a manufacture , and FT doesn't have that capability in house.

The combination of the track, riving knife and spring loaded blade make it tremendously safer than the alternatives. I don't see any reason to add SawStop technology to the track saws.

People complain about SawStop prices now, just wait until the Festool pricing comes in. Mafell offers the Erika tablesaw and fully tricked out it is north of $3000 and that is for a portable tablesaw. It would have been much better for everyone if DeWalt or Bosch had bought SawStop and licensed the technology at a reasonable price. This transaction is not good for anyone expect TTS.

I guess SawStop's owner knew the end was near when Bosch introduced their alternative. I am sure the lawsuit was expensive and anymore of them could put them in a bind financially. I would think the owner/inventor would have negotiated $x/device royalty fee to keep the cash coming in and walk away with a victory.

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1172
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2017, 11:15 AM »
Obviously there are synergies for both companies or this deal wouldn't have happened.  Both are privately owned so no possibility of a hostile takeover.  It could be, and I think most likely, that SS will operate as a wholly owned subsidiary of Tooltechnic and it will be business as usual.  Maybe Dr. Gass decided it was time to hang it up and Mother Festool thought it would be a good idea to acquire their customer base and intellectual property.  It will be closing pretty fast, I would imagine it's a cash deal, but it could be quite some time before any changed filter down to our level. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, C18, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE with router and jig saw plates.  Sawstop contractor.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2017, 12:26 PM »
Isn't the track saw concept safer than a table saw to begin with , hence one of its appeals ?

How much xtra would guys be willing to pay for this mini brake ?  The pricing is likely to put off even the FT faithful.




Yes.

And at least $5,000 .   ::)

Point was ...................  not every idea needs to be bashed,  just because.

Seth

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1172
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2017, 12:31 PM »
mini brake would be totally unnecessary.  I have been using my TS55 for coming up on ten years without even a sniff of a chance to get hurt.  If someone did, they were doing something outside of it's operational intent and it would be Darwinism at work.   :o
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, C18, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE with router and jig saw plates.  Sawstop contractor.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6365
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2017, 12:45 PM »
I guess SawStop's owner knew the end was near when Bosch introduced their alternative. I am sure the lawsuit was expensive and anymore of them could put them in a bind financially.

Exactly...with Bosch challenging SawStop, Gass knew that they wouldn't be the last manufacturer and that others would follow, all of which meant that time was running out on patents and buckets of money were being spent on patent infringement litigation.

How many SawStops do you think needed to be sold just to pay for the last law suit?

So, Gass correctly surmised that now was the time that his IP had the highest $$$ value and so he decided to strike while the iron was hot. Meanwhile, Gass works out a deal for X number of years of royalty for each saw sold while TTS expands the market penetration and life becomes good again... [2cents] [2cents]

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2280
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2017, 02:00 PM »
And where is that mini brake going to mount, and how heavy is it going to be ?

And how much torque do you think it's gonna generate when it fires, and are you going to be able to hold on when it does ?

Possible , sure.  Practical ?  Me thinks not.
With that mindset you would have fit right in with the Automotive World as I knew it in the late 80's when I started. Esp. with Air Bags and SRS.  Not a dig, just an observation... [wink]
 We started with a Drivers Side Air Bag years ago, now they're all over the vehicle, and we have travel sensors in the seat tracks of front seats to show the position of the occupant so an SRS Module can decide which portion of the charge on the main air bags gets fired in a crash based on how far away that person is sitting from the Air Bag.
 Sitting under the passenger Occupancy Sensor Mat assembly on the R/F seat, we now have small electric fans coupled with a Peltier Effect Cooler to send Hot or Cold air through perforated seat material, AND, Massage Bladders on the Upper Seat Back, again with yet another air fan system sitting in the middle of that massage bladder system.  At the rear of the Front Headrests we have Screens for Rear Passenger Viewing, with Can Bus Wiring and Fiber Optic harnesses running through these seats to keep it all running and communicating with the vehicle.
 So, if someone wants to spend the R&D on it, I've learned they can get pretty creative at making things fit, even if it doesn't seem practical..... [smile]
  I amended my original post to include all of Festool's Saws since I should have listed them as such when I first posted.
 
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline Gator

  • Posts: 15
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2017, 07:31 PM »
I was working with my Saw Stop Industrial cabinet saw all day today, and thought my mind was playing tricks on me.. I kept seeing a light green "haze' developing in the side of the cabinet.. naw.. must just be my eyes.. [eek]  [tongue]
When you stop having fun, stop doing it !

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Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2017, 07:39 PM »
And where is that mini brake going to mount, and how heavy is it going to be ?

And how much torque do you think it's gonna generate when it fires, and are you going to be able to hold on when it does ?

Possible , sure.  Practical ?  Me thinks not.
With that mindset you would have fit right in with the Automotive World as I knew it in the late 80's when I started. Esp. with Air Bags and SRS.  Not a dig, just an observation... [wink]
 We started with a Drivers Side Air Bag years ago, now they're all over the vehicle, and we have travel sensors in the seat tracks of front seats to show the position of the occupant so an SRS Module can decide which portion of the charge on the main air bags gets fired in a crash based on how far away that person is sitting from the Air Bag.
 Sitting under the passenger Occupancy Sensor Mat assembly on the R/F seat, we now have small electric fans coupled with a Peltier Effect Cooler to send Hot or Cold air through perforated seat material, AND, Massage Bladders on the Upper Seat Back, again with yet another air fan system sitting in the middle of that massage bladder system.  At the rear of the Front Headrests we have Screens for Rear Passenger Viewing, with Can Bus Wiring and Fiber Optic harnesses running through these seats to keep it all running and communicating with the vehicle.
 So, if someone wants to spend the R&D on it, I've learned they can get pretty creative at making things fit, even if it doesn't seem practical..... [smile]
  I amended my original post to include all of Festool's Saws since I should have listed them as such when I first posted.

