Author Topic: Is pro5 worth $70?  (Read 6831 times)

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Is pro5 worth $70?
« on: June 07, 2019, 02:51 PM »
I spotted one on local ads. It looks pretty used. I usually use my mirka 5” and have a dewalt 5” orbital as a backup. This would replace the backup sander. Is this seem like a good deal or pass?


https://m.imgur.com/a/2fZVb6N

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Offline Alex

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Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2019, 02:59 PM »
Grab it immediately, very good deal.

I  paid €150 for my ETS125, which is the PRO 5's predecessor, and it was a lot more beat up than this one. This one doesn't look bad at all, just a bit of dust on the outside, that's normal when you use a sander.

Online pettyconstruction

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Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2019, 04:46 PM »
Yes


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Offline harry_

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Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2019, 05:50 AM »
The systainer alone is about 2/3 of that price. Buy it!
Disclaimer: This post is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. This is not an offer to sell securities. May be too intense for some viewers. No user-serviceable parts inside. Subject to change without notice. One size fits all (very poorly).

Offline Cheese

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Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2019, 09:00 AM »
The systainer alone is about 2/3 of that price. Buy it!

Toolnut gets $60 for the Systainer alone.

https://www.toolnut.com/festool-204534-limited-edition-blue-systainer-sys-2-tl-t-loc.html

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2019, 06:07 PM »
depends, If I remember correctly new the Pro5 sold as a special $100 w/ systainer and $50 rebate.

So if thats the case, I wouldnt think its that good a deal.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1238
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2019, 06:38 PM »
Jobsworth is right about the original price:

From a previous ad in Canada (2016):
"Each sander includes a $50 voucher to use towards your next Festool tool.

Price is $129.00 Cdn before tax (5% to 15%, depending on the province). In US$ $105 or so, including 5% tax."

So the $70US asking price represents about a 30% discount. Is it a good deal? Only the potential buyer can decide for himself or herself.

When I buy second-hand tools, 40% to 70% discounts are usually my demands. If I can't save a lot from a second-hand deal, I'd rather buy new. "Little point to save pennies" is my motto. In fact, many vendors in my city offer 30% to 70% on smaller or general tools (brand new) regularly.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 10:42 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 779
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2019, 12:07 AM »
The Pro5 is a $200 sander, but sold on promo for $99.00, with the $50 rebate. Smokin' deal, so I partook in the sale myself. They were selling on Ebay for $240, so slightly more than a 30% discount at $70..

Hard to see in the photos, but it mostly looks dusty. My sanders get like that pretty quickly.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2019, 12:31 AM »
When I sell my tools, I always freshen them up and present them in their best light on the auction site. Dirty tools don't give the potential buyers any confidence. Most of my tools or machines have been sold at my asking prices within a day or two.

As for the Pro5, I have two, and after each use, I clean them with the shop vac (a 5-second job with the brush) before putting them away.

Offline Alex

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Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2019, 01:12 AM »
depends, If I remember correctly new the Pro5 sold as a special $100 w/ systainer and $50 rebate.

So if thats the case, I wouldnt think its that good a deal.

The PRO 5 was sold with a huge discount by Festool as a promotion. It is the same sander they sell now for $200. Still think that's a small margin? 

When I buy second-hand tools, 40% to 70% discounts are usually my demands. If I can't save a lot from a second-hand deal, I'd rather buy new. "Little point to save pennies" is my motto. In fact, many vendors in my city offer 30% to 70% on smaller or general tools (brand new) regularly.

How much pennies do you save here over buying new, you think?

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2019, 01:35 AM »
When I buy new, I am not saving pennies, but when I resell them, I am making pounds. Of course, like selling anything else, you need to be a good salesperson to sell at the prices you want.

If I bought an old machine without saving a lot compared to its new retail price, when I resold it (as a second or third hand owner), very likely that I would have to sell it for even less.

Lowe's, KMS (a Cdn vendor), etc. often offer 10% to 20% discounts to the Bosch, Dewalt, etc. brands. If I bought a second-hand Bosch at 35% discount, my actual saving could just be $20, $30. No way I would take an old tool (probably out of warranty already) just to save a little. Remember second-hand tools carry no return policy.

By the way, if the Pro5 was sold new for $100US by Festool, the starting point was $100 for calculating the discount % in the resell, because that is the price the seller paid for his tool.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 01:49 AM by ChuckM »

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6122
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2019, 02:16 AM »
By the way, if the Pro5 was sold new for $100US by Festool, the starting point was $100 for calculating the discount % in the resell, because that is the price the seller paid for his tool.

