Author Topic: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review  (Read 44754 times)

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Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« on: August 05, 2015, 09:22 AM »
I have owned and used a "Precisio CS 70 Trim Saw" for just over one year. In total I spent about 2,000 euros on this machine ($2,700 at the time of purchase).

In this review will I point out what I like and what I dislike about this machine and I will try to be as fair as possible.

PROS
Portable
Powerful enough
good looking
connects to festool vacuum
pull saw
pretty good dust collection

CONS
power switch broke, saw turned off and on at will (fixed it myself with a new part sent to me)
miter gauge fence is bowed
miter gauge bends when ripping
miter gauge does not sit on table at 90 degrees
design of miter gauge suggests precision cuts cannot be achieved (plastic parts, weak parts, poor engineerging)
does not accept most third part saw blades
miter track does not accept most or all third party track accessories
small table size on basic model
expensive, unfair price, in comparison to other machines in its class
expensive add-ons

SUMMARY
Because the miter gauge fence is a very flawed design, the machine cannot achieve accurate cuts. Therefore, it is very misleading to call this machine the "Precisio CS70". I believe this machine would be suitable for contractors who do not need to achieve high degrees of accuracy. For cabinet makers or furniture makers, this machine is terribly frustrating. I have a nobex miter saw that is far more precise than this machine at cutting miters, and the cost for it was only 250 euros with a fine replacement blade. For my intents and purposes this saw is largely unusable and must be replaced with a truly precision saw.

§

I am awaiting word from Festool in Germany as to whether or not they will take back this machine and let me replace it with other festool tools. I also own have a festool midi vacuum and a festool 1010 router. These are excellent machines. I am considering creating a video of the CS 70 in use to post on youtube so that other people know the degree of precision this saw is capable of.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 02:42 AM by MichaelW2014 »
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 686
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2015, 12:44 PM »
Have you had a chance to try out the competing Erika 70? I've heard great things about it, hoping to purchase some time later in 2015 or early 2016...
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5751
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2015, 02:35 PM »
I played with once just for a few hours. It seemed like a good saw to me. Only thing I didn't like was changing the blade

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6054
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2015, 02:46 PM »
Sorry to hear you have so much trouble with the miter gauge fence. I never have any problem with it myself and think it is great. I get very accurate cuts with it, and it is rock solid, nothing bendy.

I don't understand why you think it doesn't take 3rd party blades, any blade with a 30 mm arbor hole will fit (up to 215 mm size). I have a couple of non-festool blades for it, from DeWalt, Bosch and two no-name.

I do not like the bigger fence CS 70 LA though, and changing blades is indeed a chore. After you're done sawing, you need to clean it very thoroughly, or you'll keep on strewing dust around when you move it.

The saw is meant to be mobile though, so that means it is more aimed at contractors and carpenters. If you're a cabinet maker, I figure you'd be better off with a stationary saw.
 

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2015, 03:10 PM »
Have you had a chance to try out the competing Erika 70? I've heard great things about it, hoping to purchase some time later in 2015 or early 2016...

Never seen one in person. The Erika 80 looks intriguing. Actually, I wish i had bought that instead of the CS 70. It seems to be better built. Seems capable of precision. Not sure though.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2015, 03:14 PM »
I have no problem with blade changes--not fun, but not so bad. I didn't say you couldn't find replacement blades made by third party manufacturers. There simply are not so many of them.

The miter fence is complete garbage. And this renders the saw..., barely usable? I don't know. I just wish I had never bought the saw. I will have to get a proper saw as soon as I have the money, if festool cannot fix the problem. Probably, I will also file a complaint if the problem is not corrected. As I purchased the tool through amazon, I probably have a case to make in a claim for selling a faulty product. The way i see it, the saw is a faulty product, absolutely. 
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 686
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2015, 04:09 PM »
Have you had a chance to try out the competing Erika 70? I've heard great things about it, hoping to purchase some time later in 2015 or early 2016...

Never seen one in person. The Erika 80 looks intriguing. Actually, I wish i had bought that instead of the CS 70. It seems to be better built. Seems capable of precision. Not sure though.

Yes, I've never handled an Erika myself as they are exceedingly rare here. I'm looking at the Erika 70 mostly because it's available in 120V, the Erika 85 is only available in 240V here in North America. Best of luck to you!
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 04:33 PM by Tom Gensmer »
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 587
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2015, 04:33 PM »
My Erika 85 is being cleared through customs right now (poor thing). Ill post a review after I get to play around with it but suffice it to say Tom it is thousands of dollars cheaper to import it from Germany and since it has a universal motor that runs on 50-60hz your good to go here in the states.

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2015, 04:41 PM »
Have you had a chance to try out the competing Erika 70? I've heard great things about it, hoping to purchase some time later in 2015 or early 2016...

Never seen one in person. The Erika 80 looks intriguing. Actually, I wish i had bought that instead of the CS 70. It seems to be better built. Seems capable of precision. Not sure though.


Yes, I've never handled an Erika myself as they are exceedingly rare here. I'm looking at the Erika 70 mostly because it's available in 120V, the Erika 85 is only available in 240V here in North America. Best of luck to you!

good luck to you too!
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2015, 04:43 PM »
My Erika 85 is being cleared through customs right now (poor thing). Ill post a review after I get to play around with it but suffice it to say Tom it is thousands of dollars cheaper to import it from Germany and since it has a universal motor that runs on 50-60hz your good to go here in the states.

nice. hope you find it satisfactory. and hope it is dead accurate, given all the trouble and the cost of it. i look forward to your review.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline joinercp

  • Posts: 19
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2015, 04:50 PM »
My Erika 85 is being cleared through customs right now (poor thing). Ill post a review after I get to play around with it but suffice it to say Tom it is thousands of dollars cheaper to import it from Germany and since it has a universal motor that runs on 50-60hz your good to go here in the states.

nice. hope you find it satisfactory. and hope it is dead accurate, given all the trouble and the cost of it. i look forward to your review.

We use the CS70 within a workshop environment and are pleased with it overall although it certainly does have it's flaws :There is slop of about 1mm and the blade change should be simpler. Dust gets clogged when ripping material over 40mm.

  The Erika has been getting great reviews and is a better built machine but like the CS70 it shouldn't cost the price of a 3 phase sliding panel saw
Domino XL, Precisio CS70, CXS, C15
Mafell MT55, Mafell Kss400
Virutex Lipping Planer

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 686
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2015, 10:59 PM »

We use the CS70 within a workshop environment and are pleased with it overall although it certainly does have it's flaws :There is slop of about 1mm and the blade change should be simpler. Dust gets clogged when ripping material over 40mm.

  The Erika has been getting great reviews and is a better built machine but like the CS70 it shouldn't cost the price of a 3 phase sliding panel saw

Indeed! Here in North America the Erika saws retail for more than many Sawstop cabinet saws. I wish Festool would release the CS 50 in a 110v version, it is exactly the right size for my wants/needs....
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2015, 03:17 AM »
the miter fence is garbage. without a good miter fence, this machine is worthless as far as i am concerned.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline dutchie

  • Posts: 136
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2015, 04:39 PM »
the miter fence is garbage. without a good miter fence, this machine is worthless as far as i am concerned.
What exactly are you ripping with it? I never have any problems with it, but I don't try to rip big boards with it. For me I get repeatable accurate cuts to the same mm. By how much are they off with your saw? Or in other words, how accurate are you looking for? Perhaps you should look at fitting a Incra setup on your CS70? Something like this > http://www.fine-tools.com/incra-base-assembly.html

Also the Bosch GTS 10 XC gets a lot of good reviews and it has a fence which clamps on both sides of the table...oh and it's nearly half the price of the CS 70 (and made in Taiwan instead of Germany so that should explain most of the price difference).

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2015, 02:28 AM »
I am ripping small pieces of wood, nothing more than about 7cm thick. I have high quality blades on there by tenryu. i would say it's .25-1.5mm slop. that's just a guess. but also the angle of my miter fence is not 90 degrees with the table, so, the angle of my cuts is off. what degree of accuracy can you achieve on your saw? you have checked the angle of your miter fence with a reliable measuring tool?

I am going to put tape on the bottom of the miter fence to raise it up to 90 degrees.

Looks like neither my retailer nor Festool want to help me so I am just going to have to live with it for a couple of years. It sucks that the fence cannot be adjusted to "dial it in". it seems like the actual bar for the fence is a couple of mm too short. there is a plastic piece on the end of it touches the table when you clamp the miter to the table rail. this plastic piece might be a bit too big. i am not sure. it's either the plastic piece or the fence being too short. if i had a grinder i might try to grind down the plastic part. but i am nervous to do that because if that doesn't work then i am possibly in even more trouble.

i am seriously considering buying that incra attachment kit. i already have an LS25 so it is starting to make a lot of sense right now.
plus, my nobex miter saw gives me great cross grain cuts--so i don't really need the cs 70 for miter cuts. except on larger pieces of wood that require so much effort.

etc. thanks for your concern Dutchie

« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 02:33 AM by MichaelW2014 »
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."


Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2015, 05:19 AM »
there is info on this suggested thread for calibrating the angle positioning, but so far I cannot find info on how to calibrate the angle of the fence as it sits on the table.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline wrightwoodwork

  • Posts: 410
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2015, 05:52 AM »
Silly question is the blade 90 degrees to the table? Are you by any chance holding the work piece tight against the fence, instead of flat on the table. The table should be your reference point not the flat of the fence. 

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2015, 06:56 AM »
i'm just holding a carpenters square agains the fence and i see a triangular gap between the fence and the square. i use my feeler gauges and i get a .25mm feeler into the crevice.

i have tried tightening and loosening every bolt on the miter fence. nothing seems to work, at all. i have resorted to putting aluminum duct tape onto the bottom of my miter fence to move it up.

now i have already added two strips of this tape. the reading is .25mm. so i would have to add many more strips of tape to get it up to 0 (90 degrees).

"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline wrightwoodwork

  • Posts: 410
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2015, 07:55 AM »
Yes I get that the fence face is not square to the table. As long as the saw blade is 90 degrees to the table and the fence is 90 degrees to the table and you hold the work piece flat on the table and up against the fence you should get a square cut. The fence not being square off the table should not effect the cut unless you hold the work piece tight against the fence and lift it off the table. Without seeing what or how you're holding the work piece its a little hard to work out

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2015, 08:53 AM »
i'm not 100% sure what you are suggesting. are you saying i can just tilt the blade hmm. but tilt it to fill the incorrect angle of the fence, which is whatever constitutes a .25mm gap, possible?
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline wrightwoodwork

  • Posts: 410
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2015, 09:46 AM »
First of all forget about the fence is the blade 90 degrees to the table when set at 90. Is there any chance of posting some pictures of how you're holding the work piece to the table and fence or maybe a vid. Then maybe some of the the other members can point you in the right direction. My guess is you're using the fence face as your reference surface instead of the the table face of the saw and as it's not 100% correct its causing errors in your cut.  Is the table of the saw flat and not in twist. 

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2015, 10:10 AM »
First of all forget about the fence is the blade 90 degrees to the table when set at 90. Is there any chance of posting some pictures of how you're holding the work piece to the table and fence or maybe a vid. Then maybe some of the the other members can point you in the right direction. My guess is you're using the fence face as your reference surface instead of the the table face of the saw and as it's not 100% correct its causing errors in your cut.  Is the table of the saw flat and not in twist.

