Author Topic: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)  (Read 10235 times)

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Offline Imakechips

  • Posts: 4
I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« on: December 22, 2008, 09:37 PM »
I have an old Bosch jigsaw.  It is so difficult to change the blade that I never use it.
Today I looked at the Trion and the new Bosch (1590, IIRC).
Which should I go with?

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Offline Dan Rush

  • Posts: 610
  • Trim carpenter
Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2008, 10:27 PM »
I have a couple of Bosch's and a Trion.  The Trion is now relegated to coping and close cutouts with the Collins foot.  For all around work, I prefer the Bosch.  I think it depends on what type of work the saw will most likely be used for.  It's very subjective, but I prefer the "feel" of the Bosch.  I like the Trion for coping because I think the blade guide is a bit more substantial or accurate than other saws.

Just a thought, Dan

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2008, 12:26 AM »
Get the Bosch it is down to 121.00 free shipping, I have both and the Bosch is better at any price.

At 121.00 it is is a no brainer.  Heck at that price it is worth having it as a back up even if you get the Festool.

Bosch 1590EVSK

My Festool Jig is 5 months new, in perfect condition and looks brand new. I might be willing to sell it to you Imakechips.

« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 12:43 AM by nickao »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline alanz

  • Posts: 128
Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2008, 12:45 AM »
Nick,

Is there a way to hook a CT22 to the Bosch jigsaw?

Thanks
Triton 2.25 router; CMT Industrio table; Jointech fence; SC planer; Dewalt miter; Delta 14" bandsaw; Festool TS55, MFT/3, CT22, ETS150/3, OF1400, PSB300EQ; Dewalt Scrollsaw; Nova DVR XP lathe, JJ-6CS jointer, Ryobi OSS; Grizzly 1023s cabinetsaw

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2008, 01:38 AM »
Yes there is, Bosch offers an accessory for dust collection. If needed use an adapter to get you to whatever hose you are using, but I believe the small hose fits like it does to the Festool Jig.

Bosch Jig Saw Dust Collection

I never hooked up the CT to my Bosch jig. I find neither  the Festool or Bosch jigs  collect the dust very well . The advantages gained by removing the plastic covers  far outweigh the small amount of dust a jigsaw produces for both the Bosch and Festool jigs. At least for me it does.

Using the the Festool jig I just can not see the cut line at all with the dust cover on. Even with the Bosch, using it "naked " allows me to see the cut line better.

I really think Bosch could charge over 200.00 and get it for the new 1590 or 1591(if you want a barrel grip). There is no better bang for the buck out of any type of saw right now that you get with the Bosch jigs in the current price range of 120.00 to 135.00, IMHO
« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 01:46 AM by nickao »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Imakechips

  • Posts: 4
Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2008, 06:10 AM »
Wow.  The Bosch must be really good. 
I asked a question on a Festool forum and the consensus was to NOT buy the Festool.
I will go out today and buy the Bosch.
Thank you!

Offline mastercabman

  • Posts: 1854
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Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2008, 06:48 AM »
The Bosch is nice.I have the Festool and i have worked with the Bosch for many years.
One thing i miss on the Festool is that it does not have a dust blower like the Bosch.(dust blower clears the line of cut)
But i have to say that the Festool does cut straighter than any saws out there.
For the price,you can't beat the Bosch. The  Festool is good too,if you want to spend the money.
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline quietguy

  • Posts: 491
Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2008, 08:57 AM »
I have a couple of Bosch saws (1584 and 1591) and the Trion.  All are barrel grips, which I prefer.  It takes a little getting used to, but they allow you to cut with the saw on the underside of the material.  All you see is the blade and the line.

They are both great machines.  The Bosch is a little easier to handle, so it sees the most use.  If outside of the shop, I generally just take the Trion.  The Festool shines in two areas -

First, it cuts better in thick materials.  It is less prone to blade deflection. 

Second, the dust collection is a little better.   Neither is perfect. 

I can see where those that use the top-handle models would prefer the Bosch.  The times that I have to cut from the top of the material, the Festool is much harder to see the cut-line, especially if you leave the plastic cover in place.