That is a pretty rigid way of thinking. So no accounting at all that this original PRO 5 was a very rare limited time offer? A deal where Festool sold it way below it's actual value? This was a special occasion and you know it. You can not bring out your general rule book, you have to reach into that little pocket where you keep your little book with rules for special occasions.

So you avoid my question, how much pennies would you save if you had to buy this sander new, same functionality, same quality? That would cost you $200, right? That's a $130 saving, or 13.000 pennies. Would you think 13.000 pennies are a lot of pennies?

Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2019, 04:04 AM »
I very rarely buy anything used or second hand, especially tools, as much of the time the price is (in my opinion) too high, and also my business gets tax relief on buying new. I did chase a really nice used Erika 85 recently though but, considering it was mint condition, and around £3,000 new, I would have made an exception.

Whenever I sell anything, I normally ask around half price, or a little more for something rare or collectable. Also for me, any savings need to be substantial, otherwise I’ll cough up the rest of the money and buy new.

I recently saw a used but very good conditioned MFT/3 with all the protractor and rail etc, on the auction site.The seller said make an offer, I can get one brand new for a little over £600, I offered £350. Not only did the seller decline my offer, they asked if I was serious?
I watched the item, that was listed for three weeks, finally sell for £365? To be fair I saw a similar one go for £450. No way am I paying £450 for a used one, I would just pay out £600 and get a brand new one with full warranty.

Same as ex demo, if something is ex demo, it’s been manhandled by perspective customers, some who have no idea of how to use such a tool. Only yesterday, I watched a guy in a branch of Axminster tools playing around with the Kapex’s. He pulled on the saw body whilst the rails we locked almost pulling the saw over. Then was twisting for all his worth on the bevel fine adjuster knob, whilst the rear bevel lock was engaged  [blink] I wouldn’t want to buy that saw, unless it was very discounted.

As somebody mentioned earlier, it’s all down to whether the buyer thinks it’s a good deal or not, and of course budget

Offline Distinctive Interiors

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Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2019, 05:39 AM »
I bought a second hand 240v CTL Midi, a DF500 Domino, a Rotex RO90 and a DTS 400 sander from 2 members of another forum I'm on.
All 4 tools looked as if they had been barely used, all were out of warranty period and all were about half the price of buying new.

 I have been very happy with those purchases. The Domino machine also came with about a thousand dominos, the CT came with 5 new spare filter bags, and the sanders came with boxes & boxes of spare abrasives.

Sometimes, buying second hand can be a minefield but I have been fortunate and would certainly entertain buying second hand again.
Incidentally, I checked all TNR & SNR numbers of all the tools to ensure that they were all kosher.

Offline Alex

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Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2019, 08:49 AM »
I buy used tools all the time. Especially Festool, they're close to indestructable, no matter how bad a previous owner handled it. And I repair the tools myself, and if something is broken, I order a few parts for little and fix it back to "as new" condition.

At one point I owned 23 Festools of which I only bought 2 new, a DTS400 and a CTL Mini.

I only buy in person and examine each tool very closely before I take it home. I only buy it if there is at least a 30-40% saving on the new price. When I just got into Festool over 10 years ago, I bought every one I could get my hands on, and if I didn't like it I would sell it on again. I noticed how incredibly easy it was sell them again, and make a nice profit with it also. They have an incredible resale value.

I bought my CS70 saw for €1000 from a retired contractor, back when prices were still fixed and the new price was €3200. Not long after somebody offered me €2150 for it. I have it around 7 years now and though the saw is from 2006 it is still in perfect working order. 

I will buy any used Festool with the greatest confidence. I even have a guy who's an electrical engineer who will buy the most broken Festools from me just because he likes fooling around with them.

When you buy a used tool, there are two things to watch out for: the motor, and the electronics module. If I suspect they are not in good condition, I do not buy the tool because those are very expensive parts. Any other part is cheap to replace. For sanders, the condition of the pad is also something to pay attention to.

Besides that, I really do not get the idea that you don't like a tool just because somebody else handled it before.