Yes, I can get the blade at 90 degrees to the table. I have a digital angle gauge that says the table is near flat at .1mm or so off from flat in some places. so i would say it is flat.

to determine if the fence is square or not to the table i use the table as my reference. i zero my digital angle gauge on the table. then i press it against the fence. the fence is screwy--i get a reading of "90.2" or "90.3".

i also use my shinwa carpenter's square to get a reading on the fence as it relates to the table. i rest the square on the table and butt it up against the fence, as you can see in the photo in my first post on this thread. next i use my feeler gauges to determine the size of the space between the bottom corner of the square the fence. i get a feeler gauge in the gap that is .25mm thick.

so, i am using the table as the reference. but after reading what you wrote i realize that it is not absolutely necessary that the fence be square with the table so long as it is evenly the same distance from the blade. or so i think is true.

i feel i need to get some high quality squares to double check my perception of this fence alignment. i don't trust my shinwa carpenters square.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline wrightwoodwork

  • Posts: 410
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2015, 10:35 AM »
Yep that's it

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2015, 11:04 AM »
hmmm, good point. thank you for expanding my mind. i am slowly getting my head around this. but, i still feel this situation is unresolved. because the fance is angled with an overhang type of angle, force could be restricting the movement of the wood when i pass it in a rip motion.

anyhow, i'm going to see how it works in a more controlled situation. thanks again for your help.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline Nigel

  • Posts: 641
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2015, 11:57 AM »
Basically it doesn't matter that the fence is not perfectly square to the table as long as it is nice and square to the blade, your work piece should rest flat on the table. The table or sliding table is the support not the fence which is the guide. I would also suggest forgetting feeler gauges and just use a good square or digital bevel to accurately calibrate you're fence.

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2015, 12:12 PM »
Basically it doesn't matter that the fence is not perfectly square to the table as long as it is nice and square to the blade, your work piece should rest flat on the table. The table or sliding table is the support not the fence which is the guide. I would also suggest forgetting feeler gauges and just use a good square or digital bevel to accurately calibrate you're fence.

i see, yes, the fence is not the support. but, the fence is angled as an overhang. so i am concerned that any pressure to keep the wood piece against fence will result in it being pushed into a wedge. this could restrict smoothness of travel down the table, in a rip action. so, i still believe it needs to be corrected. but, i definitely learned more about the geometry of working on a table saw. i learned more about my measuring tools too. i don't feel comfortable using the digital angle gauge. i need to watch some more videos on how to use them. i wonder how accurate it is. i think i would rather have a digital bevel as you suggest and a high quality square.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline aas

  • Posts: 123
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2015, 12:54 PM »
I have had my Elu site saw nearly 25 years now, looks pretty tatty now, and the fence has always lent in towards the blade at the top. I made a zero clearance MDF insert for the table, and of course for a rip saw, the most important two things are that the fence is parallel to the blade, and the blade is 90 degrees to the table - tape measure for the first and a square for the second. You don't need a fancy square - a CD case, anything 'engineered' should be 90 degrees - if the worst comes to it, fold a sheet of paper in half, then accurately in half again and you have 90 degrees. The thing is, the saw cuts beautifully clean and square!

Most tools are mass produced and they need a little adjusting or modifying to get right, or to get how you want them. Don't be nervous about taking a grinder to it if it needs it - you'll save yourself the stress of it all, and you'll end up being proud that you sorted it out!

Learn to modify things, make jigs, make templates, make table inserts, fences etc., and listen to the comments (esp wrightwoodwork - he knows his tools!)... and if all else fails, buy the Mafell - it's on my shopping list too!
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 01:55 PM by aas »

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2015, 04:39 PM »
I have had my Elu site saw nearly 25 years now, looks pretty tatty now, and the fence has always lent in towards the blade at the top. I made a zero clearance MDF insert for the table, and of course for a rip saw, the most important two things are that the fence is parallel to the blade, and the blade is 90 degrees to the table - tape measure for the first and a square for the second. You don't need a fancy square - a CD case, anything 'engineered' should be 90 degrees - if the worst comes to it, fold a sheet of paper in half, then accurately in half again and you have 90 degrees. The thing is, the saw cuts beautifully clean and square!

Most tools are mass produced and they need a little adjusting or modifying to get right, or to get how you want them. Don't be nervous about taking a grinder to it if it needs it - you'll save yourself the stress of it all, and you'll end up being proud that you sorted it out!

Learn to modify things, make jigs, make templates, make table inserts, fences etc., and listen to the comments (esp wrightwoodwork - he knows his tools!)... and if all else fails, buy the Mafell - it's on my shopping list too!

i hear you. thanks for the advise. i will do some more checks soon. btw ELU machines look great, just saw them for the first time.
§
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6054
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2015, 05:12 PM »
That was a sad day in Tool Town when Elu was absorbed by DeWalt.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Frank-Jan

  • Posts: 1043
  • Dutch Canadian living in Belgium
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2015, 05:53 PM »
That was a sad day in Tool Town when Elu was absorbed by DeWalt.

I actually have fond memories of that time... I got an elu cordless set with an 18 V hammerdrill and a reciprocating saw for 10,000.= Belgian francs (the reciprocating saw by itself was 18000 BEF at the time in yellow livery instead of the cooler dark grey and blue. [wink]

Only other elu tools I remember using was a soso palm sander and a flipsaw that was already quite worn and annoying (the elektra beckum we had at the same time was my favourite) (both got replaced by my first cs70)

Offline Frank-Jan

  • Posts: 1043
  • Dutch Canadian living in Belgium
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2015, 08:12 PM »
My first CS70 also had a fence that wasn't perpendicular to the table anymore, but in my case it slanted away from the blade; I was planning on sending it into service because it was having a few other problems (it was 8 years old, but it got stolen from a jobsite before I got to it).
I noticed it when I had to make a lot of thin rips, and was referencing of the fence instead of the table; later I worked around it by using wider material if I needed thin rips (If the stock is alreay thin; you can't reference of the table, because of the opening where the blade travels for pull-cuts).

I can see that in your case it is more annoying, even when setting the width. (if it slants away, you can just measure at the table, if it slants towards the blade, you'd have to measure at the thickness of your stock  (I don't remember by how much mine was off, but I'm guessing more than 0.25mm)

Does it make a difference if you use a different V-groove? (front or side)

The slot in the table is NOT a miterslot, but for clamping.

The accuracy has always been good enough for my needs, (I'm just a carpenter, not a cabinetmaker) I never had to calibrate the miterguage on my first saw. (which I had to do on my kapex after 6 months of use).

I also have a Nobex, I remember I really didn't like the accuracy when I needed to trim just a bit extra off an already cut miter. [wink]

If the fence bends when making ripcuts, you're putting too much pressure towards the fence (more than needed).  (I also have the ripfence that clamps at both sides, but rarely use it, because it's a hassle to switch from ripping to crosscutting)

I do feel that the build quality of my second CS70 is not up to par with the old one, I had to fix the leveling foot to keep it from turning inside the leg and thus lowering the saw; and at startup the blade shivers a bit (the cuts are still accurate, but if I install one of those green anti-splinterblocks, it will get damaged. And the free accessory, the transporting wheels were in a damaged box and one of them turns really hard (but hey, you can't look a given horse in the mouth)

(I wanted to send it back the week after I got it, because the festool rep would be at the dealer I got the saw from; but meanwhile my father managed to cut into the fence  [eek] and he  also tried to bevel the saw with a splinterblock installed I think, because there are teethmarks on the part you swivel up to change the blade; so the fact that the shivering was there from the factory became a lot less plausible)

As for the blade change, it takes a few more steps, but it looks a lot more comfortable than on a mafell erica. (Plenty of room, from above the table, and you can use a regular spanner on the arbornut aswell, in case it has gotten too stuck)



« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 08:17 PM by Frank-Jan »

Offline aas

  • Posts: 123
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2015, 02:19 AM »
That was a sad day in Tool Town when Elu was absorbed by DeWalt.
I still use my MOF177E as my daily router - awesome machine. What puts me off retiring is it (as I would like a bit more power) is I think I will be disappointed with the replacement.
I'm still use many of my Elu tools, purchased at the beginning of the '90s - and they were seriously expensive back then - much more than Festool equivalents now!.. none of them have ever broken down!

Offline jobsworth

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  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2015, 04:34 AM »
Hmmm interesting post Frank-Jan,

I try to set my fence up so the rear of the fence is farther away from the blade then the front of the fence not much maybe .003 to stop kick back.

But that was using a American style Fence that extends the length of the table and not the euro style which only goes to the rear of the blade.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 04:36 AM by jobsworth »

Offline wrightwoodwork

  • Posts: 410
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2015, 06:47 AM »
The idea of the fence going only to the back of the blade is, if you're ripping natural timbers when you cut them tension can be released un the timbers after the saw blade and if the fence is fixed after the blade solidly and the blade is also attached fixed point there is a chance of binding or a kick back. After the material has past the blade it is actually better to have no pinch points which can cause a danger to the user. The one thing you never really want to do when using and saw is trap the blade. So if you have a badly twisted or bowed piece of timber depending on which way you should place it up and towards the fence

Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2015, 07:00 AM »
Michael: I am surprised at your troubles with the CS70. I had one with all accessories for a couple of years and once set up it was very accurate and solid. Are you running the LA rip fence? It is a must have (I think) and it was only lack of space in my smaller work shop that caused me to sell the CS70. The projects I ran on that saw always came out great regardless of size timber or panel. Set up took a few hours but once set up all the add ons could be removed and reinserted with no loss of accuracy.

I always liked the Erica 70/85 but the weight puts me off a little - as it did with the CS70.

We have a large format saw at the larger shop so I didn't really need the CS70 (nor the Erika) and with all the bells and whistles it was too heavy for on site work. I replaced it with a Bosch XC10 which did a good job too - but I no longer have it, I don't haul that size saw around anymore. If I had a medium sized shop and could not fit a larger saw I would still be very happy with the CS70, and in a pinch, the XC10.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2015, 01:06 PM »

yes, very annoying that is slants toward the blade. as you say, it makes measuring difficult. i have to correct the problem if i want to do joinery or make bars for picture frames. etc. i have started to work on it. i just have to add height to the bottom of the fence itself.
i can do this with tape. it sounds bad, and it is, but i don't see a better way to do it. it's pathetic really to have to do this one a $2,500 machine. very upsetting.

It doesn't make a difference if i use a different v groove. Yes, the t track is for clamping. Clamps work well.
The nobex has really crappy plastic parts. But I don't use these parts. It is good where it counts most, on cutting precise miters. For me, I seem to be getting dead on miter cuts, very clean, no tear out. But the best manual miter saw, is, apparently, the langdon falls miter saw. You can find them on ebay. Lie Nielsen is considering making one. They have been talking about making one for two years. I will probably buy one eventually. I don't think machines, in my purchasing range, can cut miters as well as a high quality manual miter saw. (I would not buy a kapex unless I were a carpenter.)

Yes, it is possible i was putting too much pressure on the fence when ripping. I am just talking about the miter fence, not the LA rip fence add on, which I do not own.
 
I never received any free transporting wheels.  [unsure]

"but meanwhile my father managed to cut into the fence"  -haha that's a bummer. funny though.

the blade change does suck but I got used to it. i need a set of wrenches....
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline jobsworth

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  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2015, 01:08 PM »
I'm used to the euro style fence now. It's what I use on my CMS. I still have the rear of the fence about  mil out from the front.