My older Bosch is fitted with the Collins Coping Foot.  It is, hands down, the best $30 I ever spent on tools.  I keep a second one in the Systainer for the Trion, just in case I don't have the dedicated setup handy.  It is a shame that the new Bosch models can't be fitted with the foot.   
« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 09:46 AM by mwhafner »

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1937
Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2008, 11:13 AM »
I have the Trion barrel grip, the newer Bosch with handle, and the older Bosch with handle and Collins coping foot. I know, overkill, but each has its place. The Trion does cut more square and true by a slight margin, and I use it upside down a lot. The newer Bosch works well in the upright position but it will not accept the Collins coping foot, and I agree that it was $30.00 well spent. Dust collection is 100% on all three. The floor catches it all. 
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2008, 12:33 PM »
Greg I love that dust collection comment!

I do agree the Trion cuts with less deflection, in really thick lumber it is especially good like when cutting 4" x 4" material.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Forrest Anderson

  • Posts: 1072
Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2008, 02:16 PM »
Wow.  The Bosch must be really good. 
I asked a question on a Festool forum and the consensus was to NOT buy the Festool.
I will go out today and buy the Bosch.
Thank you!

Whenever the subject of jigsaws comes up, although a few people prefer the Festool, the majority always seems to favour the Bosch 1590/1591.

To balance that, I am one of the few guys around who didn't like the Bosch, and I returned it for several reasons. As the Festool jigsaw was too expensive to contemplate at that particular time, I chose a DeWalt jigsaw intsead  (the DW331). I am extremely happy with it,  and would recommend it to anyone.

See the discussion we had last year on FOG where the "what jigsaw should I get?" question was asked, and I outline the problems I had with my Bosch (in this case the British equivalent of the 1591EVSK, called the GST135).

Forrest

Compiler of the Consolidated List of Festool Links - the place to go for Festool reviews, manuals, brochures and videos!

Offline daves1996

  • Posts: 80
  • I am a tool addict!
Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2008, 04:43 PM »
Another  plus for the Bosch is, it has a removable plastic shoe cover that just clips in place. If you are cutting something that will damage the plastic, just slide it off. I have noticed on the trion  that it is held on with screws.

Dave
Kapex, TS75, Domino, Rotex 150, Deltex 93, CT22 and lots of accys.

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 881
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2008, 05:19 PM »
Just a note that Makita makes a great Jigsaw, I'd say easily equal to the Bosch. Also note that (as mwhafner mentioned) the Makita and Festool jigsaws are compatible with the Collins coping foot, but  the newer Bosch jigsaws are NOT compatible. I'm not sure if you're planning on coping thousands of feet of crown molding, but it's something to consider. I currently own the top handle Makita and don't regret the purchase fora moment, and am saving up for the Barrel grip Makita as a dedicated Collins Coping Foot machine. Anyways, just my two cents!
« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 05:55 PM by Tom Gensmer »
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2008, 06:39 PM »
Still, for value at 121.00 the Bosch can not be beat.

As far as coping you would think Collins would put out a modified coping foot for the most popular jigsaw for the last 20 years which is the Bosch. I am lucky enough not to use a jig for coping, but if I did I would get a dedicated unit myself.

What is funny Collins still recommends the Bosch T244D blades be used with the foot. I guess there are a lot of old Bosch jigs still out there that the foot works with.

Another thought, someone here can make the Collins foot work with the Bosch with a modification I am sure, I am surprised no one has tried yet. You guys are all talented!
« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 07:12 PM by nickao »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline quietguy

  • Posts: 491
Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2008, 07:05 PM »
The Collins foot will work with most Bosch models, just not the 159x series.  It works great on my 1584.

Offline Neill

  • Posts: 889
Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2008, 07:46 PM »
I would say that you cannot go wrong no matter what the choice.  I have had both. The thing I really like about my Festool jigsaw is that for about $15 I was able to purchase the guide stop that enabled me to use the saw with a guide rail.  Essential for long, straight, bevel or angle cuts.  Of course straight cuts are not necessarily the purpose of a jigsaw.

I have the barrel grip model and have also found that the guide stop, when attached to base plate, facilitates mounting the jigsaw in the inverted position on say a Workmate or shop made jig.