Online PeterK

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Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2019, 08:50 AM »
If the owner of the sander had some pride in his tools and really wanted to sell it for the highest price they would have cleaned it up and detailed it. If it was mine to sell it would look virtually new and would have a price of $160. It would have a new pad and a selection of paper with it. I have never sold Festool for less than 75% and vast majority at 80% of current new price.
If I was looking to purchase it I would remove the pad and inspect the inside. Also if the pad is yellowing it will need replacement and is not low cost. I see it all the time but it seems crazy people won’t present their item to sell in the best possible condition.
I would need to see and run the sander before purchase due to the condition. Would also want to see if any warrantee time is left.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2019, 09:47 AM »
By the way, if the Pro5 was sold new for $100US by Festool, the starting point was $100 for calculating the discount % in the resell, because that is the price the seller paid for his tool.

That is a pretty rigid way of thinking. So no accounting at all that this original PRO 5 was a very rare limited time offer? A deal where Festool sold it way below it's actual value?

Snip.

-- When I calculate a transactional profit or loss, discounts or otherwise from an accounting point of view, I use historical/book value as the basis. It is not about rigidity or flexibility because once I include other "judgment" factors into my calculations, the math can become way more complex which may require re-valuation, assigning value, etc.

Consider this: If I sold one of my Pro5s brand new, unused, say, at the same original price I paid after owning it for just 1 day, should I consider the sale a breakeven, a loss, or a gain? According to your reasoning, I should celebrate it for a big profit, right? In reality, it wasn't.

So you avoid my question, how much pennies would you save if you had to buy this sander new, same functionality, same quality? That would cost you $200, right? That's a $130 saving, or 13.000 pennies. Would you think 13.000 pennies are a lot of pennies?

I am not quite following your thinking here. The original cost of the Pro5 the owner was selling cost him $100US (?), and he was asking $70. It is not new, nor is it being sold under the same model # or condition of another new sander. When I calculate savings, I look at how much it would have cost me when buying the item new (in 2016) vs how much I would be actually paying now for it. Why would I use a $200 figure, presumably the cost for a different sander under a DIFFERENT model #, when the seller did not pay that amount for his sander in the first place?

Remember this: the same item manufactured by the same source sold by different vendors under different brands could carry significantly different prices (values?) regardless the fact that they may be selling the SAME item. Why would one pick the higher or the highest quote available instead of the actual cost to do any financial analysis?

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2019, 10:04 AM »
If the owner of the sander had some pride in his tools and really wanted to sell it for the highest price they would have cleaned it up and detailed it. If it was mine to sell it would look virtually new and would have a price of $160. It would have a new pad and a selection of paper with it. I have never sold Festool for less than 75% and vast majority at 80% of current new price.


Same experience here about resale prices when selling my Festool machines; in fact similar experience with even some of the non-Festool stuff. I may not go to the length of replacing consumable parts before I sell a used machine, but I would fix whatever I can to make it look good, including removing rust surface or spots where necessary, or print out the manuals if lost. Believe it or not, due to a factory upgrade as well as Festool's annual price increases, when I sold my CT26 (after 2 years), I even made a profit!

One more thing I do: When I list, I always include a link to the same product from a current supplier, so potential buyers can compare conditions, prices (to my advantage, because prices go up in time; those who do their homework, of course, would try to find out the historical prices), study the full descriptions, etc.

The seller of the Pro5 might have no time or consider it unimportant to clean up his sander/systainer before he listed it, or simply he does not have the re-sale skills. We can learn a lot by studying how car dealerships (pre-owned vehicles dept.), or well-managed pawn shops or second-hand stores handle their possessions and present them.
 
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 11:01 AM by ChuckM »

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2019, 10:19 AM »
When I buy used, I buy from the recon sale. I just bought my Domino XL and saved about $400. I got it and it was in new condition.

I did buy a HL850 planer quite a few years ago but got a smokeing deal same with my CT22 ($195) about 5-6 years ago. Bought it to use with my Kapex.  It looks beat up but after trying it, it can put a watermelon through a garden hose. I like it better than my CT 26. I take it on the road with me to.

It'll be going with me back to Oregon next month when I go visit my good friend and do a little job for him.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2019, 10:29 AM »

Besides that, I really do not get the idea that you don't like a tool just because somebody else handled it before.

Whenever I drop by my local Lee Valley store, I take time to visit its Clearance Corner where customers' returns (that cannot be restocked) or samples are discounted and sold, usually at 20% to 30% (40% or more if opened/used such as stain (90% or more left), or with significant cosmetic blemishes) from their current prices.  I don't mind second-hand tools, but the prices must be good, and they are good there. Anyone who has had experience with Lee Valley's CyberMonday sale knows their discounts for "blemishes" are overly favorable to the customers. I am not a gardener, but many gardeners seem to change their minds about what they want after they assemble their purchases...which are discounted in the Clearance (cost more for the store to un-assemble and repack them?).