Haven't had any issues with it.

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2015, 01:09 PM »
The idea of the fence going only to the back of the blade is, if you're ripping natural timbers when you cut them tension can be released un the timbers after the saw blade and if the fence is fixed after the blade solidly and the blade is also attached fixed point there is a chance of binding or a kick back. After the material has past the blade it is actually better to have no pinch points which can cause a danger to the user. The one thing you never really want to do when using and saw is trap the blade. So if you have a badly twisted or bowed piece of timber depending on which way you should place it up and towards the fence

hmmm, i didn't know this. thank you!





"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2015, 01:13 PM »
Michael: I am surprised at your troubles with the CS70. I had one with all accessories for a couple of years and once set up it was very accurate and solid. Are you running the LA rip fence? It is a must have (I think) and it was only lack of space in my smaller work shop that caused me to sell the CS70. The projects I ran on that saw always came out great regardless of size timber or panel. Set up took a few hours but once set up all the add ons could be removed and reinserted with no loss of accuracy.
f
I always liked the Erica 70/85 but the weight puts me off a little - as it did with the CS70.

We have a large format saw at the larger shop so I didn't really need the CS70 (nor the Erika) and with all the bells and whistles it was too heavy for on site work. I replaced it with a Bosch XC10 which did a good job too - but I no longer have it, I don't haul that size saw around anymore. If I had a medium sized shop and could not fit a larger saw I would still be very happy with the CS70, and in a pinch, the XC10.

i was surprised too. some of my issues might be related to myself being somewhat of a novice but there is no mistaking the fence being misaligned, which i think is horrendous and inexcusable for such an expensive tool.

btw, i mostly make picture frames and furniture. i just started to get into joinery. so small mistakes, small inaccuracies are often big problems to me.

that bosch gets a lot of talk. my friend has one too. waiting to hear how he likes it.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline Alex

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2015, 02:51 PM »
Michael, have you succeeded in contacting Festool germany already? Did they give you an answer?

If you have trouble with the fence, perhaps it could be solved if they send you a new one.

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2015, 06:07 AM »
Michael, have you succeeded in contacting Festool germany already? Did they give you an answer?

If you have trouble with the fence, perhaps it could be solved if they send you a new one.

Hi Alex. I am still trying to contact festool. so far my retailer and the local greek rep. have been resistent to helping me. my german retailer wants me to bring the machine to my technician, which i cannot do as i do not have a car nor a truck. and it is obvious that the problem is the fence so why must i bring the entire machine across the city?

or i can send it to germany festool hq. so neither is possible.

i sent a message to festool international on friday. hopefully they will get back to me soon. all i want is a new miter fence. hopefully the next one will be better. the actual fence part of the miter gauge is not tall enough, by about 2 mm.

thanks for your follow up alex. i appreciate it.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline rizzoa13

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2015, 06:24 AM »
Well i wouldn't just want to send you a new fence either if i were them. What if the fence isn't the actual problem what if its how the fence is mounting or something of that nature. It's only fair that if you want them to fix it you let them look at it. The issue may be obvious to you but haven't not seen it how can your festool rep know the issue?

How do you get around town with such an expensive machine? You must have some way of getting it places.

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2015, 11:52 AM »
Well i wouldn't just want to send you a new fence either if i were them. What if the fence isn't the actual problem what if its how the fence is mounting or something of that nature. It's only fair that if you want them to fix it you let them look at it. The issue may be obvious to you but haven't not seen it how can your festool rep know the issue?

How do you get around town with such an expensive machine? You must have some way of getting it places.

Yeah, ok, they have reason to be skeptical, but on the other hand, the technician agreed with me. And I think the tech should have come to my house and seen the machine in person. It's their responsibility to see that my machine works as it is supposed to--that is the deal we agreed to when i paid them $2,500 or whatnot.

i don't get around town with this machine. i don't own a car. i live in athens, we have a great metro system here. :)
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline Alex

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2015, 02:09 PM »
my german retailer wants me to bring the machine to my technician, which i cannot do as i do not have a car nor a truck. and it is obvious that the problem is the fence so why must i bring the entire machine across the city?

That saw is a €2000 investment, I strongly suggest you bring it in. It is logical that your Festool retailer wants to see the whole saw and not just the fence.

You don't have car, but Greece has public transport, right? I don't have a car either, I've taken the bus with my CS70. Heck, I've driven the CS70 with a cart behind my bicycle. Get a cab, or ask a neigbour to drive you. There are many ways to get around the "no car" problem.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 02:12 PM by Alex »

Offline Frank-Jan

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  • Dutch Canadian living in Belgium
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2015, 05:28 PM »
I don't think your problem can be fixed with just a new fence; when mine was off, it was off the same amount with the standard fence; my mft3 fence, and the CS70LA fence.

My guess was that the origin of the problem was the saw itself developped som kind of twist caused by lots of transport and not always being on an even surface. (Never found out though; and in your case the transport cannot be the issue  [wink])

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #47 on: August 11, 2015, 02:51 AM »
my german retailer wants me to bring the machine to my technician, which i cannot do as i do not have a car nor a truck. and it is obvious that the problem is the fence so why must i bring the entire machine across the city?

That saw is a €2000 investment, I strongly suggest you bring it in. It is logical that your Festool retailer wants to see the whole saw and not just the fence.

You don't have car, but Greece has public transport, right? I don't have a car either, I've taken the bus with my CS70. Heck, I've driven the CS70 with a cart behind my bicycle. Get a cab, or ask a neigbour to drive you. There are many ways to get around the "no car" problem.

Yes, yes, it must be sorted out. It seems like my rep is talking with festool and i think they are nearly willing to send me a new fence. Honestly, i can't take it on the metro. That would be too crazy, even for me. I have taken all kinds of ridiculous things on the metro, but this is too much. I don't have any friends to call on to move my saw for me in this city that is largely new to me.

You are more brave than me ("cart behind my bicycle")!
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline wrightwoodwork

  • Posts: 410
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #48 on: August 11, 2015, 04:11 AM »
Just a thought I not 100% sure how the fence mounts on the pressio saw as I don't have. I can't imagine it being that radically different to the erika. Is the surface that fence clamps to square. If not that might be your problem area

Offline Frank-Jan

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  • Dutch Canadian living in Belgium
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #49 on: August 11, 2015, 06:52 AM »
The cs70 has the same V-groove sideprofile as the cms and the mft3. (the upper part of the mft3  profile, so without the bottom T-slot)

(googled image, shows the cms and the mft)

(btw, I like your youtube videos about the mafell tools)


Offline MichaelW2014

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2015, 07:27 AM »
i'm not a fan of this v groove attachment type. seems to me that festool created this awkward system just to keep out competitors and force customers to buy more of their products (add-ons).
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1866
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #51 on: August 12, 2015, 09:10 AM »
i'm not a fan of this v groove attachment type. seems to me that festool created this awkward system just to keep out competitors and force customers to buy more of their products (add-ons).

I see it differently. The v-groove allows for quick and easy placement and removal of attachments and far better repeatability than a t-slot. Many users have come up with their own adaptations to the grooves that are quite ingenious. The v-grooves have been around for quite a long time on some of the tools, including the CS70, and were added to the MFT more recently. This has created more continuity and consistency to the product line, not less. As an example miter saw extensions can be attached to the router table or the MFT for support when you are working on long stock. Is this good for Festool? Sure, but it is good for us too.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Alex

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #52 on: August 12, 2015, 12:49 PM »
With the V-groove anything you add is laying directly on the table instead of hanging on the side. Makes more sense to me because the extension is now both supported and referenced by the table.   

Offline MichaelW2014

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #53 on: August 12, 2015, 03:54 PM »
from what i have seen, the attachment of the miter fence onto the v groove is sloppy. if it were precise then maybe i would feel differently about the v groove design. i'd bet it could be precise, but it isn't in my case. i like that you can attach the miter fence any part of the edge of the machine. but i don't like it at the cost of precision. i'd prefer a t-slot that borders the entire machine and accepts third party parts. that would be ideal.

i have also heard, from other users, that the rip fence for the cs 70 is crappy, difficult to adjust. if the outer attachment slot had incremental stop positions then it would be awesome.

so the third negative is that it is not a universal system. sure, you can always figure out a way to build you own add-ons, but i am not a machinist and i don't want to spend my time building tools, or paying to have them built, unless absolutely necessary. incra has a beautifully designed t-track system and fence with incredible repositioning actions. the v groove is nothing close to this despite the probably enormous manufacturing capabilities of Festool. The CS 70 kind of seems like an after thought. They can probably afford to make the most precise and intelligent mini table saw. Why don't they?

so i'm really not impressed with the design of the v groove. it's not so intelligent. maybe it needs another few evolutionary steps to get it to it's full potential--it seems half-baked to me.

i can't comment on other aspects of the v-groove system.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 12:46 AM by MichaelW2014 »
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline DJW

  • Posts: 11
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #54 on: August 12, 2015, 06:13 PM »
I don't understand why everyone hates the rip fence. It works great in my opinion, big knob sets it parallel to the blade, lever locks it front and back, with a simple but effective micro adjust, plus the sub fence which can be brought forward for rips in timber. Easy, accurate and solid.

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1866
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #55 on: August 12, 2015, 06:24 PM »
I don't understand why everyone hates the rip fence. It works great in my opinion, big knob sets it parallel to the blade, lever locks it front and back, with a simple but effective micro adjust, plus the sub fence which can be brought forward for rips in timber. Easy, accurate and solid.

 You just described how mine works.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Frank-Jan

  • Posts: 1043
  • Dutch Canadian living in Belgium
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #56 on: August 12, 2015, 07:51 PM »
I don't hate the ripfence, I used it extensively this afternoon when cutting rebates.

I rarely use it because it's a bit of a hassle to mount and take off.
With the V-groove and the coarse thread on the knob you can quickly install  and reïnstall the standard fence to switch from ripping to crosscutting.

Due to the micro-adjust, you have to slide the ripfence in from the side (extra hassle if the sidetable is installed) The extra long auxiliary fence on it is nice, but if you don't have the rear extension installed, (so the blade is in the middle position for ripping) and you don't want it extending past the center of the blade, it sticks out quite a bit towards you.

A lot of people say the standard fence is "crap, garbage,etc." and the CSLA is a musthave; because you can bend the standard fence out of allignment if you push hard enough. But... in most cases you don't need to push that hard towards the fence, just guide it smoothly along.

If I'm ripping stuff that's a bit unwieldy I'm glad I have CSLA; but the microadjust isn't so usefull that I would install the CSLA if I didn't need the extra sturdyness. (It's not like the precision of a rack and pinion adjust as on a stationary saw, more like the microadjust on the edgeguide for the routers)

I want to add a paragraph about what else I like about the system with the V-groove, but I'm way too tired and it's way past my bedtime.

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2015, 12:55 AM »
I think I am going to buy the rip fence CS LA. Maybe I will be able to make intricate cuts on small pieces of wood for picture frames. Any comments on this, please?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 02:48 AM by MichaelW2014 »
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6054
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #58 on: August 13, 2015, 04:25 AM »
I don't hate the rip fence, but it does have its flaws in my opinion. One knob to lock it in front and back, that's the theory, but when I do that, mine isn't straight. I always have to make sure both the front and back are aligned properly. When I tighten the knob, I can see the fence move slightly under the pressure. Maybe my fence has developed a flaw over time others don't have. It has been used by a contractor in its previous life.