There was Ralph Nader and the Corvair.

Way before the US car maker's complaints about regulations, Volvo had invented the seat belt and had a roll cage.

Is there a moral or legal obligation to require people to protect themselves?
(With a car there is)

It is a bit bizarre to have our lives so precious that a hot coffee spill gets 1M$ settlement and on the other hand in the last week 340k new refugees were in the run in the Philippines.

And it is cheaper to have all saws made safe? Or to push that amount aside for the surgeons?

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2017, 10:32 PM »
"Is there a moral or legal obligation to require people to protect themselves?
(With a car there is)

It is a bit bizarre to have our lives so precious that a hot coffee spill gets 1M$ settlement and on the other hand in the last week 340k new refugees were in the run in the Philippines.

And it is cheaper to have all saws made safe? Or to push that amount aside for the surgeons? "



Not at all. caveat emptor, and personal responsibility play a part in this.  Who am I to tell you to not smoke cigarettes , despite overwhelming evidence to it shortening lifespans for the majority of people.   If you want to  ???????

Conversely , I don't want you telling me I need to have an explosive braking mechanism on my tablesaw because YOU think I many loose a digit.  It needs to be my choice.  I'm not infringing on your liberty - or - pocketbook by using saws without that feature.

The tort system , flawed as it is, still  allows for selling blazing hot coffee at my local establishment and without a warning in neon despite that award. 

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1986
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2017, 11:08 PM »
Who am I to tell you to not smoke cigarettes , despite overwhelming evidence to it shortening lifespans for the majority of people.   If you want to  ???????

I wish it still worked that way but when you are funding the medical care for the smoker then the entire dynamic changes. It's that liberty/security exchange at play. Saying much more would venture into political waters that are off limits here.
+1

Offline Huxleywood

  • Posts: 136
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2017, 04:58 AM »

It is a bit bizarre to have our lives so precious that a hot coffee spill gets 1M$ settlement and...

But that never happened, at least not in the Liebeck v McDonalds case.  It is almost a universal truism that anytime anyone cites that case they get the facts wrong, even back in 1994. 



I think this is an interesting acquisition, one I don't think I would ever have thought would occur.  It will be quite interesting to see how TTS uses the IP.  While I would love to see an ICS in cream and green with Festo Sawstop on the side I am guessing that won't happen. 

Offline Jesse Cloud

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  • Festooling at the end of a dirt road in New Mexico
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2017, 12:08 PM »
I can imagine synergy between the SS brake system and the CMS.  Maybe there's a path to getting a saw on the cms someday.

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 252
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2017, 02:37 PM »
My bet is that Tooltechnic will acquire a maker of format table saws and move back into the woodworking machinery market or develop a blade braking system that can be licensed to makers of such saws.   

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2280
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2017, 04:06 PM »

It is a bit bizarre to have our lives so precious that a hot coffee spill gets 1M$ settlement and...

But that never happened, at least not in the Liebeck v McDonalds case.  It is almost a universal truism that anytime anyone cites that case they get the facts wrong, even back in 1994. 



I think this is an interesting acquisition, one I don't think I would ever have thought would occur.  It will be quite interesting to see how TTS uses the IP.  While I would love to see an ICS in cream and green with Festo Sawstop on the side I am guessing that won't happen.
   You should look up the slightly later case in the 90's about BMW versus a woman who got scalded when her chronically overheating BMW blew the heater core and burned her.
 An aftermarket shop modified the coolant system incorrectly to stave off a repair that she couldn't afford if I remember right, and BMW got sued in the aftermath, which then generated a National Recall/Campaign for all the E-30 3 series still on the road...... [blink]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline Peter Durand

  • Posts: 197
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2017, 04:22 PM »
I am sooo glad I bought my SawStop Industrial when I did. I could not afford the green painted version, which I suspect will sell for a lot more.

Offline RussellS

  • Posts: 264
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2017, 04:46 PM »
My bet is that Tooltechnic will acquire a maker of format table saws and move back into the woodworking machinery market or develop a blade braking system that can be licensed to makers of such saws.

I sure hope that happens.  Yeah Yeah.  Not sure Tooltech will acquire a sliding table saw company.  Doubt they could finance anything like that.  That is like the minnow swallowing the whale.  But licensing it to Felder/Hammer, Minimax/SCMI, and several other European saw makers makes sense.  Improve the far superior European sliding table saw with the flesh detecting sensor.  Put all of the Chinese, Taiwanese, USA cabinet saw makers out of business in an instant.  Yeah.

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 158
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2017, 09:56 PM »
Just put the sawstop technology in the Kapex, and then when it blows up you can blame the user for sticking their finger in there! [eek]
"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do almost anything, with nothing at all."

Offline BoulderAv

  • Posts: 16
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2017, 03:39 AM »
SawStop could be a good fit for Festool's parent. There are a few tools that could use the tech and Festool might be the company that is right to work with. A radical arm saw with the tech would be huge as would a jointer with ir. My money would be on Festool's engineers to make such ideas possible (working with those of SawStop) to make those products. If I am the parent of Festool I am looking into buying or competing against a Felder or SCM.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1253
Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2017, 04:16 AM »
It would make a RAS safer and it sounds like a good application of the tech.

The dangers of a RAS are probably what led to it's demise as much the
introduction of the SCMS did.

Still have mine and keep a dado stack mounted in it for making dados or
half laps where precision is not needed. Way faster than a router.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?