Last week, I saw a couple of these (20% discount) in the Clearance like new, with no visible marks on the
cutting edges: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=71973&cat=71969. But what I really want is this: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=71974&cat=71969

The image here shows a NEW, never used premier brush (Made in France) I picked up (35% off?) recently. The only blemish - a small hole on one side of the handle.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 10:41 AM by ChuckM »

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6122
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2019, 01:32 PM »
Consider this: If I sold one of my Pro5s brand new, unused, say, at the same original price I paid after owning it for just 1 day, should I consider the sale a breakeven, a loss, or a gain? According to your reasoning, I should celebrate it for a big profit, right? In reality, it wasn't.

Errr ... no? My reasoning would be that if you got the same amount of money back that would be breakeven ... and totally pointless. Nobody buys anything just to sell it for the same amount the next day. Odd consideration. [scratch chin]


When I calculate savings, I look at how much it would have cost me when buying the item new (in 2016) vs how much I would be actually paying now for it. Why would I use a $200 figure, presumably the cost for a different sander under a DIFFERENT model #, when the seller did not pay that amount for his sander in the first place?

You're not a time traveller, .... at least that's what I assume. So you can't go back to 2016 and buy it for the price the original owner paid. What does it even matter what the original owner paid? If you want this sander, right now, 2019, this functionality, then you'll have to pay $200 for it new in the store, there is no way around it.

So that new price of $200 is the only figure that matters in any cost savings calculation, period.

Talk about different model numbers all you want, fact is the PRO 5 is the exact same sander as what is now called the ETS 125 REQ.
 

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1238
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2019, 03:33 PM »
With due respect, all I can say is my first degree was a major in Accounting, and accounting has been part of or related to my work (40% to 60% at various times) for the last 21 years...though I am retiring soon from such work. We should agree that you and I are not going to see eye to eye on how the discount % should be figured out in this Pro5 offer, and I will leave it at that.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 04:08 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 788
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2019, 05:01 AM »
I think no matter how good or bad a used tool looks, there's always a risk/gamble, especially if there's no warranty left. I have repaired many of my own tools, that were bought new, and the warranty has run out. This is mainly because my stuff is looked after as much as a professional working environment will allow. So our tools usually last a long time, and with wear and tear, things will need maintaining or replacing at some stage, especially with age.
As much as I am capable of doing the repairs, I wouldn't buy tools that are in need of repair, even cheaply, unless it was a rare tool with a relatively easy repair.

My time is better spent working at my trade as opposed to fixing tools. That's not to say I'd never consider buying used, or ex demo or refurbished tools. It has to be the right tool, at the right price after taking it's age, amount of use and age into consideration.

I know people who have bought some lovely used tools at very low prices. Sometimes tools that although old and out of warranty, have been sitting around unused and still in an almost new like condition, for sensible money. These would be more my cup of tea, the price has to be right though, otherwise I buy new.

It doesn't matter how well made Festool stuff is, without knowing it's history potential problems and cost layout can be hidden, even brand new Festool fails sometimes. Take a Kapex 120 for example, the older model, If I were offered a used one, personally I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, unless it was incredibly cheap, even then I'd be cautious.

I agree with the comment about the seller of the sander the OP is asking about, there has been no effort to tidy up the tool for sale? you could say the seller is being transparent, and saying "what you see is what you get" on the other hand, you could look at it and say, this guy doesn't care about his tools, it's been put away dirty, and almost certainly is dusty inside, and has the potential to fail?

When I replace tools, if the old tools that have been upgraded are not seeing use, they go into our storage unit, there's a lot of tools in there, sometimes kept for parts etc. Often I might give certain tools to a friend or colleague to help them out, if their tools have failed or been stolen etc. People often ask me what old tools I have sitting in there, as I'm known to own a lot of tools.

Every so often I might sell some of the more usable stuff off, if so it's cleaned up, and presented nicely and nearly always with a copy of the original receipt.
I get, what I think is good money for the tools, and they sell quickly but, they are priced according to their age and use, and what I consider their future usable life span to be.
I have even given some personal warranty with tools I've sold, as I'm confident they'll last. I've never sold anything near to half price though unless it was very new, and bought in error, even then half price would be my highest price.
I've also thrown some tools away that have sat a long time, out of date cordless drills etc, where the batteries have died, the tool wouldn't fetch much money in a sale. So if they're not wanted by anybody, or no use for spares, they get thrown away.
Just a few weeks ago, I threw out two real old Makita cordless drills, A Metabo cordless drill (POS) an old planer, and some old grinders.