I found the micro adjust totally unnecessary and interfere with smooth operation of the fence so I removed it completely.

I always go for the standard fence if I can because it works great for me, but when I really need the rip fence I use it without hesitation. Just remember to align it thoroughly and off I go.

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #59 on: August 13, 2015, 05:03 AM »
"but when I do that, mine isn't straight." Eh, yuck. Now I am totally put off on the fence.

If we all could agree on some of the fundamental problems with the fence(s) then we could sign a petition or some kind of letter that we could jointly send to Festool to let them know we want a better fence for the CS machines. They might actually take notice.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 05:29 AM by MichaelW2014 »
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline dutchie

  • Posts: 136
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #60 on: August 13, 2015, 06:36 AM »
"but when I do that, mine isn't straight." Eh, yuck. Now I am totally put off on the fence.

If we all could agree on some of the fundamental problems with the fence(s) then we could sign a petition or some kind of letter that we could jointly send to Festool to let them know we want a better fence for the CS machines. They might actually take notice.
As far as I know the only 'self squaring' fences on mobile table saws are the Bosch GTS 10 XC and Dewalt DW745 (and some other DeWalt models with the same rack and pinion system)...

But as said here before as long as the fence is parallel to the blade and you only use it as a guide and not bent it out of place it should work just fine...

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Offline DJW

  • Posts: 11
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #61 on: August 13, 2015, 06:41 AM »
 One knob to lock it in front and back, that's the theory, but when I do that, mine isn't straight.
[/quote]

With mine its a two knob job. I tighten the large knob which locks the fence at the front only, this pulls the fence square so it often does visibly move. Then turn the lever to lock the fence front and back.
If you just use the lever it will lock it on the  every time.

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #62 on: August 13, 2015, 06:47 AM »
it sounds like when you try to adjust the rip fence to make it straight it moves. this means you cannot make repeated cuts of a certain size after you move the fence. this seems to be a bad design for anyone who needs precision.

in my case, the miter fence cannot be adjusted to make it square with the table.






"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #63 on: August 13, 2015, 07:32 AM »
Festool has requested more proof of the problem with my miter fence. I took these images today.


Here you see there is 2mm+ of feeler gauges under the fence.


"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline wrightwoodwork

  • Posts: 410
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2015, 08:48 AM »
You would properly have being better keeping the square flat on the table of the saw then placing the feeler guage against the side fence down the bottom as I guess thats where the gap will be. The fence being 2mm off the table isn't really an issue its more the fence over hang in the head area. If the fence was tight down then it would be tight to turn around as would scrape on on the table.      A smaller gap would be nice though. I did check the fence on the erika for square off the table and it just a fraction leans back maybe .5mm so a tiny gap at the top and is .5mm off the table all I know is that when I set to rip 182mm then if I check it will be on the area of the black line on my rule at 182 mm. Then I can move the fence to another size then move back and it will accurate as humanly possible

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2015, 09:12 AM »
Festool has requested more proof of the problem with my miter fence. I took these images today.


Here you see there is 2mm+ of feeler gauges under the fence.

It seem that it would be easier if it leaned away as then all thinknesses would cut the same.

I think you have 4 choices:
1/2) Leave it as is:
 - And love it
 - And sell it
3/4) Get it fixed:
 - And love it
 - And sell it

I would think getting it fixed seems like the basis of the optimum approach.

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2015, 01:12 PM »
You would properly have being better keeping the square flat on the table of the saw then placing the feeler guage against the side fence down the bottom as I guess thats where the gap will be. The fence being 2mm off the table isn't really an issue its more the fence over hang in the head area. If the fence was tight down then it would be tight to turn around as would scrape on on the table.      A smaller gap would be nice though. I did check the fence on the erika for square off the table and it just a fraction leans back maybe .5mm so a tiny gap at the top and is .5mm off the table all I know is that when I set to rip 182mm then if I check it will be on the area of the black line on my rule at 182 mm. Then I can move the fence to another size then move back and it will accurate as humanly possible
@wrightwoodwork
Oh hey, that's not what i was trying to show. I was trying to show that the fence is square to the table when it is 2mm+ taller. In other words, the fence is too short and this is why it leans over toward the blade you could say.

If my fence leaned backward, as yours does, at least it would be easy to figure out the distance of the blade from the fence. in my case, this is difficult and an estimate is probably my best option. As my main interest in furniture making, which requires intricate joinery, as well as picture frame making, which also requires precision, getting out the slop in always important and often necessary.

As i do not yet own a jointer/thicknesser-which might allow me to make micro adjustments to my cuts-my table saw cuts are even more so important.
§
Sorry to hear the fence for your Erika is not dead on. Join the club? :)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 01:19 PM by MichaelW2014 »
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #67 on: August 13, 2015, 01:16 PM »
Festool has requested more proof of the problem with my miter fence. I took these images today.


Here you see there is 2mm+ of feeler gauges under the fence.

It seem that it would be easier if it leaned away as then all thinknesses would cut the same.

I think you have 4 choices:
1/2) Leave it as is:
 - And love it
 - And sell it
3/4) Get it fixed:
 - And love it
 - And sell it

I would think getting it fixed seems like the basis of the optimum approach.

I was wondering when you were going to show up on this thread. :) Thanks for chopping it up into nice parts for me. Yeah, get if fixed and love it is my first choice right now. I really need to love it because I won't be able to replace it for 1-2 years. Plus, I think it might be difficult to sell because I live in Greece.
§
I am hoping that Festool will finally give in and give me a fair deal on this problem with a replacement miter fence.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #68 on: August 13, 2015, 01:20 PM »
You would properly have being better keeping the square flat on the table of the saw then placing the feeler guage against the side fence down the bottom as I guess thats where the gap will be. The fence being 2mm off the table isn't really an issue its more the fence over hang in the head area. If the fence was tight down then it would be tight to turn around as would scrape on on the table.      A smaller gap would be nice though. I did check the fence on the erika for square off the table and it just a fraction leans back maybe .5mm so a tiny gap at the top and is .5mm off the table all I know is that when I set to rip 182mm then if I check it will be on the area of the black line on my rule at 182 mm. Then I can move the fence to another size then move back and it will accurate as humanly possible

I wonder how accurate the fence on the hammer K3 is. Or, especially, the fence on the inca table saws (but I suppose you can fit your own miter on those because they have t-tracks (correct me if i am wrong)).
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline wrightwoodwork

  • Posts: 410
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #69 on: August 13, 2015, 01:53 PM »
Little question for you the part that the aluminium fence clamps to when you take it off, is that square. If that part of the fence isn't square it might cause the issue that the fence clamps onto not the actual fence being short in height. A mate has the hammer not sure the model the rip fence is solid as would expect yet it had no rack and pinion or fine adjustment. Which is always handy to have. Just curious as you don't have a planer do you use hand planes to get the timber smooth straight and square or is it all done with the sanders

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #70 on: August 13, 2015, 06:15 PM »
[.
...

I was wondering when you were going to show up on this thread. :) Thanks for chopping it up into nice parts for me. Yeah, get if fixed and love it is my first choice right now. I really need to love it because I won't be able to replace it for 1-2 years. Plus, I think it might be difficult to sell because I live in Greece.
§
I am hoping that Festool will finally give in and give me a fair deal on this problem with a replacement miter fence.
[/quote]

If they (Festool) want it in their hands in order to fix it, then you either need to hire a van or a courier company to move it to them.
Once it is fixed then you can determine whether it is "fit for task" for your needs.

You can always sell it at some point if it still gives you grief.

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #71 on: August 14, 2015, 02:14 AM »
[.
...

I was wondering when you were going to show up on this thread. :) Thanks for chopping it up into nice parts for me. Yeah, get if fixed and love it is my first choice right now. I really need to love it because I won't be able to replace it for 1-2 years. Plus, I think it might be difficult to sell because I live in Greece.
§
I am hoping that Festool will finally give in and give me a fair deal on this problem with a replacement miter fence.

If they (Festool) want it in their hands in order to fix it, then you either need to hire a van or a courier company to move it to them.
Once it is fixed then you can determine whether it is "fit for task" for your needs.

You can always sell it at some point if it still gives you grief.
[/quote]

yeah, but i am trying to avoid this. and the regional festool technician has agreed with me that the fence needs to be replaced. it's hard for me to get things done in this country, which are simple tasks back in the US.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #72 on: August 14, 2015, 02:23 AM »
Little question for you the part that the aluminium fence clamps to when you take it off, is that square. If that part of the fence isn't square it might cause the issue that the fence clamps onto not the actual fence being short in height. A mate has the hammer not sure the model the rip fence is solid as would expect yet it had no rack and pinion or fine adjustment. Which is always handy to have. Just curious as you don't have a planer do you use hand planes to get the timber smooth straight and square or is it all done with the sanders

I have not looked into whether the v groove slot is square. i would have to think about how to go about doing that. i assume it is square because my fence seems to have the same problem on all sides of the table.
§
i get my wood planed by the people who usually sell the wood to me. but they usually do a very mediocre job which drives me totally  bonkers. not having a planer is the bane of my woodworking existence at this point. i am unwilling to buy a crappy machine so i have to deal with these sloppy wood dealers and take what they give me. it's a long story. greeks are not perfectionists. there is only one greek perfectionist who works with wood, who i am aware of. this anomaly is a friend but he doesn't yet have a jointer/planer and if he did, he lives very far away and also i wouldn't want to trouble him too much. etc

i have a hand plane by lie nielsen but i gave up on trying to master the craft of squaring timber in this manner. i really don't like doing it.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline wrightwoodwork

  • Posts: 410
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #73 on: August 14, 2015, 06:31 AM »
I'm not meaning the v groove on the side of table more this part not sure if similar idea to the erika. Here is a couple of pics to get van idea of the area

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1866
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #74 on: August 14, 2015, 10:19 AM »
There is definitely something wrong with you miter fence. Mine sits right on the table with no gap and it is square to the table within.1mm which is of no consequence to me. In fact, I cannot tighten the clamp under the v groove to force a gap even if I am trying. By the time it is tight the fence is in contact with the table. I can the adjust for width of cut and, while the fence is still touching the table it is not difficult to move and tightens in place easily.

I do have the csla fence and find it very accurate. Like Alex, I have disabled the fine adjuster as I could not get used to it. YMMV. I do like being able to slide the fence toward me and rip in the 'Euro' manner which, of course, could also be done with the miter fence when used for ripping.

It would be nice if you could locate another miter fence for comparison but it seems like they may be rare in your region. Perhaps your representative could arrange for one to be sent for comparison and if it is right you could exchange.

I went back to the original post and noticed you said the fence was bowed. I would check the fence extrusion against a known straightedge. If your fence is sitting 2mm off the table something must be forcing out of alignment. This is a case where Festool needs to step up and help you.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #75 on: August 14, 2015, 10:45 AM »
There is definitely something wrong with you miter fence. Mine sits right on the table with no gap and it is square to the table within.1mm which is of no consequence to me. In fact, I cannot tighten the clamp under the v groove to force a gap even if I am trying. By the time it is tight the fence is in contact with the table. I can the adjust for width of cut and, while the fence is still touching the table it is not difficult to move and tightens in place easily.

I do have the csla fence and find it very accurate. Like Alex, I have disabled the fine adjuster as I could not get used to it. YMMV. I do like being able to slide the fence toward me and rip in the 'Euro' manner which, of course, could also be done with the miter fence when used for ripping.