I do find that since I do not have a band saw, the Festool does well in place of it, except of course for resawing.
Neill
Kapex, Domino, MFT/3, Rotex 150 FEQ, CT 22E, TS 55, RS2E Orbital Sander, C12 Drill, 1400 Router, Rotex 90 DX, Rotex 125 FEQ, LS 130 EQ Linear, Parallel Guide Set, Deltex 93 E, Trion 300 Barrell Grip, ETS 150/3 EQ, ES125 EQ, Guide Rail Accessory Kit, Sanding Block, various rails, systainers, sortainers, vacuum hoses and accessories for various tools.

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 881
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2008, 07:52 PM »
The Bosch blades should work with any modern jigsaw that accepts the tang-shaped blades. Besides, other than Festool I'm not familiar with many other brands that produce professional jigsaw blades. Like mwhafner stated, the coping foot is compatible with the older, more numerous Bosch jigsaws, just not the newer style.

I dislike the newer Bosch saws more due their size and what I personally perceive as "clunkiness". The Makita saws feel smaller and more nimble, with a very nice LED light and low vibration. This of course is all subjective, every user will experience the saws differently.  

To anybody considering a jigsaw (or any tool, for that matter), I strongly recommend you establish a good relationship with a local tool store and try out the different models in the store to get a feel for them before you purchase. My favored tool vendor has become accustomed to me arriving with scrap wood and my own blades and bits so I can test drive saws and drills before a purchase. They don't bat an eye since they know I'll keep doing business with them. If you have to order online I suggest buying two or more models, test them out head-to-head, then return the lesser unit for a refund.

It's just that so many tools can't be measured simply by comparing amps, watts, decibels, torque, or weight. For instance, I've found many air compressors that, while they may have a slightly lower decibel level, I perceive that they are more loud or more shrill than another compressor that may register higher decibels, but may have a more pleasing tone or thrum rather than a quiet screech.

Same for jig saws, I'd recommend trying out the Festool, Makita, and Bosch head-to-head to figure out which saw suits YOU the best.
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2008, 09:56 PM »
Guys my point is at 121.00 there is no comparison. Even if you feel one is better than the Bosch . I do not know how everyone here is doing financially, but I am hurting and getting the Bosch allows me to by another  sander and even a third tool when you compare the price to the Festool.

There is no way possible the Festool Jig Saw is worth more than double the price, just no way.

When a newbie asks about a jig saw I would never steer them towards a 295.00 saw when the 121.00 is as good and in my personal opinion better. Chunkiness is a matter of preference. The Bosch feels expensive  to me, to others it may feel clunky. The Makita is nice and as one poster said you can do no wrong with most of them, but I will stick to the less expensive model in these current conditions. That extra 164.00 is not getting you anything more by getting the Festool.

That also means I would recommend the Bosch 1250 instead of the Rotex too. The Rotex is my favorite sander but I have the Bosch also and it performs just as well and is probably smoother than the Festool.  Again the price is just to darn good to choose the Festool at this time.

If money is no object I would not pick the Festool jig, I might consider the Makita, but the Bosch does everything I can personally want and the Trion comes out when I have extra thick lumber.

Any tool can now be fitted with a light for 1.00. I know its not as nice as being built in but works quite well.

In this current economic downturn I think I may start a thread or threads on tools that give the biggest bang for the buck and compare them to the Festools. Only the personal user can make the decision on what is worth the money, but we Festool owners may be able to steer people to the Festool must haves, verse the tools that give Festool or near Festool quality for less money. 

I believe this will help the forum grow in a time where even I working as a business could not consider any Festool right now because of the price verse my current income. Many people just can not consider a Festool right now but may need a tool, so lets help them get informed and get them participating in the forum.

If you have a favorite tool that you use instead of a Festool start a thread on it and we can discuss the pros and cons verse its Festool version. Sometimes the Festool is worth the super high price because nothing comes close in quality and function, I just do not think in this case it is the Festool Jig Saw.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 10:00 PM by nickao »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline quietguy

  • Posts: 491
Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2008, 11:22 PM »
Nick,

I agree with you, but think that you may be taking this a little too personally. 