So although I do sell and give away used tools, I seldom buy them. A little while ago I missed out on a used Mafell Erika 85e, this saw had only seen about an hours use and was up for £1000. By time I was told about it, and tracked down the seller, he'd sold it the day before.
He bought the saw, and hadn't put his tax away, the tax man sent him a demand, and he was selling anything he could to pay the bill.
I would have bought that saw in a heartbeat, and for more money, because to me, it was an exception. A great used tool, albeit minimum use, at a shockingly low price.
I am still choked thinking about it.

So, I think you have to judge each potential purchase on it's merits, whether buying brand new, refurbished, ex demo, or used. If the deal is right, go for it, if not, walk away.
After reading this thread, and taking into account discounts etc, and the photo of the sander. I wouldn't buy it, that's me though  ;)

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 568
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2019, 05:34 AM »
This thread has gone on far longer than I imagined it could.  I assumed there would be a couple of replies saying that it's a great price if you want that sander....

Obviously you compare the price to the current price of that tool!?

And I've had a 2nd hand Trion for over 7 years, and a 2nd hand RO125 for about 5 years and both looked a bit beaten when I bought them. Both have been 100% fine for me, weekly use, had to change the brushes on the RO last year. . .

I'd be surprised if that sander is still available at that price all these days later. Someone will have snapped it up :)
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2019, 10:30 AM »
Yes this topic went way out of hand. Long story short the advertisement for the sander had been up for over a week when I found it. I tried to go get it but it had been sold before I got to get it. Oh well. Glad this gave people a chance to debate their used tool buying methods I guess 🤷🏽‍♂️.

I’m a pretty good used tool buyer and seller just new to the festool market. I bought a barely used trion last year for $150 and I’ve loved it so I’ve been eyeing used festool since. But it’s a tough market.

Anyway thanks for all the advice you can stop arguing now I couldn’t get the $70 pro 5.

If anyone has one for sale let me know 😉

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6475
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2019, 10:54 AM »
I tried to go get it but it had been sold before I got to get it.

Anyway thanks for all the advice you can stop arguing now I couldn’t get the $70 pro 5.


Well that pretty much answers the original query of "Is the Pro5 worth $70?" 

It was worth $70 to at least 2 people...the person that recently purchased it and Carlson Carpentry that tried to purchase it.  [big grin] [big grin]

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6122
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2019, 11:37 AM »
It was worth $70 to at least 2 people...the person that recently purchased it and Carlson Carpentry that tried to purchase it.  [big grin] [big grin]

Make that at least 3 people...  [big grin]  [big grin]

Offline Brian Livingstone

  • Posts: 184
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2019, 11:47 AM »

II received my ETS 125 REQ as a result of my name being drawn at a Festool Road Show event.

I really like it !

Kapex, TS75, MFT, OF1010, OF2200, DTS400 REQ, Parallel guide rails, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900, 3000 guide rail, Domino 500, CT36, CT Midi, , RS2E, RO150, Boom Arm, Crown stops, 6 drawer Sortainer, Carvex, Syslite II, Festool safety glasses must start to wear.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 456
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2019, 12:14 PM »
depends, If I remember correctly new the Pro5 sold as a special $100 w/ systainer and $50 rebate.

So if thats the case, I wouldnt think its that good a deal.

Yeah, but you can't get it at that price anymore.

Same with housing... everything build 2 years ago now sells for +25%...

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1238
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2019, 12:33 PM »

Snip.
Yeah, but you can't get it at that price anymore.


Some people complain about Festool's annual price increases...I like it, as when you resell your Festool machines, you can get a good resale price. I mentioned about making a profit on a CT26; a similar story when I sold my TS75 last year, to a contractor who wasn't happy with his TS55 after he started using more and more hardwood (the reason he said he was buying a TS75).

I might not be as lucky if I sold my Kapex given its reputation issue, but if and when I list it for sale, I would sure present it as nice as it can be to extract the maximum return. In any case, my experience with Festool has been that it can be cheaper to own new and sell it than rent (if it were available).

I also have a SawStop which too has started the practice of increasing its prices. But with the introduction of the Felder's PCS, there should be a price taming effect somewhere. [tongue]
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 02:08 PM by ChuckM »