It would be nice if you could locate another miter fence for comparison but it seems like they may be rare in your region. Perhaps your representative could arrange for one to be sent for comparison and if it is right you could exchange.

I went back to the original post and noticed you said the fence was bowed. I would check the fence extrusion against a known straightedge. If your fence is sitting 2mm off the table something must be forcing out of alignment. This is a case where Festool needs to step up and help you.

Sorry for the confusion. The fence does not sit 2mm off the table, as indicated in the photo. When the fence is tightened to the v groove it sits flat on the table. But it sits flat on the table with a forward slant. The reason why it slants forward is because the fence part of the miter fence is 2mm too short. it needs to be taller in order for the fence part of the miter fence to sit at 90 degrees.

Well, unfortunately a comparison is not possible, but i am waiting to see how they respond to this latest series of photos. i hope they understand my problem and are not confused as you were.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #76 on: August 14, 2015, 10:48 AM »
I'm not meaning the v groove on the side of table more this part not sure if similar idea to the erika. Here is a couple of pics to get van idea of the area

Ah, yes, I see what you mean now. I have not test that part to see if it is square. But there is some play in this slot when one can move the fence up and down slightly before tightening it so that, in theory, it could sit higher or lower, causing less of a slat. I have tried to get this to happen but was unable to achieve any definite positive results.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #77 on: August 18, 2015, 10:45 AM »
festool refuses to honor warranty despite sending pictures which fairly obviously show defect in miter fence.

No reply for my message to festool international which i sent over a week ago.

Deeply disatisfied with tool and with customer service.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #78 on: August 18, 2015, 05:07 PM »
A non-working saw seems like it is of little to no use.

I know that there are cabs/taxis in Greece, and moving trucks., or you need to buy the fence outright.
If it was the first 30 days you would have been fine, but at this point you've waited too long.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6054
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #79 on: August 18, 2015, 07:31 PM »
festool refuses to honor warranty despite sending pictures which fairly obviously show defect in miter fence.

Since you say you've send pictures I assume you still didn't give them the opportunity to look at the saw themselves?

Seems to me in this case it's only logical for them to refuse any warranty repair. It is normal they only honour a warranty repair after their own qualified service personel had a look.

Michael, do yourself a favour, bring them the saw.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #80 on: August 18, 2015, 08:15 PM »
Michael,

I have read all your posts regarding this and as Alex said you need to find a way to get the saw back to Festool.  I know from reading your posts that it will be inconvenient for you but sometimes that kind of stuff happens in life.

Until you do that you are not going to be happy, shaming Festool on an internet forum into making an exception to their policies probably isn't going to work, and you will still not be able to use the saw in the manner that you hoped to.

Peter 

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #81 on: August 19, 2015, 02:22 AM »
Gentlemen, thank you for your concern, I really appreciate it. You are right, the saw needs to be seen by a tech if this is their policy. But, they should come to me, and their own tech here in athens declared it is obvious that it needs to be replaced or repaired. I have this in writing via email.

Nonetheless, my retailer relinquished the email address for her colleague at festool. Yesterday I emailed him directly. My email was forwarded to another person who wrote me a long and considerate letter. I have attached it below. I want to be fair about this situation. All I want is a tool that does what it is supposed to do. A fence that sits at exactly 90 degrees with the table is an obvious requirement for a table saw, in my opinion, especially at the price I paid ($2,400).

So, they are going to take care of the situation by replacing the entire machine. It seems they will "probably" pay for shipping; but I await finally word on that today.   ;)
 
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #82 on: August 19, 2015, 02:23 AM »
Dear Mr. Rowan Wood,
 
First of all I want to apologize for the long handling time in that case.
Unfortunately I have no contact data than your e-mail address.
Otherwise I would have contacted you personally.
We know that this is an unsatisfactory situation for you.
I think that we had a communication problem and misunderstood each other.
 
We did an analysis to understand your problem with the CS 70 here in our factory where we produce the saws.
Probably your machine is affected with an machining error, which causes your mentioned gaps.
However to be sure it is necessary to have the affected CS 70 incl. fence in our workshop. In order to keep you workable quick we created the following offer.
 
Our proposal 1:
We will send you a brand new CS 70, which is checked by the quality department in detail, so you can go on with your working.
However you will receive an invoice for the new CS 70.
Afterwards it would be great, if you will send the affected CS 70 incl. fence to my hands for further analysis.
After receiving the affected CS 70 you will get credit advice, so there is no disadvantage for you.
 
Proposal 2:
You will send the affected CS 70 incl. fence to my hands.
After receiving the affected CS 70, we will send you a brand new CS 70, which is checked by the quality department in detail, so you can go on with your working.
 
After checking the affected machine, we will appreciate your effort in that case (sending the machine to Germany) e.g. with consumable material.
Probably it is also possible to handle the transportation with our DHL-account. I will check this tomorrow.
 
Did you already register your affected machine?
If yes, we will organize the re-registration to your new CS 70, so you will have no other problems with that.
 
I hope that my clarification above helps you to understand, that your concern is very important to us and we are willing to help you.
 
If you have any questions do not hesitate to contact me.
 
 
Kind regards
 
David Kiel
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #83 on: August 19, 2015, 03:14 AM »
Sounds like they are taking care of you and the situation

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #84 on: August 19, 2015, 03:59 AM »

Until you do that you are not going to be happy, shaming Festool on an internet forum into making an exception to their policies probably isn't going to work, and you will still not be able to use the saw in the manner that you hoped to.


If someone has reason to shame a company then the company should be shamed. My customers are rarely displeased with my service because I give them exactly what they pay for. When a company deceives it's customer or fails to make good on an agreement, then they should be shamed, and more.

I bought a saw. The saw does not do what it should do. It is their responsibility to make sure that this saw does what I paid for. If it doesn't, then seller has violated the terms of the sale. If it doesn't, then it is not an arm's length transaction.

All within reason, yes, but when something is obvious, then there should not be a two month struggle, or whatnot.

I say this with all due respect, Peter. I am frustrated and distressed by this situation. I don't have much patience left for Festool. I think they dropped the ball on me. I don't like being treated like this by big companies. I love that the internet revolution has put more power in the hands of customers.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 04:09 AM by MichaelW2014 »
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #85 on: August 19, 2015, 04:06 AM »
Sounds like they are taking care of you and the situation

I'm cautiously optimistic. But about twenty minutes ago I received a message from another person at festool who offers a different course of action, much less friendly and one which could lead to further problems, thus turning this two or three month contention into a much longer struggle for 90 degrees. Obviously if i were a rich man i would just buy a new miter fence and hope it works.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline Big G

  • Posts: 43
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #86 on: August 19, 2015, 05:20 AM »
Festool has requested more proof of the problem with my miter fence. I took these images today.


Here you see there is 2mm+ of feeler gauges under the fence.
(Attachment Link)

You have to lift a 300mm triangular square by 2mm to make it perpendicular to your fence which roughly relates to the fence being about 1/3 mm out top to bottom, no wonder Festool refuse to replace it, it is well inside the requires tolerances of a guide fence. By the way I need a 6mm packer to get mine perpendicular and I have never experienced any problems in ripping something to size.

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 587
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #87 on: August 19, 2015, 05:23 AM »
If you acted a little less entitled then people (in general) would be more inclined to help you. Your acting like a child by trying to bad mouth a company on the Internet while simultaneously stating "they should come to me." You were able to get the saw home when you bought it so your perfectly capable of figuring out a way to get it back to them. Try being a little more human it'll get you far in life.

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #88 on: August 19, 2015, 06:03 AM »
Festool has requested more proof of the problem with my miter fence. I took these images today.


Here you see there is 2mm+ of feeler gauges under the fence.
(Attachment Link)

You have to lift a 300mm triangular square by 2mm to make it perpendicular to your fence which roughly relates to the fence being about 1/3 mm out top to bottom, no wonder Festool refuse to replace it, it is well inside the requires tolerances of a guide fence. By the way I need a 6mm packer to get mine perpendicular and I have never experienced any problems in ripping something to size.

If you think that is ok for a 2,000E machine then I wonder what kind of work you make. That is not acceptable for me.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #89 on: August 19, 2015, 06:07 AM »
If you acted a little less entitled then people (in general) would be more inclined to help you. Your acting like a child by trying to bad mouth a company on the Internet while simultaneously stating "they should come to me." You were able to get the saw home when you bought it so your perfectly capable of figuring out a way to get it back to them. Try being a little more human it'll get you far in life.

I have been honest, human and fair. I have tried to be reasonable while at same time standing up for what I believe is right. I am not acting entitled and I think that your perception is wrong. Maybe you are so accustomed to getting reamed by companies that you no longer see it as a bad thing. You think that is the norm, and you accept it/like it.

 am not going to repeat myself again on this subject and explain and defend my position once again. I have a fence that is not right. I bought a machine that is supposed to be accurate. I didn't get what I paid for. Whose fault is that?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 06:23 AM by MichaelW2014 »
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #90 on: August 19, 2015, 06:30 AM »
If you acted a little less entitled then people (in general) would be more inclined to help you. Your acting like a child by trying to bad mouth a company on the Internet while simultaneously stating "they should come to me." You were able to get the saw home when you bought it so your perfectly capable of figuring out a way to get it back to them. Try being a little more human it'll get you far in life.
also, this thing is blown way out of proportion because they dropped the ball. they should have just sent me a new miter fence and called it a day. hopefully it would've been 90 degrees and in turn this thread would have been much shorter. how much would that have cost them, 20 euros (including shipping)? I don't know, not very much.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 06:46 AM by MichaelW2014 »
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #91 on: August 19, 2015, 06:32 AM »
All roads lead to Rome, but they may not send a tech to Athens.
Just imagine if you were in Australia.

At least they gave you a couple of options. That is a good start.

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #92 on: August 19, 2015, 06:44 AM »
All roads lead to Rome, but they may not send a tech to Athens.
Just imagine if you were in Australia.

At least they gave you a couple of options. That is a good start.
:)
I feel pretty confident it will get sorted out, one way or another. Lessons learned.

I am very grateful to the community here and all who have offered their advice, input and opinion. This website/forum is very important to me.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 06:47 AM by MichaelW2014 »
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline Big G

  • Posts: 43
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #93 on: August 19, 2015, 06:59 AM »
Festool has requested more proof of the problem with my miter fence. I took these images today.


Here you see there is 2mm+ of feeler gauges under the fence.
(Attachment Link)

You have to lift a 300mm triangular square by 2mm to make it perpendicular to your fence which roughly relates to the fence being about 1/3 mm out top to bottom, no wonder Festool refuse to replace it, it is well inside the requires tolerances of a guide fence. By the way I need a 6mm packer to get mine perpendicular and I have never experienced any problems in ripping something to size.

If you think that is ok for a 2,000E machine then I wonder what kind of work you make. That is not acceptable for me.

The CS 70 is only really suitable for out site or temporarily shop based due to the limitations of a 70mm underpowered cutting capacity.
It cuts 50mm timbers quite well, but is really suitable for roughing down trimming timbers, flooring etc which can then be sized either by hand or through a planer : thickener.
I have 30 odd years in joinery manufacturing so cutting timbers to 1 or 2 mm tolerances is the norm so please tell me what you do with a roughing saw that requires accuracy of better than 1/3 of a millimetre


Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #94 on: August 19, 2015, 07:06 AM »
Festool has requested more proof of the problem with my miter fence. I took these images today.