Everyone who contributes to this forum have things in common, one of which is an appreciation of high quality tools.  Sometimes our choices are subjective, and we each have our reasons for our favorites.  Sometimes I buy a tool just because it feels (ergonomically) good.  Sometimes there is a feature that I think will make jobs easier.  There are numerous reasons why we make the choices we make.  Financial considerations are always one of those, but even more so now.  We are all either feeling or anticipating the pinch.  It is harder and harder to justify Festool prices (especially when they keep announcing increases).

I lucked into my introduction to Festool.  I bought out a fellow woodworker that just had a stroke, and could no longer keep up the hobby.  He had just bought a large collection of Festool products, and I got a steal.  Since then, I have made many additions to my collection, and can honestly say that I regret none (I cannot say that about any other tool manufacturer).  I am an engineer by trade, and really appreciate the quality, innovation, and craftsmanship that goes into the Festool products that I own. 

Our opinions are just that, opinions.  Sometimes we get so emotional, we lose sight of that. 

I think that Tom's advice is sage.  Try them all, and pick the one that you like the best. 

Now to bring this all together.  Is the Trion worth 2 1/2 times the price of the Bosch?  I can only speak to the barrel-grip models, but my opinion is no.  My solution, especially in better economic conditions, was to buy both.

I also think that it is important to note that each of our opinions is limited by our experience.  I don't think that I have ever used a Dewalt jigsaw.  They may have the solution for every problem I have ever encountered, or ever will, but how would I know. 
« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 11:57 PM by mwhafner »

Offline erikfsn

  • Posts: 240
Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2008, 11:41 PM »
I have tried the DeWalt, my partner has one, and while it wasn't a bad saw, I like my Bosch better.

I ended up returning my Trion, I couldn't get past the issue of lack of cut-line visibility.

I agree with Nick about the incredible value the Bosch represents. It's a lot of tool for the money.
And a nice long cord. :-)

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2008, 12:40 AM »
Nah I am taking nothing personally at all, I am just dumbfounded on how Bosch can make any money charging such low prices!
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline quietguy

  • Posts: 491
Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2008, 01:04 AM »
I agree with Nick.   

From a pure aesthetic and ergonomic comparison, the new Bosch and Festool are on par.  I really can;t tell much difference between the two.

Offline Dave Ronyak

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Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2008, 01:14 AM »
Gents, I chose a Makita (top handle) jigsaw, and agree with almost all of your discussion comments above.  I liked its smaller size which fit my hands better than some competitors larger models.  And the built-in LED light.  Because I don't use a jigsaw that often, and don't normally require high precision, the Makita has been fine for my purposes.  It uses the same tang-style blades that fit Bosch and Festool.  In fact, I use some Festool brand blades and many Bosch and Makita blades with it.  I have had better success using the general purpose Makita brand blades supplied with my saw than the coarse toothed Festool blades when cutting relatively wet pressure treated SYP.  (I had to cut into smooth curved shapes a pair of 2x12s to serve as a little foot bridge I made for my wife's garden.  I bought the Festool blades specifically for this project; despite their coarse teeth they simply loaded up and were not effective in my damp wood.  My only "gripe" about my Makita (sorry I cannot remember which model it is, purchased 2 or 3 years ago) is that the blade guide is a single grooved hardened metal roller, and thus not adjustable for blade thickness.  Thus, the blade is not well supported against slight twisting to either side.  The adjustable blade guides of both the Bosch and Festool seem superior in this regard.  If I had to purchase again today, I would likely choose the Bosch machine.  If Makita or someone offered an improved upper blade guide, I'd choose it again for its more compact size.  Any of today's jigsaws have more than enough power.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Jason White

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Re: I Need a Jigsaw (Pendulum Saw)
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2008, 06:13 PM »
Yes, I have the Bosch 1591 and there is a dust-collection kit available as an accessory (see link below).  I've been able to connect it to my CT22 with no problems.

http://www.amazon.com/BOSCH-JA1005-Jigsaw-Dust-Collection/dp/B0009H5KO0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1230419629&sr=8-1

Jason

Nick,

Is there a way to hook a CT22 to the Bosch jigsaw?

Thanks