Author Topic: Is pro5 worth $70?  (Read 6828 times)

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Offline Coen

  • Posts: 456
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2019, 02:55 PM »
Everyone increases prices at some point, at least when pricing goes in fake money ($, €, GPB, Yen, etc.)

Increasing prices are only useful if you sell all and then don't use the receipt to buy more of the same.

Same goes for housing;

A house of 200K that goes up 30% to 260K does nothing for it's owner; if he wants to upgrade... the bigger house he was looking at increased from 300K to 390K; meaning the gap increased from 100K to 130K...

Bigtime increase in housing prices is only useful when your (grand)parents just died and you can sell their house...

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Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 20
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2019, 05:38 AM »
The way I see it, the more people out there that refuse to buy used tools, or get worked up about percentages of what the original owner paid (what if they got it for free? Does that mean it has no resale value now?), or make assumptions about the condition of a tool based on some dirt, the more chance I have of buying good used tools at decent prices. Reduced demand = lower prices.

A clean tool was a dirty tool right up until the seller cleaned it. I love seeing grubby tools advertised because I know the seller will struggle to shift them and will accept a lower price than an identical tool that got a good scrub before being listed. The mechanical condition is all that interests me - My £50 ETS 150 was caked in paint dust and looked like junk, but after a relaxing hour stripping and scrubbing every component (and a new pad, admittedly), it looked almost new and has been 100% reliable ever since.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1238
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2019, 10:56 AM »
(what if they got it for free? Does that mean it has no resale value now?)

Let's assume the owner was a contractor or did woodworking for a living and wanted to record a free or donated machine on his or her books, the acceptable ways of doing it include:

a) Use a fair market value (the price the asset can sell for on the open market, given its age, conditions, etc.). Usually, the price of the same machine, if available, is used as a guide. An example: a small business owner needed to record an old car given to him free for his business (and he is planning to claim tax deductions on it). In Canada, one can refer to the Black Book, or screen the sales ads on newspapers, or the offerings from car dealerships that sell second-hand vehicles.

b) Use a professional appraiser. The appraisal expenses incurred are usually tax-deductible in Canada.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 11:13 AM by ChuckM »

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 20
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2019, 12:18 PM »
I'm not talking about how a contractor records things on his books. This isn't a question of accounting.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1238
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2019, 12:37 PM »
I know you are not asking an accounting question (that's why my comment opens with an assumption to make what follows relevant), but the same principle applies to figuring out the resale value of an item.

Here is an example how resale value can be arrived at using the concept of fair market price, which use, by the way, is not restricted to accountants:

https://www.sapling.com/6673636/calculate-resale-value

Of course, anyone can use any method to work out their asking price. Any method can be right; the ultimate test is if a sales goes through at the asking/desired price. After doing all my homework, I like to start with a slightly higher price when I resell my tools, knowing that some potential buyers would counteroffer me.... Unless the seller states in the ad that his or her offer being firm, often there is no harm counteroffering.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 12:52 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 788
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2019, 01:27 PM »
The way I see it, the more people out there that refuse to buy used tools, or get worked up about percentages of what the original owner paid (what if they got it for free? Does that mean it has no resale value now?), or make assumptions about the condition of a tool based on some dirt, the more chance I have of buying good used tools at decent prices. Reduced demand = lower prices.

A clean tool was a dirty tool right up until the seller cleaned it. I love seeing grubby tools advertised because I know the seller will struggle to shift them and will accept a lower price than an identical tool that got a good scrub before being listed. The mechanical condition is all that interests me - My £50 ETS 150 was caked in paint dust and looked like junk, but after a relaxing hour stripping and scrubbing every component (and a new pad, admittedly), it looked almost new and has been 100% reliable ever since.

You still have to take into account, that dust and moisture are bad news for power tools, especially when it gets inside. Some of my tools have notes that say, filters and machine internals need to be cleared of any dust or moisture buildup, as it can lessen the life of the tool.
If mine get real dusty, I put a mask on, and blow out the internals and filters with an airline, many don't though.

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 20
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2019, 09:46 AM »
I know you are not asking an accounting question (that's why my comment opens with an assumption to make what follows relevant), but the same principle applies to figuring out the resale value of an item.
I'm not even talking about how someone decides how much to ask for an item. This whole thread is about what something is worth to a potential buyer.

At the end of the day, the Pro5 is essentially the same as the ETS 125 and will sell for a similar price on the 2nd hand market. There will, of course, be people who will pay more because it's 'rare' or 'collectable', and there will be people who will refuse to pay anywhere near ETS 125 prices because they insist on factoring in the original purchase price. But the majority will sensibly see it as a used sander that would cost them $200 to buy new and base their used price on that.

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 20
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2019, 10:06 AM »
You still have to take into account, that dust and moisture are bad news for power tools, especially when it gets inside. Some of my tools have notes that say, filters and machine internals need to be cleared of any dust or moisture buildup, as it can lessen the life of the tool.
If mine get real dusty, I put a mask on, and blow out the internals and filters with an airline, many don't though.
Correct, which is why I said it's the mechanical condition that interests me. The cosmetic condition tells me very little. Some people like to make blanket assumptions based on how dirty a tool is, but that works in my favour as a buyer. Of course, when I sell a tool I always clean it inside and out to make it look as immaculate as possible, because that gets me the best price. When a seller doesn't do the same, their loss can be my gain.

The point is, that you don't know if the tool is clean because it's always kept that way, or because the seller has just spruced it up for sale (like I do - my tools are never as clean as the day they get their glamour shots for eBay). Equally, you don't know if a dirty tool has never been cleaned, or it just hasn't been cleaned recently because the seller lost interest after they bought its replacement. The upshot is, making 'rules' about buying superficially dirty or clean tools is foolish because you might still buy a lemon and you might also miss out on a hidden gem.

Offline jeffm13

  • Posts: 24
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2019, 01:45 AM »
I'll chime. I'm not an accountant, nor do I play one on TV.   But accountant or not, price has nothing to do with cost--new or used.  Price is what the market will bear.  Period.  If it wasn't, Festool would probably be out of business.

Profitability, however, is related to cost, whether you're the original manufacturer selling through retail channels, or a previous buyer selling used.  You can do your own analysis on the return you'll get from your purchase.  Cost of course plays a part, but so does productivity. As does resale value. As does opportunity cost of buying a cheaper tool that breaks down sooner.  But the bottom line is that if the tool doesn't pass the sniff test in terms of return, pass it up.  Somebody else will probably thank you for that decision. Or maybe you'll laugh at them when it dies in six months.  That's the risk you take when buying used.
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Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1238
Re: Is pro5 worth $70?
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2019, 02:16 AM »
"...price has nothing to do with cost..." but "profitability is...related to cost."

Wow!  [eek]