Here you see there is 2mm+ of feeler gauges under the fence.
(Attachment Link)

You have to lift a 300mm triangular square by 2mm to make it perpendicular to your fence which roughly relates to the fence being about 1/3 mm out top to bottom, no wonder Festool refuse to replace it, it is well inside the requires tolerances of a guide fence. By the way I need a 6mm packer to get mine perpendicular and I have never experienced any problems in ripping something to size.

If you think that is ok for a 2,000E machine then I wonder what kind of work you make. That is not acceptable for me.

The CS 70 is only really suitable for out site or temporarily shop based due to the limitations of a 70mm underpowered cutting capacity.
It cuts 50mm timbers quite well, but is really suitable for roughing down trimming timbers, flooring etc which can then be sized either by hand or through a planer : thickener.
I have 30 odd years in joinery manufacturing so cutting timbers to 1 or 2 mm tolerances is the norm so please tell me what you do with a roughing saw that requires accuracy of better than 1/3 of a millimetre

Ok. We have a difference of opinion. That's all. No hard feelings. I am not a builder. I make picture frames and furniture. I need precision. That is what i expected when i bought my machine. I am repeating myself a lot. I don't think I am being unrealistic by asking for a fence that is exactly 90 degrees. I think that is reasonable. That's all man.

I would rather be picking your mind on how to do things than arguing with you about what is right in this situation. I am sorry to bring this stress.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 07:44 AM by MichaelW2014 »
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline Big G

  • Posts: 43
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #95 on: August 19, 2015, 09:08 AM »
Festool has requested more proof of the problem with my miter fence. I took these images today.


Here you see there is 2mm+ of feeler gauges under the fence.
(Attachment Link)

You have to lift a 300mm triangular square by 2mm to make it perpendicular to your fence which roughly relates to the fence being about 1/3 mm out top to bottom, no wonder Festool refuse to replace it, it is well inside the requires tolerances of a guide fence. By the way I need a 6mm packer to get mine perpendicular and I have never experienced any problems in ripping something to size.

If you think that is ok for a 2,000E machine then I wonder what kind of work you make. That is not acceptable for me.

The CS 70 is only really suitable for out site or temporarily shop based due to the limitations of a 70mm underpowered cutting capacity.
It cuts 50mm timbers quite well, but is really suitable for roughing down trimming timbers, flooring etc which can then be sized either by hand or through a planer : thickener.
I have 30 odd years in joinery manufacturing so cutting timbers to 1 or 2 mm tolerances is the norm so please tell me what you do with a roughing saw that requires accuracy of better than 1/3 of a millimetre

Ok. We have a difference of opinion. That's all. No hard feelings. I am not a builder. I make picture frames and furniture. I need precision. That is what i expected when i bought my machine. I am repeating myself a lot. I don't think I am being unrealistic by asking for a fence that is exactly 90 degrees. I think that is reasonable. That's all man.

I would rather be picking your mind on how to do things than arguing with you about what is right in this situation. I am sorry to bring this stress.

Not arguing just commenting on what is classed as acceptable tolerances, still dont see how you need accuracy beyond 1/3 mm for picture framing.
I cut timber for making mouldings similar to picture frame sizes but use them to do built up plinth and architrave profiles but I use a different set up than you, band saw, planer, thickener and finally spindal moulder to build the detailing, personally I think you have the wrong saw for fine work as what you have is a carpenters, joiners saw.

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #96 on: August 19, 2015, 09:45 AM »
1/3mm is the distance between the square and the fence where there is a gap. Let's neither misrepresent, minimize nor confuse it with the outcome of cutting wood on this machine, which varies depending on how you measure the distance between the blade and the fence, the size of the wood and how big it is once cut. I cannot say it is this or that, but 1/3 is the gap, not the outcome. 2.25-2.75mm is the amount to which the fence needs to be raised in order for the square to be flush against both the fence and the table.

Picture frames need to be perfect. People look closely at them. The miters need to be dead on. A 1/4mm gap is ugly, unacceptable. Furthermore, there is human error. So now you add human error to machine error and 1/4mm turns into 1mm or whatever. So you have to cut twice or three times as much pieces in order to get 1 perfect one. Etc.

I don't care to argue with you anymore nor defend my position. I disagree with you. I paid a hefty price for a "Precisio" that has a fence that is 2.5mm too short. I don't really care about any apologist type of argument.

"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #97 on: August 19, 2015, 11:07 AM »
I have agreed on a plan to resolve the matter with festool. I will send the saw to them and they will send me a new one. Now that I am speaking with someone the customer service is great and I couldn't be happier with the resolution. Hopefully it will all work out in the end and the next fence I receive will be much better.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5751
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #98 on: August 20, 2015, 10:35 AM »
I agree with rizzola, you came to a message board airing your dirty laundry to the world. I find if you keep it between you and who ever things get done faster with less animosity. I've had some issues with my some of my festools. Kept. It between me and them got settled straight away and no animosity or hard feelings but got respect from them for handling it in professional manner.


Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #99 on: August 20, 2015, 03:53 PM »
I agree with rizzola, you came to a message board airing your dirty laundry to the world. I find if you keep it between you and who ever things get done faster with less animosity. I've had some issues with my some of my festools. Kept. It between me and them got settled straight away and no animosity or hard feelings but got respect from them for handling it in professional manner.

I disagree with you and rizzola. I think people should publish their opinions of tools and all products, for better or for worse and especially when there is a defect. If you keep it to yourself then there is less or no pressure on the company to right the wrong. Also, you are not helping your fellow consumer from making the same mistake you made. Airing your opinion on a forum such as this will either encourage a company to change it's ways or it will lose customers. In the end, generally speaking, reviewing products on the internet does two things: it drives progress in commerce and production; and it creates a better balance of power between consumer and seller. Well made products don't end up in landfills, at least not as quickly, which means good products are good for the environment and poorly made ones are unethical.

I sincerely believe this and I hope you will reconsider your position.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 03:58 PM by MichaelW2014 »
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 587
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #100 on: August 20, 2015, 07:20 PM »
Alright so it seems you really want to get into this so here's my stance. You are entitled. Your entire stance has been that you feel festool should send you a new fence "because you say so". Well guess what I wouldn't believe a word you say either without seeing the product. If you had been the least bit flexible and taken the saw to them they may have already fixed the situation but instead you came here to complain in an effort to force them to cater to you so their wouldn't be bad publicity. That is a dirty way of acting and I wouldn't fix your saw on pure principle of you acting so entitled.

Luckily for you festool has a lot more couth (sp?) than I do because Id have told you to shove that fence. So to reiterate Im not trying to defend a company or belittle a problem you may have with a product. I'm merely stating that the way you went about it was lazy, entitled and laughably ineffective. Precisely the kind of person I wouldn't do business with.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #101 on: August 20, 2015, 07:27 PM »
Please let's keep this civil or don't post.

Peter Halle - Moderator

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #102 on: August 21, 2015, 02:04 AM »
Alright so it seems you really want to get into this so here's my stance. You are entitled. Your entire stance has been that you feel festool should send you a new fence "because you say so". Well guess what I wouldn't believe a word you say either without seeing the product. If you had been the least bit flexible and taken the saw to them they may have already fixed the situation but instead you came here to complain in an effort to force them to cater to you so their wouldn't be bad publicity. That is a dirty way of acting and I wouldn't fix your saw on pure principle of you acting so entitled.

Luckily for you festool has a lot more couth (sp?) than I do because Id have told you to shove that fence. So to reiterate Im not trying to defend a company or belittle a problem you may have with a product. I'm merely stating that the way you went about it was lazy, entitled and laughably ineffective. Precisely the kind of person I wouldn't do business with.

I have already responded to these perceptions. I have no interest in arguing about it any further--that's not worthy of my time. You are not saying anything worthy of conversation. You are wasting your time.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline lollog

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #103 on: August 26, 2015, 02:13 AM »
I can some one say me in metric size the dimension of the mitre slot?

Offline Frank-Jan

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  • Dutch Canadian living in Belgium
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #104 on: August 26, 2015, 09:30 AM »
I can some one say me in metric size the dimension of the mitre slot?
There is no mitre slot on the cs70, the T-slot in the table is for clamping with the festool rail clamps, and isn't open at the front. Aproximate measurements (no calipers, just cheap ruler) bottomwidth 12 mm top opening 8.5 mm depth from top 10mm heigth inside T slot 7 mm

Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #105 on: December 02, 2015, 04:57 PM »
Is there anything in particular you would like to know?

I have had both - at the same time - but since joining a larger workshop with a LARGE format saw I just kept the CS50.

They are similar yet quite different. The CS50 is very portable but that portability and lack of weight _can_be a problem for some ripping tasks. The CS70 is heavier and with all the bells & whistles it isn't exactly "portable" in my book. It does everything a little bit better I think but all in all the CS50 is a great little machine for ripping small stuff, cutting flooring and trim to size. I don't use it as often nowadays but the cut quality and accuracy is great. Blade brake is great to have. The sliding mechanism on the CS50 is a bit easier but it isn't bad at all on the CS70.

The CS50 is too small to handle sheet goods very well - even with the add on tables. The CS70 does a better job with sheet goods but you would appreciate a hand when feeding them sheets through the machine.

Dust extraction is pretty good on both - except for ripping without the shroud in place where it is still good. They are fairly quiet (at least the CS50) and I find that once they are set up properly the repeatability is excellent even when removing add ons and putting them back on.

All in all the CS70 is not really comparable to a larger format saw but would serve most well as a "do it all" saw in a smaller workshop whereas the CS50 would be to limited I think - even when paired with a plunge saw with rails.

Compared to the brand new digital fence Felder Format saw we have in the workshop the CS70 is still severely limited in capacity and accuracy. I decided to keep the little one as it does a really good job on smaller jobs on site and is easy on the back but to be honest I sometimes miss the CS70 with parallel fence (LA) and one "side extension" on site.

For stability and capacity the CS70 is a "better" saw as in stronger and more stable and with all the add ons I could do most stuff with it - but with all the add ons the foot print was quite large in my small shop and removing extensions was a bit tedious in the long run. I am quite happy with the CS50 and I find the smaller footprint an advantage and coupled with a few other saws I wouldn't be without anyway (Kapex, Mafell rail saw) I find the CS50 worthwhile.

If you are working with mdf or any thicker stock on a regular basis I don't think a CS50 is the ticket but if you can find the space and £££ $$$ for a CS70 set up you have a whole lot of option that rival the CS70 in capacity.

Confusing or helping you? I don't know. Just typing from the top of my head. Have you any specific questions - ask away. :)
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Kev

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #106 on: December 02, 2015, 07:21 PM »
I decided not to get the CS70 because of its bulk and the fact that even collapsed, all the pieces add up to a lot of space ... I went CMS and I'm short significantly of the table saw outcome I desired. When space permits I will get a permanent slider (but that's still a time away).

To my thinking, the CS70 is not something you'll want to be continually packing up at the end of the day! That's the quick to deploy contractor saw market that Festool isn't currently addressing.

In this space I would also look at Mafell. I'm not a fan of the company by a long shot, but they do make some decent tools and their potable table saw offerings are more modern than the aging CS70 design (notice I say "aging" - certainly not obsolete).

Offline Alex

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #107 on: December 02, 2015, 08:28 PM »
the motor is 2200w so should work well squaring up timber before running through the thicknesseser.

I also have the CS70, and I find the 2200 W motor not as strong as expected. It is an induction motor, and those do not deliver as much power per watt as conventional electric motors.

As long as you stay with soft wood you're okay at full cut capacity, but with hardwood over 40 mm mine starts to struggle. The thicker you go with hardwood the slower you have to feed it which can result in burn marks.

I know the saw is suppose to be rather heavy but I'm used to lugging heavy tools 100 yards to site, it does seem to fold quite compact which is a plus because carrying something heavy is far easier than carrying something half the weight but a awkward size. Or am I wrong did you use it on site much or was it mainly used at your workshop ?

Don't underestimate its weight. With 33 kg it is heavy and pretty big, so it is not that easy to carry. I always use a foldable cart when I have to take it somewhere. Walking 100 yards with the CS70 in your hands is a real workout. If you bring all accessories of the full kit, you have to walk 3 times. But with my cart I can take it all easily at once. Going up a stairwell is also less fun.

To my thinking, the CS70 is not something you'll want to be continually packing up at the end of the day! That's the quick to deploy contractor saw market that Festool isn't currently addressing.

Setting it up and packing it in is a 5 minute operation. Peanuts for a full days' work. But not something you want to do multiple times a day.

than the aging CS70 design (notice I say "aging" - certainly not obsolete).

Correct, not obsolete, but certainly aging. The design is over 25 years old and could use a few tweaks here and there.

Offline dutchie

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #108 on: December 06, 2015, 04:56 PM »
You could look into a Mafell Erica 70 or 85 (higher price point) or Bosch GTS 10 XC (lower price point). Perhaps those fit your needs more!

Offline GhostFist

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #109 on: December 06, 2015, 05:27 PM »
I just got an erika 70 and I couldn't be happier

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #110 on: December 06, 2015, 05:51 PM »
I just got an erika 70 and I couldn't be happier

WOW - just looked and those are over $3K here in NA.  Not bashing the price, just hadn't checked them out entirely.

Peter

Offline Kev

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #111 on: December 06, 2015, 06:04 PM »
I just got an erika 70 and I couldn't be happier

WOW - just looked and those are over $3K here in NA.  Not bashing the price, just hadn't checked them out entirely.

Peter

I always get nervous spending (and being reliant)  on something expensive with motors, electronics, etc without easy access to service and support. On paper the Erika 85 would have been a good option for me ... but not in Oz.


Offline GhostFist

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #112 on: December 07, 2015, 05:36 AM »
They aint cheap, thats for sure.

Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #113 on: December 07, 2015, 05:52 PM »
Thanks all giving me s lot to think about maybe the cs70 just isn't right for me
Maybe I should hold my breath and wait for a new model to come out
I have thought about the cms paired with my ts75 but again the capacity seems much more limiting to the cs70

CMS with the TS75?

Don't do it. That's how I started out, with the TS75, parallel fence and side extension on the CMS. You get a powerful saw with a very flimsy table and no way to handle sheet goods properly. Set up is a nuisance and mounting and dismounting the saw too.  The TS75 is a fantastic saw on the rails - not so much on the CMS. Of all your options it would be the "worst". The power to weight ratio is not in proportion and I can honestly not recommend it.

I have used the CS70 for quite some time and I agree that 40mm Oak will bog it down unless you fit a Panther blade but apart from thick hardwood I find the CS70 a great "compromise" of a saw.

You should also know that the CS70 has a motor intake filter and fares better in very dusty condition and the CS50 does not.

The Erika saws? Great! I have only used an older model on site, not mine though, I think it was the Erika 60. Pricey, but sturdy. :)

« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 05:58 PM by Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits »
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Kev

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #114 on: December 07, 2015, 11:05 PM »
Thanks all giving me s lot to think about maybe the cs70 just isn't right for me
Maybe I should hold my breath and wait for a new model to come out
I have thought about the cms paired with my ts75 but again the capacity seems much more limiting to the cs70

CMS with the TS75?

Don't do it. That's how I started out, with the TS75, parallel fence and side extension on the CMS. You get a powerful saw with a very flimsy table and no way to handle sheet goods properly. Set up is a nuisance and mounting and dismounting the saw too.  The TS75 is a fantastic saw on the rails - not so much on the CMS. Of all your options it would be the "worst". The power to weight ratio is not in proportion and I can honestly not recommend it.

I have used the CS70 for quite some time and I agree that 40mm Oak will bog it down unless you fit a Panther blade but apart from thick hardwood I find the CS70 a great "compromise" of a saw.

You should also know that the CS70 has a motor intake filter and fares better in very dusty condition and the CS50 does not.

The Erika saws? Great! I have only used an older model on site, not mine though, I think it was the Erika 60. Pricey, but sturdy. :)

I have a full CMS TS75 setup and agree .. not a friend of sheet goods and annoying when you want to go off 900 !! Height adjustment is easy though. It's ok for cross-cutting 1.5~2m pieces and ripping ~3m. If I cross-cut bigger stuff I'll switch the module out of the GE and into the VL where the MFT/3 aids support (annoying amount of effort .. think I've don't it twice).

Fortunately I've dedicated a TS75 to the module, so I don't suffer the "in again out again" waltz!

I feel like a broken record when I drone on about wanting space for a slider ... but I DOOO!!! [crying] [sad]

Offline Alex

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #115 on: December 08, 2015, 05:13 PM »
The CS70 is still a great saw and I like mine very much.

Offline Holmz

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #116 on: December 08, 2015, 05:14 PM »
@Kev The Erika 85 is ~600 (shipping) landed into a proper shipping port and collected from there.

Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #117 on: December 09, 2015, 03:53 AM »
Kealevans: as part of a system the CS70 is the best of the lot.

Holmz: you do mean
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Holmz

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #118 on: December 09, 2015, 04:58 AM »
Ja ja

Offline Kev

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #119 on: December 09, 2015, 05:29 AM »
Kealevans: as part of a system the CS70 is the best of the lot.

Holmz: you do mean

It doesn't hurt ... this is the ultimate plan ...

 http://www.felder-australia.com/au-en/products/e53f1945eeccb7a8b7aeeab27947df9b/product_detail/c4e11064e9a0b2e6140f2fa6962dacec/e53f1945eeccb7a8b7aeeab27947df9b

... makes the Erika look like a child's toy!! [wink] [big grin]

Offline GhostFist

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #120 on: December 09, 2015, 12:44 PM »
Adult saw

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Holmz

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #121 on: December 09, 2015, 01:56 PM »
@Kev - that is a nice bit-o-kit.

In any case the Presario is portable, and the thread's theme is portable.
But with the expense one is a fair ways to wards the Hammer/Felder.

Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #122 on: December 09, 2015, 05:37 PM »
Seems like my message got all scrambled up (cough *moderated* cough?)

Holmz: you mean the Erika is OZ$6000 and not OZ$600?

I wrote: As a part of a system I think the CS70 is the best of the lot. Some fences and accessories that carry over.
Mafell offers extensive and expensive accessory options for the Erika as well to add routers and such.
They make the CS70 look like a bargain  [eek].

This is the one we run in the workshop:
http://www.format-4usa.com/us-us/products/table-saws/sliding-table-panel-saw-kappa-400-x-motion.html

I honestly think it is AWESOME!!!  [big grin]
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7652
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #123 on: December 09, 2015, 06:21 PM »
Seems like my message got all scrambled up (cough *moderated* cough?)

Holmz: you mean the Erika is OZ$6000 and not OZ$600?

I wrote: As a part of a system I think the CS70 is the best of the lot. Some fences and accessories that carry over.
Mafell offers extensive and expensive accessory options for the Erika as well to add routers and such.
They make the CS70 look like a bargain  [eek].

This is the one we run in the workshop:
http://www.format-4usa.com/us-us/products/table-saws/sliding-table-panel-saw-kappa-400-x-motion.html

I honestly think it is AWESOME!!!  [big grin]

That's what's waiting for you in woodworker heaven [sad] doubt I'll be going there [embarassed]

Offline Holmz

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Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #124 on: December 09, 2015, 08:41 PM »
Seems like my message got all scrambled up (cough *moderated* cough?)

Holmz: you mean the Erika is OZ$6000 and not OZ$600?

I wrote: As a part of a system I think the CS70 is the best of the lot. Some fences and accessories that carry over.
Mafell offers extensive and expensive accessory options for the Erika as well to add routers and such.
They make the CS70 look like a bargain  [eek].

This is the one we run in the workshop:
http://www.format-4usa.com/us-us/products/table-saws/sliding-table-panel-saw-kappa-400-x-motion.html

I honestly think it is AWESOME!!!  [big grin]

It is whatever they are in Euro ex-VAT, plus ~600 shipping and GST of ~20 on the tool+shipping

Probably close to 6k AU fully options with a router etc,

Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #125 on: December 11, 2015, 07:03 AM »
Kev: we ironically call the workshop "the Paradise".  [big grin]

Holmz: phew! That is a bit rich isn't it!? Makes the practical cost vs value of running an Erika setup in OZ really hard to stomach.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #126 on: December 11, 2015, 04:50 PM »
It is 2239.50 Eu + 500 = 2750 Eu
/.7
4000 Au.

So add in the LO-65 and it is prancing towards 6k.
A TS75 and it its table, plus a QF2200 are probably heading up around there.
A Felder/Hammer is not much more, but I dod not believe that they can masquerade as a jobsite saw.

Being cheap I am creating using solely the rails. I cut some planks the other day with a 3 degree angle on the long sides. I was thinking a table saw or a router with an angle would be easy... (I keep the wallet in pocket.)
« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 03:58 PM by Holmz »

Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #127 on: December 15, 2015, 03:48 PM »
Holmz: once you upgrade you are left with some expensive "left overs" so keep that wallet in your pocket.

I can't remember when I last used the CS50 - five or six months ago for some really small trim ripping. Still, a job/project might surface when it will be just the right on site machine. I would hate to sell it and it doesn't take up much space with all the add ons neatly folded up. :)
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #128 on: December 15, 2015, 04:00 PM »
Holmz: once you upgrade you are left with some expensive "left overs" so keep that wallet in your pocket.
...

Tak Henrik
I am leaning towards the Erika, but I have a low centre of gravity to my feet are planted firmly.

Offline sebcbien

  • Posts: 49
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #129 on: August 17, 2016, 06:31 PM »
Hello,
The RPM of the CS 70 is between 2000 and 4200 RPM
The average recommanded cutting speed for wood is between 40 (hard wood) and 100 m/s (soft wood)
With the blade of 225MM, and 4200 RPM, the speed is around 50 meter per second... (50x60)/(3,14x0,225) = 4246 RPM
Is the CS 70 speed enough ? do you always use the maximum speed ?
Thanks

Offline sebcbien

  • Posts: 49
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #130 on: August 25, 2016, 06:22 AM »
So... nobody has an idea ? :-\
Thanks  :)

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6054
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #131 on: August 25, 2016, 09:50 AM »
I always use it full speed, seems fine with all wood. I am not a precision woodworker with high demands though.

100 m/s seems like a very high speed, I don't think it's necessary. If your calculation is correct, then a saw like the CS70 would need to go with a good 8500 RPM? With that speed, I'm afraid it would take off.

Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #132 on: August 25, 2016, 03:04 PM »
sebcien:
I have mostly used the CS70 at (or near) full speed and it has no problems with either softwood, hardwood or sheet goods for all the normal thickness/dimensions. I have ripped Oak up to 60mm with the standard blade and softwood at full capacity.

For sheet goods the handling of the sheet/panel is more of a problem than the cutting capacity. 
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Frank-Jan

  • Posts: 1043
  • Dutch Canadian living in Belgium
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #133 on: August 25, 2016, 03:38 PM »
I only dial the speed down on the CS70 for cutting aluminum or plastics with the non-ferro blade. (but sometimes I forget to turn it back up immediately)

When ripping, I usually keep the feedrate fairly low, to get better dustcollection, so I find the cutting speed fast enough.

Offline sebcbien

  • Posts: 49
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #134 on: August 25, 2016, 08:04 PM »
Thanks all for your replies, in my experience, I had to lower the speed for hard wood (Oak) becaus I had burned parts when cutting.
Then I forgot to go back to high speed and it worked quite well with soft wood also (same blade as the one sold with the CS 70)
That's why I asked the question here.
Thanks

Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #135 on: August 30, 2016, 02:27 AM »
sebcien: the standard blade will generally cause a little more burning on high speed as you can't have the same feed rate as either the panther blade or when using a lower speed setting. On the occasion where I needed a cleaner "burn free" rip and the standard blade I did rip it twice, one rip a little oversize with a mm to spare and the last one at the correct width and in this case the amount of wood to break free of the blade is minimal so I could push the oak through at a faster rate with no burning.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline AJCruise

  • Posts: 27
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #136 on: September 04, 2016, 02:26 PM »
I was just wondering, has anyone made a comprehensive video review of the CS70?

I know there is a really good one from a guy in Poland (no translation/english subtitles), but I don't know of any official Festool ones, with Franck or Phil.

This saw has been around for a long time now, so maybe an upgrade is due and we'll see something then.

Hint: Phil, give one to Peter Parfitt for a few weeks to make another great video.

I would be interested in a comparative video between the CS70 and it's little brother, the CS50

Alan
PS-1E (First Festool!! Festo ~1989 and still going strong!),  TS55, RO90,  DWC 18-2500 Set, PDC 18/4, MFT/3,  KA-UG 120 Set, CTL Midi,  2x FS1400 Rails,  FS-Rapid,  Selection of FS screw clamps.

Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #137 on: September 09, 2016, 05:58 PM »
AJ Cruise: I had both the CS50 and CS70 for a longer period. The CS70 was acting as a semi portable rig and the CS50 did some interior trim work on site. Both had most of the add ons.

In retrospect I did like the power and capacity of the CS70 compared to the CS50 but the CS50 does really well within its specifications so I am quite happy using the little brother.

Much as I like the CS70 it is a saw that is neither here nor there for me at the moment. It has nowhere near the precision or processing power, capacity and repeatability of the shop saw and it hasn't the portability of the CS50.
Sure, the CS50 is awkward with sheet goods but I have several track saws so the CS50 is a great pairing to any plunge/track saw for on site work. I have done some flooring and lots of trimming with the CS50.   Since I reckon I would bring a track saw to any on site job I am actually better off with the CS50 and a track saw.

I sold the CS70 with some regrets though, I did some really nice builds with it over the years.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline AJCruise

  • Posts: 27
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #138 on: September 11, 2016, 07:30 PM »
Henrik,
Thanks for your response. Your experience with both machines, their pros and cons, is exactly what I was looking to hear about.

At the moment, I am in the process of rebuilding my tool kit for construction work (stolen from my van a few years ago).
I am self-employed and generally work on my own. I have been adding tools as and when the need requires.

The next additions will include the BHC18, PSC420 and HKC55. I am trying to go cordless as much as possible, dragging around a 110v transformer (standard for sitework in Ireland) and extension cables is a real pain.

My TS55, CTL Midi and RO90 are all 110v, and I need to get at least one semi-stationary saw to cut framing 2X stock.
The Kapex SCMS would probably be the obvious choice, but I am reluctant to spend €1000+ on the 110v model, having read about numerous motor issues that are reported.

That is why I am enquiring about the CS70. (The CS50 doesn't have the capacity to cut 2X stock (44mm) much beyond 90 degrees)
The only limitation I see with the CS70 is that it is limited to 47 degrees.

As I said in my last comment, an upgrade with 85mm cut and 60 degree tilt (the new HK85 has this capacity) would be perfect.

If Festool have already addressed the motor issues on the kapex, then I will go with that and maybe the HK85 for rip cuts

Hint: A CMS module for the HK85 would be a great idea for site work.

Regards,
Alan
PS-1E (First Festool!! Festo ~1989 and still going strong!),  TS55, RO90,  DWC 18-2500 Set, PDC 18/4, MFT/3,  KA-UG 120 Set, CTL Midi,  2x FS1400 Rails,  FS-Rapid,  Selection of FS screw clamps.

Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #139 on: September 12, 2016, 12:37 PM »
Alan: for ripping/trimming down framing/studs the CS70 is a much better machine, that is for sure. Also if you are often working with hardwood or thicker sheetgoods. But that is a given considering the weight and power difference.

Also the CS70 has a motor air intake filter which I am pretty sure the CS50 does not have so for the more particle laden job sites the CS70 has the added advantage of being more protected for wear.

On a couple of sites over the years where there has been a CS70 set up it has always been very handy. Manageable with sheet goods and works well for ripping. I have of course been glad I wasn't the one who had to haul it to the site though. Only on one site did the CS70 have any add ons. On the other occasions it was just a bare bones CS70 with the parallell fence which is how most tradesmen seem to work the CS70 over here.

The CS70 is a more complete saw than the CS50 but for me the weight penalty was too much and the CS50 has proved itself to be a versatile lightweight workhorse. Even so I don't really bring the add ons with me on jobs unless I have a very specific need and can't solve it with other tools.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline MikkelF

  • Posts: 5
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #140 on: August 06, 2019, 12:12 PM »
Hi Henrik,

I have been looking at the CS 70 for some time now due to limited space in my shop - I asked some question about it some time back, but still would really like to hear your feedback on it - I have some questions below you might be able to address?:

When you write "...the CS70 it is a saw that is neither here nor there for me at the moment. It has nowhere near the precision or processing power, capacity and repeatability of the shop saw..." does that mean the fence is moving while sawing or just hard to set at a precise measurement or?

What about the sliding table - is that capable or just a gadget in your opinion?

How about dust control? Does that compare to their track saws or is it less effective?

Offline sebcbien

  • Posts: 49
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #141 on: August 06, 2019, 06:22 PM »
Hello,
I've had 3 CS70 table saw.
I have to say, as much as I "love" Festool tools, the CS70 is not a very precise table.
First, the motor/blade is mounted on a plastic mount with 3 points that slides on steel rails. the whole assembly is not rigid and worse it pivot slightly when cutting.
The blade is usually not parallel to the table (I suggest everyone with a CS 70 to take two squares and verify the squareness of the borders of the table vs the blade...)
Adjustments to the fence has to be made (I had the LA fence) to be parallel to the blade, but then it's not square to the table.
So, when you use the sliding table or the mobile fence attached to another side of the table, it's not 90°.
All in all, I took time to try fix this, bought two other second hand CS70 that where a little better, but at the end .. I bought a Dewalt DWE7492 and I'm very happy.
It take less space, cost 1/2 the price, do not need expensive extension tables and can be adjusted to make perfect cuts.
I'm from Belgium, where CS 70 is more easily available than in US (I think so ?) and in the US, where you have other tables that are very good like the sawstop... I think I would not buy a CS70.

the CS70, with the extension tables takes a lot of space and removing them takes times... so t the end, it's always "expanded".
That's one big point for the dewalt, more cut width available than the CS 70 with the extension table and down to a small table in 5 seconds.
CS70 dust collection is ok, like almost all festools tools
CS70 sliding table is ok, but in my opinion, more to cross cut laminated parquet than large stocks
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 10:53 AM by sebcbien »

Offline mikkelfilskov

  • Posts: 4
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #142 on: August 12, 2019, 10:48 AM »
Sorry for the late reply, but I couldn't post my reply for some strange reason.
Your reply answered all my questions and the CS 70 has now been removed from the list. Any suggestion for a compact  tablesaw that has effective dust control, precise fence and t-slots?

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5751
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #143 on: August 12, 2019, 11:23 AM »
@sebcbien

Very nce review. I have found similar issues with the TS 75 module i the CMS. I have been tempted to sell it along with TS 75 as I have a TS 55 that I use for well just about everything I do. I have been looking at getting a old Makita table saw, the old green one 2308 (I think) The old ones were work horses and very good on site.

Still kicking it around. I really dont know what or how much to sell the module with side extension and fence for.

 

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6054
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #144 on: August 12, 2019, 01:22 PM »
I can totally not find myself in sebcbien's review of the CS70.

I can cut perfect 90 or 45 degree corners, or anything else. First time I got my saw, which I also bought used, I took some time to adjust everything to my liking. There are a lot of adjustment screws all over the table and extensions and it does take some fiddling to get it right. But since then it always worked perfectly, and I haven't done any adjusting since. The saw carriage always runs fine over it's bars, there's no play there whatsoever. Make sure the felt tips are in good shape. Or installed at all.

Only the CS 70 LA fence isn't that marvelous, I prefer to use the standard fence.   

Offline sebcbien

  • Posts: 49
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #145 on: August 12, 2019, 03:01 PM »
Hi Alex, we are neighbours  [smile]
Maybe you have luck with yours... or I have bad luck with my second hands buy's ... I had 3 CS70, I've tested like 3 others (second hand), and none where perfectly square.. the sellers where surprised...

The problem is that, if the blade is not square to the table, then you cannot adjust it, there is no way to correct the alignment, not a single screw....
As for "play", indeed, there was no play in mine too, I should have used the word "flexible"; With just one finger I was able to move the blade when pushing laterally at the back of the blade, it's way more flexible than many other tables I've tested, like Mafel erika, robland, and the dewalt I bought. When pushing "too hard" MDF stock for example, and with no cover on the blade I could clearly see that the blade was under cutting because I received more dust in my face... hence the flexibility.

Of course the LA 70 fence can be adjusted to be parallel to the blade and my cuts where straight.

Can you test yours with two squares against the left edge of the table? I usually had at least 1mm gap trough the length of the blade. The rear of the blade was under-cutting the wood and slightly pushing away the stock from the fence. on all my CS 70 .. I even tought at a moment that it was intentional to no pinch the stock to the fence and avoid kick back..

I do not say that all CS 70 are like mine, your can be perfectly square, I do just encourage buyers to take their squares with them when buying a CS 70. It's a pitty that I do not had taken pictures, and now they are gone.

Now that I 'm writing I also remember that the surface of the table was not flat near the right of the blade, and when cutting narrow pieces the cut was not 90° vertically because of that.

As positive I have to say that the splinterguard is effective if you do not want to change the blade from rough cut to finish cut. easier to change that than to change the blade. The motor was powerfull and the speed adjust can be a selling point.

I really do like Festool tools, I have almost all my tools in Festool and they perform great and way better than other brands..

Here is one small video where I explained how to "joint" on my CS 70 (my way  [cool])
It's in french, but you can select English closed captions

« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 03:43 PM by sebcbien »

Offline sebcbien

  • Posts: 49
Re: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review
« Reply #146 on: August 12, 2019, 03:34 PM »
I was doing like this to check the blade alignment to the table and the fence. (Here on my dewalt)

302964-0

302966-1

302968-2